Tuning the Weapon-R header

[DYI01]

So I had some extra money and time so I decided to go ahead and tune my WR header. I knew it had potential, but it just needed to be tuned out. All in all I was VERY please with the results. The tune is rough to say the least, with some refinement and street tuning I'm positive the next time I go dyno the graph will be a lot smoother. We will let the dyno graphs speak for themselves. Don't take my peak numbers and compare them to another car on a different dyno. Pay attention to the area under the curve. The WR dynos and Ported dynos were done on the SAME dyno on DIFFERENT days, all using the SAE correction. On another DynoJet I have used I have hit 179 WHP with tuned and ported stock header. Another note: When I say Ported header, do not confuse this for a "Boosted" ported header. This was a port job that I did on my stock header flange and also the collector, trying to emulate Boosted's work. The tuned and untuned ported header runs were WITH a 2.5" test pipe. ALL of the runs were done using the same TRD Kazuma exhaust with a Magnaflow resonator added in.


WR Header before and after tune.

This run shows the difference from when I went in this afternoon, to when I left. I was previously running on the map I had tuned for the ported stock header, with minor changes. As you can see I made significant gains in the midrange, and even lower lift to 5300 rpm. The top end I was able to gain back some of the lost power, but I gained a small dip as well. Like I said the tune is rough and I need to change some RPM breakpoints in the tune to get that dip out. BTW this was with the 2" collector on the end of the WR Header.

Tuned WR Header vs Tuned ported header + test pipe.

This highlights the great midrange gains that the WR header has over the stock ported header. It gets HP peak a good 700-800 RPM sooner and holds it till fuel cut, besides the small dip that can be tuned out.

Untuned WR Header vs Tuned ported header + test pipe.

This still highlights the excellent midrange gains you get with the WR header untuned vs a tuned ported.

Tuned WR Header vs Untuned ported header + test pipe.

And this graph was just for fun.

[BuRn1nG]

the wr header eliminates the cat though. I want to see how the wr header with 2.5" collector compares to ported stock header with cat delete. I bet the gains would be basically the same with the ported header having more top end.

[DYI01]

Originally Posted by BuRn1nG

the wr header eliminates the cat though. I want to see how the wr header with 2.5" collector compares to ported stock header with cat delete. I bet the gains would be basically the same with the ported header having more top end.

You bet wrong... the tuned ported dyno runs were with a test pipe. So there was NO cat in both set of dynos. I also have the 2" collector WR header, NOT the 2.5" collector. I will edit the original post.

[BuRn1nG]

how large was the test pipe? 2"? 2.5"? did it have a stock or modified exhaust?
and this is not Boosted's header right? so the ported header isnt producing its optimal numbers

[ZaneMan]

looks good, it would be nice to see what you could do with a nice free flowing 2.5 collector and pipeing

[DYI01]

Originally Posted by BuRn1nG

how large was the test pipe? 2"? 2.5"? did it have a stock or modified exhaust?
and this is not Boosted's header right? so the ported header isnt producing its optimal numbers

All of the runs are using the SAME exhaust. A TRD kazuma with a Magnaflow resonator added in. The test pipe is the exact diameter of the kazuma at 2.5". No this was NOT done using a Boosted's ported header. I tried to emulate his porting technique. when I did it though. Who are you to say it doesn't make "optimal" numbers.

[jst07]

What other performance mods do you have?

Good to see this. You need to get the 2.5" collector and continue. That thing should be the absolute best available, and I'd like to see that happen.

[BuRn1nG]

Originally Posted by DYI01

All of the runs are using the SAME exhaust. A TRD kazuma with a Magnaflow resonator added in. The test pipe is the exact diameter of the kazuma at 2.5". No this was NOT done using a Boosted's ported header. I tried to emulate his porting technique. when I did it though. Who are you to say it doesn't make "optimal" numbers.

because the gains from your so called "ported" header does not match boosted's dynos of header. and you dont need to come off like a dick

[DYI01]

Originally Posted by jst07

What other performance mods do you have?

Good to see this. You need to get the 2.5" collector and continue. That thing should be the absolute best available, and I'd like to see that happen.

I most likley will not get the 2.5" collector because it is a pain to have done. I am just about done spending money on the celica for the time being. I also dont see it gaining too much more.

My engine mods consist of: AEM CAI, bored TB, ported IM, Hondata IMG, WR header, Kazuma exhaust, PFC.

Originally Posted by BuRn1nG

because the gains from your so called "ported" header does not match boosted's dynos of header. and you dont need to come off like a dick

Like I said in the first post. DO NOT COMPARE DYNO GRAPHS FROM DIFFERENT DYNO FACILITIES AND DIFFERENT CARS.

[BuRn1nG]

Originally Posted by DYI01

I most likley will not get the 2.5" collector because it is a pain to have done. I am just about done spending money on the celica for the time being. I also dont see it gaining too much more.

My engine mods consist of: AEM CAI, bored TB, ported IM, Hondata IMG, WR header, Kazuma exhaust, PFC.

all those mods and you are making less than 175 to the wheels? something is definitely wrong here.

[DYI01]

Originally Posted by BuRn1nG

all those mods and you are making less than 175 to the wheels? something is definitely wrong here.

Yup, and it still ran 14.0 @ 100 in the 1/4 mile, before the tune.

[BuRn1nG]

Originally Posted by DYI01

Yup, and it still ran 14.0 @ 100 in the 1/4 mile, before the tune.

are you using drag radials and lightweight rims? any weight reduction?

[DYI01]

Originally Posted by BuRn1nG

are you using drag radials and lightweight rims? any weight reduction?

Yes, yes, and yes. Look at the posts you have made, how have any of them besides the first few, have added anything constructive to this thread or the forum.

[Seven-Of-Nine]

Originally Posted by DYI01

My engine mods consist of: AEM CAI, bored TB, ported IM, Hondata IMG, WR header, Kazuma exhaust, PFC.

Dan I always thought you were running lightweigt pullies and flywheel also, if not try to do the upgrade water pump, alt, (Crank also) Wish I had a lighter flywheel thou, but TRD is ok frees up some HP and allows the engine to rev more freely.

Have to say nice DYNO there and comparison between a self ported header and the WR, can you try and post up your WR map also for this if you can love to see what settings you have got on the PFC. Keep up the good work fella.

[BuRn1nG]

Originally Posted by DYI01

Yes, yes, and yes. Look at the posts you have made, how have any of them besides the first few, have added anything constructive to this thread or the forum.

I am replying to your posts. I didnt know that was a crime on these boards.

[DYI01]

Originally Posted by Seven-Of-Nine

Dan I always thought you were running lightweigt pullies and flywheel also, if not try to do the upgrade water pump, alt, (Crank also) Wish I had a lighter flywheel thou, but TRD is ok frees up some HP and allows the engine to rev more freely.

Have to say nice DYNO there and comparison between a self ported header and the WR, can you try and post up your WR map also for this if you can love to see what settings you have got on the PFC. Keep up the good work fella.

I do have a RPS clutch and Fidanza flywheel, but I really dont consider those engine mods as much as I consider them to be driveline mods. No pulleys for me, I am much to affraid of what might happen with the crank pulley. I wouldn't mind sending people my rough tuned map. It still needs a considerable amount of work though.

[Mochiman]

nice job. the difference in area under the curve is great.

[Vroom_Vroom]

gains are looking decent, and burning just needs to shut the hell up

[TRlPPlN]

Originally Posted by Vroom_Vroom

gains are looking decent, and burning just needs to shut the hell up

yeah really.

dan (i think thats your name), too bad i cant fly you out here and tune my car out. i wonder if i can use your map to go with. looks like you had good results. good job on the tuning.

[jlitman]

Very interesting! Are most of your gains related to VVTi and ignition timing? Looks like AFR's are pretty similar across the RPM band with the exception of lift, which was changed on some runs.

[Archer2KGTS]

Awesome! Good work... I should have my 2.5" WR and Kazuma installed this weekend (providing I install my new clutch cylinder Thurs/Fri). I can't really think of what you can do further without cracking the engine open. You can always do the AEM alternator pulley and the UR water pump pulley and not install any crank pulley. Also, maybe get rid of the AC system. It will remove an extra accessory pulley and some extra weight. *Shrug*

Good results though. If you do decide to send out the rough version of the map, let me know. I'd be interested in toying with it.

[DYI01]

Originally Posted by TRlPPlN

dan (i think thats your name), too bad i cant fly you out here and tune my car out. i wonder if i can use your map to go with. looks like you had good results. good job on the tuning.

Yea my name is Dan. I if you want the composite map I have just shoot me a PM with your email and I will send it on over. I sure you can find a competent tuner in your area who can fiddle with the tune to suit it to your needs.

Originally Posted by jlitman

Very interesting! Are most of your gains related to VVTi and ignition timing? Looks like AFR's are pretty similar across the RPM band with the exception of lift, which was changed on some runs.

I actually pulled timing because of some knock I was getting from a LOT of heat, heatsoak was an issue. AFR's stayed consistent, I need some work on the lift area to get that lean spike out. But MOST of the gains were from VVT tuning. VVT is a very powerful tuning device, its crazy the amout of power that can be made or lost with the right or wrong cam angle.

Originally Posted by Archer2KGTS

Awesome! Good work... I should have my 2.5" WR and Kazuma installed this weekend (providing I install my new clutch cylinder Thurs/Fri). I can't really think of what you can do further without cracking the engine open. You can always do the AEM alternator pulley and the UR water pump pulley and not install any crank pulley. Also, maybe get rid of the AC system. It will remove an extra accessory pulley and some extra weight. *Shrug*

Good results though. If you do decide to send out the rough version of the map, let me know. I'd be interested in toying with it.

Anyone looking for more power under the curve and not really concerned with purely top end peak numbers should go ahead and get this header and tune it accordingly. Im not sure if this header is wirth it for those without a PFC or Hydra. I dont think I'll be doing much more right now, maybe down the road i'll crack it open and play with the motor. If you want the map, PM me your email.

[143hawaii]

Eh...looks like it falls flat on its face around 7k, not too impressive. MWR's header they made for grumpy with a cheap-o slip on collector shows equal midrange gains and blows it out of the water on the high end.

[killer2239]

Originally Posted by 143hawaii

Eh...looks like it falls flat on its face around 7k, not too impressive. MWR's header they made for grumpy with a cheap-o slip on collector shows equal midrange gains and blows it out of the water on the high end.

Thats the same problem i had with mine. It went flat at 7k and as it got closer to 8k it lost power under stock ecu with stock cat and stock header. Peak power should be at 7600ish rpm, and normally stands out on everyones dyno that its the peak. His just stays a dead same power curve like mine did when i had WR header on. When i put boosted header on, i had to add a ****load more fuel past 7k because of how much better flow it had.

From the looks of it, i wonder how well the tune was on the stock header he had. Because on same dyno as my stock ecu with stock header/cat, with hydra and WR header, i could barely make more than 3whp more than it and towards redline i lost power on stock ecu, and the corolla has a detuned ecu. Im waiting for dyno day (saves me 40 dollars) to show my before and after of the WR race header on same dyno vs the new Boosted ported header i put on, which car feels amazingly better now.

[many]

Great work DAN!!
I'm really impressed about this header...everybody wants top power...but in daily life , solosprint and autocross you want a much wider broadband of power and this clearly does it's work!
I wish my Trial header made only half the gains of this one...especially for the price I paid!
Are you going to go to the drag strip now?

[143hawaii]

Originally Posted by many

Great work DAN!!
I'm really impressed about this header...everybody wants top power...but in daily life , solosprint and autocross you want a much wider broadband of power and this clearly does it's work!
I wish my Trial header made only half the gains of this one...especially for the price I paid!
Are you going to go to the drag strip now?

Your response seems contradictory, don't you think? Saying we should be impressed by his low-to-mid range gains but then asking about his 1/4 mile times.

Like I mentioned before, have your cake and eat it too (grumpy's car):

[jlitman]

Was that a custom fabbed header? ^^^ What did that cost? Maybe we should push for GB on that header design for the Celica...

Originally Posted by DYI01

I actually pulled timing because of some knock I was getting from a LOT of heat, heatsoak was an issue. AFR's stayed consistent, I need some work on the lift area to get that lean spike out. But MOST of the gains were from VVT tuning. VVT is a very powerful tuning device, its crazy the amout of power that can be made or lost with the right or wrong cam angle.

Indeed. Did you find more or less cam overlap improved power output up top? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that more overlap (advanced VVT) helped to improve flow as the design is thought to be a little restrictive.

Actually, on a related note, I suspect that some of that restrictiveness is key to its awesome midrange gains -- at lower engine speeds, isn't a narrower diameter exhaust better for flow than a wider diameter?

Correct me as needed -- I'm a bit new to esoterica of header tuning...

[jst07]

Originally Posted by 143hawaii

Eh...looks like it falls flat on its face around 7k, not too impressive. MWR's header they made for grumpy with a cheap-o slip on collector shows equal midrange gains and blows it out of the water on the high end.

I'd much rather have a longer, "flat" powerband than something that just peaks at a high RPM. And besides, where the WR falls flat at 7k, its just holding the peak power of the ported header.

[many]

Originally Posted by 143hawaii

Your response seems contradictory, don't you think? Saying we should be impressed by his low-to-mid range gains but then asking about his 1/4 mile times.

hum .... that's because that's what he does.....and you think it will not help in his 1/4 times?
Besides comparing 2 different dynos on 2 different machines isn't my cup of tea (or cake), what's important( on his set up) is the before and after same day dyno.

[143hawaii]

Originally Posted by many

hum .... that's because that's what he does.....and you think it will not help in his 1/4 times?

It will help...a little.

Besides I find it odd to point out gains under the curve but then start talking about 1/4 times. I guess it puts a better spin on things. I simply think there's too much faith put in WR's header. When I see a dead spot from 7k to redline, I wouldn't attempt to justify the gains but rather mark it up as a bad design (this is all assuming that VVT settings aren't completely out of whack). You have to ask yourself, how much experience has WR had making long tube race headers?

Just my $0.02

[DYI01]

I am not saying that the WR is the best header design, but I am trying to make the best of my situation after buying the header. I didn't have a whole lot of faith in Weapon-R's header fabrication skills, but I thought I would give it a chance anyways. Im positive a competent header builder will be able to produce a header that will make just as much midrange gains or most likley more than the WR, but also kill it in the top end. Until such a header exists I will stick with the WR. It beats my stock ported header under the curve and matches it in the top end.

[Ch33z]

Im gettin the WR header soon hopefully by tomorrow or sat and i also have faith in the WR header lol.

[silver21]

I'd like to see you hit up the track and post some vids/numbers.....

[youngxlos]

Originally Posted by DYI01

I am not saying that the WR is the best header design, but I am trying to make the best of my situation after buying the header. I didn't have a whole lot of faith in Weapon-R's header fabrication skills, but I thought I would give it a chance anyways. Im positive a competent header builder will be able to produce a header that will make just as much midrange gains or most likley more than the WR, but also kill it in the top end. Until such a header exists I will stick with the WR. It beats my stock ported header under the curve and matches it in the top end.

time will tell. good job bro, nice work on the tuning i knew it was not just a butt dyno on this header. SMSP told me to go to there shop as soon as the car is done so they can start working on things. im so exited about this project.

Originally Posted by silver21

I'd like to see you hit up the track and post some vids/numbers.....

with this better tune he should break 13s

[highlift]

retracted...

[youngxlos]

soooo whats with the torque on this? also this header stops making power at 7500

[gameboi]

am i the only one to notice that it says MRS-2zz swapped....

[youngxlos]

^^^ no we all know it was a custom header made by MWR for people that swaped 2zz motors into there spyder. if MWR is willing to make one for our cars that would be great. but im still going with SMSP

[143hawaii]

Originally Posted by youngxlos

soooo whats with the torque on this? also this header stops making power at 7500

The 2zz's torque "curve" has always been a bit bumpy. It's most likely exaggerated even more here with the cam tuning on the PFC. MWR likely tuned off of their existing basemap which doesn't use the full resolution available from the PFC. If the rescaled it a bit, the torque curve would probably be smoother.

Look closer, hp peaks right around 7.8k. If you want to shift it higher for drag racing, cams are a better approach.

Originally Posted by youngxlos

^^^ no we all know it was a custom header made by MWR for people that swaped 2zz motors into there spyder. if MWR is willing to make one for our cars that would be great. but im still going with SMSP

MWR only made one, I was told there wasn't enough interest to make more. My reference to it was that even MWR's half-hearted attempt proves to be better than WR's header. SMSP should blow everything currently available out of the water, if they ever get around to it.

[youngxlos]

Originally Posted by 143hawaii

The 2zz's torque "curve" has always been a bit bumpy. It's most likely exaggerated even more here with the cam tuning on the PFC. MWR likely tuned off of their existing basemap which doesn't use the full resolution available from the PFC. If the rescaled it a bit, the torque curve would probably be smoother.

Look closer, hp peaks right around 7.8k. If you want to shift it higher for drag racing, cams are a better approach.

MWR only made one, I was told there wasn't enough interest to make more. My reference to it was that even MWR's half-hearted attempt proves to be better than WR's header. SMSP should blow everything currently available out of the water, if they ever get around to it.

SMSP is waiting on my car to be put back together so they can start working on the project. there local to me so thats even better. im in the same boat as Dan, but at the same time have enough funds to look elsewhere for something better. if MWR made something that makes power im sure a lot of members here will buy