2ZZ build.

[badceli]

Originally Posted by S|Lv3rBu||et

^that looks pretty killer.

I think they might look better if they were gloss black....



but we'll see how the flat black looks first.

Originally Posted by joemaniaci

do you guys just plan on throwing everything together?

Yes.

[Jesse IL]

Eh. If I were doing a black car, I'd do two-piece wheels with a polished lip and the gold powdercoating that Buell uses:

[boomer101]

I don't know, that 350 is really pullin off that look!!

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by joemaniaci

I have a question, do you guys just plan on throwing everything together and then tuning and running a dyno, or do you plan on running a dyno N/A with all the custom stuff, custom intake manifold, custom cylinder head, just to see what the max is with it n/a, and then throwing in the turbo and tuning and running a dyno?

I'm just curious because you guys could easily take the title of most powerful N/A 2zz and it would suck to pass up that option, but I figure doing so would just cost more money and take more time.

*I* don't have plans to go to the dyno until the turbo is on the car. The stock ECU is going on first for diagnostic purposes and to make sure we have a trouble free break in process. Then I will install the AEM, make sure it works properly, and then we will install the turbo.


Going for some sort of NA power record on a car with low compression pistons is kind of silly anyways. We'll do that with the Lotus.

[joemaniaci]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

*I* don't have plans to go to the dyno until the turbo is on the car. The stock ECU is going on first for diagnostic purposes and to make sure we have a trouble free break in process. Then I will install the AEM, make sure it works properly, and then we will install the turbo.


Going for some sort of NA power record on a car with low compression pistons is kind of silly anyways. We'll do that with the Lotus.

Okay I figured you would do it with the celica involved on your intake manifold thread, but I didn't know if that would include the head as well.

Do you plan on running dynos then with the intake manifold by itself, the head by itself, and then with the two combined?

[GTsRasta]

Originally Posted by badceli

I think they might look better if they were gloss black....



but we'll see how the flat black looks first.


Yes.

If I were to own a 350z, it would look like that, all clean bodied and with that lip. The red cues look pretty fcuking nice man!

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by joemaniaci

Okay I figured you would do it with the celica involved on your intake manifold thread, but I didn't know if that would include the head as well.

Do you plan on running dynos then with the intake manifold by itself, the head by itself, and then with the two combined?

The test car for the intake manifold (Celica) will be what we use for all our dynos to prove out the manifold, head etc.

I will also (as always) offer dyno reimbursement to the first couple customers that install the head or manifold and do acceptable before and after dynos themselves so we have them from independant sources as well as from me.

[badceli]

Originally Posted by Jesse IL

Eh. If I were doing a black car, I'd do two-piece wheels with a polished lip and the gold powdercoating that Buell uses:

I've been considering going with black and gold since the day I got my coilovers in the mail....



Right now the plan is black car...black wheels...black motor and black interior. That's a lot of black. I'm not sure if my carbon fiber engine covers are going to look that great on black.

Now take SLOWICA's engine for example...this looks good...



and nobody makes black and gold look better than William does...

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

We'll do that with the Lotus.

I would love to spend the day at the track with the owner of that Lotus once our cars are done. That would make one hell of a video.

Originally Posted by GTsRasta

fcuking nice man!

"Looks Fast" doesn't it.

[Boosted2.0]

Well if you want the engine and other parts black and gold speak now - the parts haven't been coated yet except the block and timing chain cover but I finished the head last night and will flow it tonight so I should be dropping your parts off at Polydyn to get painted & coated on Saturday.

I can also get the exhaust manifold, turbine housing, downpipe and exhaust coated in the gold ceramic if you want to go that route instead of the black and silver you were planning.

As for getting on the track with Pete and his Lotus, thats probbaly not a great idea. You'll pull him in the straights but you won't stand a chance in the corners - the guy has been driving competitively for a long time and spends a lot of time on the track.

Speakign of which, I tell a lot of guys that I work with this, but if you haven't already been you might want to spend a week at one of those high end driving schools. What you learn there will make as big a difference as what we are doing to your car.

