2005 US Elise to utilize 2ZZ-GE (making 190hp) and C60 6spd tranny

[onigami]

according to this month's Car and Driver, page 92.

"We've heard it all before, but this time Lotus says it's set in stone. The lovely little Elise will go on sale in America next spring as a 2005 model. The U.S. car will be powered by a version of the 1.8-liter Toyota four-banger found in the Celica GT-S. It will make 190 horsepower and come with Toyota's six-speed manual transmission. The company expects to sell 2500 of them a year for about $40,000 through 37 dealers. It will be slightly heavier than its Euro counterpart but will still be a featherweight at about 1800 pounds. Air conditioning will be standard [option on Euro models] ... [stuff about death of Espirt]."

[BadTOYO]

this is good news, the 2ZZ gets more exposure...
R

[SlasherX]

40 grand?!?!!?

screw that.

[onigami]

I imagine it drives like a Miata but with power at the top end. I'd say it's worth the 20k more than a Miata. Oh yeah. I'd imagine that like the Euro version, there won't be interior carpetting or a radio.

I sincerely hope that Lotus choses not to use the stock open-diff in the powertrain setup and use some kind of LSD. The ITR powered Elises had a LSD.

[WillyK]

I bet those Lotus owners are going to love the broken lift bolts, snapped rods, oiling problems, ****ty belt tensioners, bad syncros, etc.

I wouldn't pay 40K for it just because of the engine and transmission being put in it. I'd rather have the one with the Type R engine and tranny.

[Bi-Mon-Sci-Fi-Con]

Originally posted by WillyK
I bet those Lotus owners are going to love the broken lift bolts, snapped rods, oiling problems, ****ty belt tensioners, bad syncros, etc.

I wouldn't pay 40K for it just because of the engine and transmission being put in it. I'd rather have the one with the Type R engine and tranny.


I feel your pain

[00 scrub]

I'm sure ti'll drive better than a miata :) it weighs less (at least if the US one doesn't get bloated. I really hope that Lotus and Toyota solved the oiling and oil cooling problems with it before they bring it over. I wonder what they changed internally or electrically to get the extra 10hp. Hopefully the engine will now be smoother with less of a jump at 6k. Better ratios (closer) on the C60 would go a long ways, lets hope they changed that too.

[k2snownsk8]

Originally posted by WillyK
I bet those Lotus owners are going to love the broken lift bolts, snapped rods, oiling problems, ****ty belt tensioners, bad syncros, etc.

I wouldn't pay 40K for it just because of the engine and transmission being put in it. I'd rather have the one with the Type R engine and tranny.

:werd:

[CelicaLicious]

Originally posted by WillyK
I bet those Lotus owners are going to love the broken lift bolts, snapped rods, oiling problems, ****ty belt tensioners, bad syncros, etc.

I wouldn't pay 40K for it just because of the engine and transmission being put in it. I'd rather have the one with the Type R engine and tranny.

exactly.. i would take the ITR engine elise over the 2zz elise anyday...

[majesty]

[rsx owner] shoulda used a k20a2, people want hondata... [/rsx owner]

[All_MTR_GTS]

well the good news is now maybe they will make some good stuff for our cars now like cams!!!

[larryd]

Originally posted by WillyK
I bet those Lotus owners are going to love the broken lift bolts, snapped rods, oiling problems, ****ty belt tensioners, bad syncros, etc.

I wouldn't pay 40K for it just because of the engine and transmission being put in it. I'd rather have the one with the Type R engine and tranny.


I agree.. as much fun as the car will be with a 2ZZ in it I wuold much rather prefer the Type R engine as its alot more reliable so it seems.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

how about an F20c in there?

[BRAK]

OMG you peeps b i t c h about EVERYTHING and have negative comments on EVERYTHING!!
You all sound like women.

[Lomeinhu]

Originally posted by BRAK
OMG you peeps b i t c h about EVERYTHING and have negative comments on EVERYTHING!!
You all sound like women.

I'll have to agree. You might as well be saying you'd rather have any car with a Type R engine over the 2zz in it. Appreciate the fact that Lotus has enough faith in the engine to use it. They're not blind to the possibility of using the Type R engine, and yet they picked the 2zz. Good news for us. That's all it is. Good news for us.

