Z28 Info for XteSy17

[RamAirLUVR]

All readers: Though I realize this is a Celica board, I recently read a thread from XteSy17 who claimed to beat a Z28 and I wanted to give you all some factual information concerning the F-body cars. Alot of the information in that thread concerning F-bod's was incorrect. This post is not intended to start a flame war, nor is it intended to make me sound like I have a lack of respect for any of the readers of this board. Simply put, this guy made alot of false assumptions concerning the performance of F-body cars and I would like all readers here who may not be familiar with the F-body to know exactly what the spec's are.

1. The LS1 Z28/Trans Am is listed by GM at 305 hp. This figure is grossly underrated. Most bone stock Z's and T/A's will dyno anywhere from 335-350 hp bone stock.

2. The Z28/T-A has a beast of a power and torque curve. Unlike what XTe stated when he said he would win a top-end run, my Z28 tops out at 90 MPH in second gear and there is no drop of power OR torque at high horsepower...the LS1 engine produces more HP and Torque at higher RPMs.

3. XTe stated the Z28/T-A can't go over 120 MPH. Actually, the speed limiter will not allow an F-bod to go over 162 or 166 MPH and the car will pull hard all the way there. The F-body really begins to shine at higher speeds. Remember, 2nd gear tops at 90. Also, alot of F-bod drivers reprogram their cars to eliminate the speed limiter.

I was glad to see most readers raise the BS flag on this one. As stated earlier, this is not an invite to a flame war. It is a respectful list of facts all of you can use when scouting out your next street race. Never hurts to know your competition.

Administrators...even though this is not a true race thread, please allow this to remain in this forum so XTe can see why most people raised the B.S. flag on him. Maybe then he will see why he started the flame war he did.

Thanks for reading and race 'em safely.

[AllV8]

Hey did you read that from LS1.com? I read that 2 and I just had to singup hehe

[PacerX]

Nice board, came over from www.LS1.com after reading the Celica GT vs. Z28 story.

Not gonna start a flame war, but want to thank the original poster of that kill for what has to be the funniest piece of internet posting in a LONG, LONG time.

120mph top end????

My sister will be happy to tell you about our little run up to 135 mph.

My chassis dyno - 308 rwhp DEAD STOCK, corrected, 1400 miles on the clock. That's 365ish at the flywheel kids.

Most of you guys seem pretty cool and have your B.S. meters working within normal operating parameters.

Good luck and watch out for the fuzz.



To the the original Celica poster with the Z28 kill....

Come to Papa and I'll blow the doors clean off of your car at any speed you care to pick.

[RamAirLUVR]

I did read that from LS1.com. That is the main auto board I read and saw it there. Looks like the original guy who posted was really misinformed and I wanted to RESPECTFULLY post here to clear up his misinformation.

[BillWS6Formula]

Welcome to the site. ALL car owners are welcome here and all that's asked of all members in return is to show a little respect (as you've done) in posting.

You'll find this is not your average import site - most people here try to be a little more openminded when it comes to cars and everthing related to 'em. Of course the Celica is the preferred ride of choice here but that's to be understood, it is a Celica site after all. And it certainly IS a nice car, but their owners don't wear blinders because of that fact.

[DJgerry]

Hello all, im a ls1 owner but im not here to start a flame war or direspect you guys. Ive got plenty of repect for imports. I post on supra forums & the 300zx boards all the time, so dont take this the wrong way i just think some people are a little missinformed.

The kill was posted on ls1.com so i shot over here & signed up but i couldn't post on that thread b/c it was closed. Im not doubting you killed some kind of camaro but not a ls1, unless the guy was retarded.

One thing you said was it was the newest style that came out in 97?. Sorry but the last restyle wich also got the ls1 engine was done in 98.
Then you say we top out at 110, are cars are speed limited at 160mph unless you buy the car with h rated tires then the limiter kick's at 117mph, still most come with Z rated.
Also i like to race from 60 to over 100mph b/c my car pulls really hard there as well as from a stop.

I also heard we have 14 sec cars not true for a ls1, most will run mid to low 13's & sometimes high 12's. I pulled my 13.8 at 103 having never driven at a track ever in fla high heat & humidity. Last night my friends 02 6spd with olny a lid went 13.4 at 108mph, he should have been niping at 12's but his sixty sucked.

Ls1's will put down anywhere from around 300rwhp to almost 330rwhp stock. 01-02 cars tend to be quicker than the latter 98-2000 cars due to the new ZO6 intake they have. I put dwon 299.4 rwhp & 314.4 rwtq stock, again in ****ty fla weather.