I've had a 3 day advanced driving instruction course and in a couple years when the girls are older I will definitely be going back for another week of track specific instruction, and I may do a 2 or 3 day rally course as well.

[badceli]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

Well if you want the engine and other parts black and gold speak now

No, let's stick with the plan. Black and gold would look nice, but I want it to look like it just rolled off a Toyota show room floor. A black and silver engine should give it that "brand new car" look.

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

As for getting on the track with Pete and his Lotus, thats probbaly not a great idea.

I was just talking about having a fun day. In a race, I would want you or LR to drive the Spyder against Pete.

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

spend a week at one of those high end driving schools.

I would like that.

[redbull]

Boosted and badceli, around June I hope to have my suspension(setup for autocross) done in my car. If y’all ever have the itch to drive before your cars are done my driver seat is open. It’s just a GT set up for STS, but it puts a smile one your face for a bit and a bigger one if you win.

[Boosted2.0]

I appreciate the offer! I'm not that great a driver but I do enjoy the hell out of it. I'm not going to take you up on it though - I have a personal commitment that I'm not driving anyone elses car in anger at least till mine is up an running again (which is whats up next after Erics MR2). Having the car sitting around unregistered and having like $8K worth of unused parts lying around for it is starting to stick in my craw.

I'll definitely go to the autocross with you when I'm up and runing again though. Lord only knows what class I'll land in, (probably SM2) but its fun whether you win or not.

[redbull]

No worries the seat is always open if you change your mind. You don’t need to be the best driver either you do enough for this community so you have earned the right to drive anytime. I do like your commitment though I would be losing my mind if I had 8k of part sitting around. I don’t know how you do it. When it’s done definitely bring it out. If you need any help classing your car let me know what’s all done to it (or should I say not done) and I will steer you in the right direction.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by redbull

No worries the seat is always open if you change your mind. You don’t need to be the best driver either you do enough for this community so you have earned the right to drive anytime. I do like your commitment though I would be losing my mind if I had 8k of part sitting around. I don’t know how you do it. When it’s done definitely bring it out. If you need any help classing your car let me know what’s all done to it (or should I say not done) and I will steer you in the right direction.

I will need help classing it for sure.

The relevant info:
Car is a 1990 Alltrac turbo
AWD & turbo from the factory
Aftermarket upgraded turbo
external WG
modified exhaust manifold
3" catless DP & midpipe
HKS 3" hiper racing exhaust (straight through)
Blitz 850 CC injectors
Supra fuel pump
AEM EMS engine management system
MAF removed - 3" straight intake to turbo with high flow filter
AEM 5 bar MAP sensor
GM IAT sensor
GM knock sensor
A/C removed
Apexi boost controller
P&P head with oversize Ferrera valves
HKS 264 cams
Enginelogics adjustable cam gears
HKS valvesprings
1ZZ single-peice lightweight shim buckets
Wolkatz high flow fuel rail
Custom intake manifold w/ 75mm BBK mustang TB
custom Front mount intercooler and piping
lightweight aluminum front bumper
Carlos sainz package front bumper fascia
CF CS hood replica
Moroso high capacity baffled oil pan
Block is bored 0.020" over
Forged CP pistons with 9.0:1 compression
TTE metal HG
ARP main studs
ARP rod bolts
ARP head studs
ARP flywheel bolts
Pauter forged rods
ACL racing bearings
Fidanza lightweight flywheel
Southbend Full feramic 6 puck race clutch
Polydyn oil dispersant coatings on rods & crank
Polydyn dry film lubricant on bearings & pistons
Polydyn ceramic coating on pistons, valves, manifold, adapter, turbine housing & DP
SPAL electric fans
6th Gen ST205 transmission
TRD motor mounts
TRD quickshifter
SSR Comp 17" wheels
Currently Yohohama Advan A032R H coumpound tires (will probably change them before I track the car though, they are getting too old and dry)
Rocketeer big brake kit front - 2 peice 13" rotors with wilwood ultralite calipers in front
Goodridge SS brake lines
Porterfield R4S carbon kevlar pads on back
slotted stock rotors on back
Tein SS coilover suspension
Whiteline adjustable rear sway bar
whiteline rear strut brace
JSpeed font 3 point strut brace
Superpro full urethane suspension bushing kit
Car is gutted except for drivers and pasenger seats
sunroof and factory roof skin removed and replaced with single peice non sunroof GTS roof skin
Optima battery relocated to rear of vehicle


