Dealer Changed My Odometer

[futureceli]

omg...what are some suggested steps and or things i should do to them to make them pay for what they have done? all inputs welcomed...give me some insight on this situation!!!

just to refresh people's memory...My fight with Toyota and Mark Motors (http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=81844) ...now doesnt this make this case even worse on their part? i think so...i think that jacking my odometer up 21,933 miles was their way to get revenge on me...

ok, here's the scoop...on 4-03-03 my proven mileage taken from my history report FROM mark motors was 52,147 miles....and then on 5-14-03 my car overheated and died....so subtract 4-03-03 from 5-14-03 and you get 41 days...ok, i got my car back on friday july 11th and the odometer read 74,080 miles which is also the mileage stated on the paperwork that i got back from mark motors(meaning that they recieved my car with 74,080 miles on it already)...hmmm, only 920 miles away from the expiration of my extended warranty coverage...[i sense a connection here]...anyways, now subtract 52,147 from 74,080 and you get 21,933 miles in a 41 day span...holy sh!t, right! now, take that, 21,933 and divide by 41 days (proven days between last two check ups and documented mileage), you get 535 miles a day(rounded up)...take that and divide it by, say, 65mph...you now get 8 hours and 23 minutes of driving each day @ 65mph for 41 days straight....

i think that right there is all i need to win a court battle against toyota and/or mark motors...

ok, time to vent, wtf were they thinking...can u guys fuking believe this sh!t? what the hell do they think they are doing...they must think that i am some dumb ass non-english speaking gook that will agree and nod my head "yes" as if i understand everything they say and know nothing about the law...Mark Motors in Wisconsin Rapids, WI is sooooo screwed...they should know better than to violate a federal law...

[robertsp]

Wow that is carzy odometer fraud is a huge thing go after them. Get a lawyer and let him feast.

[Chiznarles]

holy crap! keep us updated with that..

[DrunkenTiger]

sue them.

[WillyK]

Originally posted by DrunkenTiger
sue them.

[futureceli]

man, im sure i will sue them, but for what though? a new car? make them buy mine? $$$? they are so fuked! like i once said, my girlfriends uncle is an attorney. i can not wait to see what they have to say about this sh!t. the car's value is shot already since there is no way to tell how many actual miles are on the car. i will be sure to keep u guys updated...

[2k2blkgts]

dammm, aint that a b!tch, SUE THEIR A$$. I hope you'll get a new engine put in. either that or they better give you $$$$$ for a new celica because that's the biggest fraud i've seen yet. Good LUCK!!

[CreepingJeff]

Originally posted by DrunkenTiger
sue them.

[XYRCNCP]

Originally posted by futureceli
man, im sure i will sue them, but for what though? a new car? make them buy mine? $$$? they are so fuked! like i once said, my girlfriends uncle is an attorney. i can not wait to see what they have to say about this sh!t. the car's value is shot already since there is no way to tell how many actual miles are on the car. i will be sure to keep u guys updated...

you wouldn't be suing only for the car or a new car, but for the fact that they committed odometer fraud and they have directly affected your financial interest by lowering the value of your car.

so like said before:
Originally posted by DrunkenTiger
sue them.

[futureceli]

i received a used engine with 18,xxx miles on it...so the car is running, but that doesnt mean sh!t because im trying to sell my car[see sig]. with this bs now, i doubt that anyone will buy my car knowing that the odometer has been tampered with. and yes, i will tell any potential buyer that the odometer is incorrect.

fuk that, i dont want anything to do with toyota's sh!tty service anymore...i will not accept any car on their behalf, unless its the Lexus line or any future supercar that they have in the makings.

[larryd]

I was not aware that they can even adjust your mileage. I know its all contained in the actual gauge cluster itself.

[CelicaGTS6906]

Originally posted by DrunkenTiger
sue them.

[futureceli]

Originally posted by larryd
I was not aware that they can even adjust your mileage. I know its all contained in the actual gauge cluster itself.

well, technically they cant. but my ASSUMPTION is that they ordered a new cluster and had toyota enter 70,080 miles on it. i know for a fact that they can do this because i have had a cluster repaced under warranty once before and that was how they adjusted the mileage. so either the extended warranty company and mark motors is working in conjunction or mark motors put in a false request to the extended warranty company to get my gauge cluster replaced with higher mileage...whatever it is, they had to have left a paper trail...

