PPE will build us a header -- inexpensive!!!

[GTsRasta]

Some of us will go on the supercharger route.

[youngxlos]

i just want to know how long you guys are going to take to get this going. im going with something different and as remember they said it could take a few months to get 25 headers done, i dont want to wait so i want to get my header before the gb finishes.

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by youngxlos

i just want to know how long you guys are going to take to get this going. im going with something different and as remember they said it could take a few months to get 25 headers done, i dont want to wait so i want to get my header before the gb finishes.

Sponsorship is paid. Just waiting for LarryD to pull my thread out of limbo and make my name bold. I'm sure it will be up and running by or before Monday.

You're not on the GB, so you could pay right away unless you are waiting for an estimate on a ss midpipe or something. Do you need a shipping quote -- I can get that for you.

By the way -- the initial GB will probabably be set for two weeks. There may be another one after that.

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by kabal57

Damn that is a thing of beauty

Jiltman, sorry to be a pain, but I see there are different burns configs on their page.
Is PPE going to use a merge collector with a megaphone and reverse cone?
or just the merge collector itself?

For anything custom, just tell me what you want, and I'll get an estimate. You can PM me or tell me here. The reverse cone set up, if I recall what Redliner told me, is only if you plan to run open header.

Here's some answers to folks questions:

1. PPE has someone sending an an air injection Matrix for testing.

2. Yes, PPE will clean up the insides of all the welds.

3. You can definitely ceramic coat a stainless header. The ceramic coating will keep in a little more heat.

4. Shipping quotes for everyone are coming soon

[ToyAltis85]

Any new pics of the header on 7g's car!

[jlitman]

The GB thread is back!!!! I am a site sponsor!

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253710

The GB will be on until the end of the month -- so jump on it while you can!

You can contact me with questions here, by PM, or in the GB thread.

[youngxlos]

thank jlitman, we exchanged some email today, its looking good for me, so exited

[kortik]

Originally Posted by jlitman

For anything custom, just tell me what you want, and I'll get an estimate. You can PM me or tell me here. The reverse cone set up, if I recall what Redliner told me, is only if you plan to run open header.

Here's some answers to folks questions:

1. PPE has someone sending an an air injection Matrix for testing.

2. Yes, PPE will clean up the insides of all the welds.

3. You can definitely ceramic coat a stainless header. The ceramic coating will keep in a little more heat.

4. Shipping quotes for everyone are coming soon

Hey answer #1 did they find someone or are you talking about me?

I called PPE
Pual was not there
but I gave them my email and phone# so they can send me the shipping label so I can ship my spare stock 04+ header. The stock header is ready to go all I need is to sticky the label and boom its on its way to AZ.

Originally I bought stock one so Boosted2.0 can port for me but since its been on hold and it sits in my garage might as well put in into good use for the community you know.
So far I was unable to find anyone in AZ w/2zz xrs to go to the shop
only one person over at 9thgen responded who onws and xrs and lives in AZ but he does not reply to my PMs.
So I cannot wait any longer I dont know what do you guys say I do ship or wait?

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by kortik

Hey answer #1 did they find someone or are you talking about me?

You -- go for it. I'm sure Paul will take care of you

[many]

Whats Pauls email again?...i dont want to go thrue the whole thread!

[kabal57]

Originally Posted by Redliner9k

The only modification to the design I forsee is maybe going to a collector with a 2.25" choke and add a short 1.5" extension which would end up at 2.5".

Redliner, why would you say this?

So I'm clear, the standard collector on the header has a 2.5" outlet?
does the burns come with a 2.5, or 2.25", is that an option with them?
I was thinking 2.25 collector outlet, either a long or short transition to 2.5" and then a tailpipe ring.
Does this sound ok or completely retarded?
burns merge collector options

[Redliner9k]

Originally Posted by kabal57

Redliner, why would you say this?