By the time I track it I hope to have an aluminum radiator installed, and I also hope to have a Recaro bucket on the drivers seat at least. I may also have a single peice CF drive shaft from the trans to the rear diff.

I think thats it but I may be forgetting a few odds and ends.

The only stuff on the cars thats still stock would be the control arms, the CVs and shafts, the ignition system, the alternator and the power steering.

[Boosted2.0]

On a side note - I flowed some of the intake ports last night and the results were consistent with my test heads - roughly 10% gain in flow. I'll try to finish them up and do the exhausts tonight.

[redbull]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

I will need help classing it for sure.

I will look in to it and pm you what I find.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by redbull

I will look in to it and pm you what I find.

Thanks! Last time I tried I gave up and decided to just show up and run in the easiest class I could get them to stick me in.

[GTsRasta]

WOW! You have lots of goodies on your altrac!!! Do you think your altrac is the ultimate all around altrac build? How much do you think it weighs? What turbo/boost/power you running and how well do you think it will do on the quarter mile?

And most importantly (for relevance)...how do you think the 3S-GTE build fairs against a 2zz build today?

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

On a side note - I flowed some of the intake ports last night and the results were consistent with my test heads - roughly 10% gain in flow. I'll try to finish them up and do the exhausts tonight.

NICE!

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by GTsRasta

WOW! You have lots of goodies on your altrac!!! Do you think your altrac is the ultimate all around altrac build? How much do you think it weighs? What turbo/boost/power you running and how well do you think it will do on the quarter mile?

And most importantly (for relevance)...how do you think the 3S-GTE build fairs against a 2zz build today?



NICE!

Nah - there are a fair number of alltracs out there nicer than mine - its just what I can afford.

Current weight is probably about 3100 lbs. (down from about 3400) I've taken a lot out of it but theres more room to lighten still (I haven't ditched the front carpet, dash, or sound deadening yet and the stock seats are almost 50 pounds each) I hope to get it to 2900 lbs when all is said and done.

I have a KO Street Brawler T3/T4 setup at the moment. Given other peoples results with it I anticipate something between 370 - 400 to the tire at about 25-27 PSI with the parts I have now. Should be enough to get me solidly into the 12s but its not really set up as a drag car - I would have gone with a GT35R instead if that was my goal.

The 3S-GTE is far inferior to where we are with the current 2ZZ technology except in terms of displacement. I could build a much more powerful 2ZZ for the money I have into this thing, and I could make a much faster MRS with said 2ZZ in it. To put it into perspective, when I took a 2ZZ head to Enginelogics (the premeir 3S-GTE head porter and engine builder in the country) to show the guy that runs it the heads I'm working with his first response was to try and figure out how to put it on top of a larger displacement block. Say what you want about the 2ZZ, but the head design is phenominal and the dual cam profile gives it a very nice advantage in terms of having the ability to combine idle quality and low speed driveability with high end power.


But all that aside money spent is money spent and I couldn't sell what I have for enough to make it worth starting over. Besides - I like the car - its a very brutal car to drive which suits me well. It handles very well - as long as you're on the throttle. So max performance is achieved by braking a tad early, hoping you've scrubbed enough speed, and throttling hard through the corner. Its kind of like a game of chicken at every corner - its fun. Plus it looks cool

[badceli]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

The relevant info:
Car is a 1990 Alltrac turbo

Updated my all others page...
http://www.newcelica.org/forums/show...6&pp=50&page=9
I still work on that thread sometimes. Even though it's not a sticky anymore, it might still be of some use to people. Not sure how to update the top 10 list until we find out who bought Matt's car.