[2k2blkgts]

they probably lowered the Milages on that engine also, you never know.


Originally posted by futureceli
i received a used engine with 18,xxx miles on it...so the car is running, but that doesnt mean sh!t because im trying to sell my car[see sig]. with this bs now, i doubt that anyone will buy my car knowing that the odometer has been tampered with. and yes, i will tell any potential buyer that the odometer is incorrect.

fuk that, i dont want anything to do with toyota's sh!tty service anymore...i will not accept any car on their behalf, unless its the Lexus line or any future supercar that they have in the makings.

[fox2000gt-s]

This is by far the sh!ttiest thing I've ever heard a dealership do.

[futureceli]

Originally posted by 2k2blkgts
they probably lowered the Milages on that engine also, you never know.

probably....who knows! i'll find out when sh!t hits the fan in court

[TRD StreetRacing]

if you have the document w/ the original milage of the car when u gave it in.....u have a good case against them

[t2000gts]

Originally posted by DrunkenTiger
sue them.

[t2000gts]

sue them, burn them in court, and then take it to corporate toyota, make real toyota pissed at that dumb dealer and threaten them around a bit. this is exactly the kind of thing Toyota doesn't need to mess up their carefully earned public image.

[SF GT]

That is shady!

[larryd]

I cant remember if you said so or not but have you actually contacted the dealership about this yet for their reasoning?

[TRlPPlN]

this is one of the reasons why i always take a pic of my stuff before bringin it to the dealership. call me anal but its covering my ass if they do something wrong.

sue them please. i dont f'n get why dealerships can have such shi-tty service

[silverdragon]

that is ****ty man- just like PC club switching my 2100 athlon for a 1500!!! got the whole computer replaced so u should get a new car!

[DopeCelicaGT]

Sue the hell outta them hell I wil help u if u gimme a cut LOL!! That is sever fraud and grounds in my mind for closing of the dealership. Try and get your lawyer to find out if anyone else has had a similar situation like yours with this dealership, if there have been multiple counts then well I have said enough u know what to do!! Keep us posted! Actually if it were me and this may not be feasible but if the court does say this may be grounds for closing the dealership then sue for the dealership LOL and partnership with Toyota so u can bring back some pride to the Toyota name by becoming new owner of the dealership!

[xNiNjAx]

A similar incident occured with my parents a long time ago. They bought a brand new Toyota Cressida and they were happy with it for a while. Then they took it to the mechanic for the first check up and somehow, he discovered that the mileage had been tampered with and in actuality, the car originally had 5,000 miles on it. (when we bought it, it had 100) So we threatened to sue and they refunded back 10 grand to hush it all up.

[skittles13691]

I feel really bad for you! I think that Toyota cars are excellent as far as the general quality of the car and value. The bottom line: TOYOTA NEEDS TO PAY ATTENTION TO IT'S SCREWY DEALERS! Many people joke about politicians and lawyers being scummy...but I find dealerships and other car guys can be worse. (I love the toyota guys that say that a missing butterfly valve caused the clutch to fail....etc.etc.)

I almost went with an Acura b/c of the service. When I was trying to get my Celica, the kept telling me my car was "coming in"...and when it came there, it was the wrong color, trim and transmission-and they insisted that I take it (a manual GT for the price of a GTS auto?).

We drove 400 miles to one dealership-h said he would get us the EXACT car I wanted for 19k (cheap for an auto GT-S). We get there, and it's a 2002 (19k is too much), and has several hundred miles on it. We had setteled on a price before he mentioned it was a 2002! I refused. My mom was signing with me. He got very snotty and said, "It's a great deal....you're daughter can't tell you what to do." Who's PAYING for the car?

We spent months. The guys wanted to truck one in and have us pay the delivery charge ($500???). We told him we'd pick it up. He refused to tell us WHERE the car was, and we couldn't find it searching Toyota's database.

The one where we actually bought my car said it came with an after market security system...then told us it would cost $400 (after we had negotiated a price). We said no way, he said he'd take it off if we didn't pay...we almost ended up walking, but he backed down.

