HONDA COMPANY VS TOYOTA COMPANY???***(Whos coming out on Top)

[Nitrous00]

I believe ...it is TOyoTa....Even though... Honda always when the safest Car reports

[WillyK]

I'd rather have an Integra Type R, NSX, or S2000 than anything that Toyota makes right now.

[F35-JSF]

Neither is going anywhere. Toyota and Honda have some serious loyalist on its side...... Its like GM and Ford.

[kidweba]

what about the mr2 - supra - or lexus?

[WillyK]

Originally posted by kidweba
what about the mr2 - supra - or lexus?

As I said, over anything made right now. Supras aren't made anymore, the current MR2 isn't that great and the only Lexus I like is the IS300.

[Da Kine Guy]

Are we trying to start a flame war here?

:ban:

[Toy Yoda]

When it comes to mainstream motorsports, Honda takes it...
They have motorcycles, a better F1 record, and fine cars like that NSX, Acura R, Civic R, Accord R, Prelude R (*cough* jab at the ricers here) etc.
Of course, I haven't heard of any WRC Hondas, so Toyota does have it's own strengths (I believe Toyota does better in the JGTC too).

However, when it comes to money making, Toyota seems to be better...
Also, safety-wise, I think Toyota outdoes Honda (for quality, I think J.D. Power consistently ranks Toyota above Honda, and Lexus at #1).

I wish we got the MR-S here... It's a great platform that was under-engined... Toyota gave it just enough power to outdo the Miata, and that was it (Toyota's conservative side at work again).

As for luxo-companies, Acura doesn't hold a candle to Lexus... You can't expect anyone to take your luxo-brand seriously when you only have one RWD (NSX), and no V8-equipped vehicles.

[Bobbeh]

When it comes to what matters, money, Toyota will always 0wn Honda.

[gts24]

Originally posted by Nitrous00
I believe ...it is TOyoTa....Even though... Honda always when the safest Car reports


Every post I've seen you make is ............ nevermind.

[edgarchan]

Originally posted by Da Kine Guy
Are we trying to start a flame war here?

:ban:

I totally agree. Toyota is famous of its manufacturing system and they have used nearly 30yrs to improve it. Other companies are still catching up with that.
In terms of luxury brand, Lexus is better than Acura. If can instantly tell tell the difference when you drive a Lexus.
Since Toyota is so good in earning profit, they didn't come up with 2zz until recent years to directly compete with Integra. It is because 2zz is fully automatic production engine without hand-intensive treatment like some special Hondas required. 2zz also pump out as many hp per liter as RSX Type-S. Moreover, 2zz has VTTL-i in both intake and exhaust, but Type S only have i-vtec in instake side and normal vtec in exhaust side. 2zz is even more sophisticated than K20C.
MR2 is already better than Miata in terms of performance. The only problem is has is the appearance, high price and lacking of trunk space.
I think both Toyota and Honda are very decent and comparable. If you say either Toyota is WAY BETTER than HONDA or HONDA is WAY BETTER than Toyota, then statement is very biased

[Stress]

doesnt matter to me. i'll drive a toyota, honda, or nissan over ANY other auto maker

[baNanA_ryCe]

who really cares....

OH who will win in a thumb wrestling contest....a squirrel or a beaver?

[The Game]

Originally posted by Bobbeh
When it comes to what matters, money, Toyota will always 0wn Honda. :werd:

[F35-JSF]

:stupid: except the nsx.

[LaW]

I'd actually rather have a honda/acura than a toyota/lexus..... but heh thats me

[Fourgig]

:whogives:

I'd drive a damned Yugo if it looked cool, handled well and had a decent engine.

[R K e 1 C A]

:werd:


If that certain auto maker had a reputation for reliability, quality, safety, etc. etc. then I would pick what was available...But I am partial towards Toyota

[2002GT_Celica]

I have both a Honda and a Toyota...they're about the same. Both are reliable, both offer good performance for what you pay for them and as far as looks, well that's all a bit subjective now isn't it?

Face it, no maker is really inferior to the other, both make quality cars, it just comes down to personal preference.

[Tung]

I like to drive anything but korean car...

[Dealer Xing]

The 2ZZ is more like a Paper tiger. You don't see this engine winning any races in stock or mildly modified form in Japanese racing series. It doesn't matter if the 2ZZ pumps out 500hp at a single RPM since it doesn't have a good powerband, or a transmission with the right gear ratios to support it.