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

roughly 10% gain in flow. I'll try to finish them up and do the exhausts tonight.

Getting closer. I'm very excited. Almost time to go rip up the track in this little beast.

[Boosted2.0]

Matt sold his car?

That top 10 list is going to get tough to get on if Smaay keeps selling his big boy kit to people like BT216

[badceli]

Yup. It was a damn good deal at 15k. Anybody know who bought it?

Maybe I should change it to a top 20 list. Remember when everybody complained because I had the 3SGTE Celicas on the top 10? Those guys would be 4th or 5th now I think.

[Jesse IL]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

That top 10 list is going to get tough to get on if Smaay keeps selling his big boy kit to people like BT216

For a while I was really wanting to make sure that my car landed on that list somewhere but now I don't really care. I like the advantages of a small, fast-spooling turbo over big numbers. Really though, there still is a huge gap in the 300-400 whp range where almost nobody has attempted to build a car. Once Smaay's and MWRs cars were proven out, it seems like a lot of people have jumped on the big turbo bandwagon. I'd still like to see a strong GT2871R build put down in the high 300's, but there's no way I'd even consider trying that with my car unless it just completely falls on its face. Butt dyno wise, I've been very happy with it at the 9 psi I'm able to squeeze out of my broken controller and my pretty conservative ignition tuning. If I can get the 16-17 psi I want out of the thing, I figure I should be in the 330 whp range and have an absolutely great car.

[Boosted2.0]

Badceli's new head flow results are in - enjoy

Intake:






Exhaust

[badceli]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

Badceli's new head flow results are in - enjoy

Awesome! I can't tell you how happy I am to see that chart. I am not worthy. You have put so much research into this and I extremely fortunate that you are building my motor. I will drive this car with a huge smile on my face until the day I die.

Originally Posted by Jesse IL

I'd still like to see a strong GT2871R build put down in the high 300's

300? I thought you said my GT2871R is good for 400?

[Boosted2.0]

Eric - I left you a message. I unwrapped the pistons to clay the motor and found that theres substantial scuffing on the pistons skirts that you can see now that they are clean. I would reccomend against re-using them but if you want to try I can sand the scuffs down.

I'm pretty sure MWR stocks the low compression wisecos.

[joemaniaci]

Hey badceli, since you are going with a black/gold color scheme, and since youre not removing any of the toyota emblems, are you replacing them with gold emblems?

Boosted: I searched and couldn't find anything, but what does it mean to clay a motor?

[badceli]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

theres substantial scuffing on the pistons

Outstanding. I was getting worried because my credit cards were almost payed off and I really like to stay in debt because of buying even more parts for my motor.

Originally Posted by joemaniaci

since you are going with a black/gold color scheme

No, I'm sticking with black on black. Black/gold was just an idea I had considered.

Originally Posted by joemaniaci

what does it mean to clay a motor?

Here you go...
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu.y33g...motor/clay.php
I had to look it up too.

[joemaniaci]

Originally Posted by badceli

Outstanding. I was getting worried because my credit cards were almost payed off and I really like to stay in debt because of buying even more parts for my motor.


No, I'm sticking with black on black. Black/gold was just an idea I had considered.

Here you go...
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu.y33g...motor/clay.php
I had to look it up too.

Cool, thanks, so then I would assume you're just going to leave the emblems alone then, thanks for that link, I actually learned something.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by joemaniaci

Hey badceli, since you are going with a black/gold color scheme, and since youre not removing any of the toyota emblems, are you replacing them with gold emblems?

Boosted: I searched and couldn't find anything, but what does it mean to clay a motor?