I'm glad you kept records! Get a great lawyer and SUE THEM FOR EVERYTHING THEY'RE WORTH! I don't know much about law...but perhaps a criminal case would be made out of it. I would love to see some of these crappy people in an orange jumpsuit :).

Keep us posted!

[Drew]

Just one question, have you actually told the dealership about this yet? That might be a good first step.:rolleyes:

[jotan82]

:stupid:

you need to talk to a manager at the dealership and let him know what happened, if he doesn't take corrective actions immediately, then i would wave the 'i'm gonna take you to court' aka 'you're gonna see my lawyer' stick

[Chumpchiggy]

Originally posted by jotan82
:stupid:

you need to talk to a manager at the dealership and let him know what happened, if he doesn't take corrective actions immediately, then i would wave the 'i'm gonna take you to court' aka 'you're gonna see my lawyer' stick

This seems the most logical route.

[bme107]

Originally posted by Chumpchiggy
This seems the most logical route.
Yes, but this is 2003. We sue first and ask questions later. :rolleyes:

[futureceli]

Originally posted by bme107
Yes, but this is 2003. We sue first and ask questions later. :rolleyes:

WERD....

[futureceli]

Originally posted by larryd
I cant remember if you said so or not but have you actually contacted the dealership about this yet for their reasoning?

Originally posted by Drew
Just one question, have you actually told the dealership about this yet? That might be a good first step.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by jotan82
:stupid:

you need to talk to a manager at the dealership and let him know what happened, if he doesn't take corrective actions immediately, then i would wave the 'i'm gonna take you to court' aka 'you're gonna see my lawyer' stick

Originally posted by Chumpchiggy
This seems the most logical route.

just got off the phone with the service manager 20 minutes firm with what i had to say, but at the same time i wasnt being an ass about it either...well, i told him that my odometer read 74,080 on my receipt and on my odometer, but i have verifiable proof that it was only at 52147 miles 41 days prior. so i asked him why this was and for him to give me an explanation. i guess he pulled up my records and says that i had an odometer head change on 3-10-03...i cut him off and was like,"yes i did, but what does that have to do with my odometer reading." note: all this time he was being extremely quite and passive; not normal for this guy because i have been dealing with him for the past two months and i know how i he is. anyways, he goes to say and implicates that there is no way he could have changed the odometer reading because its all housed in the cluster and it is all done by program. i then said to him, "this is odometer fraud and it is a federal offense." he remains quite for a good 45 seconds, prolly srambling for an answer that he didnt have. so after i said that, he tells me that he could have my odometer changed back to 52,147 miles. i was like, fuk that(in my head of course). i told him how is that beneficial to the future owner of my car. once the odometer has been tampered with it depreciates the cars value and that there is no way of ever getting the correct reading anymore. he says to me that thats all he can do and that it is not odometer fraud. I say to him " thanks for your time. you will be hearing from somebody else regarding this situation and hung up."


Edit: my girlfriend just called me from work and guess what? the service manager called her back after talking to me and told her that he was gonna go ahead and order a new gauge cluster and change the odometer reading. WTF!!! how easy is that to do? exactly! now i know that they are trying to hide something.


i mean if you guys tried to call your dealership and say that your odometer jumped 21,000 miles, would they just say, "sir, we will just go ahead and order u a new gauge cluster and set the odometer back 21,000 miles." sure, highly unlikely! i didnt even ask for him to order a new one, the service manager offered and it seems that he is gonna order it regardless of my consent.

Edit 2: my girl just called me back again and said that two former employees were fired recently for action similar to what happened to me. uhmmmm...more ammo for me i guess. but really though, they were fired before my car was taken in to get fixed. does anyone spot anything fishy here?

should i call and ask for the owner of the dealership or should i just get an attorney?

[DaileyDog]

Get a freaking attorney and hire them on contengency. Which means, they agree to be paid only a portion of whatever you're awarded if you win.

But, whatever you do, get counsel.

Sounds like you need it. Not sure what the hell you're waiting for but hire a lawyer for your own sake. And then have your lawyer call the owner.