Originally posted by edgarchan


I totally agree. Toyota is famous of its manufacturing system and they have used nearly 30yrs to improve it. Other companies are still catching up with that.
In terms of luxury brand, Lexus is better than Acura. If can instantly tell tell the difference when you drive a Lexus.
Since Toyota is so good in earning profit, they didn't come up with 2zz until recent years to directly compete with Integra. It is because 2zz is fully automatic production engine without hand-intensive treatment like some special Hondas required. 2zz also pump out as many hp per liter as RSX Type-S. Moreover, 2zz has VTTL-i in both intake and exhaust, but Type S only have i-vtec in instake side and normal vtec in exhaust side. 2zz is even more sophisticated than K20C.
MR2 is already better than Miata in terms of performance. The only problem is has is the appearance, high price and lacking of trunk space.
I think both Toyota and Honda are very decent and comparable. If you say either Toyota is WAY BETTER than HONDA or HONDA is WAY BETTER than Toyota, then statement is very biased

[Da Kine Guy]

Hahahahaha!!! Dude, 2ZZ's got lift on both cams but VVTi only on the intake side. It's iVTEC that has VVTI and lift on the intake and exhaust side. :rofl:

[Deaks2]

Originally posted by Da Kine Guy
Hahahahaha!!! Dude, 2ZZ's got lift on both cams but VVTi only on the intake side. It's iVTEC that has VVTI and lift on the intake and exhaust side. :rofl:

Toyota has the 3S-GE 4th Gen Dual-VVTi with variable valve timing on both the exhaust and intake cams.

[TRD Liquid Silver]

all i know from the indy racing community corporate honda's ass is in flames. having not won the INDY 500 and having one car in the top ten while toyota had 9 in the top 10 and the winner.

but when we talk about money nothing even comes close to toyota. forbes magazine had an article about toyota a few years ago about how they could buy every single automaker out there and still have 30 billion dollars left over. also for 2002 they missed being the the #2 automaker in america by a few thousand.

[Da Kine Guy]

Originally posted by Deaks2


Toyota has the 3S-GE 4th Gen Dual-VVTi with variable valve timing on both the exhaust and intake cams.

Yeah I know that, the dual VVTi BEAMS deal over in Japan. Edgar said 2ZZ though.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by Toy Yoda
When it comes to mainstream motorsports, Honda takes it...
They have motorcycles, a better F1 record, and fine cars like that NSX, Acura R, Civic R, Accord R, Prelude R (*cough* jab at the ricers here) etc.
Of course, I haven't heard of any WRC Hondas, so Toyota does have it's own strengths (I believe Toyota does better in the JGTC too).


Forgetting about bikes because Toyota doesn't make any Honda consistently gets its ass kicked by Toyota in almost every motorsports arena these days. They got owned by Toyota in CART last year, they are getting owned by Toyota in IRL this year, they get owned by Toyota in JGTC, they have no rally record worth a damn, and the only reason they are doing better in F1 is because this is Toyota's first season. Within 2 years Toyota will be kickign their ass in F1 as well. Of course Toyota will also be running in the Nascar Craftsman Truck series as well as Goody's dash by then as well. And lets not forget their performance n WIRC, SCORE, Stadium truck serieses, etc. So how you can say that Honda is better at mainstream motorsports is beyond me. Plus even at the huge prices they charge for it the NSX can't hope to match the performance potential of the Supra TT.

Honda does one thing very well and thats make nice NA sports compact cars and one VERY nice MR sports car. They are better at FWD than Toyota by the teensiest margin, and I tend to prefer the feel of the way their trannys shift, but Toyota builds some MUCH nicer RWD and AWD cars. And don't even get me started on trucks...

Each company has its strengths and weaknesses but the facts of the matter are that Toyota is a bigger manufacturer, they have a way better motorsports record overall, and they sell more and make more than Honda. You have to really dig hard to find a segment in which Honda out performs Toyota.

[HilfigerCelica]

What Griffin said.

Also Toyota has trucks, SUVs and a very respected luxury division. Honda doesn't make trucks which we all know are big sellers these days so they're losing a ton of potential sales there. Toyota has one of the most complete line of SUVs out there. With 5 SUVs for various budgets and needs, Honda doesn't hold a candle in amt. of SUVs sales to Toyota. Toyota has already established themselves as making tough, reliable trucks which Honda hasn't done yet. For hardcore enthusiast, you won't consider a CRV or Pilot if you wanna go off-roading. Lexus has real luxury cars that can compete with the likes of Mercedes, BMW, and Infiniti. You can't even begin to compare a 210 hp FWD RL to a 302 hp RWD S-class. Like Toy yoda said, there's only one RWD vehicle in the Acura lineup and it's the overpriced NSX.