So I'm clear, the standard collector on the header has a 2.5" outlet?
does the burns come with a 2.5, or 2.25", is that an option with them?
I was thinking 2.25 collector outlet, either a long or short transition to 2.5" and then a tailpipe ring.
Does this sound ok or completely retarded?
burns merge collector options

That sounds perfect. Good luck.

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by many

Whats Pauls email again?...i dont want to go thrue the whole thread!

What do you need? He's out of the office until Monday -- anything I can help with?

sales@ppeengineering.com

[kabal57]

Originally Posted by Redliner9k

That sounds perfect. Good luck.

Which transition would you recommend and why? I was thinking long?
The only thing that could cause a problem is where the midpipe hooks up to the header it is flexed upwards a little bit, if the collector and transition sticks out too far it might run into the floor of the car, or run very very close to it, as seen in the pic here:


The midpipe would also need to be a little shorter, it would probably attatch right where the front part of the cat is in the above pic:


Here's what I'm thinking:

[Redliner9k]

I say transition because since the collector being used has a choke of 2.5" and were using 2.5" exhaust the exhaust pulses might think there still inside the header theoretically simulating as if the header was longer that it actually was. Also going with a smaller choke and transitioning to a final outlet diameter enhances excanvenging and exhaust velocity.

The setup you posted is kind of what i was thinking, but I would use a much shorter transition.

[kortik]

so something like this then

[Redliner9k]

Originally Posted by kortik

so something like this then

Something like that. Transition could be shorter. Look at the K20 race headers from SSR and that the transition I would use.

[kortik]

^^^^what do they look like any links?

something like this but shorter

[kabal57]

Originally Posted by Redliner9k

Something like that. Transition could be shorter. Look at the K20 race headers from SSR and that the transition I would use.

well according to burns' website, the total length of the transition would be 2.5" unless my math is screwed up.
2.50 outlet - 2.25 choke = .25 X 1.87 = .46
They say they include a 2 inch straight section on the small diameter side,

so with a 2" straight part on the small side, and a .46" tapered end, total length of the transition is only 2.46" with the taper being a mere .46"

Is that short enough?

Good news is, the transitions are only about $30 apiece from burns, so it's not that much $$

So all told, we would need the header, burns merge collector, short transition and 2" tailpipe ring.

*for those that want the burns collector/transition*
Someone needs to call burns and find out what the total cost would be for the collector, transition and tailpipe ring, plus the costs of welding them together and sending them to ppe as one piece..
I would do it but I'm not in the states,

Or jiltman, could we trouble you to find out if PPE can have that done when they order the parts from burns and just tack the cost onto the header?

[Redliner9k]

Originally Posted by kortik

^^^^what do they look like any links?

something like this but shorter

No, thats a megaphone, what you need is a transition like Kabal has posted.

I'd like to add that making such changes to the collector DO NOT guarantee further gains and may have negative effects. This are just ideas I throw around, if you guys want to try it be my guest, but if it doesn't work don't blame me. There's only so much you can do on a header design unless you test every single idea.

[Celicasaur]

Mieh...

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by kabal57

Or jiltman, could we trouble you to find out if PPE can have that done when they order the parts from burns and just tack the cost onto the header?

I can get quotes for anything you want. Now that I'm a site sponsor, I'm not doing this purely for fun -- consider me PPE's oficial emmisary

But... as Red noted, this is now a different experimental header, and truthfully, I would NOT do this unless you intend to get basline ("before") dynos and then compare your baseline to whatever happens with the new design ("after").

If you plan to just bolt it on, rely on the butt dyno, and hope for the best, it's not worth doing.

Likewise, if you only get an "after" dyno, with no way of comparing the results to a legitimate baseline, I honestly wouldn't bother.

But, it's up to you. Think about it, and let me know via PM or here

[kortik]

ok what is the regular burns collector then that Paul said he could include?

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by kortik

ok what is the regular burns collector then that Paul said he could include?

To the best of my knowledge, it is a mild steel Burns collector of approximately the same dimensions.

That's not to say you can't get a variation -- it's just that whether it works and how well it works will be a crap shoot.

[hellsyphon]

Man now I have to work harder so I can afford one :P

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by hellsyphon

Man now I have to work harder so I can afford one :P

Well, if you get lucky (so to speak) maybe it won't fit, and they'll have to design a new one for you -- then you might get one for free if you can leave them your car

[kabal57]

Originally Posted by jlitman

I can get quotes for anything you want. Now that I'm a site sponsor, I'm not doing this purely for fun -- consider me PPE's oficial emmisary

But... as Red noted, this is now a different experimental header, and truthfully, I would NOT do this unless you intend to get basline ("before") dynos and then compare your baseline to whatever happens with the new design ("after").

If you plan to just bolt it on, rely on the butt dyno, and hope for the best, it's not worth doing.

Likewise, if you only get an "after" dyno, with no way of comparing the results to a legitimate baseline, I honestly wouldn't bother.

But, it's up to you. Think about it, and let me know via PM or here

Well, the way I see it, theres no way I can avoid dyno time, especially since I got me a shiny new PFC waiting at home to get installed
Just that fact alone is gonna have me spending some time on a dyno.
getting a baseline is no problem, I want to get one anyway to see how my stock ecu does vs tuned pfc. either way there will be dynos, just not till january when i get back from this deployment.

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by kabal57

Well, the way I see it, theres no way I can avoid dyno time, especially since I got me a shiny new PFC waiting at home to get installed
Just that fact alone is gonna have me spending some time on a dyno.
getting a baseline is no problem, I want to get one anyway to see how my stock ecu does vs tuned pfc. either way there will be dynos, just not till january when i get back from this deployment.

Okay.

I'll ask for a quote for the following adaptation to the basic design:

A 2" straight section on the small side, and a .46" tapered end, burns merge collector, short transition and 2" tailpipe ring.

Does this capture what you want to have done?

[kabal57]

Originally Posted by jlitman

Okay.

I'll ask for a quote for the following adaptation to the basic design:

A 2" straight section on the small side, and a .46" tapered end, burns merge collector, short transition and 2" tailpipe ring.

Does this capture what you want to have done?

**Edit**

Almost, the merge collector needs to have a 2.25" choke, with the 2" piece on the small side of the transition possibly cut down to 1" , sized at 2.25", then widening out to 2.5" on the flared side.

Summary:
merge collector with 2.25" choke.
1" piece on small side of transition sized at 2.25"
flared part of transition goes from 2.25 to 2.50 and is .46" long.
total length of transition is 1.46" if they can cut the straight part from 2" to 1"

I'd like to see if they could get burns to send the whole thing as one piece if possible, their charges for welding are fairly cheap considering the job quality they do.

You do realize that you won't be seeing dynos till early next year though, right? I'm not scheduled to leave afghanistan till jan. and at the earliest it will be feb. before I can do anything dyno wise. Dont know if that will be a problem or not, but I'll volunteer to be the test dummy for this setup

[kortik]

hey Im interested in kabal57 ideas
I dont own celica but I have matrix 2zz
although it only has magnaflow catback 2.25" and cai intake
so I could do dynos for sure earlier than Jan

Kabal ddi you learn how to speak Farsi or Tadjik being in Afghanistan

[kabal57]

haha, nope. I'm in the SE region, everyone here speaks pashtun.
I know some phrases and words I picked up from the locals, but can't really speak it very well.

[jlitman]

Hey folks -- we need just SEVEN more people to get in on the GB and the price will drop to $469.96!!!

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253710

Many of you paid about that much for an axleback exhaust that nets like 3 whp -- this is a steal! The GB is only on until the end of the month! Where's all the people who were desperate for one of these?

EDIT: Two more are about to jump onboard -- that would mean we'd need just five more!

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by kabal57

**Edit**

Almost, the merge collector needs to have a 2.25" choke, with the 2" piece on the small side of the transition possibly cut down to 1" , sized at 2.25", then widening out to 2.5" on the flared side.

