Deercelica's Magic 200WHP+ 2zz-ge Project

[deercelica]

UPDATE:
Hi-COMPRESSION STROKER 2zz IS RUNNING SKIP TO PAGE 5 for more info.

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Hey guys.
Since I just faced my second spun bearing in 1 year of ownership. I've decided to go built. I just purchased my stroker kit from MWR. It was supposed to be in today, but weather might have delayed it a bit. Hopefully tomorro. Pics will be included. This i have 3-4k$ to spend out of my savings/tax return. After that is going i'm down to paycheck to paycheck. I've already bought the stroker kit minus the crankshaft. I dont have much bought other than the stroker kit.

My plan is to get the car daily drivable, then cam/pfc combo once I get the money again. I'm doing it this way to decrease downtime. It will go this way, unless I come into some unexpected money.

Parts list.
MWR stroker kit (12.5:1CR)
MWR Valves
MWR Valve springs
Ported header
Greddy Emanage Ultimate
Larger injectors (if needed) Fuel pump (if needed)
Stage 3 clutch
NX wet kit (race gas, small 35 shot, track day only, not counted in 200WHP)
MWR main and MWR 1zz rod bearings
ARP head stud kit/Short block kit
NGK AFX wideband
CircuitWorx Oil pump gears
TRD 180 stat
Timing chain kit

LATER:
Piper Stage 2 cams
Apexi PowerFC
Professional tune
MSD 6AL box (maybe before)


Check sig for current mods.

The stroker kit will be here tomorro around 3pm. Ill take pics. This is where I will post all of my updated and pics. I'm not claiming that I will make 200WHP with that above 'before' setup, but if I don't, i'll keep trying.

[youngxlos]

good luck, also dunno if any shot of nitrous is save with 12.5:1 compression

[Smaay]

good luck, i wanted to builld an NA stroker. i still might one of these days

[GT-StreetCrime]

I would have just built a low compression motor and ran a bigger shot.

[Redliner9k]

IMO... loose the stroker (NA is about revving high, not a good idea with the stroker), loose the Emanage. Get a PPE header, get a PFC, forget about the Piper Stage 2's (They suck.)

By loosing the stroker, you got enough for the PFC and PPE which are better investments.

[deercelica]

Originally Posted by GT-StreetCrime

I would have just built a low compression motor and ran a bigger shot.

The car will be pretty much daily driven. I wanted strong NA power. with a nice little addition when i'm at the track. A small 35 shot is safe. 12.5:1CR is good on pump gas (93), so with some nice race fuel, i should be able to run a small wet shot..

Oh and redliner, your advice is noted. I totally forgot about the PPE when making my wish list. How about the PPE, PFC, and stroked? What cams do you recommend?

[drewd]

Originally Posted by Redliner9k

forget about the Piper Stage 2's (They suck.)

So MWR's dyno's are bullsh!t?

http://monkeywrenchracing.com/pipercams2zz.html

[Jesse IL]

Originally Posted by Redliner9k

IMO... loose the stroker (NA is about revving high, not a good idea with the stroker), loose the Emanage. Get a PPE header, get a PFC, forget about the Piper Stage 2's (They suck.)

By loosing the stroker, you got enough for the PFC and PPE which are better investments.

+1

Also, 200whp is not magic with nitrous.

[kortik]

yep loose the stroker so you can rev higher
and piper stg3 if you going w/PFC

[Redliner9k]

Originally Posted by drewd

So MWR's dyno's are bullsh!t?

http://monkeywrenchracing.com/pipercams2zz.html

In my own personal experience, yes. I've tuned 2 cars with them and there great in the midrange but lack HEAVILY after 7500rpm.

[adosdrummer]

wait, do they lose power over the stock cam after 7500?

[adosdrummer]

also, can u give me the dyno's?

[deercelica]

Originally Posted by Jesse IL

+1

Also, 200whp is not magic with nitrous.

Reading is your friend. the 35 shot will not be counted in the 200WHP. I just won't spray on the dyno.