[Acilec]

With regard to Formula 1. Honda has been slacking and does not have their own team, they are only engine suppliers for BAR. They work with the team but are not fully owning and operating the team and putting in the money for R&D. Toyota on the other hand owns and operates the team and has fully dedicated themselves to F1. Once they figure out how to get the max from their chassis and engine and get some good drivers under their belt, they will be the team to watch. In fact, Ralf Schumacher has now been linked with a drive there. Toyota will be challenging for the title in less than 3 years.

[Toy Yoda]

Griffin, very good points...
I can't believe I overlooked IRL, CART and the stock car stuff (Nascar, etc)

[ringthree]

Originally posted by Toy Yoda
When it comes to mainstream motorsports, Honda takes it...
They have motorcycles, a better F1 record, and fine cars like that NSX, Acura R, Civic R, Accord R, Prelude R (*cough* jab at the ricers here) etc.
Of course, I haven't heard of any WRC Hondas, so Toyota does have it's own strengths (I believe Toyota does better in the JGTC too).

However, when it comes to money making, Toyota seems to be better...
Also, safety-wise, I think Toyota outdoes Honda (for quality, I think J.D. Power consistently ranks Toyota above Honda, and Lexus at #1).

I wish we got the MR-S here... It's a great platform that was under-engined... Toyota gave it just enough power to outdo the Miata, and that was it (Toyota's conservative side at work again).

As for luxo-companies, Acura doesn't hold a candle to Lexus... You can't expect anyone to take your luxo-brand seriously when you only have one RWD (NSX), and no V8-equipped vehicles.

I would like to state that Honda's current record in F1 is poor at best. It has been several years since they have had anything close to a winner.

[Toy Yoda]

Unfortunately, they've had more success than Toyota (thus far)...
Of course, we've already reached consensus that Toyota's team has much untapped potential, and that with a few years of refinement, they will be very strong contenders.

[Acilec]

I hope DaMatta will improve. Yeah, didn't Senna win with Honda? Don't forget the WRC titles that Toyota won with the celica and Carlos Sainz.

[The Game]

and Rod Millen

[TRD Liquid Silver]

Forgetting about bikes because Toyota doesn't make any

people forget that toyota owns more than 50% of yamaha who makes bikes. also, toyota will eventually win a F1 title why, cause in the land of F1 as long as you've got deep pockets you'll eventually win. more money for development, more money to pay top future drivers, and to run a typical F1 program you need at least 200+ million dollars a year. toyota is 2nd to ferrari in terms of overall budget and ferrari's budget is close to 1/2 a billion.

Yeah, didn't Senna win with Honda?

yes he did but there wasn't whole lot of strong engine manufactuers at that time. it was kind of like chevy and infiniti in the irl from 97-02. chevy had no real competition until this season where they're getting their ass kicked.

[Toy Yoda]

Originally posted by Acilec
I hope DaMatta will improve. Yeah, didn't Senna win with Honda? Don't forget the WRC titles that Toyota won with the celica and Carlos Sainz.

Don't forget about the Corolla WRC :drool:

[The Wok]

I believe that da Matta will improve because he hasn't fully learned the tracks, being that he's spent the last 5-6 years racing in the US (Indy Lights and CART). I don't think it's just a coincidence that he did pretty well at the Spanish GP, a place where he did most of his winter testing. As he learns the tracks (and we hope Toyota will put a more reliable package), I think he'll do fine.

[Acilec]

Originally posted by The Wok
I believe that da Matta will improve because he hasn't fully learned the tracks, being that he's spent the last 5-6 years racing in the US (Indy Lights and CART). I don't think it's just a coincidence that he did pretty well at the Spanish GP, a place where he did most of his winter testing. As he learns the tracks (and we hope Toyota will put a more reliable package), I think he'll do fine.

I agree with you, I just hope Toyota doesn't pull another sacking like they did with Salo and McNish. I mean those drivers did suck, but I hope they at least stick to Christiano, I see a lot of talent in him and he will be a contender when he starts learning the tracks. He's doing good for a rookie. Honda might decide to have their own team one day, I think they can do it.