[Need4Spd]

amen

[Keyshawn]

This topic makes me wonder why Toyota didn't have the good sense to simply have a higher-trim MR2 Spyder with a 2zz engine. Sure, it's not quite as light as the Elise, but it still would've been a kick a$$ roadster that regular peeps could actually afford.

[RevHappyGTS]

Originally posted by BRAK
OMG you peeps b i t c h about EVERYTHING and have negative comments on EVERYTHING!!
You all sound like women.

:werd:

[RevHappyGTS]

Its the negative attitude like this that will get us 2zz owners nothing from the aftermarket.

[EuGeNiLe GTS]

maybe theyve all come to realize the truth.. thus the reason for hte ngeative attitudes and bitchin?

[Redline]

Originally posted by EuGeNiLe GTS
maybe theyve all come to realize the truth.. thus the reason for hte ngeative attitudes and bitchin?

And what truth is that?

The R was a limited production car. How can you compare its reliability with a full production car not to mention with a higher compression ratio. I'm not saying that the 2zz-ge is a faultless engine, but it's not a bad engine. The elise is a famous track-day car and it is pretty much a race car out of the box. The mr2 spyder pretty much runs GT-S times with the 1zz. Put that in 1800lbs elise and you probably have a low-mid 14 second car. The elise will not be slow in the first 6000rpms because of its light weight. And it will really fly after 6k.

The Exige (190hp elise) runs 0-60 in like 4 seconds (from what I remember reading). There is no need to mod the 2zz motor at those speeds. The only questionable part for me is how they are handling the peaky powerband. I couldn't imagine hitting lift on a turn with a 1800lbs RWD car.

[BadTOYO]

right... just like toyota is selling about 40,000 celicas a year and only what? a handful of people which are having problems with their abused, not-driven-properly cars are bitching like little 6 year old girls about synchros because they can't handle an extremely precise 6 speed close ratio gearbox to begin with (go see how many TSB's are issued for other cars, from any manufacturer)... quit your bitching, some of you people shouldn't even be driving this car... ok, i'll go back under my rock now...
R

[WillyK]

Originally posted by lomeinhu
I'll have to agree. You might as well be saying you'd rather have any car with a Type R engine over the 2zz in it. Appreciate the fact that Lotus has enough faith in the engine to use it. They're not blind to the possibility of using the Type R engine, and yet they picked the 2zz. Good news for us. That's all it is. Good news for us.

Part of me is glad they are putting it in the Elise just so maybe we'll finally get some good things for the engine such as cams, head packages, etc. But I wonder how much Lotus really knows about the engine, I can't see a company picking an engine/transmission such as this when there are so many known issues with it. As I said before, I wouldn't pay 40k for that car simply because of the engine being used in it, unless they can seem to iron out all the stupid little problems it has.

[SlasherX]

Originally posted by Redline
The only questionable part for me is how they are handling the peaky powerband. I couldn't imagine hitting lift on a turn with a 1800lbs RWD car.

Yeah, no ****. I wonder how many wrecked ones we'll be seeing. I can imagine a few.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by SlasherX
Yeah, no ****. I wonder how many wrecked ones we'll be seeing. I can imagine a few.

Hitting lift in the lightweight Elise is probably not too different from when I hit lift in my turbocharged Celi. I don't think it'll be a problem.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by lomeinhu
...They're not blind to the possibility of using the Type R engine, and yet they picked the 2zz. Good news for us. That's all it is. Good news for us.

Since Honda no longer manufactures the Type R (B18C5) engine Lotus used to utilize , that was no longer an option. Oo DaRk StAr oO brings up the S2000's F20C, but I don't think that would work since the Elise is mid-engine/rear-wheel drive and isn't compatible with a front-engine/rear-wheel drive setup like the F20 has.

[WillyK]

Originally posted by Keyshawn
Since Honda no longer manufactures the Type R (B18C5) engine Lotus used to utilize , that was no longer an option. Oo DaRk StAr oO brings up the S2000's F20C, but I don't think that would work since the Elise is mid-engine/rear-wheel drive and isn't compatible with a front-engine/rear-wheel drive setup like the F20 has.

How about the Type S engine? Now that is a nice, smooth powerband that would be well suited for the Elise. Not to mention the use of the Hondata.

