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Old 02-09-2005, 05:42 PM   #1
Hetts
 
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Cheaper Boost Controller

I usualy only hear anybody talk about the greddy specII and sometimes the blitz boost controller on this site. These seem like top of the line boost controllers, and are ideal for somebody thats going to be tinkering with the amount of boost they are running a lot. So here is where my question comes in...
I'm going to be boosting my GT, and I want to up the PSI to 8. All I want to do is set it there, and I never have any intentions to changing it. Im going to be doing some pretty intensive tuning (full throttle and partial throttle), so I dont want to change the boost and ruin the tune. Is there a cheaper boost controller that you guys would reccomend to just knock it up a few psi and keep it there? Or do I need to get one of the expensive ones like that to get the dual solenoid and avoid boost spikes? I have no need for a unit that has an lcd display or control inside of the cabin. Thanks for readin!
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Old 02-09-2005, 07:50 PM   #2
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With a MBC or something like that you may have problems with boost creep. Watch ebay...there are some pretty good prices on there. You could always get a ball and spring MBC for like $10-20 and see what happens. If it spikes then just sell it. I got the Greddy Profec B II plus the greddy TT for $260shipped.....not too bad.
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Old 02-09-2005, 08:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by mtskibum16
With a MBC or something like that you may have problems with boost creep. Watch ebay...there are some pretty good prices on there. You could always get a ball and spring MBC for like $10-20 and see what happens. If it spikes then just sell it. I got the Greddy Profec B II plus the greddy TT for $260shipped.....not too bad.
260 isnt that bad at all. I already have the tt, though. Does the profec B have a tt integrated into it or something? I think I might have read something along those lines while I was doing my research/searching.

Also, are Manual Boost Controllers universal? Or do I have to get on that is particular for the celica. I remeber doing a search like that on ebay and got a lot of them for "evos" "stis" "dsms"...you know, all the mainstream turblows.

And what kind of boost creep could i expect? spikes of like .5 psi or spikes of 2 or 3 psi?
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Old 02-09-2005, 08:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hetts
260 isnt that bad at all. I already have the tt, though. Does the profec B have a tt integrated into it or something? I think I might have read something along those lines while I was doing my research/searching.

Also, are Manual Boost Controllers universal? Or do I have to get on that is particular for the celica. I remeber doing a search like that on ebay and got a lot of them for "evos" "stis" "dsms"...you know, all the mainstream turblows.

And what kind of boost creep could i expect? spikes of like .5 psi or spikes of 2 or 3 psi?
No the profec doesn't have a built in TT....i got it used as a set. MBC are universal...the car type in the heading doesn't matter. I have no idea about the boost creep...you might not get any. You would just have to try it out. I have a SF MBC that I would sell...ley me know. Otherwise you can get them for REALLY cheap on ebay.
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Old 02-09-2005, 08:37 PM   #5
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This is all you would need...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...951992457&rd=1 For the most part a MBC is a MBC so getting a more expensive one would just be a waste. You could easily make one for like $5.
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Old 02-09-2005, 08:57 PM   #6
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this seems kind of iffy to me. Dont be cheap, you just bought a kit that prolly cost you around 4k to put together, spend 200ish on an ebc and feel safe knowing EXACTLY where your boost is going to be, how the hell would you know where 7 psi would be on a screw, what if you screw it too much and it shoots over 10 on stock GT injectors.. or what if you got mad boost creep and didnt realize it.
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I forgot more aftermarket parts that are on my car then you have listed for your mod list.

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Old 02-09-2005, 09:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by carboncelicagt
this seems kind of iffy to me. Dont be cheap, you just bought a kit that prolly cost you around 4k to put together, spend 200ish on an ebc and feel safe knowing EXACTLY where your boost is going to be, how the hell would you know where 7 psi would be on a screw, what if you screw it too much and it shoots over 10 on stock GT injectors.. or what if you got mad boost creep and didnt realize it.
200 dollars is 200 dollars, and if I dont need most of the features on the profec, why would I buy it? Im considering this for the same reason im not getting a PFC, because im not going to use all of the features on it that cost the extra hundreds of dollars.

If it turns out that MBC are peices of junk and do give a lot of boost creep, I will go with something more expensive. But if they dont, why not? Anybody actually have experience with them?


