12 second Celica GTS formula *6sp*

[celicajr2002]

Hey guys i was wondering after i get my 6speed * i currently own a auto gts*

i plan on doing the following to make my car go 12 seconds in the quarter mile:

Helical LSD
NOS 50 shot wet kit*hidden*
Strip the cars interior a bit*remove back seat side stuff etc
Sparco tornio racing seats
TRD sportivo Suspension kit
Kazuma Race exaust *use silencer when not on drag strip*
Blitz Supercharger *getting this imported direct or will go for the WC turbo kit when they do come out with it or get a custom kit blowing at 10-14 psi
TRD, Weisco or Crower Low compression pistons *set at 8:5.1
Crower con. rods
B&M short shifter kit
ACT Racing clutch
Toms Lightend flywheel
AEM computer fuel and boost control system
*or super airflow controller by apexi*
Michilen Piolt MXX3 tires fitted onto BBS RC 2's
*please inform me if these tires are good or not im not quite sure as to the tire part*
Sparco Racing Harness.

so what do you think please advise me as to how to do this as well your help is very much appricated.

Also a side note is nitrous *nos in particular* illegal in california? i heard it is unless you have the pressure set down to zero. I read taht on a celica website wehre some guy got pulled over and it found out he had nos in his car casue he had the back seat removed but he got let go casue he had his pressure set to zero
if it is how do i prevent this by getting a hidden system?


this is all casue some doof on a site im a member of said that our cars couldnt get to 12 seconds on the quatrer mile casue they are SLOW *this dude has a bmw five series* BAH i read of one dude who did it here. I mean our cars are light enough and with the proper tuning and mods why not?

[veil320]

Racing seats aren't going to help you go faster

sub 13 second cars need a rollbar too

you need to fix up the head, retainers, springs, valves, guides...


the full sportivo kit won't give you the best launch

you might need to protect your block too..piston rings, sleeves


Nitrous is not illegal to have, but it is illegal to use on the public road

you might want to stiffen up the chassis

12's is not cheap....do you have money to buy thes parts and get them installed???

....why don't you aim for 13's...that's still very respectable for a street car...especially a 4 cylinder


p.s. don't forget traction will always be your biggest problem on a front wheel drive car....

[KevinO]

That's alot of money there, parts and install. I've seen these "dream lists" come and go on the boards. Good luck in making it come true. Heck I have a "dream list" but with the house, two cars, girlfriend and, a social life. I will never even come close to making it a reality. Good luck.

btw hidden kit? have you been watching the fast n furious?:chuckle:

[nmyeti]

Originally posted by veil320
Racing seats aren't going to help you go faster

sub 13 second cars need a rollbar too


You need a cage on a nhra track at 11.99
you need one on an ihir track at 11.49 (iirc on this one)

[celicajr2002]

Originally posted by veil320
Racing seats aren't going to help you go faster
thats mostly for safty

sub 13 second cars need a rollbar too
really ? i thought that was only for like cars taht are convertables like the miata?

you need to fix up the head, retainers, springs, valves, guides...


the full sportivo kit won't give you the best launch
hmm any sugesstions on someting more as well?

you might need to protect your block too..piston rings, sleeves
yeah engine protection is a defninit must.


Nitrous is not illegal to have, but it is illegal to use on the public road

i see

you might want to stiffen up the chassis

12's is not cheap....do you have money to buy thes parts and get them installed???
getting some help form my mom *im a kid only 19 so well im really gratful for her helping me and my bro does as well*


....why don't you aim for 13's...that's still very respectable for a street car...especially a 4 cylinder

yeah true i would like to do it that way as well but also test it to the max and prove that it is possible.


p.s. don't forget traction will always be your biggest problem on a front wheel drive car....

yeah thats why i was askng what type of tires i should get?

[Stnicralisk]

i hope you have a lot of cash and extra engines...

shooting a 50 shot and 14 psi is not going to be good without some serious fueling issues..
also dont hit Fuel Cut while spraying a few people have already fried their engine.

[celicajr2002]

Originally posted by KevinO
That's alot of money there, parts and install. I've seen these "dream lists" come and go on the boards. Good luck in making it come true. Heck I have a "dream list" but with the house, two cars, girlfriend and, a social life. I will never even come close to making it a reality. Good luck.