[Griffin]

Oh lets not forget Pikes peak - Toyota holds the worlds record I believe and Honda - hell I' don't know if they've ever entered. Oh - also Toyota OWNED GT2 the last year they ran in it and they also are the dominant engine supplier on the NIHRA circuit. They were also the sole engine supplier for teh Formula Atlantic series for quiye a long time.

Oh yeah - and they made the boats that pulled the Wakeboarding competition at the gravity games for the first 3 years.

[Keyshawn]

Kinda pointless question. On a Toyota messageboard, what do you expect people to answer? Most here will obviously give the nod to Toyota, just like most peeps on Honda boards would pick Honda as the better company. I mean, if you go on a French messageboard and ask, " What's the better country: France or the US?", it ain't a surprise that they'll most likely say all kinds of stuff about why they're better than us (especially these days). Honda and Toyota both make high-quality cars. What one likes better is simply personal preference.

[ColdFuzion]

Toyota is defintely on top, cause I feel like I get mounted everytime I go into the dealership. I will take my chances with another car maker next time.

CF

[GTS-Racer]

Cant compare the 2 companies evenly because Toyota is so much bigger and has more money than Honda.

[Chui]

Toyota is the more secure corporation. It is reputedly sitting on $US 40 BILLION [enough to purchase GM and Ford at current stock prices, btw] and it is rumored to have just passed Ford as the #2 sales leader in the US.

As far as quality is concerned Toyota is the world leader according to JD Powers 3 month and 6 month in service criteria. Honda is a close second.

As far as philosophy is concerned Toyota is more plain Jane "GM of the Orient" while Honda chooses [or is forced] to be the lean, niche-oriented corporation with innovative powertrains and, when they choose to, stellar handling.

When it comes to products I slightly favor Honda, but would prefer German brands to both if $$ wasn't an issue.

Motorsports between the two are unique in that Toyota seems to focus on the US with the off-road truck racing, Winston Cup, CART/IRL while Honda cut it's teeth in Formula 3000 (?) and then Formula One. Toyota has also been present in IMSA racing while Honda has dabbled in it under the "Acura" badge. Toyota has also pursued Eurpean interests with WRC efforts.

So the way I see it Toyota has a true GLOBAL outlook and is reaching out to all markets in a way Honda does with motorbikes.

[autxr]

2002 US sales:

Honda 1,247,834

Toyota 1,756,127

Overseas Toyota sells even more, you tell me who's on top. 0-60 means nothing in the business world, the "leaders" are measured in Billions.

2002 global Revenues:

Toyota: 107,443 million dollars
Honda: 55,253 million dollars

For comparison:
GM: 186,763 million dollars

Boy, there's an ass whuppin if I've ever seen one.

At the current rate, in the next 10 years Toyota will be number 1 globally, probably the biggest company (financially) period, they *will* pass GM.

Toyota has about 48,000 million dollars more equity than GM.

Scott

[nudge1201]

I myself don't care to much about their revenue or financail status, what matter to me is as one who love to drive is the fun factor and performance standpiont of their current lineup of vehicles and honda is willing sacrifice some monitary gain by offering to the public hand assamble engines and performance cars who main objective is not to sell and produce as many as possible and but to make fine machinery avalible to the enthusist community. I wish toyota would do the same, honda doesn't make much money of it type R model vehicles or limited production car like the S2000 or NSX , by having a special productin line for certain performance vehicles and offer hand crafted vehicle (engines) to the average consumer. I appericiate that of Honda.

[HilfigerCelica]

Originally posted by nudge1201
I myself don't care to much about their revenue or financail status, what matter to me is as one who love to drive is the fun factor and performance standpiont of their current lineup of vehicles and honda is willing sacrifice some monitary gain by offering to the public hand assamble engines and performance cars who main objective is not to sell and produce as many as possible and but to make fine machinery avalible to the enthusist community. I wish toyota would do the same, honda doesn't make much money of it type R model vehicles or limited production car like the S2000 or NSX , by having a special productin line for certain performance vehicles and offer hand crafted vehicle (engines) to the average consumer. I appericiate that of Honda.

This is the outlook of most of the enthusiast community but regular ppl just want something roomy, reliable and rides smooth.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by Chui
Toyota is the more secure corporation. It is reputedly sitting on $US 40 BILLION [enough to purchase GM and Ford at current stock prices, btw] and it is rumored to have just passed Ford as the #2 sales leader in the US.