Quote:
Originally posted by mtskibum16
This is all you would need...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...951992457&rd=1 For the most part a MBC is a MBC so getting a more expensive one would just be a waste. You could easily make one for like $5.
Thanks for looking out, I have to get to sleep for now, but I'm going to look a little bit closer at ebay tomorrow. I don't think I quite trust myself enough to make a boost controller for my car, good idea though.
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Old 02-09-2005, 09:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by carboncelicagt
this seems kind of iffy to me. Dont be cheap, you just bought a kit that prolly cost you around 4k to put together, spend 200ish on an ebc and feel safe knowing EXACTLY where your boost is going to be, how the hell would you know where 7 psi would be on a screw, what if you screw it too much and it shoots over 10 on stock GT injectors.. or what if you got mad boost creep and didnt realize it.
ummm....you guess and check. Put it somewhere (low), start driving keeping a close eye on the boost. If it looks like it's going to go too high stop and unscrew it some. Many people will knock these MBC mainly because they know nothing about them. DSMers have been using them for YEARS. My buddy had a first gen eclipse and was running like 20 psi using only a homemade (not nearly as nice as that $10 one) MBC. Now, I am not sating that it will work no problem, but it wouldn't hurt to try. He may have no problems with it. Also, without proper tuning and EBC will spike too. You just ahve to be carefull. Night....
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Old 02-09-2005, 10:00 PM   #9
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Try Hallman boost controllers if u want cheap...its a spring type valve not a bleeder type.
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Old 02-09-2005, 10:58 PM   #10
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MBC does cause problems with boost creeps, with DSM their engine is stronger than ours occassional boost creeps will not be any problem. What works for 1 car does not mean it will work with every car, one may know alot about a DSM but doubt he knows much about 1ZZ or 2ZZ. He probably would believe S-AFC would work on Celica because it works for DSM.

Consider this you want to boost higher with MBC are you going to put more fuel into it by reprogram your fuel system? If you are not (odds are if you are too cheap to buy a decent boost controller you are not going to tune a high boost map) then you are giving your engine more air but same amount of fuel. Running lean is what is going to happen and it will cause plenty of problems. Anything that has to do with engine health do not go cheap, going cheap now means alot of money out of pocket later.
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:46 AM   #11
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DSM or not.. some MBCs will still cause boost spike/creep.. read around, do not get discouraged about purchasing an MBC if u want to go the cheaper route.. there are some that have no/minimal probs with creep/spike. also keep in mind other factors that might cause this.. porting of the mani/o2 housing, wastegate spring setting, etc.

there are also hi/low MBCs.. just like those expensive EBCs.. again.. search around..

heres an example..

http://dejontool.com/DSM-MBC.htm

yea they specialize in DSM/4G63 goods, but an MBC is an MBC.. should be a universal application.. but dont take my word on that..

good luck
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Old 02-10-2005, 05:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by cool2miketlu
MBC does cause problems with boost creeps, with DSM their engine is stronger than ours occassional boost creeps will not be any problem. What works for 1 car does not mean it will work with every car, one may know alot about a DSM but doubt he knows much about 1ZZ or 2ZZ. He probably would believe S-AFC would work on Celica because it works for DSM.

Consider this you want to boost higher with MBC are you going to put more fuel into it by reprogram your fuel system? If you are not (odds are if you are too cheap to buy a decent boost controller you are not going to tune a high boost map) then you are giving your engine more air but same amount of fuel. Running lean is what is going to happen and it will cause plenty of problems. Anything that has to do with engine health do not go cheap, going cheap now means alot of money out of pocket later.

Man, that really ticks me off. Assuming im cheap because I dont want to spend 200 dollars on something im not even going to use. Why dont you read my first post where I said that im going to be doing full throttle AND partial throttle tuning, which is oing to end up being over 5 hours of tuning and over 600 dollars in tuning. Real cheap, huh? I appreciate you trying to help, but try and know what your talking about before you say something like that.






Quote:
Originally posted by EuGeNiLe GTS
DSM or not.. some MBCs will still cause boost spike/creep.. read around, do not get discouraged about purchasing an MBC if u want to go the cheaper route.. there are some that have no/minimal probs with creep/spike. also keep in mind other factors that might cause this.. porting of the mani/o2 housing, wastegate spring setting, etc.

there are also hi/low MBCs.. just like those expensive EBCs.. again.. search around..

heres an example..

http://dejontool.com/DSM-MBC.htm

yea they specialize in DSM/4G63 goods, but an MBC is an MBC.. should be a universal application.. but dont take my word on that..