Yeah but it will be worth the money casue it will show people that we dont drive slow cars and when the 1/4 list was up on here i read of a guy who did do it in 12 seconds

btw hidden kit? have you been watching the fast n furious?:chuckle:

nope i read in an article in sport compact mag it can be done hidden as in hidden solienoids stuff like that.

[BlackGT]

ACTUALLY, racing seats will make you go faster theoretically. They are much lighter so therefore car pulling less weight and it is faster :)

Nitrous can be hidden easily. They actually have "Nitrous in a Bag" setups. They shove the bottle into a duffle bag so it looks like gym equipment. You can also hide everything in the engine bay. Very easy to do.

Good luck trying to run 14psi on a GT-S engine. Better get some custom internals.

-Tim

[X-EVIL-X]

why would you need 14psi plus a 50 shot of nos
you could probally get into the 12's with just the supercharger and good traction and still your interior(280 hp).
what was the fasted anyone has gotton on just a 50 shot?
i thought i saw a 13.12 on the 1/4 site but its down.
i think you can get inot the 12's with less than 6 grand

[Red-one]

You can get 12's with this mods:Turbo kit with at least a garret t3, arias 9.5 comp. pistons, stick tranny and drag slicks. Full interior, maybe you can touch even a 11.98. I've done 12.85 in a full interior 1.6 doch '87 integra, it has a T28 turbo spearco intercooler 2 additional inj. I did it using 13x6 wheels and MH 13x6x22 tires at 15psi. This was running 17psi boost..and almost 240whp. I figure my celi weights about the same but with 300+'s whp should be in low 12's high 11's.. That would be my prediction.

BRGS
RED

[celicajr2002]

WOAH LOW ELVENS :O SHIZNIT i didnt think that our cars can do tha :O

also guys im going for the supercharger but getting low comp pistons due to the fact that high compression engines arent good for forced induction.

also black gt what didnt you read ? when i said i would be getting low comp pistons?

[GTS LAID]

power output is not the problem.. power delivery and distribution is... if you're lucky enough not to fry your clutch on every launch, you still have to worry about that split second after the launch where the cars weight shifts to the rear and your front gets loose. Take a look at Rado's dragster to see what you can do to compensate.. hehe..

[fastwhipyo]

about the seats, if they are lighter then they will definetly make a difference, you have to think that every 14 lbs we loose on our cars is equal to 1HP, so if you can drop off 140lbs off the car than you just picked up an extra 10HP in weight kinda weird to say, but you technical guys know what I mean. This is stock though, if you have 300hp then that is equal to about every 8 lbs adding up to an extra HP, so in that case if you can loose 160lbs you just picked up another 20hp in weight...get it. according to newton acceleration= force / mass (its actually F=MA switched around) so the greater force you have the more a loss in mass will affect the cars positive acceleration.... hope i didnt confuse you guys too bad, I just wanted to point out that weight loss might not be THAT important stock, but when you get way up in HP then weight loss becomes much more significant.

[fastwhipyo]

by the way....by no means did i mean that you would loose 140 lbs or even close off off sparco seats, but if you can drop that much weight some how some way....then that is what it can mean....like CF hood, removed and lightened seats, plexiglass windows all around.

[Chiznarles]

aren't there lighter sparco seats than the torinos? The torinos are reclinable, i think the true bucket seats (non-reclinable) are lighter, aren't they?

anyhoo, good luck getting 12's.. thats a lofty goal

[fastwhipyo]

with the budget this guy must have to do all this stuff he is talking about, 12's will be cake, sounds like he is in the mood to spend 10g's or more, get new internals (low compression), blitz SC, intercooler, good gear for the sc for high boost, and 12's should be cake, but good luck installing all that and making the payments on it, dang i wish i had 10g's to drop into my car......O ya, better throw on some really fat and sticky slicks, your gonna need them with that much hp on a FWD, hehe, that would be a hell of a sight, watching a 350hp celica do a 1/4 mile burnout cause of ****ty tires and turn in a 16 flat, haha.

[ZeroGTS]

12;s shouldnt be terribly hard. get some good dragging tires and set up your suspension properly for drag launching.
stiffen up the rear significantly.

