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Old 03-27-2007, 11:45 PM   #1
monkeywrench
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First 2ZZ over 500whp

Well, the retune on our shop Celica GTS went well tonight. It now has a built engine with the Mahle pistons (9.0:1) as well as a slight increase in turbo size from the old GT3071R to a shiny new GT30R. Stock intake manifold, stock throttle body, Power FC. 93 octane gas.

The resutls:

505 hp at the wheels
375 ft-lb at the wheels

I inched the boost up slowly and was frustrated to find the car misfired any time I went over 20psi. I gapped the plugs to 0.028" and made it to 23psi, then more misfire. Hmm. Gapped them to 0.025" and it pulled strong through 24psi, the pressure that made the 505whp. I was also somewhat disappointed to see I wasn't getting full boost until nearly 5k rpm! The old 3071 was at full steam before 4k.

Now the funny part.

It suddenly occurred to me as I was turning the shop lights out that both the misfire and the slow spool-up made sense. You see, the exhaust gases exit the engine through a nice equal length stainless header then flow through the 30R. After that they travel through a nice smooth 3" downpipe into... the stock exhaust. Stock midpipe, stock cat, stock silencer, stock catback. I'm an old man of 30 years and enjoy the silence while I drive. There is a 3" cutout valve right off the downpipe for excellent flow and no restriction in racing situations. I forgot to open it. The car made 505whp through a full stock exhaust.

I may re-run it with the valve open

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2005 Lotus Elise (all kinds of potential)
2001 Celica drag car 666whp 2ZZ @ 30psi / 10.9@140 at 28psi / 202mph @ 25psi in the standing mile
2000 Celica GT-S 412whp with MWR turbo @ 16psi and stock engine / 550whp with MWR turbo @ 26psi on 93 octane - 11.5@129 on 93 octane
2001 MR2-S turbo - 508 whp - 10.85@130

Last edited by monkeywrench : 05-09-2009 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:49 PM   #2
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wow amazing and it was done on a stock exhaust with a closed valve. you are my hero
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:49 PM   #3
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NICEEEEEEEEE first 2zz over 500HP and im the first to post in this thread whooo hooooo good work MWR!
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:50 PM   #4
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sick!!!!!!!
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch33z
NICEEEEEEEEE first 2zz over 500HP and im the first to post in this thread whooo hooooo good work MWR!
1 out of 2 ain't bad.
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2005 Lotus Elise (all kinds of potential)
2001 Celica drag car 666whp 2ZZ @ 30psi / 10.9@140 at 28psi / 202mph @ 25psi in the standing mile
2000 Celica GT-S 412whp with MWR turbo @ 16psi and stock engine / 550whp with MWR turbo @ 26psi on 93 octane - 11.5@129 on 93 octane
2001 MR2-S turbo - 508 whp - 10.85@130
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:56 PM   #6
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no you're not
http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223977
750 whp 2zz ftw.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timm3r
I have no doubt that engine made more power than our simple setup makes now. But it was only ever run on an engine dyno and I've never seen a dyno sheet. No whp numbers because it never had wheels.

Ours would score ~580hp at the crank so that 750 would indeed be higher.
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2005 Lotus Elise (all kinds of potential)
2001 Celica drag car 666whp 2ZZ @ 30psi / 10.9@140 at 28psi / 202mph @ 25psi in the standing mile
2000 Celica GT-S 412whp with MWR turbo @ 16psi and stock engine / 550whp with MWR turbo @ 26psi on 93 octane - 11.5@129 on 93 octane
2001 MR2-S turbo - 508 whp - 10.85@130
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:02 AM   #8
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wow i didnt know that but if you compare the 2 engines i thnk mwr have a lot less parts then chris rado's engine (i think) so if both engines were to have the same kind of mods i think it be close dont you?
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:04 AM   #9
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nice!!! i would definitely buy a built motor from you monkeywrench!!!!
hopefully not too soon!
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:10 AM   #10
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A milestone achievement by any standard. Rado's setup is race only and MWR is street - it's no comparison, most of us will take the more pratical setup on any given day except sunday.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:34 AM   #11
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everyone's statements are true, except it's just monkeywrench claimed he had the first ever 500+ hp 2zz when chris rado did. i would no doubt take monkeywrench's setup any day considering it is probably a lot cheaper than rado's.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:58 AM   #12
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Smaay's 7th gen Celica should be around that power range as well.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:59 AM   #13
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congrats thats alot of hp to put down on a 2zz
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrench
.
So you ran an 11.9 with 412whp. Now you have a set of slicks and 505whp....I'm guessing you will be the first to run a 10 second 1/4 mile in a 2ZZ 7th gen. You are the man.
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Old 03-28-2007, 03:52 AM   #15
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congrats thats some nice numbers
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Old 03-28-2007, 04:47 AM   #16
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Wow!

