System review & please recommend highs

[Automaton]

My system is installed after having to wait 1.5 months for Eclipse to produce more of the amps I wanted. Here is what I got:

Head Unit = Alpine CDA-9811

Front components = Oz Matrix 180CS (6.5")
Powered by = Eclipse 33250 (130 watts per channel)

Sub = Image Dynamics IDQ12 in 0.9 cubic foot box
Powered by = Eclipse PA4212 (400 watts bridged mono)

Also had my front doors deadened


The head unit is nice and has a lot of features for the price. It plays MP3, WMA, has time correction (delay), 4 levels of frequency selectable bass EQ, 1 level of frequency selectable treble EQ, subwoofer volume control, removable face with tilt, built in adjustable crossovers (HP and LP), and other stuff that I have not even used yet.

The IDQ12 is very nice and clean sounding. It can hit very low, and stays nice and clean even at max volume levels.

The Oz components are a little disapointing, and this is where I hope someone can help me out! The shop highly recommended these speakers for their midbass, and supposedly listenable highs. The stereo image is better than stock, but the highs are way over the top and too harsh for me. They are silk/cotton tweeters so I didn't expect them to be so harsh! I took it back to the shop and they set the tweeter down to -6dB. It sounds better, but it is still too harsh. I can't turn the volume up high to listen to my beautiful sub because I can't stand the highs. I EQ'ed 10KHz down and it helps a little, but then the songs sound lifeless. These things cost me $325 so I am not just going to "live with it." I want to take them back and exchange them for something else if I can.

What is the BEST 6.5" component set? I need something with ZERO harshness at high volume levels. Something that also has good midbass, and good stereo imaging. Any suggestions?

[SQ GT-S]

JL XR's or MB Quart Q or QSD's are some suggestions.

Any pics of the install?

Curt

[Immortal]

The new Boston Z components are good / MB Quartz and Focal Utopia makes 3 good sets of highs.

[J3adSeed]

i really don't like any mb quarts. i know some people recommend their super expensive **** but it all sounds weak to me. lots of harsh highs and weakass midbass.

this is one thing i really like about the jl xr's, when doing a blind test comparing these with every mb quart, and boston, i liked these about the most. but these and boston were REALLY close. i think they just have a nicer tweeter, and both boston and jl have great mids. although i was listing to boston pro's, not the new ones.

i also love image dynamics and focals.

[Automaton]

How much does a set of JL XR's usually go for from an authorized shop?

[dexthageek]

Check this website, and do a search for dealers local to you.

http://jlaudio.com/dealerfind.cfm

[SQ GT-S]

Don't buy JL online unless they are an authorized dealer. JL puts a lot of money into stopping unauthorized dealers. If the dealer isn't an authorized one, chance are they scratched the serial numbers off. If the serials are gone, so is your warranty through JL.

Curt

[dexthageek]

Originally posted by SQ GT-S

Don't buy JL online unless they are an authorized dealer.


:werd:

[Automaton]

What do you guys think of the Alpine SPX-177 components? That is what the shop is recommending as a replacement for the Oz's.

[SQ GT-S]

Alpine components? :ugh: I have heard bad things about them. They aren't worth the money IMO.

Curt

[Automaton]

I don't know man. The guy assured me that these would have a much smoother tweeter and just as good midbass as the Oz components. What comments have you heard about the Alpines? Was it about the SPX series specificaly? The guy at the shop told me that the Boston's would be even harsher than the Oz. He said the JL XR's would be better than the Oz, but that these Alpine's would have the smoothest tweeter of the three, and not give up any midbass.

At this point, I need a VERY smooth tweeter. I listen to music with lots of string sounds, and loud vocals, and I like to listen at loud volume levels.

[SQ GT-S]

Well, I would recommend that you don't listen to me and don't listen to the guy trying to sell you speakers (and make commision). Go in there with one of your favorite CD's and take a listen to all the speakers you are thinking about. Each person has different tastes. Some people think that hard domes are harsh, but I think my hard domes are smooth and extremely accurate. We all have our own personal tastes, and with that, only take our responses as suggestions.

Curt

[dexthageek]

Originally posted by SQ GT-S
Well, I would recommend that you don't listen to me and don't listen to the guy trying to sell you speakers (and make commision). Go in there with one of your favorite CD's and take a listen to all the speakers you are thinking about. Each person has different tastes. Some people think that hard domes are harsh, but I think my hard domes are smooth and extremely accurate. We all have our own personal tastes, and with that, only take our responses as suggestions.

Curt

:werd: Could not agree with you more

[Automaton]

This is true. However, each shop has a pretty limited selection of speakers to actually listen to. They can order whatever I want, but don't have everything available to listen to. I guess I will go to a few other shops just for listening purposes. I've read good things about A/D/S components, and want to give them a listen as well.

[RATIFIED]

Don't count out CDT and the true Morel lines from overseas.

[RATIFIED]

Also, stay way from the Focals if you dont like harsh highs. They tend to be very harsh if not eq'ed right.

[SQ GT-S]

Originally posted by RATIFIED
Also, stay way from the Focals if you dont like harsh highs. They tend to be very harsh if not eq'ed right.

Ah, there's the key. "If they are not EQ'd right." :chuckles:

And yeah, I think the Morel tweets are awesome. And if you want some badass Focals, get the Audiom TLR's. :drool:

Curt

[RATIFIED]

The Audiom line is the best sounding out there!!!! I wanted those SOOOO bad!!! The spirit was willing but the wifey with the wallet wasn't!!! :p

[Automaton]

I listened to a bunch of speakers today.