Flywheel
Limited Slip
A stronger clutch which can hold up to strip use
work on those tires pressures.
take out some weight
port and polish.
get your A/F ratios tuned.
it makes a minor (5-10) hp difference in peak hp
but can gain you up to 15 at the cam crossover. our computers seem to be lacking in that area.
Bore out the throttle body
ceramic coat various bits and pieces.
Get some lightweight rims...possibly spoon rims (not spoon..but the company that makes spoon rims..i forget the name right now. some volks would work too, but spoons are lighter)
a carbon fiber hood wont save much weight but every little bit counts.

remove the rear seats

strip out sound deadening material from the car
theres some in the firewall area. look for updated info about this this weekend

cut out the resonator in your bolt on exhaust or get a custom system made.
I like having something that looks like a bolt on...but isnt.

ice pack your engine before making the run for about 15-20 minutes. dry ice works too. make sure your oil temp is high enough to hit vvtli safely though.

make sure your rear springs are set tight with little travel so that the car doesnt rock back on them so hard.
thats what hurt me on my mustang race. at the 1-2 shift the sudden increase in power made it difficult to control wheelspin..along with poor road conditions.


im not sure about the fronts. if anyone knows a lot about dragging suspension feel free to share.
eibach pro kits with some good adjustable shocks should suffice.
thats enough for 13's if you use good tires and driving technique.
the new TODA flywheel should be as good if not better than the tom's unit.

come back once youve hit 13's in this setup.
then throw on a 50 shot wet kit. if you are in my area i will install it for you. Make sure you run a colder set of spark plugs otherwise bad things could happen.
forged internals would also help ensure you dont blow a piston.
get a stronger headgasket while you are at it.

thats all i can think of right now. the flu hurts me too badly.


then race me wihtout the juice and see how it goes...ill race you afterwards too...

:)

good luck!

[Bryan H]

you missed so much stuff its not even funny
fuel system
arp fastners
tranny work.
torque convertor
and a crap load more stuff im to tired to list

[FriedRice]

im sorry for not contributing speed ideas.... but reading ur first post. your going to try to get a 12 second car just because some guy in a 5 series bmw says celica slow? IMO, that wish-list a big excessive. how many grand are you willing to pour into your car just because someone said it was slow? our car is slow compared to domestics... pretty easy. if its ur pride thats hurt it doesnt matter. and if you're doing it for "celica-kind" just know this. as much as we'd like you see you get a 12 second car, we'd rather see you happy AFTER you've proved your point (i'm assuming thats wat we think). just tell him... when u drive ur bmw, do get as many looks as i do in mah celi?

IMHO.... that much money just to show someone up, it's just not worth it. but hey, everyones got their opinions. we just wanna see u happy and not feel like you've wasted your time and money.

[nmyeti]

This whole topic is pretty far fetched. There is no formula because no one has done it. Once they prove they can do it then you can follow their steps. Untill then, your just making wild guesses at what it takes to make a pipe dream happen.

[XteSy17]

here is my opinion...i think you should get a carbon fiber hood and fenders (they make it)...strip the interior...don't plan on driving this daily...get a roll cage take off door panels and drill about 20 holes in the doors metal support (takes off about 40lbs) get the trd flywheel and make sure you port and polish the head...you will need some slicks on the front and get coil overs for the suspension on the front because they are stiffer and they won't make the car shift back on take off...mickey thompson slicks are good i heard...get anything for a turbo by hks or greddy they know there stuff...upgrade bov and wastegate, turbo timer, boost controller etc...i recomend the apex-i N1 Turbo exhaust its big enough and with all that i think you can put more than 14psi...also don't forget to renforce everything

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by nmyeti
This whole topic is pretty far fetched. There is no formula because no one has done it. Once they prove they can do it then you can follow their steps. Untill then, your just making wild guesses at what it takes to make a pipe dream happen.

I totally agree. But I guess its just fun for some to talk, regardless of whether its a fantasy or not. I'm cool with that.

[infinitegts]

I plan on making my celica a ****ing airplane. Any suggestions?