[MicaCeli]

Well after getting the trial header lift is not as abrupt as it was stock.

Thats like saying "I can imagine hitting boost in a MR-2 T and hitting a wall" Its called learning how to drive.


Hope they put nice tires on it :D

[spwolf]

Originally posted by BadTOYO
right... just like toyota is selling about 40,000 celicas a year and only what? a handful of people which are having problems with their abused, not-driven-properly cars are bitching like little 6 year old girls about synchros because they can't handle an extremely precise 6 speed close ratio gearbox to begin with (go see how many TSB's are issued for other cars, from any manufacturer)... quit your bitching, some of you people shouldn't even be driving this car... ok, i'll go back under my rock now...
R

u got it right bro...

[MicaCeli]

Originally posted by WillyK
How about the Type S engine? Now that is a nice, smooth powerband that would be well suited for the Elise. Not to mention the use of the Hondata.

Its bigger and heavier........and only puts out 10 more hp. The Elise is a light car with a light engine and light everything else.

[WillyK]

Originally posted by MicaCeli
Its bigger and heavier........and only puts out 10 more hp. The Elise is a light car with a light engine and light everything else.

I doubt it's that much heavier, and it has 20 more hp.

[MicaCeli]

Originally posted by WillyK
I doubt it's that much heavier, and it has 20 more hp.

200-190=10 :wtf:

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by WillyK
How about the Type S engine? Now that is a nice, smooth powerband that would be well suited for the Elise. Not to mention the use of the Hondata.

Like MicaCeli said, the K-series engine from the RSX is slightly bigger and heavier. Since the Elise has a small engine bay and has minimal weight as its main priority, the 2zz is the best fit in this situation. Also, the 220 HP K-series engine in the current JDM Type R (RSX) isn't a possibility, since Lotus required an engine that was already fully U.S. emissions legal.

[chameleon]

:drool:

That's it, I'm buying one!

[djm221]

Originally posted by WillyK
I doubt it's that much heavier, and it has 20 more hp.
Stock, they aren't getting 15-20HP more to the wheels - and that's what matters (stock power is also all that matters to the manufacturer too).

[MarkyMark]

Originally posted by MicaCeli
1+1 = 3

[MicaCeli]

Originally posted by MarkyMark


I will kill j00 Barney :D

[TeeAREdee]

All things aside,

The 1zz and 2zz have been in other automobiles, yet the Celica still has the same aftermarket parts we started out with. :confused:

A $40,000 sports car that caters to a certain niche (probably middleaged balding men with lots of money) who will probably have no intention of modifying their "out of the box sports car," is going to give the Celica a bigger aftermarket? I don't see it happening and highly doubt anything else will be coming out for the Celica, except new TRD stickers and maybe a few new carbon fiber engine plastics.

Let reality sink in. Celica, MR2-S, Corolla, Matrix, Vibe. Has the Celica benefited at all from any of these cars (on an aftermarket level)?

[WillyK]

Originally posted by MicaCeli
200-190=10 :wtf:

Whoops, I was still thinking in terms of the Celica's 2ZZ.

Originally posted by djm221
Stock, they aren't getting 15-20HP more to the wheels - and that's what matters (stock power is also all that matters to the manufacturer too).

Very true. Although most Celica dyno in the high 150's and low 160's, I've seen most Type S' in the low 170's.

[MicaCeli]

Originally posted by TeeAREdee

A $40,000 sports car that caters to a certain niche (probably middleaged balding men with lots of money) who will probably have no intention of modifying their "out of the box sports car," is going to give the Celica a bigger aftermarket?

Yeah becouse people dont mod expensive out of the box sports cars. :wtf:

[TeeAREdee]

Originally posted by MicaCeli
Yeah becouse people dont mod expensive out of the box sports cars. :wtf:

Yes, that is called reality. If you read more carefully, I was directing it towards a certain group of people who will not modify it. I hate to break it to you, but we don't live in Paul Walker's world where every car you see is fixed up.

[MicaCeli]

Originally posted by TeeAREdee
Yes, that is called reality. If you read more carefully, I was directing it towards a certain group of people who will not modify it. I hate to break it to you, but we don't live in Paul Walker's world where every car you see is fixed up.