Mike

[futureceli]

well two reasons on me waiting to hire a lawyer,

1: my girls uncle is a lawyer and i want some input on his behalf on who to hire

2: i want to hire a reputable law firm

they both add up to the same thing i guess...

[DaileyDog]

You're going to make excuses long enough to hose yourself.

And then, when you get taken, you're going to come on here bitching, linking to previous threads, asking if you should hire a lawyer NOW, and the cycle completes/repeats itself.

What a waste of everyone's time.

Pick one:
1. Hire the uncle. He's a lawyer, right?
2. Say uncle to the dealership screwing you.

Mike

[Drew]

I would just take the new gauge cluster...talk to the service manager some more. If your case does go to the courts you won't have a damn thing done for at least 2 or 3 years. Take it from experience (well, sort of). Dealerships like to settle legal things without the use of an attorney. Case in point, waaaaaay back in the day I had to "swap" my Celica for a new Celica because the dealer sold me one that was damaged and they covered it up. To make a very long story short, I played it cool and got a brand new Celica...after racking up over 1,000 miles on the other one. They were very quick to settle it out of court....something similar happened to someone else who used to be on this board. This person decided to opt for court instead and still have not reached a settlment...and this all happened in January of 2000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't be greedy. Just get what you originally wanted, which was your original mileage on your car back...don't think this will all lead to a huge cash settlement so you can buy an Evo or something...it's just not gonna work.

Just my $0.02

[futureceli]

Originally posted by DaileyDog
You're going to make excuses long enough to hose yourself.

And then, when you get taken, you're going to come on here bitching, linking to previous threads, asking if you should hire a lawyer NOW, and the cycle completes/repeats itself.

What a waste of everyone's time.

Pick one:
1. Hire the uncle. He's a lawyer, right?
2. Say uncle to the dealership screwing you.

Mike

haha...lol

dont try to be funny...uncle is a criminal defense attorney...and it has only been two days....Monday, Tuesday....i have plenty of time to pick and chose the right firm...

[futureceli]

Originally posted by Drew
I would just take the new gauge cluster...talk to the service manager some more. If your case does go to the courts you won't have a damn thing done for at least 2 or 3 years. Take it from experience (well, sort of). Dealerships like to settle legal things without the use of an attorney. Case in point, waaaaaay back in the day I had to "swap" my Celica for a new Celica because the dealer sold me one that was damaged and they covered it up. To make a very long story short, I played it cool and got a brand new Celica...after racking up over 1,000 miles on the other one. They were very quick to settle it out of court....something similar happened to someone else who used to be on this board. This person decided to opt for court instead and still have not reached a settlment...and this all happened in January of 2000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't be greedy. Just get what you originally wanted, which was your original mileage on your car back...don't think this will all lead to a huge cash settlement so you can buy an Evo or something...it's just not gonna work.

Just my $0.02

im not looking for any money of any sort...im looking to get rid of the damn car and get a new one period! will i accept one from toyota, most likely not. why, because these dealerships up here suck ass! and their service work is plain sh!t...there is also one other thing i would like out of this and it has nothing to do with $$$...

[Drew]

Ok, but I hate to be the barer of bad news, but the dealership is not gonna give you a new car. At best, the only conceivable thing they would do even remotely close to what you want, is to give you a used car with a similar current value and the chance of that happening is like 0.000001%. All they are really obligated to do is put your car back the way it was the day you brought it to them. And maybe that's not a bad idea. Get your car put back together from the dealership and then trade it in. It doesn't have to be traded at that dealership. Sure you are probably not going to get the value you want for it, but if you trully hate the car and just want to get rid of it...well then, there you go. Nobody has reported the odomoeter nonsense to any authority type person, so there will be no record of it.

Like I said, you could try to go to court over this, but you will be given your Celica back, which you will have to drive over the next 2-3 years while you wait for your case to go somewhere...and you will have to drive this Celica starting with 74,080 miles. I really don't see this being a hard decision in my mind at least. You could have a miracle and the dealer could break under your pressure of an attorney but that's unlikely. Dealerships are very profitable businesses...they can afford higher legal bills than you can (even if you have a family member that's an attorney). Most dealerships will go to court if they have to since they have such a great success rate in court.