[fastwhipyo]

ya, celica airplane mod is easy, first get a huge wing, then its simple, just get 7...no make that 8 type R stickers, i saw a honda hatchback DX take off on only 800ft of road, it was sick, and he only had 6 TR stickers

[BigBad91Turbo]

Lowering compression is really a miss guided myth these days. Will you ulitmately make more power with lower compression, ye sof course. But the reason that lowering first started was to try to reduce knock. Knock is enemy with high compression or forced induction, nothing will kill your engine faster.

Remember there are 2 types of power, ultimate HP, and usable power. You car may make 500hp, but if it takes you a second or two to get that, and you loose it during a shift while of there trottle, a quicker spooling 400hp car can easily kill you in a race. Yes you will win in the end, put how often does a race ever last more than a 1/8 mile on the streets.

By lowering your compression you are reducing the amount of exhaust that will be produced without boost. Well there is the problem. You have a really small engine already, and you need exhaust to spin that turbo. So maybe not lowering the compression so much would help that turbo spool up faster getting you into power. Now with a lowered compression your day to day driving is going to suck, you think the celica is gutless below 3500 rpms now, wait till have 8.5:1 compression, might as well go get a burger while your friends holds down the gas.

I have lowered the compression in my Supra to 7.6:1. My car makes ****loads of torque and is 3.2liters (bored) as well. That gives me alot of air to spin that turbo. Ultimatly the supra is a far better drag car than the celica could ever hope to be. That said hte celica is a far better track car than the supra will ever be due to its weight. I would take advantage of that fact in my set up and make sure I set the turbo up to give my lighting fast response. 50hp is a major differnce in power if it comes on fast. I fear if you set up for max power you will sadly disappointed when you play with the big boys.

I got spanked by a 10 sec Viper, made me feel like an ass in my supra (12.8 1/4 without the uprgrade turbo kit)

[fastwhipyo]

lowering the compression on the celica is a must, at 11.5:1 the engine can only handle around 6PSI consitently, by lowering the compression to 8.5:1, we will be able to run a good 15+ boost without many problems, running more than twice as much boost (if its intercooled) will be give us a substantial boost in power, and remember, were only gonna be running maybe a 16G turbo or so, those things spoil up SUPER fast anyway...with a 3 inch downpipe the turbo lag would not be bad at all and would most likely reach full boost at around 3 to 3.5k rpms, which is perfectly fine with me. the problem with higher compression is that although the turbo will spoil faster...it will also reach its aerodynamically insuffiecient (sp?) rpm sooner which will mean that we will hit peak boost at around 6k RPM's which doesnt do us much good since we shift into the 6k range, meaning we would be missing the powerband. Since we already launch with high RPM's.....it would seem that by giving us a turbo with a good top end it make the car do much better in the 1/4 mile, becuase we already have traction problems anyway, we might as well launch slow and then rocket through all the gears after that since its gonna be a bitch trying to get a 2.0 60' time consistently no matter how much HP we got down low. personally it pisses me off when i drive a 1g DSM and the thing feels fast as nutz till around 5k RPM's and then the power curve gets REALLY flat...like the damn thing has stopped, haha. well by buying a better top end turbo like the big 16g (ported) you instantly get rid of that anoying power drop without much sacrifice in turbo lag.

[bboyfranky]

There are guys running very low 14's with just simple bolt-on's. I think that all the mods you mentioned would be overkill, and would just give you traction problems. A more streamlined/focused list of mods (S/C, clutch, s-shifter, LSD, exhaust, springs, shocks/struts, AFC) and the correct feather-clutching launch technique would get you into the upper 12's. No internal mods needed.

[nmyeti]

I'll say this again... its all just talking crap till someone actually does it. Come on now get your rears to the track and run the numbers. Till then shut up about the topic. You want to know how to build a low 12 second WRX... sure i can tell you that because i have done it. You want to know how to build a 10 second WRX... i can give you that setup as well. No one has built a 12 second 2zz powered celica just yet...

[celenium]

Originally posted by celicajr2002
Hey guys i was wondering after i get my 6speed * i currently own a auto gts*

i plan on doing the following to make my car go 12 seconds in the quarter mile:

Helical LSD
NOS 50 shot wet kit*hidden*
Strip the cars interior a bit*remove back seat side stuff etc
Sparco tornio racing seats
TRD sportivo Suspension kit
Kazuma Race exaust *use silencer when not on drag strip*
Blitz Supercharger *getting this imported direct or will go for the WC turbo kit when they do come out with it or get a custom kit blowing at 10-14 psi
TRD, Weisco or Crower Low compression pistons *set at 8:5.1
Crower con. rods
B&M short shifter kit
ACT Racing clutch
Toms Lightend flywheel
AEM computer fuel and boost control system
*or super airflow controller by apexi*
Michilen Piolt MXX3 tires fitted onto BBS RC 2's
*please inform me if these tires are good or not im not quite sure as to the tire part*
Sparco Racing Harness.