1) MBQuart Reference series 6.5" components - not harsh in the highs, but kinda lifeless, and absolutely NO bass.

2) MB Quart Premium series 6.5" components - only slightly harsh in the highs. Very clear and full sounding compared to the Reference series. Really created a wide sound stage. NO bass whatsoever.

3) Some kind of Pioneer 6.5" component speaker (with a yellow midbass driver). Similar sounding to the Reference series MB Quarts, but had more bass.

4) JL XR 6.5" components - A little bit harsher than the MB Quart Premium series. Also didn't create as wide open of a sound stage. Sounded better than the MB Quart reference series though. Had more bass than the Quarts.

5) Also listened to some Eclipse 6.5" components. They sounded very similar to the JL XR's, but for only half the price. They were not QUITE as good, but pretty close, and good if you only have $175 to spend.

6) Listened to some Bostons. Not sure which ones. The highs made me want to cut my ears out of my head. Very harsh.

7) Listened to the 5" version of the Alpine components. Better bass then the MB Quarts. Not as wide of a sound stage, and nothing special about the highs.

All of the speakers I listened to today had disapointing midbass. The Oz 6.5" REALLY kick azz in the midbass. They slaughter all of the above-mentioned speakers. They go down well below 80Hz with NO problem, and NO distortion, so I am going to be keeping the Oz midbass drivers, and cross them over with the sub at 80Hz.

I am thinking of just swapping out the tweeter. At this point, I will probably swap it for the tweeter from the MB Quart Premium component set. I didn't get a chance to listen to the MB Quart Q series yet (top of their line, 1 step up from the premium series). I will try to give them a listen if I can. Does anyone know how the Q series highs compare to the Premium series?

I'm not sure who's crossover I should use though. MB Quart's or Oz's? MB Quart Premium series cross over at 2500Hz. The Oz are crossed over at 3300Hz. That's about all I know.

It is really frustrating because it is impossible to do an A B comparison of speakers. I can't find any shops that carry ALL the speakers that I want to compare.

[dexthageek]

Dont forget about Polk most people dont ever consider Polk for car audio, their Home Theater Equipment is incredible my 7channel system at home is all polk.

I am seriously considering a set of Polk Components for my celica, they offer decent midbass and the highs are not bad when the EQ is setup properly

[Automaton]

Bah! I give up! After listening to a dozen "high end" component speaker systems, I think that car audio tweeters are just not "the best" by definition. So I will probably add some sort of parametric equalizer to my system soon. The Oz really do sound nice except for some frequencies just below 10KHz. I have the 10KHz on my head unit turned down to -3 (whatever that means), but I can tell that the offensive frequencies are a little lower than that.

I guess the moral of this story for me is to go with what gives you a good stereo image, and you will most likely have to very specifically EQ the highs. If you go with a more dull sounding tweeter to begin with, the stereo imaging and overall clarity is probably going to suck. It is easier to EQ DOWN a pretty good set of components, than it is to try to ADD a bunch of missing frequencies to a less lively set of components. Also, it is probably VERY hard to make a speaker's sound stage/stereo imaging bigger and wider and fuller... so go with what gives you a good stereo image as well, and EQ if needed.

[SQ GT-S]

Originally posted by Automaton
It is easier to EQ DOWN a pretty good set of components, than it is to try to ADD a bunch of missing frequencies to a less lively set of components.

:werd:

Originally posted by Automaton
Also, it is probably VERY hard to make a speaker's sound stage/stereo imaging bigger and wider and fuller... so go with what gives you a good stereo image as well, and EQ if needed.

It's actually not hard to change imaging, depth, width, etc. if you are putting the speakers in the kicks. If you just bolt them to the doors, you get what you get.

Curt

[Automaton]

So what what companies/models of EQ should I look at? I know that some head units offer parametric EQ where you can select frequency, boost/attenuation, and width. I think the next model or 2 up Alpine from what I have does this. But I don't know how good their EQ is, seeing how EQ is probably not where they spent the most when building a headunit. I record music on my computer, and I have heard what a bad sounding EQ can do to your sound. It is not pretty.

[SQ GT-S]

Well, in the car audio world, I have never heard of a bad sounding EQ. Home and Pro audio, yes. But not car audio.

With that in mind, all it comes down to is how many bands do you want, do you want it per octave or parametric, what kind of voltage you are running, and do you want digital or analog or a mix.

I have a dual 30-band digital EQ with 30 more bands combined. It's 1/3 octave. Another car I'm working on also has a 30-band 1/3 octave EQ but both sides are not independent. And in the other car I'm doing, it has 7-band parametric left and right, digital, time alignment, etc, etc.

Basically what I'm saying is, these are all totally different EQ's ranging in price from $100 to $1000, all sounding the same, and all used in competition.

So, how many bands do you want/need?

Curt

[Automaton]

I probably don't need too many bands. A single stereo channel with 7 bands parametric EQ would be pleanty. But I want infinite adjustability for each parameter on all the bands. I don't know where I would put it though. The trunk would be best, but then it would have to come with a remote control, and probably would be digital.

[Automaton]

Anyone know anything about the Morel Supremo tweeters?

http://www.caraudiomag.com/testreports/0210cae_morel/

[SQ GT-S]

:drool: Just too big for my A-pillars.

Curt

[RATIFIED]

And I thought my Focals were big!!!! If they have Morel on them, they are good!!!!!!!