[Chiznarles]

i'm kinda with Drew on this.. it doesn't sound like you can get much on the account of "Odometer Fraud". All the hassle you will go through in court with a lawyer and everything might end up getting you what they already offered.. a new odometer with the correct miles attached..

[futureceli]

Originally posted by Drew
Ok, but I hate to be the barer of bad news, but the dealership is not gonna give you a new car. At best, the only conceivable thing they would do even remotely close to what you want, is to give you a used car with a similar current value and the chance of that happening is like 0.000001%. All they are really obligated to do is put your car back the way it was the day you brought it to them. And maybe that's not a bad idea. Get your car put back together from the dealership and then trade it in. It doesn't have to be traded at that dealership. Sure you are probably not going to get the value you want for it, but if you trully hate the car and just want to get rid of it...well then, there you go. Nobody has reported the odomoeter nonsense to any authority type person, so there will be no record of it.

Like I said, you could try to go to court over this, but you will be given your Celica back, which you will have to drive over the next 2-3 years while you wait for your case to go somewhere...and you will have to drive this Celica starting with 74,080 miles. I really don't see this being a hard decision in my mind at least. You could have a miracle and the dealer could break under your pressure of an attorney but that's unlikely. Dealerships are very profitable businesses...they can afford higher legal bills than you can (even if you have a family member that's an attorney). Most dealerships will go to court if they have to since they have such a great success rate in court.

Originally posted by Chiznarles
i'm kinda with Drew on this.. it doesn't sound like you can get much on the account of "Odometer Fraud". All the hassle you will go through in court with a lawyer and everything might end up getting you what they already offered.. a new odometer with the correct miles attached..

well, that is what the service manager already offered to do. change the odometer back to 52,147 miles. i never asked him to do this. so basically, but not legally, an admission to fault/wrongdoing. i mean this situation here has obviously stemmed from the fight that i put up with them about the engine repair. the master tech that last replaced my pulley belt has been fired. does that mean much, prolly not. does all that has happened have a motive behind it, maybe so. my odometer coincidentally has 74,080 miles on it. that is 920 miles before my extended warranty expires. could their be a connection between the two? i think so. this car has had so many problems that i think they purposely set my odometer at that reading. but who really knows but them. i will fight for them to buy the car back at the very minimum.

i do appreciate your different points of view though. thanks.

[gtsaction]

I am not sure about the law in the land of cheese, but I believe odometer fraud is punishable by treble damages (3X).

http://www.odometertampering.com/Federal%20odometer%20criminal%20statute.htm

See Section E way down the page.

[futureceli]

i once read that somewhere too...i forgot where though. as far as the land of the cheese is concerned, it doesnt matter because this is a federal offense. good find!

http://clarkcountylegal.com/odometer_fraud.htm

[kuno]

See if you can get your local News station involved.. the bad exposure and the potential to lose lots of sales will put lots of pressure on them...

I'd be a prick and if this thing settles outside of court I would still contact the local news station and tell them about it just to fuc*k with them.

[futureceli]

Originally posted by kuno
See if you can get your local News station involved.. the bad exposure and the potential to lose lots of sales will put lots of pressure on them...

I'd be a prick and if this thing settles outside of court I would still contact the local news station and tell them about it just to fuc*k with them.


i would like to do this, but i will wait for further advice from my lawyer before i go out and make this case public and put them in shame.

[skittles13691]

First off, there is proof of odometer fraud. They put 21,000 miles on his car. He HAS the papers, given to him by the dealership! The point they put it up to....75k is so suspiciously close to the end of the warranty period that it was CLEARLY intentional.


If he accepts the new gauge cluster with the 51k miles on it, it will still be a little bit off what it should be. If he sold it, he would have to tell the new owner about the odometer being messed with, or he would be guilty of fraud. Would YOU buy a used car if you couldn't tell how many miles were on it? Especially a car that has had an engine rebuild TWICE in only three years??? I know I would pass it up.