You know what I would do? GET A 6-SPEED! haha an automatic? come on. give me a break
--------------------------------------
silver GTS 6-speed

[X-EVIL-X]

i think he said that he's getting the 6 speed and then doing the stuff to it:rolleyes:

[dfess1]

I would think that once you start to put this power down, you'd need to upgrade the CV joints, no? You don't need to be snapping them because they weren't designed to have so much power thrown at them. Just a thought...

[BigBad91Turbo]

Originally posted by fastwhipyo
the problem with higher compression is that although the turbo will spoil faster...it will also reach its aerodynamically insuffiecient (sp?) rpm sooner which will mean that we will hit peak boost at around 6k RPM's which doesnt do us much good since we shift into the 6k range, meaning we would be missing the powerband.

Actually compression has nothing to do with peak power or aerodynamic...whatever you where trying to say.

A given turbo has a range of efficency that can mapped out. Basicly coalating how much boost can be created while creating so much heat. Once a turbo gets outside of its range of efficency it starts producing a large amount of heat, it may boost to 20psi, but doing so by producing far more heat than it would at 16psi. The amount of heat produced can be so much that the charged or compressed air is actually less dense and does not produce as much power as a cooler charge at a lower psi.

When setting up a turbo you need to look at alot of things. There is a A/R ratio, that is the angle of cut of the rear exhaust housing blades, the higher the value the more agressive. Lets say you had an A/R or 1.0, and another of .50. Given that a specific flow of air could be maintained, the 1.0 would have rotated 1X for ever 1/2 turn of the .5 A/R turbo. You then chose a front secton to match this to produce the boost levels you want based upon the RPM and exhaust flow of your engine.

So what does that crap mean?, well simply that RPM and compression have nothing to do with wear the usable boost is for a turbo, you can mix and match the turbo to your needs. Choosing a turbo is not an easy deal, it is a lot of planing then some good guessing.

So agian, yes I would lower the compression, but to go down to 8.5 sounds pretty extreme unless you are looking for purely a drag car. There is a give and take with compression and forced induction,

When a car running 8.5:1 compression sees 10psi boost it will not make as much power as the 11.1:1 car seeing the same boost. It is not an linear equation based strictly on boost. The turbo has to make up for that lost compression.

[DIABLO6SPEED]

if you guys remember, the RMM celica had 550 HP

[TeeAreDeaGeeTeeEss]

Originally posted by nmyeti
I'll say this again... its all just talking crap till someone actually does it. Come on now get your rears to the track and run the numbers. Till then shut up about the topic. You want to know how to build a low 12 second WRX... sure i can tell you that because i have done it. You want to know how to build a 10 second WRX... i can give you that setup as well. No one has built a 12 second 2zz powered celica just yet...

Why can't Celica owners dream? We really have no force induction aftermarket, talking about it makes them happy, so let it be. So your WRX can do 12's, whoopty doo. We are talking about celicas. Is it possible for a celica to do 12's? yes. Its gonna be hard as hell, but let them dream. Will someone do it in this lifetime? probably not. Its like telling your 2 yr old child that there is no Santa Claus. It really has nothing to do with you or your WRX. They are just having a nice simple conversation among themselves. Its really not necessary to tell them to shut up about their aspirations.

[BigBad91Turbo]

Ha..that RRM celica did not even use the engine from the previous celica, not the one we have now, it also used the celica AWD drivetrain.

Man I would love that car!!

[xi KiNG ix]

While we're talking about the Ultimate Celica..

Question: Why is the Ultimate Celica (RMM) so slow? I remember reading in car and driver or something it only gets low 13's..