The difference between SS & WS6 cars vs Z28's & T/A's is not much. WS6 & SS pkgs are a ram air hood, tire & wheels, suspension tweaks & sometimes exhaust. They may be a tenth or so quicker but not buy much in a strait line, either a Z28 or SS will give you about the same run for your money.

Also we dont lose gobs of power with miles on our cars, our engines dont really start making alot of there power till every is settled in. Most guys cars start running faster when thay have about 15k on them, i have 30k on mine & it feels better than when it had 17!

Do not confuse the ls1 with the lt1 wich were 4th gen cars but ran from 93-97. These cars had the iron block lt1 with put out 275-285 hp to the crank & ran low 14's.

Hope all this info helps next time you run up against one of us at a light. Im a big car enthusiast & have respect for all kinds of cars, but if i ever want to talk trash about any car for whatever reason i make sure i get my facts right, you should do the same.

Your thread on ls1.com

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=38548

For more info on the ls1 visit ls1.com

Peace

[RamAirLUVR]

Thanks for the welcome! I didn't know this site was here, but now that I know I look forward to visiting here quite often!!

[DJgerry]

I posted on this subject too, here what i had to say.

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9233

[BillWS6Formula]

DJgerry welcome to the site as well. I merged your thread into this one for simplicity's sake and to keep it all under one topic.

[Bryan H]

im with you guys on some of this stuff. some of it is complete BS.
i used to have a celica. i did race z28's and vettes with it. it did have nitrous.

it did pull on a auto c5 above 80mph.

sometimes some of them are not bs stories. there are people with ls1's that have done 15.xx 1/4 mile times

not everyone can drive a car correctly. thats evident in some stories.

just take some of them in stride. no harm is ment by any of it

[DJgerry]

Originally posted by BillWS6Formula
DJgerry welcome to the site as well. I merged your thread into this one for simplicity's sake and to keep it all under one topic.
Thanks for the welcome, i was wondering where the post went, peace.

[DJgerry]

Originally posted by Bryan H
im with you guys on some of this stuff. some of it is complete BS.
i used to have a celica. i did race z28's and vettes with it. it did have nitrous.

it did pull on a auto c5 above 80mph.

sometimes some of them are not bs stories. there are people with ls1's that have done 15.xx 1/4 mile times

not everyone can drive a car correctly. thats evident in some stories.

just take some of them in stride. no harm is ment by any of it

I understand that, i wasn't upset over the kill, i just wanted to set some people strait on their car info, b/c some were way off base, thats all, peace.

[Bryan H]

okie dokie
have at it

not a problem here. info is good info

GM has a habit of underrating their cars now

[cilvrwing38]

ahhhhh helllpppp...ls1 people are attacking us!!!heheheh, yea i read the post at ls1.com too...boy i was laughing so hard almost had a heart attack

[y2k2z28]

If I had a 15.xxx 1/4 mi time I would be ashamed to post it.

[Karim]

welcome to the board fellas

Karim

[taa]

LOL...I cant belive you said you beat a LT1 LOL....You are popular, cause you made it to 2 boards, and we are laughing at you LOL. Celica's are nice cars, and are fun to drive. I know this cause my sister has one. She has the celica GT. I use to take it out every now and then cause i like the way it handles. But come on man, there is NO way in HELL it will beat a v8 in ANYWAY. Her car is so damn slow, but just really fun to drive. I am able to floor it around a corner cause it wont spin out easy. I use to have a LS1, but now have a mercedes, and my mercedes will beat the HELL out of a GT celica. It's a high 13 second benz. If I can KILL my sisters GT, and I only beat LT1's by a couple cars, I know your story is pure BS.

You know, celica's are nice cars, but the people like you that own them, and claim WAY to muh shi*, you give them a bad name. There are also people that have LS1's that give us a bad name, claiming they beat a stock lambo.....you know, we all have common sence. Even some of your Celica friends are saying you cant beat a LT1, and those are the people that give celicas a good name. Admiting to something you cant beat. I cant beat a LS1 in my benz, and when I had a LS1, i never said i could beat a lamborghini when i was stock.

Sorry celica guys on the fourm, i just had to post this...You guys have nice cars, and oneday i would love to buy one and make it TT. They are very fun to drive.

take care

[Intelman34]

He said 1997 Z28's top out at 110-120mph.... well as an OWNER of a 1997 Z28, I beg to differ. While I have never been stupid enough to try it, I am 100% positive my car could do well over 120mph

If the punk is reading this... i have 2 words for ya... BRING IT.


