Someone enlighten me (intake related)

[David Draper]

I keep hearing people refer to "mediocre gains" or "minimal increase" in reference to the Injen intake, but every dyno I can find shows them several horsepower higher than AEM, TPR, RMM, or anything else.

Are there any dynos substantiating any of this or is it a bandwagon thing? I searched the dyno section and under "intake", "intakes", and "ebay", and couldn't find anything, but it may be possible that the new site design affected the search.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Blue Bomber]

They're not talking about peak power, they're talking about overall gains. Injen's GT-S exhaust gets absolutely crushed in low end by TPR and AEM/eBay (same piping), and TPR is only a couple hp off Injen for only a few hundred RPMs:



If you go even further into low end than TPR's dynos, you'll see this:



Some dynos even show Injen losing low end power over stock. Add to that the bogging and CELs that Injen is famous for, and the only bandwagon out there includes people who support Injen for only for its peak numbers. The Injen GT CAI, on the other hand, is a good intake, with power gains about even to AEM. Unfortunately, it still suffers from bogging, which is where TPR takes up the slack.

[EasyC]

lol I'll help you dave.

heres my best STOCK vs TPR run...

http://www.newcelica.org/other/dyno/tpr/Stock-TPR.jpg

heres my best TPR vs AEM run...

http://www.newcelica.org/other/dyno/tpr/AEM-TPR.jpg

and heres my best TPR vs Injen...

http://www.newcelica.org/other/dyno/tpr/Injen-TPR.jpg

Those are comparisons. There were 3 runs done with each intake and stock, then I put the best of each run up on a comparison. Same day, same dyno. There was another celica board member present.

So the Injen is mostly hype, it's not "several" horsepower over anything....its .15 horsepower.

Hope this helps your search.

[David Draper]

Hmmm......alright. Just saw the old dyno shootout Larry did and some of the others and they all seemed to be in the mid-170's, but dynos do fluctuate.

[David Draper]

Originally Posted by EasyC

lol I'll help you dave.

heres my best STOCK vs TPR run...

http://www.newcelica.org/other/dyno/tpr/Stock-TPR.jpg

heres my best TPR vs AEM run...

http://www.newcelica.org/other/dyno/tpr/AEM-TPR.jpg

and heres my best TPR vs Injen...

http://www.newcelica.org/other/dyno/tpr/Injen-TPR.jpg

Those are comparisons. There were 3 runs done with each intake and stock, then I put the best of each run up on a comparison. Same day, same dyno. There was another celica board member present.

So the Injen is mostly hype, it's not "several" horsepower over anything....its .15 horsepower.

Hope this helps your search.

Hmmm....okay.....'cause I saw this one and saw several:



Just trying to get a total spectrum view of things.

[S|Lv3rBu||et]

Why do you ask Dave?

[David Draper]

Well, I do sell Injen, but when I came on here, I heard all this stuff about low power, lag and everything else, so I wanted to see what all the hubbubb was about. With the way it's made to sound, I expected to see an eBay intake producing like 10 more horsepower or something.

Anyway, I just like to keep up with what products are out there, and last I knew, the Injen was the end-all be-all for HP, and AEM was better for low-end torque.

[S|Lv3rBu||et]

Originally Posted by David Draper

With the way it's made to sound, I expected to see an eBay intake producing like 10 more horsepower or something.

Far from it. At this point, it's more of how the intake and ECU get along together, specifically, the MAFS mount and how it gets it's readings. A search will yield sh|t-tons of discussion on this topic.

[Blue Bomber]

Originally Posted by S|Lv3rBu||et

Far from it. At this point, it's more of how the intake and ECU get along together, specifically, the MAFS mount and how it gets it's readings.

Injen, AEM, K&N, Blitz, RMM, etc. all have improper MAFS mount setups, which is why they bog and cause CELs. TPR is the only intake out there that doesn't bog or cause CELs because of how it simulates the stock airbox environment.

[David Draper]

Originally Posted by S|Lv3rBu||et

A search will yield sh|t-tons of discussion on this topic.

That's what I thought, but I tried intake, intakes, ebay....nothin'. Plus it's better to get a broader range of responses from a broader range of people. I respect Blue's opinion, but I already know what he's gonna say, so I ask everyone.

[Torqued]

Originally Posted by David Draper

I keep hearing people refer to "mediocre gains" or "minimal increase" in reference to the Injen intake, but every dyno I can find shows them several horsepower higher than AEM, TPR, RMM, or anything else.

Are there any dynos substantiating any of this or is it a bandwagon thing? I searched the dyno section and under "intake", "intakes", and "ebay", and couldn't find anything, but it may be possible that the new site design affected the search.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I think you are only talking about 2 or 3 peak HP gains (and even less peak torque), and that is at the high end - probably due to either the larger diameter pipe being free flowing or the MAF not reading the airflow right and leaning out the mixture. What you give up with the Injec CAI is torque over the power band. From what I've seen, the Injen CAI just plain sucks at RPMs lower than 3500, and AEM, TPR, or EBAY CAIs kick Injen's butt there.

[S|Lv3rBu||et]

Originally Posted by David Draper

I respect Blue's opinion, but I already know what he's gonna say, so I ask everyone.

Fair enough.

[hl'sceligts]

so are we stating that the ebay intakes are superior to Injen, AEM, TPR, etc? Unless I'm misinterpreting what's being said? I've heard also from a friend who owns an ITR that ebay intakes are superior and he's really anal about what parts goes on his car without doing the proper research.