Summary:
merge collector with 2.25" choke.
1" piece on small side of transition sized at 2.25"
flared part of transition goes from 2.25 to 2.50 and is .46" long.
total length of transition is 1.46" if they can cut the straight part from 2" to 1"

I'd like to see if they could get burns to send the whole thing as one piece if possible, their charges for welding are fairly cheap considering the job quality they do.

You do realize that you won't be seeing dynos till early next year though, right? I'm not scheduled to leave afghanistan till jan. and at the earliest it will be feb. before I can do anything dyno wise. Dont know if that will be a problem or not, but I'll volunteer to be the test dummy for this setup

Got it -- I'll pass on the revised specs and get you a quote ASAP

[kortik]

Jiltman above specs get a quote to me as well please

[kabal57]

oops, forgot to add the 2" tailpipe ring on the flared side of the transition sized @ 2.50" (so they have space to weld the flange on)

[7gToyotanut]

Folks had asked me for more header pics. Here are a few more. I hoped to show more merge collector welds and overall height of the system. Its not too close to the existing heat shields and I dont think it hangs down too far.

[Ch33z]

[jlitman]

Those guys over at Elise Talk...

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...d=1#post771054

[The__J__Factor]

pretty sure the Force Fed Header was like thousands of dollars, nothing from those guys was cheap.

[Redliner9k]

Lotus owners are retards... they talk like they know everything just because they have money. Funny how all they talk is about quality and SS and crap. I bet a I can give PPE a ****ty design, but make it Iconel and have it fabricated to Burns quality standards and they'll be all over it like flies on ****.... Maybe they would like that....

Send this to PPE for the Lotus header...

1.25" Primaries
34" long
2.25" swaged collector
Iconel everything
Super hot looking welds

They will sell like hotcakes over there...


PS. Awesome pics 7g, thanks.

[hellsyphon]

lol I think they're still jealous over the fact that their 40k car is equipped with the same engine as a celica, corolla, and matrix :P

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by Redliner9k

Lotus owners are retards... they talk like they know everything just because they have money. Funny how all they talk is about quality and SS and crap. I bet a I can give PPE a ****ty design, but make it Iconel and have it fabricated to Burns quality standards and they'll be all over it like flies on ****.... Maybe they would like that....

Send this to PPE for the Lotus header...

1.25" Primaries
34" long
2.25" swaged collector
Iconel everything
Super hot looking welds

They will sell like hotcakes over there...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

15 rounds with Mr. Vortex is kind of fun... kind of reminds me of the folks who defend the WR header

[Ryude]

Originally Posted by hellsyphon

lol I think they're still mad over the fact that their 40k car is not equipped with the same rover engine that the euros got. :P

Fixed.

[TRlPPlN]

Originally Posted by jlitman

15 rounds with Mr. Vortex is kind of fun... kind of reminds me of the folks who defend the WR header

your bashing continues on W/R...why?? several of us do have the race header and it was the only thing available as a race header. Yes some of us do buy products hoping it would produce the HP. im happy with my w/r race header with the a/f tuning that was done over there (not going to publish it because it was done inhouse) but i think ill be happier with this one. their street header seems to perform better than other shorty headers and you still continue to bash it. give it a rest man.

i respect the work that you and other people have done to make this one happen. concentrate on this one and leave the negativity you have against w/r. when i get this header and if i have the time to do so, ill do a comparison of both.

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by TRlPPlN

your bashing continues on W/R...why?? several of us do have the race header and it was the only thing available as a race header. Yes some of us do buy products hoping it would produce the HP. im happy with my w/r race header with the a/f tuning that was done over there (not going to publish it because it was done inhouse) but i think ill be happier with this one. their street header seems to perform better than other shorty headers and you still continue to bash it. give it a rest man.

i respect the work that you and other people have done to make this one happen. concentrate on this one and leave the negativity you have against w/r. when i get this header and if i have the time to do so, ill do a comparison of both.

I'm not bashing it. Every independent dyno I've ever seen with the WR Race header shows it losing power up top. Even with substantial tuning, you still see a big dip at about 7.5K or earlier.

As to the shorty header dynos, I haven't seen one done in a shop othe than WR's so I take that with a pinch of salt.

I'm sorry if I offended you, but the data are pretty clear on the performance limitations of the WR race header.

Actually, to be more precise, I'm not bashing the header; I'm bashing people who defend something to justify the money they spent when the data do not substantiate it.

[GTsRasta]

I thought the WR was good for the price, but this new header blows it out of the water . Think of this as the midrange AEM intake versus top end Injen intake battle again, haha. Of course the GTS shines in the top end, but that doesn't stop people from buying the AEM for much needed torque down low and in the mid range.

As for that vortex guy, he's retarded. I'm officially convinced that Lotus just used a tweaked Celica GTS'esque ECU meant for midship gas routes. Even though they make 190 hp stock, so does euro spec and Sport M GTS's. And with the exception of the Xede piggyback ECU tuned Lotus with the FF race header I posted here, their MP62 charged cars don't differ from us that much at all when they go for dyno's.

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by GTsRasta

I thought the WR was good for the price, but this new header blows it out of the water . Think of this as the midrange AEM intake versus top end Injen intake battle again, haha. Of course the GTS shines in the top end, but that doesn't stop people from buying the AEM for much needed torque down low and in the mid range.

As for that vortex guy, he's retarded. I'm officially convinced that Lotus just used a tweaked Celica GTS'esque ECU meant for midship gas routes. Even though they make 190 hp stock, so does euro spec and Sport M GTS's. And with the exception of the Xede piggyback ECU tuned Lotus with the FF race header I posted here, their MP62 charged cars don't differ from us that much at all when they go for dyno's.

He's defending his purchase of a header that probably cost close to 2 grand. I feel for him, I really do.

But, again, I'm not making any claims that are all that far fetched, and I'm comfortable admitting when I'm wrong -- I'm not in this case, so he changed his argument to "Uh.. well, no bolt on works with the Lotus ECU", which is toally irrelevant to whether or not the PPE header is superior to the FF header.

Again, even if it only matches FF's performance, I bet it does it at less than half the price.

Hell at that price, even if the FF header outperformed the PPE header by ~1 or 2%, would it be worth spending double or more to get that extra 1-3 whp? (I doubt that it does, mind you, but just for sake of argument...).

If you could have spent less than half the money on a product to get the same (or better) results, with no negative consequences, wouldn't you do it? Well, he can't, 'cause he's stuck with the FF header, so it's sour grapes all around.

EDIT: Ah, he's wishing me luck, so I guess he's okay.

[kortik]

stay on topic
LOL
I dont care about Lotus I care about PPE right now

Originally Posted by jlitman

Originally Posted by kabal57
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlitman
Okay.

I'll ask for a quote for the following adaptation to the basic design:

A 2" straight section on the small side, and a .46" tapered end, burns merge collector, short transition and 2" tailpipe ring.

Does this capture what you want to have done?


**Edit**

Almost, the merge collector needs to have a 2.25" choke, with the 2" piece on the small side of the transition possibly cut down to 1" , sized at 2.25", then widening out to 2.5" on the flared side.

Summary:
merge collector with 2.25" choke.
1" piece on small side of transition sized at 2.25"
flared part of transition goes from 2.25 to 2.50 and is .46" long.
total length of transition is 1.46" if they can cut the straight part from 2" to 1"

I'd like to see if they could get burns to send the whole thing as one piece if possible, their charges for welding are fairly cheap considering the job quality they do.

You do realize that you won't be seeing dynos till early next year though, right? I'm not scheduled to leave afghanistan till jan. and at the earliest it will be feb. before I can do anything dyno wise. Dont know if that will be a problem or not, but I'll volunteer to be the test dummy for this setup

Got it -- I'll pass on the revised specs and get you a quote ASAP

[GTsRasta]

We're messing around with the design already? Wow.

[Redliner9k]

Originally Posted by GTsRasta

We're messing around with the design already? Wow.

They are... I wouldn't.