As far as quality is concerned Toyota is the world leader according to JD Powers 3 month and 6 month in service criteria. Honda is a close second.

As far as philosophy is concerned Toyota is more plain Jane "GM of the Orient" while Honda chooses [or is forced] to be the lean, niche-oriented corporation with innovative powertrains and, when they choose to, stellar handling.

When it comes to products I slightly favor Honda, but would prefer German brands to both if $$ wasn't an issue.

Motorsports between the two are unique in that Toyota seems to focus on the US with the off-road truck racing, Winston Cup, CART/IRL while Honda cut it's teeth in Formula 3000 (?) and then Formula One. Toyota has also been present in IMSA racing while Honda has dabbled in it under the "Acura" badge. Toyota has also pursued Eurpean interests with WRC efforts.

So the way I see it Toyota has a true GLOBAL outlook and is reaching out to all markets in a way Honda does with motorbikes.

Honda was in CART too, they just never really dominated it liek Toyota did the last season.

Thats the funny thing about Toyota and Motorsports - when they play eventually they almost always come to dominate a series after a while.

[nudge1201]

Toyota could appeal to the younger crowd they wanted if they were willing to do some of the thing honda practices. but that is not where the majority of the money is.

[The Wok]

I beg to differ with Honda not being as dominant in CART. Starting with Jimmy Vasser in 96, a Honda-powered driver won the driver's championship until da Matta won in 02, and in the process, I think Honda won the manufacturer's championship in all but one or two of those years. Honda had a great run in CART. It's too bad they're both running in circles now.

[PaLaDiN]

I've got an IS300 and an Integra GSR. Both are nice cars, but I use the IS300 for my dialy driving and the GSR as the weekend toy car. the IS300 is a 2001 while the GSR is a 96. Both are nice cars.

Keep in mind that the US/North America gets the "luxury" name. So all in all we are still just paying for a toyota and honda when buying a lexus and acura.

[Chui]

Originally posted by The Wok
I beg to differ with Honda not being as dominant in CART. Starting with Jimmy Vasser in 96, a Honda-powered driver won the driver's championship until da Matta won in 02, and in the process, I think Honda won the manufacturer's championship in all but one or two of those years. Honda had a great run in CART. It's too bad they're both running in circles now.

Exactly...

[Griffin]

Originally posted by PaLaDiN
I've got an IS300 and an Integra GSR. Both are nice cars, but I use the IS300 for my dialy driving and the GSR as the weekend toy car. the IS300 is a 2001 while the GSR is a 96. Both are nice cars.

Keep in mind that the US/North America gets the "luxury" name. So all in all we are still just paying for a toyota and honda when buying a lexus and acura.

Funny factoid - there are actually a number of people in Japan that will put lexus badging on Altezzas and other models that are Lexus branded in the US. I wonder if in their forums they are all hot to trot about UDM products... :D

[Griffin]

Originally posted by The Wok
I beg to differ with Honda not being as dominant in CART. Starting with Jimmy Vasser in 96, a Honda-powered driver won the driver's championship until da Matta won in 02, and in the process, I think Honda won the manufacturer's championship in all but one or two of those years. Honda had a great run in CART. It's too bad they're both running in circles now.

Honda WON the manufacturers championship, Toyota OWNED it. Which is the point I'm trying to make, Toyota eventually tends to start winning REALLY big like they are in IRL right now.

[Toy Yoda]

Originally posted by PaLaDiN
I've got an IS300 and an Integra GSR. Both are nice cars, but I use the IS300 for my dialy driving and the GSR as the weekend toy car. the IS300 is a 2001 while the GSR is a 96. Both are nice cars.

Keep in mind that the US/North America gets the "luxury" name. So all in all we are still just paying for a toyota and honda when buying a lexus and acura.

The general North American buyer doesn't drive like the European or Japanese buyer...
The consensus seems to be that N. A. drivers are softer, less enthusiastic about driving (a perception supported by our continent's baffling love affair with SUVs).
As a result, the bean counters come to the conclusion that a high-spec race model will not make money, so we can't put all the blame on the companies (i.e. Toyota) that refuse to provide some image cars.

The fact that Honda has only sold Type-Rs here for start-stop periods (no real consistency) is proof that they don't make as much money from these race-spec machines as they would like.

[Griffin]

Honda probably makes more money selling the Type R emblems than they do the cars themselves. Lord knows ya see enough of them.

