Scored Rod Bearings on GTS...Over Rev...

[RenoCelica]

Went to SF just two weeks ago. I started hearing a noise like my rod bearing were going out. When I opened the hood, it sounded like it was in the valves. So, still under warranty I took it into the local dealer here in Reno. They pulled the motor and stripped it down, being they couldn't find anything wrong in the upper engine. As they pulled the rod bears and the rods out I watched as three supervisors and three mechanics stood in awe. Each rod bearing was scored only down the middle and the entire bearing looked copper in color.

Well, to make a long story short. What is happing with the celica GTS or 2zzge engine is, when I was racing at the track I was punching the rpm's up to 8200 to keep the car in the power band. At that high rpm the crank wants to bust were each rod connects to the crank. So, at 8200 rpm's the crank starts to flex causing the bearing to squeeze out the oil and caused friction burn straight down the bearings. That sucked. They only thing they said that saved the engine was I was running Castrol Syntec 5w-30 oil.

Oh..and they covered it under the powertrain warranty. So, no cost to me, and they are being cool about and are putting my new clutch kit, flywheel and pulley kit in while the engine is out.

I guess some times a bad thing can be good thing.

[autxr]

So you drive it hard and the rod/crank bearings wear out. No biggie, sounds like a normal engine to me. That's why the rod and crank bearings are soft, they are sacrificial parts.

In the real racing world people will replace rod bearings several times a race season, yet people think that it should be different in their street car.

Glad your car is getting fixed, thanks for reminding everyone that wear and tare is to be expected when teh cars are driven hard!

Scott

[RenoCelica]

I didn't drive my car past 7800 until I learned from watching everybody else that you could keep the car in the power band if you push the barrier. I am just suprised that I didn't here of other rod bearings going out before mine. I don't look forward to the days that the warranty runs out, and the work is relied on myself.

[00 scrub]

hmm you were using syntec 5w-30 (I don't belive it is a group 4 and 5 oil), next time try a heavier weight or at least more shear stable type oil maybe redline 10w-30 or some 40 weight oil. BTW what track did you go to? I'm sure the tracks out in Nevada get VERY hot and the stupendously high oil temps the 2zz-ge can reach without a cooler could have contributed to the destroyed bearings.

[TRD Liquid Silver]

next time try a heavier weight

i was about to say the same thing. if your hitting the track on a regular basis try 15w50. when i ran my car at the streets of willow i put mobil syn 15w50 for that one time and a week later i put back mobil synthetic 5w30.


http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_15W-50.asp (http://http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_15W-50.asp)

[gnes100]

haha make sure that there engine is full of oil too when racin at a track .. even one quart down will hurt hard core .... (dumb presonal experience)

[CIN]

heat

[RenoCelica]

I do run 10w-30 when I am racing up here. The track temps hit between 105-130. I did run a serious of races with 5w-30 though. I guess you learn from experince, or mistakes. I'm the serious racer. I'm not into the street racing having two kids, but I have thrown down a few on the streets. I am more into the track, I come prepaired having an extra engine on the floor for when my warranty runs out, or they choose not to repair it.

Thanks for the info on the oil.

[t2000gts]

i recommend royal purple racing series....it is fantastic with heat.

[RenoCelica]

I was going to run Royal Purple, but Summit Racing stopped carring it. I guess I will have to find another dealer. What wait do you recommend?

[t2000gts]

www.northernautoparts.com

try Racing 21 (5w30 viscosity) first, and monitor how that does for you at the track next time.

maybe skip to the next viscosity level though...100-130 F temperatures are uh....up there. but 21 was used in NASCAR so i think it would be enough. it won't stop your rod bearings from wearing out, but it's better than the oil you were using before.

[00 scrub]

With temperatures like that you should be looking at oil coolers like Raymunds. If you want even more (and very good) advice you should head over to www.bobistheoilguy.com .

[RenoCelica]

Thanks for the info.

I will try the Royal Purlple 21. I'm 4 weeks out before my next race, so the 5w-30 should be good for the fall temps.

[unknown]

hey you can try your local Napa stores for royal purple. i know mine is now carrying royal purple which is a great thing IMO>

[xNiNjAx]

Switch to some synthetic oil for sure. I just use Mobil 1 Synthetic since I can just buy it at the local Walmart...if they had some Royal Purple oil, I'd prob get that instead.

[EasyC]

wouldnt an oil cooler prevent this?

[Keyshawn]

Interesting. Thanks for the info, RenoCelica. I wonder if this will become a common problem with the 2zz, since so many people who drive aggressively take this engine up to 8200 rpms on a regular basis. Definitely something to look out for.

[unknown]

Originally posted by EasyC
wouldnt an oil cooler prevent this?


it should. kind of makes you wonder if its not oil starvation or something too? the crank is 45mm rod journals and thats pretty good size i dont see where its gonna flex anymore than say a 4age with 42mm rod journals. the 4age motors have been known to turn 9k+ and live.

[00 scrub]

I have a feeling that this was a combination of oil heat and/or starvation at the track. With the super high ambient temps at tracks here on the west coast it is easy to get the oil to 300* +. With most non Group IV an V synthetics they will break down at those temperatures. Oil starvation could be a problem as well.

[xspwolf]

Originally posted by autxr
So you drive it hard and the rod/crank bearings wear out. No biggie, sounds like a normal engine to me. That's why the rod and crank bearings are soft, they are sacrificial parts.

In the real racing world people will replace rod bearings several times a race season, yet people think that it should be different in their street car.

Glad your car is getting fixed, thanks for reminding everyone that wear and tare is to be expected when teh cars are driven hard!

Scott


:bling:

looking over the posts, i dont think anyone got reminded at all...

[hybridcelica]

Originally posted by unknown
it should. kind of makes you wonder if its not oil starvation or something too? the crank is 45mm rod journals and thats pretty good size i dont see where its gonna flex anymore than say a 4age with 42mm rod journals. the 4age motors have been known to turn 9k+ and live. well said!the 4age can spin that kind of rpm with no problem,so the idea about oil starvation is very feasable.

[gts24]

Originally posted by hybridcelica
well said!the 4age can spin that kind of rpm with no problem,so the idea about oil starvation is very feasable.

holy old ass topic batman.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by unknown
it should. kind of makes you wonder if its not oil starvation or something too? the crank is 45mm rod journals and thats pretty good size i dont see where its gonna flex anymore than say a 4age with 42mm rod journals. the 4age motors have been known to turn 9k+ and live.
You'd think. My 4A-GE has seen 8k rpm a number of times and after 250k miles still runs fine.

[143hawaii]

I'd go with a cooler, get yourself some gauges and you'll notice Toyota skimped on the 1zz/2zzs in this department in the US.

Everywhere else they got the point. European 1ZZ Spyders come stock with a water cooled oil cooler. Lotus also saw it by putting in twin air coolers stock for their 2ZZ.

[BrianGTS]

yeah Id definetly get a cooler. You could probably get a Greddy sandwich adapter for the oil filter and run lines off of that for the cooler. Good luck.

[hybridcelica]

Originally posted by gts24
holy old ass topic batman. who said this was a topic for discussion "JOKER"!
i was just commenting on what the guy above said concerning the problem and the anology he made with the 2zzge as compared to the 4age.( the motor it was made to replace!)