rev limiter questions/rumors

[amicek]

can i get the straight story about the rev limiter in the 2002 celica gt-s? is it a FACT that it is really lower than the previous model year? how much will this effect the car's performance? what are the reasons for this? is it really the rev limiter that has changed rpms or the has the point at which the vvtl-i kicks in changed? (those aren't the same thing are they?) :confused:
i heard on this board something only a rumor about a vvtl-i controller, but that would change the whole picture. is this rumored rev limiter change a good move or a bad move by totyota?
also, have the incidents of blown engines due to misshifts decreased for the 2002 model year or is it too early to tell? i've been looking all over for this information and haven't really found it. anybody with facts or an informed opinion would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

[Revlimiter01]

Yes it is true tha the revlimiter has decreased, I beleive it has gone down from around 8300 to 7800-8000 (I can't remember).
As far as the car's performance is concerned, well with the lower fuel cut-off, it will be much harder to stay in the second cam then it has been in the 2000 and 2001 model years. As far as I know, lift still kicks in at about 6K rpms and hasn't changed for the 2002 model year. So to generally answer your question, yes the car's performance will be affected negatively.

I think the reason Toyota did this was to help decrease the amoutn of damage done to an engine on a miss-shift although the revlimiter usually isn't able to help on a miss-shift. Maybe the lower RPMs would cause less damage than in the previous model years. That my guess, somone correct me if I'm wrong.

I would say it is too soon to tel whether the redesigned shifter and revlimiter change would result in a fewer amount of miss-shifts. Only time can tell.

On a performance side of the argument I'd say the move was bad on Toyota's part since the newer models years will be slower since they can't stay in the second cam. But, from a business point of view, this may have been in a good move if it really does decrease the amount of engines blown due to a miss-shift. Although it be just as bad if they didn't sell as many GT-Ss due to the change in performance.

That's may take on the whole situation. Hope it helped, someone correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

[yakkosmurf]

As far as we've been able to tell so far, the above information is correct. We haven't gotten many numbers from 2002 6-speed owners in the quartermile to verify the assumption that the 2002 will be slower. Any 2002 6-speed owners want to shine some light on this?

[Auto[BoT]_GTS]

its damn true 02 gts with cai and exhaust ran slower than my 00 gts with just a cai. 16.09/00gts-16.33/02 gts dont laugh at my times if any of you raced at lacr (la county raceway) youd get similiar times due to the 3000ft elevation.

[yakkosmurf]

But the 2002 auto GTS has the same rev limiter as the 2000-2001. The difference is in the 6-speed.

[amicek]

wait a second - the rev limiter still cuts fuel at over 8000 rpm? but the 6 speed has a different set up or was tweaked?
whats up?

[Revlimiter01]

No, the 6 speed no longer cuts off at over 8000 rpm, this is a change for the 2002 model year to help reduce the risk of blowing an engine severely on a miss-shift. By reducing the revlimiter, drivers will not be able to bring up the rpms as high as they used to (duh) and thus if they miss-shift at a lower rpm, it will do less damage. An example would be shifting in 4th gear at 8200 rpms into second gear will cause more damage than shifting from 4th gear at 7800 rpms into 2nd gear. See what I'm saying?

The 2002 auto on the other hand, from what I gather, still has the 8300 rpm cutoff since you can't miss-shift in an auto, and if you can then you shouldn't be driving :D

[Blue Bomber]

Didn't the ratios for 1st and/or 2nd gear change, too? I remember someone going in to get their tranny fixed, and when they got the car back, they could shift 1st to 2nd at 7800 and stay in the second cam without powershifting. He had a pre '02 GT-S, so he had the best of both worlds: a high rev limiter and optimized gear ratios.

[amicek]

damn. so should i buy a 2001 used for the higher rev limiter?

[Returned-M Spec]

The 6 speed use to cut out at about 8250 RPM- 8300 RPM. I've got a aftermarket ECU on my car, which is set to rev to 8500 RPM's.

Thats sad that Toyota has decided to lower to rev limit on the new 6 speeds to cover their own backs. But what can you do, when people drive and mis shift their Celica's and it cost Toyota big dollars to fix em up?