Regards,

Hector

[hl'sceligts]

Originally Posted by Blue Bomber

Injen, AEM, K&N, Blitz, RMM, etc. all have improper MAFS mount setups, which is why they bog and cause CELs. TPR is the only intake out there that doesn't bog or cause CELs because of how it simulates the stock airbox environment.

How would we be able to rectify this problem? Maybe if our voices were heard by those manufacturers of these products, they could possibly restructure/redesign the intakes to properly be tuned to our cars to avoid getting mafs and any other CEL malfunction.

What do you guys think?

Regards,

Hector

[Blue Bomber]

Originally Posted by hl'sceligts

so are we stating that the ebay intakes are superior to Injen, AEM, TPR, etc?

No, eBay intakes are equal to AEM, since they use the same piping. So you can get $200+ worth of performance for under $50. Add my intake mod to it, and it's the next best thing to a TPR CAI.

Originally Posted by hl'sceligts

How would we be able to rectify this problem? Maybe if our voices were heard by those manufacturers of these products, they could possibly restructure/redesign the intakes to properly be tuned to our cars to avoid getting mafs and any other CEL malfunction.

What do you guys think?

Regards,

Hector

I doubt they'd be interested now since the car's discontinued. Injen already had two representatives on this board, and they didn't do jack to their intake to improve it. AEM repositioned their MAFS mount, but that only got rid of the CELs, not the bogging. Once TPR's intake is in full production (very soon now, just need to verify MAFS fitment), you won't need any other intake companies trying to improve their intakes.

[hl'sceligts]

Is this considered a good MAF setup? Or do the intakes already utilize this type of setup?

Regards,

Hector

[hl'sceligts]

Originally Posted by Blue Bomber

No, eBay intakes are equal to AEM, since they use the same piping. So you can get $200+ worth of performance for under $50. Add my intake mod to it, and it's the next best thing to a TPR CAI.I doubt they'd be interested now since the car's discontinued. Injen already had two representatives on this board, and they didn't do jack to their intake to improve it. AEM repositioned their MAFS mount, but that only got rid of the CELs, not the bogging. Once TPR's intake is in full production (very soon now, just need to verify MAFS fitment), you won't need any other intake companies trying to improve their intakes.

what is the purpose of your intake mod and what did you do? What were the pro's and con's of your intake mod?

Regards,

Hector

[DYI01]

Originally Posted by hl'sceligts

what is the purpose of your intake mod and what did you do? What were the pro's and con's of your intake mod?

Regards,

Hector

The only con I see to doing the intake mod is that you hack up your stock air box so if you ever want to go back to stock and sell the car you cant without having to buy another air box. I would rather buy an eBay intake and modify it, weld in some fins and do a little cutting here and there, instant homemade TPR clone.

[Blue Bomber]

Originally Posted by hl'sceligts

Is this considered a good MAF setup? Or do the intakes already utilize this type of setup?

Regards,

Hector

No, it's an improper setup since there's nothing inside the piping, but all aftermarket intakes except TPR use it. Some cars don't have problems with it, but a larger portion does. Here's what a proper setup looks like:

Originally Posted by hl'sceligts

what is the purpose of your intake mod and what did you do? What were the pro's and con's of your intake mod?

It uses the part of the stock airbox that directs air through the MAFS. This gives the MAFS proper readings, unlike almost every aftermarket intake out there. Pros are no bogging or CELs, and a proper AF ratio. Cons are you need to cut up your stock air box, and it requires a small amount of custom work on your part.

Originally Posted by DYI01

The only con I see to doing the intake mod is that you hack up your stock air box so if you ever want to go back to stock and sell the car you cant without having to buy another air box. I would rather buy an eBay intake and modify it, weld in some fins and do a little cutting here and there, instant homemade TPR clone.

Well, not exactly like TPR. TPR made better low and top end because of its piping design. It has the longest section of straight piping of any intake, and the MAFS sits right at the end to get the most accurate readings possible (airflow is as straight as it can get). Other intakes put the MAFS right after a bend (AEM/eBay), or right on a bend (Injen), which doesn't produce even airflow.

[hl'sceligts]

what does TPR stand for and are these available for purchase? What's the price going to be on these intake? Will they have available ram air or Cold Air style?

Regards,

Hector

[Blue Bomber]

Originally Posted by hl'sceligts

what does TPR stand for and are these available for purchase? What's the price going to be on these intake? Will they have available ram air or Cold Air style?

Regards,

Hector

Tuning Precision Racing. The CAIs should be done very soon, since like I said, they're just waiting for MAFS fitment testing to finish the final design. I believe they're still $200 shipped, and they can be converted into a short ram. Standalone short rams should also be available at the same time, but I'm not sure of the pricing on them.

[hl'sceligts]

what's the url for the website? I typed tuner precision racing on google and didn't give me what I was looking for.

Regards,

Hector

[Blue Bomber]

http://www.tuningprecisionracing.com/shop

That's Tuning Precision Racing.

[S|Lv3rBu||et]

And just so you know, if you do put Tuning Precision Racing into google, it only spits out the NC.org dyno page. *shrug*

[Blue Bomber]

If you put it in all as one word, the site comes up.

[celicarida]

i wonder how it is with the powerfc

[Blue Bomber]

Originally Posted by celicarida

i wonder how it is with the powerfc

You'll gain the usual low end using the PFC, but you'll still be at a disadvantage to an AEM/eBay/TPR PFC owner when it comes low end power. It's most likely the poor positioning of the MAFS coupled with the usual lack of MAFS fins that hurts Injen the most. The best you can do with the PFC is to correct the AF ratios so you won't run too lean. The MAFS readings will still be off, though.