The link pretty much explained it, but basically I am putting clay on the piston tops and then assembling the motor, shimming the variable lift pin under the slipper in the rocker, and dissasembled the VVTi actuator and shimmed it to full adavance. Then you set the valve clearance, bolt the whole thing together, and spin the motor over for 2 rotations very slowly by hand and see if anything is hitting and how much clearance you have by looking at the clay and measuring the depth at any place where it has been compressed.

I took some pictures that explain how to make a tool to shim the rocker and I will post them in a day or two.

[joemaniaci]

Cool, Ive just seen people turn the crank and if you didn't get stopped by something then youre all good, how in the hell do you compensate for heat and expansion, do certain pistons come with a little note saying how much extra to leave, or do you adjust depending on material.

[many]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

I took some pictures that explain how to make a tool to shim the rocker and I will post them in a day or two

I used a spare rocker...disassembled it .. took the sliding pin and ground the sides.....and cut the end...took that piece and slid it on another rocker and glued it in place with epoxy....and voila a high cam only rocker!
A good safety measure too is too use only one layer of the head gasket.

[badceli]

Originally Posted by joemaniaci

I would assume you're just going to leave the emblems alone then

Yes. I would like all of my cars to have the same chrome emblem on the front. My daily driver right now is a 97 Civic. It's a piece of crap. I spend way too much time fixing it, so it will be replaced with a Corolla soon. That will complete my collection.

Originally Posted by many

.

I wish I was smart enough to know what you're talking about.

BTW, I joke with Boosted2.0 about having to spend too much money on this car, but anybody else would have just used the old pistons and I would have been sorry they did in a very short time after getting the car back..

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by joemaniaci

Cool, Ive just seen people turn the crank and if you didn't get stopped by something then youre all good, how in the hell do you compensate for heat and expansion, do certain pistons come with a little note saying how much extra to leave, or do you adjust depending on material.

SWAG

[many]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

SWAG

Acronym Definition
SWAG Scientific Wild Ass Guess
SWAG Souvenirs, Wearables And Gifts
SWAG International and National Snow, Weather and Avalanche Observation and Recording Guidelines
SWAG Semantic Web Agreement Group
SWAG Shock Wave Generator
SWAG Silly Wild Ass(ed) Guess
SWAG Simulated Waste Access to Ground Water
SWAG Sold Without A Guarantee
SWAG Sophisticated Wild Ass Guess
SWAG Sour Water And Gas
SWAG Sourceware Archive Group (Pascal program sources)
SWAG Southern Whippets and Gazehounds
SWAG Special Warfare Group (Philippine Navy)
SWAG Standard Written Agreement
SWAG Still Wondering and Guessing
SWAG Stolen While At Gig
SWAG Stolen Without A Gun
SWAG Studies in Women and Gender
SWAG Stuff We Acquired Gratis
SWAG Stuff We All Get
SWAG Stupid Wild-Ass Guess
SWAG Super Wild Ass Guess
SWAG Swinging Wild Ass Guess



??? take your pick...

[joemaniaci]

Ill go with the first one.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by many

Acronym Definition
SWAG Scientific Wild Ass Guess
SWAG Souvenirs, Wearables And Gifts
SWAG International and National Snow, Weather and Avalanche Observation and Recording Guidelines
SWAG Semantic Web Agreement Group
SWAG Shock Wave Generator
SWAG Silly Wild Ass(ed) Guess
SWAG Simulated Waste Access to Ground Water
SWAG Sold Without A Guarantee
SWAG Sophisticated Wild Ass Guess
SWAG Sour Water And Gas
SWAG Sourceware Archive Group (Pascal program sources)
SWAG Southern Whippets and Gazehounds
SWAG Special Warfare Group (Philippine Navy)
SWAG Standard Written Agreement
SWAG Still Wondering and Guessing
SWAG Stolen While At Gig
SWAG Stolen Without A Gun
SWAG Studies in Women and Gender
SWAG Stuff We Acquired Gratis
SWAG Stuff We All Get
SWAG Stupid Wild-Ass Guess
SWAG Super Wild Ass Guess
SWAG Swinging Wild Ass Guess



??? take your pick...