DO THESE THING IMMEDIATLEY
1) Call the manager, and tell him that the only acceptable solution to you is to give you the value of your car before it was tampered with (the value of a 2000 celi with 50k miles), and they can keep the car. Tell him that you want a quick, painless solution that doesn't involve lawyers or the media.
2) Take an ad out in the classifides and try to get in contact with the other guy that had his odometer messed with.
3) Send the manager a letter via CERTIFIED mail (you can prove he recieved it in court) stating that replacing the gauge cluster is not good enough. I think he's going to replace it, and then claim that you agreed to it.

It doesn't matter if he replaces the cluster--cars loose value significantly if you can't tell exactly how many miles it has on it.

Be prepared to deal with more bull****. Start shopping around for lawyers (it can be difficult to get one on ANY case). DO THIS IMMEDIATLEY AS WELL: Talk to your girlfriend's uncle-although he is a criminal lawyer, I'm sure he can refer you to a good civil lawyer. Many times the answer to getting what you want is to have a lawyer send a nice little threatening letter on your behalf. It is better to negotiate with these mofo's since court is so long and expensive.

Good Luck! Keep us posted!!! ^_~

[richmds]

You could try to fight it but it would be a long fight and expensive with the end result only having principles and morals won. Lawyers are lawyers even if its your girlfriends uncle, he's is going to want money for a case that drags 1 year or longer and it may cost well more than the worth of the car. Since they agreed to get the odometer back to 50K instead of the 70K, sure there is motive, but they could just say "Oh we made a mistake, sorry. When we realized it we corrected it immediately."
In this instance we all know your right but the court will probably let it go since they righted their wrong.

Being that a master tech related to your issue was fired this gives them a Lee Harvey in this case. They could blame everything that went wrong on him, and when they ask what happened they will say we fired him and proceeded to correct the customers problems.

They are playing this whole thing well, legally they are fixing the problems and even went on to fire the person that supposedly messed up. Thats all the court will ask of them. You are obviously in the right all the way, but very rarely does a judge award money for frustration levels which if they did you should get a million.

Good Luck.

[CreepingJeff]

your lawyer will give you better advice than anyone on these boards can. good luck and keep us informed. i'm really interested to see how this pans out.

[futureceli]

Originally posted by richmds
You could try to fight it but it would be a long fight and expensive with the end result only having principles and morals won. Lawyers are lawyers even if its your girlfriends uncle, he's is going to want money for a case that drags 1 year or longer and it may cost well more than the worth of the car. Since they agreed to get the odometer back to 50K instead of the 70K, sure there is motive, but they could just say "Oh we made a mistake, sorry. When we realized it we corrected it immediately."
In this instance we all know your right but the court will probably let it go since they righted their wrong.

Being that a master tech related to your issue was fired this gives them a Lee Harvey in this case. They could blame everything that went wrong on him, and when they ask what happened they will say we fired him and proceeded to correct the customers problems.

Good Luck.

well the thing is that the tech and the service lady were fired before this happened or somewhere inbetween my engine rebuild. and as you stated, they tampered with the odometer and that can not be replaced or reset to any #. they are screwed! no matter what they try to do. and this could not have been a mistake. a work order has to be put in to the warratny company with reasons for needing a new gauge cluster with certain miles. they can not just order a cluster and set the miles themselves. atleast that's what i was told by another dealership. so some one intentionally sent in for a new cluster with that many miles on it. whatever it is, there has to be a paper trail with toyota warranty. or unless they are involved too. or another scenario could be that they swapped clusters with another celica on the lot. whatever the reasoning is, they committed fraud and they can set the odometer back to 0 miles and that still will not do it justice. i will see in a few days before i post any news regarding their legal position/excuse or what is going on.

[futureceli]

Originally posted by CreepingJeff
your lawyer will give you better advice than anyone on these boards can. good luck and keep us informed. i'm really interested to see how this pans out.


exaclty, and i will wait for his advice before i do anything further.

[skittles13691]

1) Take pics of the odometer at 70k, so he can't claim it was a mistake on paper

2) Send the manager a certified letter (can prove it was recieved in court-go down to your local post office to get one) IMMEDIATLEY stating that a new gauge cluster isn't good enough!!! It sounds like he's trying to replace it with one and claim you said it was OK.