Don't get me wrong. Celica's are sweet looking cars that are pretty quick. Its just when B.S. gets thrown into the mix... then I get angry.

[y2k2z28]

My speedo marks 155 and I have gone past that, my guess would be around 160 to 165.

[fastwhipyo]

Ya, no celica stock will touch a newer LS1 Fbody, but I believe more than one person has run what....13.7 or so with only Ex/CAI/50 shot, I believe that is better than one of the guys with a modded Z28 posted above. And wait till the supercharger hits the market, That will make for a good run against a stock SS, should be interesting, 285HP at 2550lbs to 350hp at 3500lbs (or so), celica has better HP to weight ratio (less drivetrain loss too), but lacks traction and gearing. O ya, and I also believe that a 2001 SS is around 30grand, GTS 6 speed with supercharger kit would run about $28000, so they would both cost about the same. Guess its all about who is driving though, I cant beat 14.9 with mine with CAI/EX but that was in 100 degree weather at 2000 feet (gtech, could be wrong also i guess). All in all they both serve their purposes well, the SS is a great drag car but wouldnt beat a geo metro (well...maybe a metro, hehe) on a windy race track, and the celica stock wouldnt put up much of a fight against a dodge dart in the 1/4 mile. But modded its a whole other story, when you mix mods into the game anything can beat anything no matter what the cars are.

[Bryan H]

lets set this straight
13.7 2 104 with WAI {warm air intake} exhaust. and a 50-55 shot on street tires with a 2.5 60ft

13.12 @ 106 with a 1.9 60ft on same power setup WITH drag radials

1 tenth off the 60ft is equal to at least 2 tenths at the end

this run was done within 10 mins of each other. so temp changes and other thingies are not that much of a variable

the time still stands. i alas don't have the car anymore. totaled it
but i do have a 4 banger with "torque" now so to speak

but hey. i fully understand where you f-bod guys are commin from. i know what those cars run stock and modded. im sorry top speed is well above 120 mph. the ls1 has some wicked top end if opened up right.

im done posting on this subject. it has been beat to death before. no point in beating it more

[cilvrwing38]

im still proud of it...and remember I DONT DRIVE A V8....so 15's in 4 cylinder car is respectable...

[racinjason]

Welcome aboard guys.

We all gotta remember that there are bone head owners and drivers that own every type of car imaginable. And we all can be boneheaded from time to time. But don't let that put your mindset that all Celica or all owners of a certain type of car are like you described above. The magority of Celica owners and other import owners are very aware of the capabilities of an Fbody, power underratings, etc.

Bryan I am going for the board record this year. Looking for a 50shot, header, LSD, and some DR's and I'm set for a 12 second pass at Cecil!!! It's all about power management. ;)

[AllV8]

Just curious..why do alot of 4banger car owners compare there car to an SS? The SS isn't the fastest camaro there is by any means. I have beaten quite a few of them when I had nothing done to it..Again just curious

[racinjason]

Cause it's used as a benchmark. Most people I have ever talked to benchmark thier cars against stock Fox bodied 5.0's. If your slower than that your slow. If you can beat it your fast.

[Bryan H]

Jason. have at it man!
if you need help with piddly crap or anything,. e-mail me d00d

i use vipers and ZO6 vettes as a benchmark to beat on a weekly basis

they no like me no more
=o(

[O2BQIK]

Man...i wander off for awhile and another Celica vs Z28 thread pops up!

I wanted to say two things:

1. LS1's don't dyno 330-350 rwhp stock. Let's not exaggerate. It's true that some of the 01 and 02 model cars are hitting 330 at the wheels stock, but that is NOT the norm. Most are 290-320 at the wheels depending on the year.

2. I'm laughing my ass off at XteSy17 when he says that even though Z28's will run 14.1-13.0 in the 1/4 when stock, and his car runs 16's stock, that's irrelevant because you weren't racing the 1/4. Got news for ya, a car that will do the 1/4 3 full seconds faster is not gonna just drop dead as soon as it passes the traps! LoL! Besides, top end power is why they add the MPH to 1/4 mile times. Stock Celica GT's are hitting what, 85-88 mph in the 1/4 probably? Stock LS1s are doing 104-109 mph, and stock LT1s did 98-102 mph.

But you can run my slow domestic too if ya want ;)

[larryd]

well.. Im a little late on this one.. anyhow welcome guys.. i run this place.. and if I had read that on ls1.com I woulda laughed my ass of as well..