good luck
Thanks, thats good advice. Ill check out that site more. The had said in their product description that anything under hi boost (13-up) PSI is going to see the boost creep, and anything below that doesnt have to worry about it. You guys have any input on that?
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Old 02-10-2005, 10:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hetts
Thanks, thats good advice. Ill check out that site more. The had said in their product description that anything under hi boost (13-up) PSI is going to see the boost creep, and anything below that doesnt have to worry about it. You guys have any input on that?
feel free to call em up.. and just tell them ur situation, im sure they might be able to answer ur questions regarding boost control with their product..
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Old 02-10-2005, 11:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hetts
Man, that really ticks me off. Assuming im cheap because I dont want to spend 200 dollars on something im not even going to use. Why dont you read my first post where I said that im going to be doing full throttle AND partial throttle tuning, which is oing to end up being over 5 hours of tuning and over 600 dollars in tuning. Real cheap, huh? I appreciate you trying to help, but try and know what your talking about before you say something like that.
My bad on the assumption, did not read the original post just all the bits and pieces on the bottom.
But EBC with dual solinoid does more than up the boost it keeps boost spikes from happening as well as control your boost per rpm so you have a more predictable boost so you have consistant run. It is not doing nothing it is doing alot to protect your engine. Again this $200 is to prevent you to spend alot more later.
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Old 02-10-2005, 01:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by cool2miketlu
My bad on the assumption, did not read the original post just all the bits and pieces on the bottom.
But EBC with dual solinoid does more than up the boost it keeps boost spikes from happening as well as control your boost per rpm so you have a more predictable boost so you have consistant run. It is not doing nothing it is doing alot to protect your engine. Again this $200 is to prevent you to spend alot more later.
If I were you Hetts, I would get a good dual solenoid EBC, but that is me. However, all I was aying is that he can spend $20 on a MBC and see what happens. It is not like I said to just through one on there and crank the knob. I specifically said to increase boost in small increments and to closley and CAREFULLY watch the boost to make sure that you don't spike. Also, I know that DSM are not Celicas, I used DSMers as an example merely to show that they are used....I don't know anything about DSMs though. I still recommend that he buy a cheap MBC (but do make sure that it is ball and spring) and try it out. There is nothing much to loose. Just be CAREFULL.
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Old 02-10-2005, 01:39 PM   #16
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Here are some fairly inexpensice EBC....
EBC 1
EBC 2
EBC 3
EBC 4
There are TONS on the along with name brand MBC for good prices. Just look around.
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Old 02-11-2005, 05:29 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by mtskibum16
Here are some fairly inexpensice EBC....
EBC 1
EBC 2
EBC 3
EBC 4
There are TONS on the along with name brand MBC for good prices. Just look around.
Thanks a lot for the help, it is appreciated. If I do decide to go with the dual solenoid, I'm probably just going to get the greddy profec. Im going to call a few of those companies that make the MBC and see what they say about boost creep, etc etc...

The profecs seem to be top of the line, right? I dont really see more people running anything other than it, except a blitz one every now and then.
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Old 02-11-2005, 10:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hetts
Im going to call a few of those companies that make the MBC and see what they say about boost creep, etc etc...
Recommand you asking EBC people about MBC as well, MBC people will ofcourse say nothing but good thing about stuff they sell. It is when you ask EBC people then they will point out weakness of the MBC.
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Old 02-11-2005, 11:42 AM   #19
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I looked on the site that eugenile GTS threw up on this thread, and they had said that there product will probably cause boost creep on high boost. I dont know why they would lie about it not causing creep under lower boost, but then say it does under higher boost. But I had considered that point as well
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Old 02-11-2005, 02:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hetts
I dont know why they would lie about it not causing creep under lower boost, but then say it does under higher boost. But I had considered that point as well
Well consider they are selling the product they will not tell you its fault unless they can not get away with not telling you, this is why you would ask EBC resellers to find out MBC fault and vice versa.
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Old 02-11-2005, 05:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by cool2miketlu
Well consider they are selling the product they will not tell you its fault unless they can not get away with not telling you, this is why you would ask EBC resellers to find out MBC fault and vice versa.
He is saying that they DID point out a fault (that it would creep at high boost). He is getting at the point that why would they tell you the truth about high boost but lie about low boost? I still say get one and try it. If you get boost creep then sell it and then get an EBC
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Old 02-11-2005, 10:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by mtskibum16
He is saying that they DID point out a fault (that it would creep at high boost). He is getting at the point that why would they tell you the truth about high boost but lie about low boost? I still say get one and try it. If you get boost creep then sell it and then get an EBC
Exactly. Thanks
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Old 02-12-2005, 08:01 AM   #23
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You are spending $600 on tuning. Now think if you bought the PFC and datalogit that would have shaved off 4 hours of tuning. You would also have full control over your engine. When you are boosting you need to be able to control more than just air/fuel to get the best tune. You need to control timing a and you need to read the knock level which are things the PFC do.
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Old 02-12-2005, 09:53 AM   #24
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And how much does a datalogit and a PFC cost? I figure about 1000, give or take 150 or so. Not getting one, and getting hella tuning done will be cheaper, and probably safer, then getting a performance tune done and then tuning by myself, which I have no clue on doing. If I were good at tuning, I would do it, but I know **** about it.

You might bring up a good point with the knock level and timing, but if I have the timing set for a few degrees of safety, and have a perfect air/fuel ratio, am I going to have to worry about it? Thats my reasoning behind not getting a pfc and datalogit. Also, I would have to get a wideband set up as well. So, like it said before, I figure it would be safer and cheaper to just get partial throttle and full throttle tuning then have to get the PFC and accesories and do it myself. Maybe I'm wrong though...
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