[nmyeti]

Originally posted by TeeAreDeaGeeTeeEss


Why can't Celica owners dream? We really have no force induction aftermarket, talking about it makes them happy, so let it be. So your WRX can do 12's, whoopty doo. We are talking about celicas. Is it possible for a celica to do 12's? yes. Its gonna be hard as hell, but let them dream. Will someone do it in this lifetime? probably not. Its like telling your 2 yr old child that there is no Santa Claus. It really has nothing to do with you or your WRX. They are just having a nice simple conversation among themselves. Its really not necessary to tell them to shut up about their aspirations.

Because its one thing to dream... its another to base a "plan of attack" off a bunch of suggestions from people that have never done what your trying to do.

You want to build a 12 second celica, frankly celica owners are not the people to ask since as of yet no one has done it.

If you think you can do it, your welcome to spend your money and take your chances, but don't come in here and give us all a plan of attack when there is no basis for how it would work.

A better question is to ask... how did so and so build their 12 second type R or civic. Then ask how can we apply that to us.

[X-EVIL-X]

i believe that there are plenty 12 second celica's out there right now.
not all the people know about this site or dont use the computer for car discussions...

[nmyeti]

Originally posted by X-EVIL-X
i believe that there are plenty 12 second celica's out there right now.
not all the people know about this site or dont use the computer for car discussions...

I don't belive it... i doubt very much that there is a 12 second 2000 or newer GT-S out there now.

This would be a BIG deal if there were, and someone would have seen this guy that does use one of the many net sites...

In any case it does not ammount to anything since the people on this site have not got a 12 second celica, asking this site about how to build one is not the best course of action.

[X-EVIL-X]

true,
but what people do to their cars dont always end up on the computer.
we have a gts with a 50 shot that ran a 13.12.
i think its very well possible for 12's escpecially once the turbo and supercharger kits come out.

[nmyeti]

I hope it works out for you guys, but bryanH's times have not even been close to repeted...

[MattTheTerror]

If you wana hit 12s and not spend 30grand just get the crap below ;)

Port & Polish
Well... over all head work.. springs, ect
Solid Copper head gasket
Forged Pistons (8.5 CR)
Forged Connecting rods
Get a 150shot of nos and a bottle heater :)
And a set of mickey thompons :p

[Miguel GTS]

man with all that money get a pre 95 hatch back civic and drop a a GSR v-tech (b18) i think that is the name not sure

strip the **** out of it and you'll have a fast as **** car and can make it a sleeper (make money with it ) and still have the celi to roll around in with class and have you all racer at home

[Bryan H]

{sigh}

my car is GONE. it is no more. it has seased to be!
{thank monty python for that one}


the money you spend on the hatch back with a gsr {b18c1} motor. you could have a 12 second celica

copper head gaskets are bad for everyday driver cars. race only.

my street tire times have been duplicated. i just had more mph
my drag radial times still stand.

my car is in a junk yard. which im going to go pillage monday morning.

[racinjason]

With all that hardware in my car. I'd be shooting for low 11's. Hell with 12's.

[ZeroGTS]

i have to agree with nmyeti (nathan)

the BEST way to go about this is to duplicate what those aLL MOTOR 12 second civics have done.
1st of all...an all motor car requires a GREAT driver. No room for error like in turbo cars...its VERY hard to drive an all motor car correctly. theres no low end power.
Peter from PYR in houston does BAD ASS work on polishing heads.
i think he only works on hondas, however.
but if you give anyone enough money they will try.
if you want fast go to PYR....theres drama in the name, im sure ill get flames but thats what generally people say.

now, celicas you gotta go custom.
Patternsons machine shop does badass work
i have another phone number in my wallet of an AWESOME port and polish guy.

port and polish and boring out headers throttle body/intake manifold and proper tuning are the key to making our cars fast.
also, a straight pipe exhaust (none of this bolt on crap)
and TUNING.
all the work you put in wont mean diddly**** unless you tune it.
SAFC, POWERFC, HALTECH, etc.

this is what we need. laptop connections. dynos. lots of time to fine tune

and some small 15 inch wheels
with some sticky tires.


i know enough now. i made some mistakes in my car's bu ildup

but itll cost me a lot to reverse this.

im sure osmeone else can do all this machining work.
all motor requires an attention to detail. unless you have ported and polished..dont bitch about not having new valves valvessprings and spring retainers.

thank you that is all.