3) Get your car outta their dealership!!! Why do you think they put it so close to the end of warrenty??? THEY MIGHT HAVE FOUND SOMETHING ELSE EXPENSIVE THAT WILL NEED FIXING SOON, AND THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO FIX IT. They've screwed you numerous times...don't give them another chance! (Or are you looking for a 3rd engine rebuild?).

4) Have you girlfriend's uncle refer you to a good civil lawyer.

5) Take out an add in the classifides-get in contact with the people who were screwed before.

Please do these things ASAP! Take it from someone who's been screwed. The manager's trying to cover his ass. Don't give him the time!!! If you wait too long, he'll be safe, and not have to give you a damn thing.

99 times out of 100, people back down once you get a lawyer involved. Many times all he has to do is send a nice threatening letter, and they give in. The dealership doesn't want a messy court case any more than you do. Don't worry about a court case until you actually get that far. If you have proof that they messed with the car (their documentation AND photos), and that they did "repairs" against your will (certified letter), they're screwed.

You're car is three years old, has had 2 engine rebuilds and odometer fraud. You can't sell it, and it's Toyota's fault. Make them give you the value of a 00 celica with 50k miles!

[KSilver2000]

Originally posted by skittles13691
1) Take pics of the odometer at 70k, so he can't claim it was a mistake on paper

2) Send the manager a certified letter (can prove it was recieved in court-go down to your local post office to get one) IMMEDIATLEY stating that a new gauge cluster isn't good enough!!! It sounds like he's trying to replace it with one and claim you said it was OK.

3) Get your car outta their dealership!!! Why do you think they put it so close to the end of warrenty??? THEY MIGHT HAVE FOUND SOMETHING ELSE EXPENSIVE THAT WILL NEED FIXING SOON, AND THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO FIX IT. They've screwed you numerous times...don't give them another chance! (Or are you looking for a 3rd engine rebuild?).

4) Have you girlfriend's uncle refer you to a good civil lawyer.

5) Take out an add in the classifides-get in contact with the people who were screwed before.

Please do these things ASAP! Take it from someone who's been screwed. The manager's trying to cover his ass. Don't give him the time!!! If you wait too long, he'll be safe, and not have to give you a damn thing.

99 times out of 100, people back down once you get a lawyer involved. Many times all he has to do is send a nice threatening letter, and they give in. The dealership doesn't want a messy court case any more than you do. Don't worry about a court case until you actually get that far. If you have proof that they messed with the car (their documentation AND photos), and that they did "repairs" against your will (certified letter), they're screwed.

You're car is three years old, has had 2 engine rebuilds and odometer fraud. You can't sell it, and it's Toyota's fault. Make them give you the value of a 00 celica with 50k miles!



:werd: :werd: :werd: :werd:


I can't add anything more to this to help you out. You seriously should just go get a lawyer now.

I've had my bad experiences with Toyota dealerships. Just to name one....they re-installed my TRD exhaust (which caused my back bumper to burn a little) because of a squeaky engine noise they didn't know how to fix (even after 6 visits!!!). Before I left my car, two of the technicians even said they hear the noise from the engine. But I come back and they tell me the noise originated from the exhaust somehow, then vibrated up the piping, and ended up making the engine squeak! WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?!?!?!?!? I contacted the BBB and they paid me to get a new rear bumper and paint it.

This is just one of the many. After this, I promised to myself I'll never buy another Toyota car in the future because of all the dumb, stupid a$$ mechanics at the dealers I've visited in the past.
Oh yea, and 1 dealer even had the guts to wait 6 hours to give me a courtesy shuttle ride even though they were going in and out picking up people from like 45 minutes away. Yes I know it's courtesy from the dealer, but shiet.

[audioize]

what skittles said is right, one of my good friends is a lawyer, I acually called him about this. He said in california, under the strict BAR laws (Bureau of Automotive Repairs) that this is highly illegal, and if the attorney sends some letters to the dealership saying that they are going to take this to court, he can ask for any amount of money that he wants. The dealership will settle, or the BAR will fine them BIG TIME if they find out (aka go to court about it)... So if there is ANY chance that the dealer will LOSE in court, they will settle for almost anything within reason.. 20k-50k.... it's rediculous what dealers will do not to let the public know how screwey they are.. -- straight from a lawyer...
good luck
-scott