I used to own a Celica GTS 6spd and when I had only i/e I tried to race a few LS1s.. BAD IDEA..heeh my best friend in Florida and his buddys went at it with me a couple times.. they gave me props for trying as I coudlnt stay anywhere near them.. the two cars are just completely different when it comes to speed.. ofcourse with nitrous or some other method of forced iduction comes into play things could change.. I trapped 106mph in the Celica with a 50 shot.. so anything is possible.. but anyhow, as i said before.. welcome to nc.org :)

[BpuTacoma]

can i run your slow domestic O2BQIK ? your kinda out of my league here, your 393 rwhp compared to my 330 ish rwhp is too much to overcome. but i'll run yah.

geez damn LS1's ! good thing they stopped making them, too many as it is.

[O2BQIK]

Originally posted by BpuTacoma
can i run your slow domestic O2BQIK ? your kinda out of my league here, your 393 rwhp compared to my 330 ish rwhp is too much to overcome. but i'll run yah.

geez damn LS1's ! good thing they stopped making them, too many as it is.

Sure thing! You might just come out ahead right now, cause my stock clutch is giving up under this torque and I don't have the $$ to replace it. But we can sure as heck give it a shot and if I don't beat you good enough then you have to give me a second try once I get that clutch ;)

[MicaGTS]

Sounds like the lad was using "imagery" in the results. LOL

My wife drives the GTS in the family and I get to wring it out every now and then. I am blown away at what it will do and the turning radius sends my glasses to the side of my nose. Amazing litle rascal. So, you can take me at my word when I tell you a GT can't hang with my other car. Not when it was stock and absolutely not now.

At least this site has people that talk cars and not "brand Love". I love a fast car. I don't care how it comes wrapped. Honda, Toyota, Viper, Ford, just make it fast and I'll talk your ear off about it.

My daily driver is shown in my SIG.

E:)

[O2BQIK]

Nice car there Mica ;)

[BpuTacoma]

Ouch !!, i don't wanna run into you. nice page setup.
makes me want a Ls1 TT :eek:

:thumbup:

[Maelfyn]

Holy ****. I think a good dozen ls1 guys just registered. lol :monkey:

[larryd]

damn, nice car Mica.. my buddy is getting ready to put a turbo on his Ram Air.. cant imagine what that car is gonna be like as I need a big ass turbo to just be able to beat him now :)

[RamAirLUVR]

Thanks for all the welcomes guys and just to clarify my HP ratings in the post that started this thread were flywheel not rear wheel. I didn't mean to start an LS1 invasion here (OOPS!). You guys have a great site. Never really looked at the Celica before out on the street but now that I know they have just as many lovers as my F-Bod I've been checking them out more here lately and I can now see how they have such a loyal following. My Z28 is black with red emblems, license plate "SOOFAST". If you're ever in FL and line 'em up next to me expect a courteous "thumbs up" regardless of the outcome.

[larryd]

where at in Florida?

[RamAirLUVR]

I am in the military assigned to Eglin AFB. It's in the panhandle dead smack between Pensacola and Panama City. Do you make it down to this area often? If so look me up!!

[larryd]

never been down that far.. Im going to Jacksonville next week.. my buddy lives there.. he has an 02 Ram Air that he is putting a turbo kit on in the end of summer :)

[fastest1]

Fak that, you LS1 guys stay dammit, u have all been cool and polite, stay so we can learn about your rides too, seriously.

There is alot to learn at the different things large and small engine owners do to their cars differently (and more importantly the same) that net interesting results in both camps. I for one would like to see some more large block owners in here, don;t want to lose the identity of the site, but a little different perspective on things is always good.

[O2BQIK]

Originally posted by fastest1
Fak that, you LS1 guys stay dammit, u have all been cool and polite, stay so we can learn about your rides too, seriously.

There is alot to learn at the different things large and small engine owners do to their cars differently (and more importantly the same) that net interesting results in both camps. I for one would like to see some more large block owners in here, don;t want to lose the identity of the site, but a little different perspective on things is always good.

Thanks! Some of us have been here for awhile! Always glad to have bretheren show up tho :)

[LIL SS]

I went to reply to the last post but it was closed.. Didn't know of this board either. Never really looked at the Celica as a 1/4 mile car but more of a tight track car.. But hey, everyone does something a little different right..
Someone mentioned they would like to know more about the LS1's.. What ever questions you have I'm sure can be answered by some of the guys around here. If not, You can check out LS1.com or other LS1 boards.. Take it easy..

[fastest1]

let me put it this way, after what a T/A did to me the other night you cannot not be interested in the 8's.

