Spacers and the stock studs

[NoCones]

You guys think we could get away with a 5mm spacer using the stock studs?

Think it would make any difference? Could a little wider track in the rear help it hang on a little better?

[pitcrew]

That would depend on your wheel's lug area thickness. Take a lugnut off, measure how much stud is sticking out of the face of the wheel, subtract 1/4". I'd want at least 1/2" left. If anything, I'd guess that widening the rear track would increase the snap oversteer tendency by increasing the dynamic rear steer characteristics of the rear suspension, but don't take that for gospel, as I'm just starting to figure it out myself... I found this past weekend at the Evo schools that the Celica definitely rewards smooth driving, and is very drivable that way. I only spun it once on Sun, when I got very late through a tight slalom that I hadn't run through before, and tried to horse it thru. DRIVER didn't spin at all and was VERY fast! Now that we have both learned how to drive it we are very happy with it, and will only change it if the tire temps indicate we should, with tire pressures, shock adjustment or tweaking the alignment.

[autxr]

I'd want to measure as Charles says, but I think it would be fine with the STOCK lug nuts. Since they go through the wheel (wheels are lug and hub centric) it would give a lot of thread. On the other hand, these "Rage Race 10" wheels with the tuner lugs seem to NOT have a lot of threads engaging (compared to the stock ones). I'd be worried with those wheels..

Scott

[Jose]

how about putting 5mm spacers on the whole car will it handle better?

[pitcrew]

I still expect it would likely make it worse rather than better. The stock suspension handles quite well. (GH Sharp kicked our butts last AX in his first time out with his GT with ALL stock suspension, just an alignment and Hoosiers)
And ours was VERY good with Konis, alignment and Kumhos once we started to drive it smoothly. It will not let you throw it around or do a quick lift/ brake in a corner without biting you tho.

[NoCones]

I'm certainly not saying the suspension doesn't handle well...it's generally great. But, if I could do something simple and cheap to decrease the tendency to oversteer in transitions and under deceleration, I'd do it in a heartbeat (probably even if it cost me a little in static cornering).

I know that Scott had indicated that a certain fast NC dude sometimes uses spacers at one end or the other on his Type R under certain conditions...

Anyone know where I could get a couple 5mm spacers that would work for the Celica?

[gtsxr]

I think if you put the spacers on the front it would help induce a little understeer, which should help settle down the rear.

[autxr]

Actually, a wider track in front should have the effect of increasing front end grip, making oversteer worse.

putting spacers in the rear only should reduce oversteer (in theory).

I've thought about running them all around just to try and increase grip that much more (all around). It might not be much, but if I can get an extra 1 mph through every turn, I will run a lower time.

Scott

[NoCones]

So where can I get them, Scott? I'd like to try 'em...at least in the rear.

[autxr]

pep boys

tirerack.com will sell you really nice H&R ones, but some little slabs from pep boys ought to do it.

Scott

[pitcrew]

The reason I say putting them in the rear should INCREASE oversteer is because the dynamic passive rear steer toes OUT under load or droop. If you extend the moment arm further out, you'll effectively increase the toe out.
H&R's ~ 80.00 per pair, but they are machined, rather than stamped out of sheet stock. I'd buy the cheap ones for testing tho! Just make sure that the wheel offset on your race wheels is no greater than stock or you'll be illegal.

[NoCones]

Here's the way I'm seeing it:
The dynamic toe characteristics are going to be the same with or without the spacer. Suspension compresses x and yields toe out y.

With the spacer, that toe out is introducing a turn of a slightly larger radius, which should be slightly less apt to put the rear in front of the front.

What the heck...if I can get some cheap spacers from Advance down the street, maybe I'll try it Sunday.

Bryan

[pitcrew]

I don't think your theory is quite correct, I'll explain why Sun. But then again I'm quickly learning that this car doesn't do much that is expected, so you never know what might work. The only way to find out is through testing. I think the spacers at Pep boys are ~ 10.00 a set. It's going to be a fun season!

[Mas]

I've got H&R's for all 4 corners but I have not run them yet. The H&R's should run you about $60 per pair and will come with new longer wheel studs.

The reason why I've yet to run them is I've only installed the longer studs on one corner. Installing the front studs don't seem to be too difficult but I'm thinking the rears are going to be a little trickier with the drum/disk setup.

I'll let you know once I get a chance to run.

Mason