Is this the drag car you are building or a different 2ZZ? If the latter, how is the other beast coming along?
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Old 03-28-2007, 04:48 AM   #17
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What maf sensor did u use? Is it safe to run 24 psi on pump gas? u have water injection?
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Old 03-28-2007, 05:04 AM   #18
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WOW! so, when are you guys going to start selling your own MWR Turbo kits? I've been looking into getting the old Hass/ new Turbokits.com turbo kit, but if you guys can offer better numbers, which you can, for a better price, i'm definately getting one.
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Old 03-28-2007, 05:43 AM   #19
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One word: Speechless. Good work MWR! So any plans on finally releasing a turbo kit for us? All other shops except C2 failed, this is a great oportunity for us to finally have a good quality turbo kit with the support of MWR. Keep up the good work.
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Old 03-28-2007, 05:55 AM   #20
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Congratz Matt...I knew sooner or later you would be the 1st one to get there (hopefully, not the only one ). Im not even counting in Rado's 2zz...
Cant wait to see the graph.
Keep it up...

PS: Just to be clear... No sleeves? Crower rods? Just 93oct (wow), no WI? IK24 or 27? Oem tranny? (if so, still no problems?)
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:35 AM   #21
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incredible #'s...congrats!
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcelicagts
What maf sensor did u use? Is it safe to run 24 psi on pump gas? u have water injection?
I'm interested to see what MAF you used as well
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:51 AM   #23
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Where is the manifold from?

There is a guy who bought a manifold from you, and had an extra one. I considered buying it until I saw the pictures. The one he had definitely did not have equal-length runners and the collector area was rough to put it mildly.

Is this perhaps a new manifold specific to the GT30xxR series (which is larger) or would it work with the GT28xxR/S series as well?
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:11 AM   #24
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dang nice numbers....if this it what yours did with your simple setup, imagine what LittleRockets wetsleeve set up is gonna do (good to 50 psi )

What an exciting year for the 2zz.

John
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J5ISALIVE
dang nice numbers....if this it what yours did with your simple setup, imagine what LittleRockets wetsleeve set up is gonna do (good to 50 psi )

What an exciting year for the 2zz.

John

That won't happen because unless Littlerocket will do something to the head so it wont wrap like the guy who hit 750whp on it... thats the reason they dumped the project


Btw good numbers guys
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:28 AM   #26
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damn impressive!! im surprised youve got all that stock stuff on there still and not having problems? but still very impressive cant wait to see it with opened valve at the same psi.
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:46 AM   #27
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Congrats Matt!

I should be stopping by this week or next so we can talk..

This is Josh by the way.
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:04 AM   #28
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congrats.!
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:15 AM   #29
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Impressive. Are guys still using the stock 5speed or is the worked auto tranny in?
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:21 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlitman
Is this the drag car you are building or a different 2ZZ? If the latter, how is the other beast coming along?
This is my red full interior daily driver.

Race car is coming along nicely. Should be running in a couple of weeks. It will be race gas only and should produce significantly higher numbers.
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2005 Lotus Elise (all kinds of potential)
2001 Celica drag car 666whp 2ZZ @ 30psi / 10.9@140 at 28psi / 202mph @ 25psi in the standing mile
2000 Celica GT-S 412whp with MWR turbo @ 16psi and stock engine / 550whp with MWR turbo @ 26psi on 93 octane - 11.5@129 on 93 octane
2001 MR2-S turbo - 508 whp - 10.85@130
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:23 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcelicagts
What maf sensor did u use? Is it safe to run 24 psi on pump gas? u have water injection?
Stock MAF in a 3" pipe. It's a little maxed out.

I saw 0 knock even with an occasional boost spike to 26psi at lower RPM. I tune conservatively and the turbo system is extremely efficient.

I don't like water injection (or alky injection) so none of our cars have it.
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2005 Lotus Elise (all kinds of potential)
2001 Celica drag car 666whp 2ZZ @ 30psi / 10.9@140 at 28psi / 202mph @ 25psi in the standing mile
2000 Celica GT-S 412whp with MWR turbo @ 16psi and stock engine / 550whp with MWR turbo @ 26psi on 93 octane - 11.5@129 on 93 octane
2001 MR2-S turbo - 508 whp - 10.85@130
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:31 AM   #32
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Stock 6-speed trans, LSD, RPS MAX Street

The manifold was made here, we've been making the long tube equal length units for a while now. Several people are running them. I engineered the shorty manifold you saw (I assume it's the one you're talking about) and there's more science in it that you can probably see by looking at it. It's not equal length but still works extremely well. That's the one that made 412whp on the stock engine. Very quick spool and great efficiency on the top end. I'd still be running it but we needed to build a new manifold for the new turbo.

The engine we're running is NOT sleeved, and has the Mahle 9:1 pistons. Like I tell people, we don't just sell this stuff we test it too.


No mass produced turbo kit yet, we're still building them in-house to customer orders and tuning them here. There are a couple of big changes in the works that may make the off-the-shelf turbo kit a possibility. I absolutely do not want to go down that road unless we do it 100% right and at the moment we can only do that by performing the install and tune in-house.
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2005 Lotus Elise (all kinds of potential)
2001 Celica drag car 666whp 2ZZ @ 30psi / 10.9@140 at 28psi / 202mph @ 25psi in the standing mile
2000 Celica GT-S 412whp with MWR turbo @ 16psi and stock engine / 550whp with MWR turbo @ 26psi on 93 octane - 11.5@129 on 93 octane
2001 MR2-S turbo - 508 whp - 10.85@130
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:48 AM   #33
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congrats!
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:01 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by monkeywrench
Stock 6-speed trans, LSD, RPS MAX Street
No mass produced turbo kit yet, we're still building them in-house to customer orders and tuning them here. There are a couple of big changes in the works that may make the off-the-shelf turbo kit a possibility. I absolutely do not want to go down that road unless we do it 100% right and at the moment we can only do that by performing the install and tune in-house.
do you have any estimates as to when you might have the kit ready for mass production? sorry if i seem pushy, but after seeing these numbers, i want to get my hands on a kit as soon as i can.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:28 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J5ISALIVE
dang nice numbers....if this it what yours did with your simple setup, imagine what LittleRockets wetsleeve set up is gonna do (good to 50 psi )
MWR's car is already misfiring at 24 psi, so you'd need to convert the whole ignition system to run more boost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000gts2000
do you have any estimates as to when you might have the kit ready for mass production? sorry if i seem pushy, but after seeing these numbers, i want to get my hands on a kit as soon as i can.
No offense, but you've been "about to turbo" your car since like 2005. I lost track of the number of threads you've made where you claimed to be about to pull the trigger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrench
The manifold was made here, we've been making the long tube equal length units for a while now. Several people are running them. I engineered the shorty manifold you saw (I assume it's the one you're talking about) and there's more science in it that you can probably see by looking at it. It's not equal length but still works extremely well. That's the one that made 412whp on the stock engine. Very quick spool and great efficiency on the top end. I'd still be running it but we needed to build a new manifold for the new turbo.
I'm assuming you make these out of thick-walled mild steel so they don't crack? Any pros/cons of the longer-tube manifold vs. the shorty?

I've considered going to a new manifold/turbo/downpipe setup and then just modifying my existing IC pipe to line up with the new turbo. Is that the type of thing you can offer on a special order basis?
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:35 AM   #36
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FREAKIN NUTS!!! CONGRATS!!!
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:37 AM   #37
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congrats freaking nice numbers...
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:44 AM   #38
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Dont feel pressured to get out a bolt on turbo kit for us just yet. You guys are doing well enough just testing and selling us new parts.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:47 AM   #39
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Congratulations!!!
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:20 AM   #40
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As I've said many times before: Matt, you never cease to amaze me. Great work!!
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:36 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrench
Well, the retune on our shop Celica GTS went well tonight. It now has a built engine with the Mahle pistons (9.0:1) as well as a slight increase in turbo size from the old GT3071R to a shiny new GT30R. Stock fuel rail, stock fuel line (plus return line), stock intake manifold, stock throttle body, Power FC. 93 octane gas.
Let me get this straight... out of the internals, you only changed the pistons?! I guess you guys weren't kidding when you said that the stock internals could hold up boost.

What do you think the car would have made with the stock pistons running at the same boost with the downpipe valve open? Would it still hold up to the 24 psi?!
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:22 PM   #42
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haha i saw a super white gt-s 6speed down the street at acura and im about to go get it so i can have a race car! mabye i will just drop it off at mwr!!
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:28 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Entranced
Let me get this straight... out of the internals, you only changed the pistons?! I guess you guys weren't kidding when you said that the stock internals could hold up boost.

What do you think the car would have made with the stock pistons running at the same boost with the downpipe valve open? Would it still hold up to the 24 psi?!
his car is running fine because of his tuning. majority of people and tuner's won't know how to tune that efficiently to be able to run a stock motor on that much boost. don't try what they're doing at home, you'll just end up needing to buy a new motor. i'm pretty sure monkeywrench probably spent dozens of hours tuning that engine to be able to run that efficient.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:31 PM   #44
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Its definitly gonna be a good year for the celi especially the 2zz. I'm just getting more and more pumped for the summer.
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Old 03-28-2007, 01:55 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Entranced
What do you think the car would have made with the stock pistons running at the same boost with the downpipe valve open? Would it still hold up to the 24 psi?!
The car used to have a full 3" exhaust on it so there was not much to be gained there. We were at the limit of the stock pistons I believe. We knocked the ring lands off one on the first engine at 15psi because of being a little to agressive with the timing. The second would not have gone much beyond 16psi.
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:08 PM   #46
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Wow...............wow
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:16 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse IL
I lost track of the number of threads you've made where you claimed to be about to pull the trigger.
It's 181. All 181 threads are questions. That's a lot of questions.

BTW, new top 10....

1. monkeywrench...........505 whp
2. george.d...................438 whp
3. fraugts.....................424 whp
4. Smaay......................351 whp
5. soceur......................350 whp
6. DanVVTL-i.................342 whp
7. c2gas.......................340 whp
8. Reyzin.......................309 whp
9. Keyshawn..................267 whp
10. Red-one...................260 whp
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:34 PM   #48
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wow thats crazy, cant wait to see the other built 2zz car on race fuel.
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:44 PM   #49
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[quote=Jesse IL]
No offense, but you've been "about to turbo" your car since like 2005. I lost track of the number of threads you've made where you claimed to be about to pull the trigger.
QUOTE]

I understand what you're saying, but i think you've been misunderstanding what i've been saying. I can't remember every single post that i've ever made, which is something you can obviously do and for that i tip my hat to you. Now, i'm sure i've posted a LOT of threads and questions, but i'm pretty sure that somewhere in the threads where i asked a lot of questions about turbos, i've said something along the lines of "I'm looking into getting a turbo" which means i'm doing my research and trying to learn about all my options, what i should get, etc, The only time that i can remember saying anything even remotely close to "Hey, guys, i'm definately a turbo next week!" was when i actually thought that i was going to buy a turbo. Everybody's been saying that you need roughly $8k to turbo your car properly and i actually had the $8k so i thought i was going to get it, but due to reasons that im not going to get into right now, i had to put my plans on hold. so i apologize for making so many threads with questions about getting a turbo, but i've come to notice that i usually learn when i ask questions, and there's no such thing as a stupid question when it comes to an $8k investment. so, if asking questions is the only way i know how to learn more about the things i want to learn, then ill continue to ask questions, if you don't mind.
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Old 03-28-2007, 03:46 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badceli
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse IL
I lost track of the number of threads you've made where you claimed to be about to pull the trigger.
It's 181. All 181 threads are questions. That's a lot of questions.
I thought I was the only one who had ever looked at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badceli
BTW, new top 10....

1. monkeywrench...........505 whp
2. george.d...................438 whp
3. fraugts.....................424 whp
4. Smaay......................351 whp
5. soceur......................350 whp
6. DanVVTL-i.................342 whp
7. c2gas.......................340 whp
8. Reyzin.......................309 whp
9. Keyshawn..................267 whp
10. Red-one...................260 whp
I got to get me heap of shiet back on the road and the head sealing properly. I can say with pretty fair confidence that its going to take 300+ whp to crack the Top 10 soon
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