Really? so your telling me that expensive cars like Porsche

[TeeAREdee]

What the hell are you talking about? LOL, where did that come from.

Who said anything about a limited aftermarket for expensive sports cars and what the hell does someone not wanting to modify their car have to do with a limited aftermarket. :confused:

Two words: Reading comprehension. I suggest you read, review and absorb.

[MicaCeli]

Ok lets try this then.

You said that the Lotus will not have an aftermarket becouseOriginally posted by TeeAREdee
A $40,000 sports car that caters to a certain niche (probably middleaged balding men with lots of money) who will probably have no intention of modifying their "out of the box sports car,
and I'm telling you that you that there is a huge aftermarket for those cars in that niche.

Aftermarket support for the Lotus Elise with 2zz engine = Aftermarket support for Celica GT-S with 2zz engine.

Read the Quote above and Explain it to me another way. Becouse from the way it looks you are telling everyone that 40k sports cars dont have an aftermarket.

Slava

[BRAK]

OMG im getting a headache from this post!
Just be happy

[MarkyMark]

I'm not happy b/c I'll never afford such a car anyway :D

[djm221]

Considering the mass produced drivetrain, the Elise platform (which I believe is, or at least was, shared with the Opel Speedster - (GM funding)) $40,000 is stupid high priced. Toyota could drop the 2ZZ in the MR-2 (which has very low production numbers too) for $25,000. Why does the Lotus badge cost $10,000+? Does anyone know the reason for the inflated price?

[TeeAREdee]

Originally posted by TeeAreDee
A $40,000 sports car that caters to a certain niche (probably middleaged balding men with lots of money) who will probably have no intention of modifying their "out of the box sports car,


That is exactly what it sounds like, there is really no need to explain. There is no hidden meaning. If you don't understand, I feel for you.

Originally posted by MicaCeli
You said that the Lotus will not have an aftermarket becouse


Where did I say that? If anything I mentioned the Celica will still not have an aftermarket from the release of the Elise because

Originally posted by TeeAreDee
Celica, MR2-S, Corolla, Matrix, Vibe. Has the Celica benefited at all from any of these cars (on an aftermarket level)?


What makes you think with the release of the Elise, its going to all of a sudden change the aftermarket potential for the Celica? The Matrix, Vibe, MR2 and Corolla carry the same platform, yet the Celica still has the same aftermarket. I'm talking about the Celica aftermarket, I never stated anything or anything even remotely related to the aftermarket of the Elise.

That was my point, simple as that. How you got all that you were spewing from my post is beyond me.

[WillyK]

Originally posted by djm221
Does anyone know the reason for the inflated price?

The Lotus name, nothing else.

[X-EVIL-X]

the 2zz with intake,exhaust,trial header making over 180 to the wheels and a 1800 pound car is going to haul some major ass.
i think they'll fix up the tranny and have parts for us.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

2ZZGE - Lets recap the good and bad sides...

Good:
* Out of the box one of the best low displacement engines
* Continously Variable Valve Timing
* Aggressive Compression Ratio
* Light Weight
* Utilizes a lot of great technology

Bad:
* Everyones Lift bolts are breaking
* Very compact tranny which dosen't seem to hold more than stock
* Weak Rods
* Not meant for forced Induction (not a bad to everyone)
* Non-Flasheable ECU
* Open Head Design

[proxemac]

Originally posted by djm221
Considering the mass produced drivetrain, the Elise platform (which I believe is, or at least was, shared with the Opel Speedster - (GM funding)) $40,000 is stupid high priced. Toyota could drop the 2ZZ in the MR-2 (which has very low production numbers too) for $25,000. Why does the Lotus badge cost $10,000+? Does anyone know the reason for the inflated price?

If Toyota were to drop the 2zz in the Spyder, they'd probably charge $29k or $30k. The Elise is expected to be priced at $38.5k. It will weigh probably 15-18% less and uses an aluminum (or aluminium) space frame chassis. It also has a better suspension set up than a Spyder and things like the underbody diffusers and those gorgeous wheels. I think it's pretty safe to say that with the same engine in both, the Elise would kill the Spyder on any curvy course as well as outrun it in a straight line. Since there are a few Spyder owners who've done the 2zz drop and there are a few other Spyder owners buying an Elise, I think them having it out is a definite possibility. I'm writing this as someone who is planning on buying a Spyder before I buy an Elise, although I definitely want an Elise after I have more autocross and track experience. (If Toyota were to take the 7th gen. Celica GT-S and flip the drivetrain so it's midengine RWD, that'd be the car I want but I'll take what I can get.)

As for the engine, there is a strong possibility that Lotus will be modifying it. They've tweaked the Rover engines they use and have developed head packages for them so I would think different cams and a lower switchover point are possibilities for the 2zz, assuming they use the 2zz. There is a good sized aftermarket for the Elise in the UK, just check out http://www.race-speed.com/ and http://www.eliseparts.com/ for some examples of parts. The thing about the Elise is that pretty much every single buyer of one is a major car nut; it isn't some comfort car like a Z4 or Boxster. So with that many enthusiasts (with that much money) even with such small numbers there's still going to be a serious demand for aftermarket improvements.

[t2000gts]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
2ZZGE - Lets recap the good and bad sides...

Good:
* Out of the box one of the best low displacement engines
* Continously Variable Valve Timing
* Aggressive Compression Ratio
* Light Weight
* Utilizes a lot of great technology

Bad:
* Everyones Lift bolts are breaking
* Very compact tranny which dosen't seem to hold more than stock
* Weak Rods
* Not meant for forced Induction (not a bad to everyone)
* Non-Flasheable ECU
* Open Head Design

in addition to good, don't forget the 2ZZ-GE/C60 engine/tranny combo is very efficient, and has a low drivetrain loss %...as low as 10-11% in a few cases. more whp stock = faster.

as for the bad.

lift bolts can be checked for almost no cost in terms of money/time, just be vigilant. the lotus 2ZZ will come with the new lift bolts that should last a bit longer. i went 40k of non-stop lift without my bolts breaking (a few scratches on them though).

also the tranny IS compact, and that is partially responsible for the fragility of the synchroes in that with 6 gears in the same space as 5, everything's smaller, but it can hold way more than 180hp without a problem. if you drive like an idiot, it won't even survive the stock 180. realistically, i'd put it at 250whp with a new clutch and good gear oil for reliability.

as for hitting lift in a turn, the lotus elise is not marketed towards idiots. if one crashes the car because of this, everyone will call them an idiot and be done with it. see that video of the MRS with 2ZZ swap raping the nissan silvias and 250hp S2000 on the road course? the elise can probably handle it a bit better since it was designed for such an engine. BTW, that MRS in the video handled like it was on rails, it was amazing to watch...i really wish they had a special version with the 2ZZ in it. although swaps are more common now so i guess it leaves some aftermarket excitement for MRS guys.

also, with regards to celica owners, the matrix/vibe used the engine only because it was sporty, and the platform could take it. their modding efforts usually are more for FI since they are heavier, and don't handle as good to begin with. the Elise is like the MRS and the GTS in what it's meant for. i think this will help development of parts like new valvetrain, cams, etc. Hopefully some companies address the issues for stuff like the oil pump/rotor in Elises, since that might be cheaper to buy or import than stuff made for ZZT231 in japan. but unless you increase the redline past 9000rpm, the stock should be okay i think...

i also don't think cam switchover on a lotus 2ZZ will be changed more than 200-300rpm at max. maybe to smooth it out.

and another also! maybe this will force Toyota/TRD to actually make 2ZZ stuff themselves.

[BRAK]

Hey how easy is it to do the 2ZZ swap in the MR2?
And is it a expensive project?

I also am sooooo suprised that the 2ZZ wasnt in the MR2! It would make more sales with that engine i think.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

2ZZ swaps are pretty common an those that follow the Tougue Battles... the 2ZZ powered MRS is about to dethrone the AE86 as the drift king.

[The Game]

Nothing can dethrone the AE86!

[xkrnplayboyx]

Originally posted by The Game
Nothing can dethrone the AE86!

[carcontrol007]

Originally posted by WillyK
The Lotus name, nothing else.
i agree because of the name. but i would also put in because of the appearance of the elise. it, by far, is a better looking car than the MR2. and also they are atleast increasing the engine power by putting in the 2ZZ. and its around 400lbs lighter.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by The Game
Nothing can dethrone the AE86!

I beg to differ. The AE was gettin worked!

[t2000gts]

they drift the MRS? i always thought FR was better for showing off in drifting (MR rocks for grip).

[t2000gts]

BTW, people should swap the 2ZZ into teh AE86...or try to. i dunno if its possible with RWD. the only n/a 4A-GE that will beat it with slight bolt-ons is the toyota atlantic and obviously that's not a street motor.

plus more reliable/cheaper and more torque than a 4A making similar horsepower.

[nullpointer]

It will be very interesting to see what Lotus did to the engine to get 190hp and still pass US emissions. Lotus is known for their engineering prowess and it'll be nice if the improvements they made to the engine/tranny can be passed onto the Celica's. However, wouldn't you think that Lotus aftermarkets parts would come with Lotus (meaning expensive) pricing?

[Tikked Again]

Originally posted by t2000gts
BTW, people should swap the 2ZZ into teh AE86...or try to. i dunno if its possible with RWD. the only n/a 4A-GE that will beat it with slight bolt-ons is the toyota atlantic and obviously that's not a street motor.

plus more reliable/cheaper and more torque than a 4A making similar horsepower.

I remember somebody posting about that exact swap a loooonnng time ago.



Originally posted by carcontrol007
i agree because of the name. but i would also put in because of the appearance of the elise. it, by far, is a better looking car than the MR2.

LIES!!!!!!! ...it merely has more 'speed holes' :gap:

[The Game]

Originally posted by t2000gts
BTW, people should swap the 2ZZ into teh AE86...or try to. i dunno if its possible with RWD. the only n/a 4A-GE that will beat it with slight bolt-ons is the toyota atlantic and obviously that's not a street motor.

plus more reliable/cheaper and more torque than a 4A making similar horsepower. But 4AGE has more aftermarket than a 2ZZGE! I also dont think that a 2ZZ is cheaper than 4A

[Chui]

Originally posted by WillyK
I bet those Lotus owners are going to love the broken lift bolts, snapped rods, oiling problems, ****ty belt tensioners, bad syncros, etc.

I wouldn't pay 40K for it just because of the engine and transmission being put in it. I'd rather have the one with the Type R engine and tranny.

Willy's been converted... :chuckles:

:thumbup:

[Toy Yoda]

Originally posted by t2000gts



as for hitting lift in a turn, the lotus elise is not marketed towards idiots. if one crashes the car because of this, everyone will call them an idiot and be done with it. see that video of the MRS with 2ZZ swap raping the nissan silvias and 250hp S2000 on the road course? the elise can probably handle it a bit better since it was designed for such an engine. BTW, that MRS in the video handled like it was on rails, it was amazing to watch...i really wish they had a special version with the 2ZZ in it. although swaps are more common now so i guess it leaves some aftermarket excitement for MRS guys.




Where is this video you speak of?
Is there anyway I (a cheapskate) could download it?

[Masayver]

Originally posted by Toy Yoda
Where is this video you speak of?
Is there anyway I (a cheapskate) could download it?

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97746

[Fiero]

Damn cool car, but I wish they had chosen a different drivetrain.

2ZZ hits it's 2nd cam hard. That's not going to be fun in the limit on a turn in a mid-engine RWD car. But lets see how the tests turn out when it arrives.

[CIN]

As I have just found, a good exhaust design will and some PFC tuning will take out the power spike.

When I was running with the straight pipe it was not even feelable.

It has not caused any porblems mid corner in my MR-S.

It is all about the tuning in the end.


As for the Elise 190hp claim. You want to bet that it will put the same numbers as the GTS? I think so. They will use the effective drivetrain to their advantage. That is if they end up with this engine/gearbox combo. :)

[143hawaii]

Originally posted by WillyK
The Lotus name, nothing else.

Partially yes, but with the name comes quite an amazing building process unique to the Elise! The Elise platform has already been so well designed that I'm sure they won't mess it up.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by nullpointer
It will be very interesting to see what Lotus did to the engine to get 190hp and still pass US emissions. Lotus is known for their engineering prowess and it'll be nice if the improvements they made to the engine/tranny can be passed onto the Celica's...