Jason

[GTS808]

Originally posted by Revlimiter01
The 2002 auto on the other hand, from what I gather, still has the 8300 rpm cutoff since you can't miss-shift in an auto, and if you can then you shouldn't be driving :D

The GTS auto never ad a 8300rpm feul cut off. It's always been 7800rpms. I have a 2000 GTS auto. My friend has a 2001 GTS auto he also hits the cut off at 7800.

[Jake_VVTL-i]

That is not true. I have a 2000 auto GTS, and the limiter is 8300.

[t2000gts]

your tach is off. every GTS Auto has 7800-7900rpm cutoff (zooq ran the SAFC on it, and got values ranging from 7850 to 7890).

go redline your car right now and look where the needle is when it's bouncing off the rev limiter.

i have zillions of videos of my car at http://subzero.mine.nu/celica/ (they start with autoGTS*.avi)

[neil]

Do you think there will be something out there to remove the revlimit anytime soon?

[t2000gts]

from what i understand, a piggyback device would not be able to accomplish this.

you'd need a new open-ended ECU replacement, like Apex'i Power FC, but which isn't in US or for US celicas...El Prototypes was supposed to be working on something, but i dunno what happened. they wanted to make a piggy back vvtl-i controller first (even though replacement ECU is much more 'attainable' just harder to do) and didn't want to do the new ECU until after the controller...

maybe we should all e-mail them and just ask them for ECUs that allow us to tune/mess with everything. (cuz some of us will tune stuff, others will just mess with stuff :p)

[neil]

So basically I should just go for the last 2 2001's in my area? :D

[t2000gts]

just don't misshift :D

i'd personally go for 2002 and swap in a 2001 ECU from a junked celica if you can find one. but i dunno if that'd work (it should)

[DaGriftr]

The tach could be off because they usually are but my rev-limit on my 2000 auto is 8100.

[NtenceGTS]

I have a2002 6-speed gts.Performance wise all I have put on the car ia a trd exhaust. I pulled a 14.65 at 99.1 today on my G tech.And yes My rev limiter is at 8.Will n e one send me a link to a sight that has the devise I need to higher that?

[Jake_VVTL-i]

Originally posted by t2000gts
your tach is off. every GTS Auto has 7800-7900rpm cutoff (zooq ran the SAFC on it, and got values ranging from 7850 to 7890).

go redline your car right now and look where the needle is when it's bouncing off the rev limiter.

i have zillions of videos of my car at http://subzero.mine.nu/celica/ (they start with autoGTS*.avi)

I don't know, you could be right, but i think if my tach was off, then my second cam would kick in around 5800 more or less. But it don't, my vvtl-i kicks in at 6000 just like it should. i don't think that my tach is off, just my opinion. maybe i'm wrong, i don't know.

[GTS808]

Originally posted by Jake_VVTL-i


I don't know, you could be right, but i think if my tach was off, then my second cam would kick in around 5800 more or less. But it don't, my vvtl-i kicks in at 6000 just like it should. i don't think that my tach is off, just my opinion. maybe i'm wrong, i don't know.

When you shift in manual mode, where does your RPMs drop to when you shift at your feul cutoff? If I press the upshift at 7500 RPMs and it will shift at 7800 and drop to 5000.

[DaGriftr]

Actually the revlimit definately is 8100 on the auto gt-s because when I dynoed it it went to 8100. In automatic mode though it does shift you at 7800.

[GTS808]

Originally posted by DaGriftr
Actually the revlimit definately is 8100 on the auto gt-s because when I dynoed it it went to 8100. In automatic mode though it does shift you at 7800.

Auto mode shifts you at 7500.

[Juliusczr2]

I just want to know if it is possible to swap a 2002 for a 2001 ECU and get the same results. I will buy one and test it out. Let me find it and I will post it soon. If anyone has some information on any of this, let us all know. And for the 2002 GT-S, it is between 7900-8000. but if the ECU allows me to go to 8200-8300, then when I shift, it puts me back in the lift.

[Aracheon]

Holy sh!t.. this thread is OLD..

I always thought you could swap ECU's between the 7th gen years.. but I have a 2000, so it doesn't matter. :gap: