Here is my XS nightmare!!!!

[Smaay]

I first want to say that this is a good kit once I got all the stronger manifold, this is about how XS has been treating me ever since i got the kit.

Well where do I begin. You all know the trouble I have been having with XS. Well, this is the tip of the iceberg. 2 months after the turbo was installed the manifold cracked. So I take it in to get fixed. Instead of replacing the manifold XS decides to repair it. In the process of repairing the manifold, they warped the flange horribly, creating an enormous exhaust leak. To fix this, XS decides to Mickey Mouse it and weld a bead around each opening to make a seal. That fixes it temporarily.


look at all the welds



There is also a crank ventilation hose that feeds into the air filter before the turbo. It has a small plastic fitting on the end that threads into the filter. Well this keeps coming loose so XS in their infinite wisdom uses a large hex nut to secure the fitting into the filter. More on this in a minute.


About 2 months later, it cracks again. Talking to Reggie he tells me that they are constructing a cast iron manifold. He says to wait until its ready instead of fixing my old one again. Well another month goes by and IDRC is coming up. Again XS gives me the runaround. I happened to meet a very cool guy named Rick Head who is part owner of Innovative Turbo Systems. He says bring it in and ill fix it for you. So I did and he did. After repairing all the cracks in the manifold and can no longer hear the exhaust leaks, I hear a strange wining sound when the turbo spools. I couldnt hear this before because of the sound from the exhaust leaks. I mention this to Rick and we conclude that there might be another leak. So we pull the manifold again and sand down the flange. Unfortunately this sands down the beads and creates the old large leak again. No IDRC finals for me. This is Friday by the way….

The next Monday, Rick sends out the manifold to be resurfaced. Comparing the old and new manifolds, it’s obvious how much material was removed to make the flange flush again.



We install everything and I still hear that same whining sound. Another month goes by and again there is another leak….and once again I call XS and get the runaround about the new manifold. Well, Xmas eve I’m heading down to Grandmas house for dinner and the manifold goes. Something fell apart…the car is now un-driveable. I had to wait till the next Monday to get a hold of anyone at XS. After 3 phone calls and threatening to sue, I finally get a new manifold sent to me. However…it wasn’t shipped to me until the NEXT MONDAY!!!!! Once again XS drops the ball…

So the new manifold arrives last night and I am getting ready to install it. But a new problem arrives, because of all the removing of the manifold the bolt holes in the head are now stripped. This was fixed with the correct size tap bit. The threads will not be the same again.


HOWEVER……I pulled the turbo to take a few pictures of it next to my future turbo to compare size and this is what I discovered.





Remember that hex nut that was used to secure the fitting into the filter. Guess where it went. That’s right, through the turbo. So now I have a dead turbo. Here is the end of the fitting that was mangled by whatever was bouncing around in the filter.



here you can see the impression from a washer inside the filter. Who in their right mind would use a metal piece on a plastic piece? Especially right in front of the turbo?



Once again I call Reggie at XS and have a little chat. This time I keep my cool and remain calm. I say “ Reggie, im going to send you a picture, then we are going to talk” I sent the pictures and he says “wow” I say “no kidding” So he tells me that he will show these pictures to his turbo guy when he gets in around 10:00 AM. Then he will call me. I wait till 1:30 PM and no call, so I call back and Reggie says that the turbo guy saw the pictures and now he’s waiting for a response from his Project Manager. (this is the same kind of runaround I would get about the manifold) 4:30 rolls around and still no call. As I expected. I call again and Reggie says that his PM has seen the pictures and will decide how to fix this situation. So here I am with no car, no turbo, and no going to the track this week. This is Tuesday night by the way.

I call Reggie at least 4 times a day for the next 3 days. Its not untill Friday morning do i get an answer from his supervisor. The answer is "you are **** outta luck"

Because i couldnt wait for XS to get off their asses and fix my part and i went to another shop, they will not replace my turbo. XS is playing the "how do we know it wasnt something that the other shop did" card. What a chicken **** excuse...!!!

I witnessed everything that Innovative did and they did nothing to cause this. First of all XS shouldnt have put a metal nut and washer in there in the first place. And to add to that, if the manifold didnt crack i wouldnt have had to take back at all.

Well come monday morning I am filing at small claims court. I have been keeping a log and documenting everything. I tried to give XS a chance to make it right the first time. They chose not to.

Anyone with this kit should check their manifolds and turbos. make sure that fitting hasnt come out like mine did so many times.

I never wanted for things to go this way but i feel that i should warn everyone here what has happened to me.

[turboceli2003]

WOW i feel for ya man

[RADR1732]

Wow bro... I'm really sorry to hear all the trouble you have been having. Good luck with the suit.

Richard

[cool2miketlu]

all I can say is WOW!!! Send them this link to let them know one of the biggest celica website knows about how they back their kit up or lack there of. I guess one of the biggest company around does not mean they got a good customer service.

[WRENCHHEAD]

go get'em smaay!!

[Hungster]

werd i hate companies that have bad customer service. one of my biggest things is customer service, especially since i manage a retail store. I have always paid more to go with a shop that has good customer service, ex: why i dropped the teins, and went with hothckis instead. welps looks like i might not be going there after all....

[eccentricGTSdvr]

sorry doode....that sucks...hope everything works out..

[Jersey Jay]

Smaay all I can say is call the Atorney Generals Office and the BBB in your local, you'll be amazed what happen when they get hold of XS. Sorry to hear about all the greif you have.

[aerospike2002]

Yes, definitely get ahold of the BBB Smaay.

Man, I feel so bad for you. After all the time you took to explain things to me (remember all that??? Hahaha!!!). I really hope you have luck with this suit. You did everything you could, and now the ball is WAY into XS' court. It's out of bounds actually!

Last step = do the same thing I did. Pull that thing out and swap in the SF kit It's truly worth it bro. On a side note, I better check on that guy I sold my XS kit to up here. At least to let him know about possible trouble. Hmmm.....

[faultline]

I hope this whole ordeal hasn't beaten you up as bad as that impeller looks!...what misery!..Props to you though for all the documenting you have done, and I must say that you gave XS ample opportunity to make things better....what wrong with them?!!! 2coolmike had it right about this board..what are they thinking?...I hope it all gets squared away and that before too long you'll be back running 13's where you belong......that new turbo looks BIG!

[nyoneway]

I spoke to XS and Reggie a couple of times and I never felt like they want my business or me as customer. That was one of the primary reason why I held off on their turbo kit.

[EuGeNiLe GTS]

damn ur turbo got fugked..

good luck wit everything man.. not a very good way for XS to build up a good rep with the biggest 7th gen site in the world..

[SpeeedCelicaGTS]

Smaay, That sux ass! So if I order an xs kit, will the manifold be cast iron?

[Keyshawn]

I'm stunned, since I've gotten great service from XS. Our experiences w/ them are like night and day. Regardless, I'm very sorry to hear about your dilemma and hope it all gets resolved soon.

[twistedGTS]

my TP kit doesn't seem so bad after all. j/k Sorry to hear about all that.Those *******s. Good luck with it.

[CelicaLicious]

I would try the BBB before i file a claim, just a little less hassle. the BBB will take care of you for sure.

good luck with that! and make sure XS knows about this thread!

[Asha'man]

Hey Smaay,

sorry to hear that and good luck!!!

Ash

[Fourgig]

Holy crap Jeff, this sucks!

I also recommend going thru BBB first before filing small claims. It's amazing how businesses fear getting a bad rep with BBB.

[mtskibum16]

There goes SF competition. I was still undecided between the two, but as long as Stafford can beat that customer service (shouldn't be hard) XS is out of the picture. I live in Montana and there's no way I would be able to deal with all of that runaround. Thanks for the info. SF, get ready for some more business. Sorry to hear about your car. Good luck!

[RXvedub]

bigest companies dont always have the best enginears. some times the little guy out of his garage can out do big guys looking for pure profit.

The same is going on with XS's IS300 turbo kit. they were the first ones to make one, but have not reliesed an actual kit yet. They have just mickey moused everything just to say they have a kit

[RXvedub]

BTW... Smaay I was the one in the Turbo IS going up the 14 a couple months back.

[soceur]

Man! I cant imangine how you feel, but be sure to let them know about this thread, im sure they lost potential customers...maybe even me. Good luck with everything!

[patrickvi]

You should really file a complaint with the BBB, as I have done before. At least that way other consumers can be warned about them. Go to:

http://www.bbb.org

and file online. You can also search for other businesses on there BEFORE they screw you! It's saved me once before!

Good Luck!

[Lilsupra]

Do us all a favor...send ur manifold in for prototyping and make us a cast manifold...this way u can make tons of money and save us trouble from a lacking turbo kit from XS...i dont kno why they they went with a welded manifold...not all welds are the same.

[c2gas]

Uuuuhhh Man that just sucks!!
I thought that they make high quality ( as the parts they use).
What are your plans now? Are you going to use that t4 on the pic, or just change the comp.wheel on the IHI from XS, or put the comp.side of T4 on the IHI(hybrid)?

[RADR1732]

Originally posted by mtskibum16
There goes SF competition. I was still undecided between the two, but as long as Stafford can beat that customer service (shouldn't be hard) XS is out of the picture. I live in Montana and there's no way I would be able to deal with all of that runaround. Thanks for the info. SF, get ready for some more business. Sorry to hear about your car. Good luck!

Another great thing with you living in Montana and being interested in the SF kit is the fact that Mike goes to Montana a lot. You may be able to have him install the kit.

Richard

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by Lilsupra
Do us all a favor...send ur manifold in for prototyping and make us a cast manifold...this way u can make tons of money and save us trouble from a lacking turbo kit from XS...i dont kno why they they went with a welded manifold...not all welds are the same.

Actually, XS uses cast iron manifolds with their production kits. They swapped one in my car a few months ago.

[aznleo28]

any chance you could take a pic of your new manifold keyshawn?
From my dealing with reggie, he is a great guy, but it does seem like he really is just a sales rep. There are alot of guys higher than him, and he has to go to each one to get something done or resolved. Which is the reason why i think xs lags so much. Other than that, i haven' t had any problems with the kit. They were very thorough when they installed mine, running great. good luck smaay, keep us updated on your situation.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by aznleo28
any chance you could take a pic of your new manifold keyshawn?
From my dealing with reggie, he is a great guy, but it does seem like he really is just a sales rep. There are alot of guys higher than him, and he has to go to each one to get something done or resolved. Which is the reason why i think xs lags so much. Other than that, i haven' t had any problems with the kit. They were very thorough when they installed mine, running great. good luck smaay, keep us updated on your situation.

Unfortunately, I don't have any pics of my new manifold. Smaay has a good pic of both new and old one, though. The new cast iron one is the one on the top:

[gnes100]

i bought the blitz supercharger pd a lot more but it is a quality product have not had a problem

[larryd]

Damn Jeff that really blows man. I can understand where your coming from, I blew 4 different turbos on my GST back in the day and the car broke down on a daily basis. Though I had good customer service with most of them it still sucks being the guinea pig for a mnfgrs mistake.

Good luck in court, hopefully you can get it resolved without that.

[Andwele]

Originally posted by cool2miketlu
all I can say is WOW!!! Send them this link to let them know one of the biggest celica website knows about how they back their kit up or lack there of. I guess one of the biggest company around does not mean they got a good customer service.

I don't think thats goin to make them scared one bit. The people that they service drive RX7's Supras and other high dollar cars. Case in point, My friend had a 93 TT RX7 that he sold to some guy out of state. The guy wanted to mod the car with a PFC bigger injectors yea yea yea. He droped it off to XS to get dyno tuned, They said they had to change the spark plugs out mad bling there $75. Then they said they had to redo the oil drain on the turbo. In the end the bill was $1011 for dyno tune, changing the oil drain, spark plugs.

[soceur]

Originally posted by Andwele
I don't think thats goin to make them scared one bit. The people that they service drive RX7's Supras and other high dollar cars.

Then let them know that you will be posting this thread to forums of other cars they cater to.

[mtskibum16]

How about instead, we just let Mr. Stafford know that there is business coming his way, and that he needs to get the GT-S finished and on the dyno. His kit looks much more promissing anyway. Then send XS this thread and let them know that they are getting beat by the "little guy" simply because of their customer service. Maybe they will clean up their act a bit after that.

[WutARyd]

Originally posted by twistedGTS
my TP kit doesn't seem so bad after all. j/k Sorry to hear about all that.Those *******s. Good luck with it.

haha, seems like history repeating itself. if you want something done right...

and to all the Stafford fanboys, don't trust anyone. When TP's kit first came out, everyone was absolutely ecstatic, just as you guys are being towards SF.

I hope I eat my words, but XS was supposed to blow TP's production quality out of the water, and, well...

[XSPOWER]

First off, Smaay, I apoligize for your situation. However, we stand firm by our decision.

Like Keyshawn said, his own experiences with XS customer service and your own, Smaay, are like night and day. Aznleo seemingly had no problems either. There is no way that we could maintain the large, satisfied, customer base that we have now if we treated everybody like this. I'm confident that you can speak to almost any of our previous customers and they will tell you that they were satisfied. This goes for the guys that drive Hondas as well as Lexus SC430s.

At the same time, our mechanics, tuners, and engineers are of the most experienced in this segment of the industry. Several of our mechanics and tuners, including myself, have been raised on Japanese vehicles. At the age of 30, I have 16 years of experience with turbocharged Japanese vehicles. Our other tuner, Koji, at the age of 33, has 16 years of experience with Japanese vehicles. There are several others that have almost 10 years of experience with Japanese vehicles. XS has been in business for almost 8 years now and we have not created our reputation by "giving chicken **** excuses, sitting on our asses, and telling people they are **** outta luck."

As for the “XS is playing the ‘how do we know it wasn’t something that the other shop did’ card” comment, this is not a CARD we are playing nor is this a chicken **** excuse. Picture this scenario: If you purchase a Sony DVD player, why would you take it to Pioneer for repair? Even though Pioneer may provide excellent service in their own right, it would be highly unlikely that they would repair the player to Sony’s same specifications. I have dealt with Rick Head on several occasions when he was at Turbonetics and have had no problems. In fact, we have no doubt in his or Innovative’s abilities. However, we simply believe that our staff has the most experience with this kit and are the only people who know it intimately. We made it clear that we were more than willing to work on your car, free of charge. However, we were unable to accommodate your seemingly weekly racing schedule to your satisfaction as our service and tuning departments also have very full schedules. That said, here are some points I’d like to clarify:

•Your kit is the only one that has developed these kinds of problems
•Your turbocharger system consists of hundreds of components – if any of which is overlooked, could lead to serious problems and/or damage
•Your particular turbocharger system was taken apart, worked on, and reassembled multiple times by non-XS employees

Unfortunately your experience with XS had to end like this. I wish you luck with your next turbo system.

Eric Hsu
Special Projects Manager
XS Engineering, Inc.

[larryd]

Man, thats BS. Im sorry but its not ok to say "we satisfy nearly everyone". I mean why make someones life miserable so they can spread the story of how XS screwed them when all you have to do is replace the manifold and turbo which is chump change for you guys at XS? Have you ever heard that 1 bad customer service issue costs you 10 sales? Id really think about how this will affect your sales with Celica owners in the future, with them now knowing that if something happens to their kit and it cant be fixed in house by XS your automaticaly going to blame them for the problems. Reminds me of Toyota blaming problems on intakes and what not that could possibly have nothing to do with the intake.

My suggestion if it matters.

1) replace the manifold since it obviously should have been replaced from the get go.

2) get him a new center catridge for the turbo to be installed by the shop of his choice.

3) have him sign a waiver stating XS is no longer responsible for anything that happens with the kit.

4) go your seperate ways and be done with XS showing they take care of their customers and Jeff not getting screwed on an overpriced kit that was obviously not designed well.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by XSPOWER
We made it clear that we were more than willing to work on your car, free of charge. However, we were unable to accommodate your seemingly weekly racing schedule to your satisfaction as our service and tuning departments also have very full schedules.

Translation:

"Sit down shush up and wait months on end for warranty service like a good little plebe. We have customers whose money we haven't taken yet and they come first"

Nice policy. You guys wouldn't last a month as a dealership or a normal service shop.

[XSPOWER]

Nice policy. You guys wouldn't last a month as a dealership or a normal service shop.

The products we offer and the services we provide aren't of a normal scope and neither are the products. Dealerships and repair shops simply replace parts; they don't design and manufacture turbo or tune high output engines.

1) replace the manifold since it obviously should have been replaced from the get go.

This was already replaced. This is how he showed pictures of it in his post. The reason why it wasn't replaced the first time is because it was not available at the time. Jeff knows this.

2) get him a new center catridge for the turbo to be installed by the shop of his choice.

This probably wouldn't be wise as it could happen all over again.

4) go your seperate ways and be done with XS showing they take care of their customers and Jeff not getting screwed on an overpriced kit that was obviously not designed well.

The whole reason why the first kits were installed in house were because there were parts in these kits that we knew that other shops would have trouble with. None of the other kits that were installed here in house had any problems. Air filters included in the new kits have the pcv fitting molded into the filters.

Keep in mind that if there are other successful installs, then it wouldn't really be fair to say that our kit is "overpriced and obviously not designed well" right?

[Smaay]

Originally posted by XSPOWER
However, we simply believe that our staff has the most experience with this kit and are the only people who know it intimately.

What kind of a Turbo guy puts a metal washer and nut directly in front of the turbo?

[Smaay]

Originally posted by XSPOWER

•Your particular turbocharger system was taken apart, worked on, and reassembled multiple times by non-XS employees

That is compleatly wrong...Only one person touched my system other than XS personell.

And as for the manifold...I have been having manifold problems for over 4 month and why do i see Keyshawn getting one 2 months ago? If im the only one with a problem, why did he get it and not me?

[aznleo28]

damn this has gotten really ugly. Im going to give them a call tomorrow, i want to make sure i can still get the new cast manifold. Im going to check on my manifold and fittings too. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[aznleo28]

Originally posted by Smaay
That is compleatly wrong...Only one person touched my system other than XS personell.

And as for the manifold...I have been having manifold problems for over 4 month and why do i see Keyshawn getting one 2 months ago? If im the only one with a problem, why did he get it and not me?

thats a good point. Keyshawn told me that they just called him up and offered him the new manifold since they knew he had the old one. Thats the kind of service i would exptect from them. They should have called u first. I haven 't heard anything from them either, if it wasn' t for this board, i still wouldn 't know they had a new manifold out.

[Smaay]

Yeah you can expect your manifold in about 4 months like i did. I kept calling and got nothing but the run around...meanwhile i missed IDRC.

Id like to add that i raced the car once a week at the most. Thats why i bought the ****ing thing. If their product cant support that, then they shouldnt advertise it.

It should be advertised as.."want to own a turbo car? well now you can, but dont drive it like a turbo car...cause it will break."

I was more than patient with XS and all the problems i had. tell you what XS Power, ill bring you the kit back and you can give me a refund. How about that?

[mtskibum16]

Originally posted by XSPOWER
There is no way that we could maintain the large, satisfied, customer base that we have now if we treated everybody like this. I'm confident that you can speak to almost any of our previous customers and they will tell you that they were satisfied. This goes for the guys that drive Hondas as well as Lexus SC430s.

To me the word almost stands out. It doesn't matter if you treat most of your customers good(the ones with lots of money and all the time in the world to be carless). It's the guys like smaay that matter. You can't pick and choose which ones to treat correctly!!! Now in XS's defense, the kit they have put together is a great kit, but I will never buy the kit after hearing what happened. I have been planning on it for as long as I have known about it, but it is no longer a consideration, and while XS may not care, they should because sure they're only loosing $5000, but each $5000 will add up in a hurry when everyone turns their backs to the kit. This however will also not affect XS because, as brought up before, the money they get from the Celica community is pocket change compared to all of the high dollar cars they work on. But the main focus here is not money. It is about morals and business ethics. That's my 2 cents.

[larryd]

Originally posted by XSPOWER
Air filters included in the new kits have the pcv fitting molded into the filters.

This right here bothers me. The fact that you have decided to include a different air filter or something that has to do with the air filter in the new kits is like admitting there was a flaw in the kit Jeff received.

You are correct, I should not say the kit is overpriced and not worth it as I do not have first hand knowledge but your customer service is enough of a reason that I personally would never purchase a kit from XS. All cases should be handled specially and Jeff should receive a new center cartridge. Its hard to believe that a few hundred dollar center cartridge is worth this much bad publicity for XS.

[XSPOWER]

That is compleatly wrong...Only one person touched my system other than XS personell.

All it might take is one person.

Id like to add that i raced the car once a week at the most. Thats why i bought the ****ing thing. If their product cant support that, then they shouldnt advertise it.

The product can support it, but our appointment book could not. We apologized then and I apologize now.

And as for the manifold...I have been having manifold problems for over 4 month and why do i see Keyshawn getting one 2 months ago? If im the only one with a problem, why did he get it and not me?

I believe he got his approximately 3 months ago. We swapped it out in the interest of test fitment since his car was here for a check up. I guess it was timing why he got it. The one that Keyshawn got was the only one we had at the time.

What kind of a Turbo guy puts a metal washer and nut directly in front of the turbo?

That's a metal washer and a plastic nut. The plastic nut i cut so that it cannot be unthreaded. How it came off? I'm not sure. We were not the last ones to work on the car and so the result is our decision to not warranty the turbocharger. It isn't very easy for this nut to become unthreaded and it has not become unthreaded on ANY other Celicas that WE have worked on. The newest filter elements and breather fittings are one piece.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by XSPOWER
That's a metal washer and a plastic nut. The plastic nut i cut so that it cannot be unthreaded. How it came off? I'm not sure. We were not the last ones to work on the car and so the result is our decision to not warranty the turbocharger. It isn't very easy for this nut to become unthreaded and it has not become unthreaded on ANY other Celicas that WE have worked on. The newest filter elements and breather fittings are one piece.

You put a non nylocked non cotterpinned nut IN an intake in front of a turbo... that right there proves your incompetence. NO-ONE puts things that might rattle loose inside an intake - NA or Turbo - it is an act of the utmost stupidity to do so. Anyone that has ever seen what an nut injested into a motor can do knows that.

The only time you ever see a fastener internal to an intake on an OEM its torqued down and loc-tighted six ways to Sunday.

Frankly you have already admitted your faulty design in plain english. The only reason you are failing to warranty the part is because someone besides you worked on the car once... didn't even necessarily touch the part in question. Thats not legal for an OEM and its not legal for you. Unless you can PROVE he tampered with the nut AND that you secured it in a permanant and un-removable way (which you obviously didn't) you don't have a leg to stand on. If I were any of the other people with your kit I would be demanding the new filter with a proper fitting in it.

I can't even IMAGINE how bad your support will be for people who buy a kit from you and don't get it installed by you if you treat your customers like this. "Oh we didn't work on it so we can't warranty anything". Good luck selling them.

[Super Pilun]

smaay, let us know how the lawsuit goes. don't give up!

[soceur]

does anyone have there email address?