Basically you need a couple thousandths of clearance. Verticle growth is pretty minimal except in the case of ridiculously high revs, really cheap rods, or breakdown of the lubrication layer

[Boosted2.0]

Eric - these are the mockup pictures I took. just picture it with the silver head and black valve cover - see what you think

[badceli]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

.

I like it. What do you think...you think it would look better with the timing chain cover silver?

For those that don't know, we are trying to add the perfect combination of black and silver...



Right now the plan is black block...silver head...black valve cover...silver exhaust manifold...silver turbo and black turbo kit pipes.

[Boosted2.0]

I think we are on the right track. I think black on the valve cover and silver on the head.

[badceli]

I agree. I also think a new valve cover would be worth it. That big scuff mark would bother me.

I found my invoice for the oil pump gears. I bought them the same time as everything else. I took all that stuff to you. I searched every inch of all my stuff here and I don't have it. Should I buy another set of gears?

I ordered the pistons and head studs today. They will be at your house soon. I didn't bother trying to get a set without rings.

[Boosted2.0]

Hold off on the gears and just get the pistons and head studs for now. I'll look through the turbo kit boxes and oil pan box tonight - maybe they got put in there instead of the sealed parts bin with everything else for some reason. Probably should have looked in the Moroso box with the oil pan last night now that I think of it.

If you brought them to me I still have them - just a matter of finding them.

Heres a list of the new stuff I am ordering from Toyota once I get the paypal:

MR2 spyder serpentine belt
Engine to trans bolts
timing chain
timing chain slippers & bolts
VVTi gear
Oil pump (Old housing has that scoring I mentioned - I'd rather use a new one)
Crank Pulley
OCV filters
2 new rocker sets (they only come with the new stock cams - you can put the cams up on ebay)
2 new rocker shafts
crank bolt
flywheel bolts
valve cover

[badceli]

Okay. And let's tell everybody what my next $1,500 bill is for. I want this thread to be a good lesson for people thinking about buying a used built motor.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by badceli

Okay. And let's tell everybody what my next $1,500 bill is for. I want this thread to be a good lesson for people thinking about buying a used built motor.

Beat ya to it - scroll back up

[badceli]

Got it. Moral of the story...never buy a used built motor. It might not have the damage mine did, but who knows what the condition of everything else is in.

Late for work. Talk to you later.

[Boosted2.0]

This is a good example of my turbo maintenance / longevity point. Now I highly doubt this motor was properly maintained and it also had the sleeves drop due to the problem MWR had with their first machine shop so take it with a grain of salt, but the guy claimed only 35,000 on the motor. The rocker arms were badly worn, the slippers and rollers on the rockers are grooved, the chain slippers were badly worn, the chain itself was ever so slightly stretched, the pistons are useless due to the scoring on the skirts, the cylinder needed to be rehoned, block needed to be decked, bearings were worn and pitted in places....

FI motors need TLC and lots of it. Neglect them at your own risk.

[badceli]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

Neglect them at your own risk.

My cars won't even be started unless all my maintenance is up to date.

Matt asked which size pistons we need...82mm right?

And now for todays update...the sleeves in my block dropped again and it is ruined. LR is going to build a bomb-proof block for me. Sucks that this happened, but his work is a thing of beauty. I'll be very proud to own it. Anybody want to guess why I would spend the money on a bomb-proof block when my horsepower goal is so low?

LR bomb-proof block...

[Boosted2.0]

Yeah - just whatever his standard piston size is. Nothing oversized.

[badceli]

Okay, got the pistons, studs and another set of oil pump gears. I also just sent you the 3k to pay for the newly found damage. Are you sure we're going to laugh about this when this is all over? Because right now I feel like making about 5 really strong drinks and drinking them all really quick. And it's only 2:00 PM.

[redbull]

Originally Posted by badceli

Anybody want to guess why I would spend the money on a bomb-proof block when my horsepower goal is so low?

Better reliability or new horsepower goals.