Reaching a factory rating of 190 HP will be easy for Lotus and Toyota. IMHO, stock 2zz's already make close to 185 HP at the crank and Toyota has been slightly underrating the GT-S's horsepower here in the US the whole time. I mean, stock GT-S dynos, usually in the high 150s- low 160s to the wheels, are much closer to the stock dyno numbers of ITRs and RSX Type S's than the factory ratings would suggest. Getting those last few HP's will simply be a matter of tuning the fuel and ignition maps in the ECU.

[Toy Yoda]

<---- Wishes MR-Spyders were sold in Canada, even though he can't afford one.

[chameleon]

I think that the 2ZZ engine and transmition is a great match for the lotus. It's weight saving priority compliments the overall concept of the Elise. Also, as a few others have mentioned, I honestly don't think that a lot of people who buy the Lotus Elise will be modifying it. Some will, but the majority will probably leave it stock.

You can't really compare the Lotuse to an MR-S. The Lotuse is going to be insane fast with the 2ZZ engine. The euro version of the car only weights around 1500 lbs dry, we will have to wait and see how much weight is added converting it for US regulations.

[pimp20g]

maybe somebody will finally make an upgraded valve train for the 2zz now...

[t2000gts]

Originally posted by The Game
But 4AGE has more aftermarket than a 2ZZGE! I also dont think that a 2ZZ is cheaper than 4A

that's just it. it costs MONEY to get the 4A up to 190...and then beyond. a 2ZZ with I/H/E is making how much power? at the crank it'd be over 200 easy. that's 180whp if you're lucky, maybe more, maybe less.

$2k for a 2ZZ. $1k for I/H/E (mostly Header, exhaust can be cheap if you get custom and intake's cheap).

so i mean in the end, it might be cheaper. cuz a 4A is definitely cheaper than a 2ZZ, stock units considered.

a crazy built 4A-GE is not cheap, even if it is easy to get parts.

[GTS-Racer]

most lotus buyer probably arent much into modding it...40k price prob be those over 30's that are buying it

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by GTS-Racer
most lotus buyer probably arent much into modding it...40k price prob be those over 30's that are buying it

Yeah, I don't think Lotus expects most peeps to mod the Elise. Unlike the big aftermarket for Porsche, I've never noticed much aftermarket support for any Lotus. In any case, as long as the 2zz engine and C60 tranny remain stock, they shouldn't cause too many problems. The two issues I forsee some Elise owners having to deal with are the lift-bolt problem and the synchro problem. Both are aggravated by hard driving, and can happen to stock cars as easily as modded ones.

[The Game]

Originally posted by t2000gts
that's just it. it costs MONEY to get the 4A up to 190...and then beyond. a 2ZZ with I/H/E is making how much power? at the crank it'd be over 200 easy. that's 180whp if you're lucky, maybe more, maybe less.

$2k for a 2ZZ. $1k for I/H/E (mostly Header, exhaust can be cheap if you get custom and intake's cheap).

so i mean in the end, it might be cheaper. cuz a 4A is definitely cheaper than a 2ZZ, stock units considered.

a crazy built 4A-GE is not cheap, even if it is easy to get parts.
$2K for a 2ZZ??? :wtf:

Arent they 10K brand new??

[X-EVIL-X]

will they upgrade the tranny you think?
i want a better tranny that can withstand 8400 rpm shifting without the synchros going out.

[Karim]

Originally posted by WillyK
I bet those Lotus owners are going to love the broken lift bolts, snapped rods, oiling problems, ****ty belt tensioners, bad syncros, etc.

I wouldn't pay 40K for it just because of the engine and transmission being put in it. I'd rather have the one with the Type R engine and tranny.


I'm with Willy here, actually if it would've came with the type r motor I would've been thinking about trade in.

Karim

[t2000gts]

Originally posted by The Game
$2K for a 2ZZ??? :wtf:

Arent they 10K brand new??

who on earth would get one for brand new when you can pull a low mileage one out of a junkyard for less than half that...

buy a used beat up AE86 for like $1k...then buy a brand new engine to go in it?

[hollywood]

hmmm still waiting. few more months

[Auto[BoT]_GTS]

Originally posted by BRAK
OMG you peeps b i t c h about EVERYTHING and have negative comments on EVERYTHING!!
You all sound like women.

ahhahaa thats what it seems like recently.......

the spirt mrs in japan kicks ass with a stock 2zz in it...