[AllV8]

Originally posted by larryd
well.. Im a little late on this one.. anyhow welcome guys.. i run this place.. and if I had read that on ls1.com I woulda laughed my ass of as well..

I used to own a Celica GTS 6spd and when I had only i/e I tried to race a few LS1s.. BAD IDEA..heeh my best friend in Florida and his buddys went at it with me a couple times.. they gave me props for trying as I coudlnt stay anywhere near them.. the two cars are just completely different when it comes to speed.. ofcourse with nitrous or some other method of forced iduction comes into play things could change.. I trapped 106mph in the Celica with a 50 shot.. so anything is possible.. but anyhow, as i said before.. welcome to nc.org :)

Thanks..you seem like a nice guy. Nice board by the way. I'll have fun checking this board out

[static]

Looks like the big guns showed up in force huh???? Welcome guys! And I hope you stick around and visit us often! Great to have new faces around here who drive totally different cars..

Good to have u...

[O2BQIK]

Originally posted by static
Great to have new faces around here who drive totally different cars..

Good to have u...

I agree, it's all about the diversity :)

http://carmeet.dfwstangs.net/o2bqikbanner.jpg

[fxbody]

Hey fastwhipyo....just curious why you think an ss is not good at taking corners. My buddys ss can fly around them very quickly.
Anyone see that road and track not too long ago where they compared 2 cars of the same brand? there was an nsx Vs an S2000 and an SS versus the Zo6....The ss beat the road course time of the s2000 and was very close to the nsx. These cars are NOT just strait line performers, they handle well too.

[bxmart9]

I agree with fxbody. My camaro may not have independent rear suspension but can handle none the less. I have had my z28 six spd for about 3 years now and want to get a celica when I sell it. I got into celicas after going for a ride in my freinds civic si. Acelleration was very inpresive for a 4 banger with only 1.6 litres and hella fun to drive. I loved the sound of his aem intake and got a slp cold air for my z. I got a slight power increase and a little bit of sound but nothing compared to these 4 bangers. I have test drove a 6 spd gt-s and have found that it would not have a chance against my z28 with lt1. I have raced my freind with the si and will leave him about 10 cars behind to 60. I'm tired of the torqe monster though and want something light and fun to drive, and the celica is just that.

[static]

Originally posted by bxmart9
I agree with fxbody. My camaro may not have independent rear suspension but can handle none the less. I have had my z28 six spd for about 3 years now and want to get a celica when I sell it. I got into celicas after going for a ride in my freinds civic si. Acelleration was very inpresive for a 4 banger with only 1.6 litres and hella fun to drive. I loved the sound of his aem intake and got a slp cold air for my z. I got a slight power increase and a little bit of sound but nothing compared to these 4 bangers. I have test drove a 6 spd gt-s and have found that it would not have a chance against my z28 with lt1. I have raced my freind with the si and will leave him about 10 cars behind to 60. I'm tired of the torqe monster though and want something light and fun to drive, and the celica is just that.

FYI, It's 1.8 Liters... small correction, but we don't have much liters to spare so we have to fight for every bit! :)

I'm sure the camaro's handle better than people perceive, especially the SS version... but you have to admit that the car does get into trouble if god help you hit a bump in a turn... I know because I speak from experience, my GF has a 95 camaro, and we almost killed our selves once with pretty much formal driving through a turn..

[bxmart9]

I was talking about the si having 1.6 litres not the celica. And yeah your right about bump while in a hard turn, it won't stick and gets squirelly real quick if the pavement isn't smooth.

[O2BQIK]

Originally posted by static


I'm sure the camaro's handle better than people perceive, especially the SS version... but you have to admit that the car does get into trouble if god help you hit a bump in a turn... I know because I speak from experience, my GF has a 95 camaro, and we almost killed our selves once with pretty much formal driving through a turn..

You're right, the live rear axle + all that torque can make for squirrely circumstances in hard cornering if you hit a bump while accelerating. The solution I use is to simply lift off the throttle a touch over the bump, and then resume. Without large bumps in the corner though, my SS has outhandled everyone I've gone into a corner with. Mind you I can't seem to get a Z06 driver to pony up, but other than that :)

Also notable handling-wise is that the Camaros have several levels of suspension:

Base V6
Base Z28
Base SS
Bilstein SS - rides lower, somewhat firmer
1LE SS - very firm; designed for road racing and is harsh for daily driving.

The Firebird crew has similar setups available to them. I'm not sure what ASC has available on the WS6's but SLP has the same 3 suspension options on the Firehawk as what are on the SS.