[Jandree22]

Originally posted by Keyshawn
Honda and Toyota both make high-quality cars. What one likes better is simply personal preference.

:werd:

Not to bash Celicas, I love 'em... But would one of you please just try to find ONE source of car reviews that rates the Celica above the RSX?! I have yet to find one. The RSX is even cheaper when comparably equipped.

Keyshawn hit the nail on the head when he said ppl here are biased. The point is, who cares about the F1 reputation and how big Toyota's pockets are when purchasing a vehicle?! I now must question why a new GT-S is $25k if Toyota's so friggen rich! Might as well get a WRX for that price... Honestly, Acura has me sold on the RSX-S's performance and price aspects. I just can't get over the looks of the Celica, hence why I'm around here, not an RSX board.

Walmart has a $hitload more money in their corporation than Abercrombie or AE, but which of those sells higher quality clothing?! Think about that one then get back to me;)

[Speck102]

Honda and Toyota are both pretty good cars, but overall, I would say Toyota simply because I have owned both cars and like the Toyotas more.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by Jandree22


:werd:

Not to bash Celicas, I love 'em... But would one of you please just try to find ONE source of car reviews that rates the Celica above the RSX?! I have yet to find one. The RSX is even cheaper when comparably equipped.


JD Powers IQS study:

1 - Mazda Miate
2 - MR2
3 - Celica

Not sure about RSX but I believe it was 5 or 6

Toyota Consistently outscores Honda in any and all initial quality and long term durability benchmarking studies done by just about every company out there.

Oh if you want to see for yourself go here

http://www.jdpower.com/cc/index.html

and go to automotive. Pick the one for I know the cars I want and choose Toyota Celica and Acura RSX. It ranks Celica over RSX. Slide the bars for mechanical quality and long term reliability over and you get the same result.

The fact is the people who are constantly bitching about their Celica here are usually kids who abuse the crap out of them or first time new car buyers. I've had a ****load of new and new cars including 3 7th Gen Celicas and ONE warrantable failure between the 3 of them.

We are NOT representative of the public at large. The vast majority of people who buy sports compacts are not "enthusuasts" they are simply people who drive it and like it and buy it. Thats true of most makes, sports compacts are an emotion based purchase, they are not a practical decision.

So now YOU show ME ANY survey based on the results of what actual OWNERS have said after at least a few months of ownership that says otherwise.

[Jandree22]

well Griffin, ya proved me wrong!:p: I'm kinda glad ya did though, I never realized there was such a comprehensive resource for consumer reviews! I'm glad to hear that the Celica is rated higher though... I like it better anyways:chuckles:

Could you please explain what you meant when you said "I've had a ****load of new and new cars including 3 7th Gen Celicas and ONE warrantable failure between the 3 of them." I'm a lil confused...

thanks:)

[Griffin]

Originally posted by Jandree22
well Griffin, ya proved me wrong!:p: I'm kinda glad ya did though, I never realized there was such a comprehensive resource for consumer reviews! I'm glad to hear that the Celica is rated higher though... I like it better anyways:chuckles:

Could you please explain what you meant when you said "I've had a ****load of new and new cars including 3 7th Gen Celicas and ONE warrantable failure between the 3 of them." I'm a lil confused...

thanks:)

I've owned a 2000 GTS, a 2001 GTS, and a 2002 GTS. Between the 3 GTSs I only ever had one failure that was covered under warranty (Lift Bolt in my 02) I had a couple tire failures from abuse and some body damage from road debris or parking lot stuff but none of that is really a warranty thing. On my other new cars (I've had a Tundra, 2 4 Runners, a Mazda MX3, an Echo, and a RAV 4 and a Matrix XRS - all new) I did have other problems. The Tundra had some front brake problems and a bad whine from an AC blend door motor, the 4 Runnder had a 6 disc changer failure, and the Matrix has a bad buzz / rattle in the dash. The Mazda was constantly in for service for tranny and engine problems though.

[ringthree]

Originally posted by Jandree22

The RSX is even cheaper when comparably equipped.


That is not true. I have priced them every year and the RSX is always more expensive (at least where I live). I think it because people assume that the RSX comes with "all the options" when it does not. When you include comparable equipment, the RSX is a good 1-2K more expensive (again, at least in my area).

[Edit: I just did the on-line comparison and the Celica was more expensive. That is the first time that happened (2003). I would still expect to see that at the dealership the Celica was cheaper. The really funny thing is that the Toyota website listed the GT-S as a 5 speed.]