Pics of MWR stroker in next post

[bt216]

Originally Posted by kortik

yep loose the stroker so you can rev higher

my stroaker revs to 8800rpm

[Redliner9k]

Originally Posted by bt216

my stroaker revs to 8800rpm

Your pistons speeds are up to par with F1 engines... I suggest you lower it to 8400rpm at the most and gain some reliability.

Ever wonder why MWR do not stroke there personal 2zz's? ... they rev high to extract more power, bad idea with the stroker.

[deercelica]

Sorry that I live in a cave. Other than that, the crank will be bought seperate.

[Celicasaur]

I'm so glad someone has stepped up on this finally...

[b18b1tranny]

12.5 with nitrous is asking for detonation and heavy hot spot builds on the pistons. You absolutly need PFC if you want to spray with higher cr, already 11.5 is limit.

I go with GT-STREETCRIME, get some forged 9-1 to 10-1 cr, PFC, strait exhaust and ran a 100-125 shot, it's going to go half price and double the net hp increase.

Also, REDLINER9k talked about piston speed, he's right. With the stroking kit, you add lots of piston speed. Bad thing.

Forget nitrous or get another set of pistons.

[GT-StreetCrime]

^Yep. Why spend thousands on a N/A set-up and pray for 200+hp, when you can spend a couple hundred on a nitrous set-up and curb stomp the most heavily modified Celicas with N/A setups?

Youngxlos has pretty much every part available for a N/A setup and has yet to see any decent numbers. You said you wanted reliability but he has had his engine rebuilt several times since he started this project.

IMO this project is not going to be worth the money, even if it does work out and your engine runs well you're still going to get smoked by the kid who has nitrous.

[GSBoek]

Who's gonna do the sleeves for you?

[deercelica]

A local machine shop is going to do the sleeving and hone the sleeves for me.

I went with the higher CR so that I can have fun daily driving it. The nitrous is strictly PFC, track/race only. I'm not a complete idiot, i didn't plan on running a 35 shot on a 12.5:1 CR motor without a standalone.

Low compression ratio is useless to me, if I can't have fun with my build every single day, then fvck it. Yeah the low CR and heavy shot works nice if your on the track or only using the car for races. But I don't want to fill by bottle every friday either.

[youngxlos]

Originally Posted by deercelica

A local machine shop is going to do the sleeving and hone the sleeves for me.

I went with the higher CR so that I can have fun daily driving it. The nitrous is strictly PFC, track/race only. I'm not a complete idiot, i didn't plan on running a 35 shot on a 12.5:1 CR motor without a standalone.

Low compression ratio is useless to me, if I can't have fun with my build every single day, then fvck it. Yeah the low CR and heavy shot works nice if your on the track or only using the car for races. But I don't want to fill by bottle every friday either.

You should be running power fc on the street or the track. 12.5:1 compression is not something the stock ecu will tune it self for, causing major detonation and probably hurting the motor in the long run.
Going N/A has caused me plenty of problems. I am on the 3rd rebuild. Good luck with yours and make sure the machine shop knows what there doing.

[Redliner9k]

Originally Posted by youngxlos

You should be running power fc on the street or the track. 12.5:1 compression is not something the stock ecu will tune it self for, causing major detonation and probably hurting the motor in the long run.
Going N/A has caused me plenty of problems. I am on the 3rd rebuild. Good luck with yours and make sure the machine shop knows what there doing.

Incorrect, the stock ECU will run fine with 12.3:1 pistons... hell it works on TRD 13.1:0.

Lots of bench racing going on in this thread...

[enjoi4586]

Originally Posted by deercelica

A local machine shop is going to do the sleeving and hone the sleeves for me.

Be careful with that, the last local shop I had bore out my sleeves for me had it .5mm too big.

[b18b1tranny]

10-1 or 9-1 isn't too low for daily drive, you will loose some power and mpg, but not that much, anyways how much time on the roads do you spend in the lift? No much, so big deal if you loose 10hp peak. But when you will engage a 100 shot with hard timing, it will knock the devil out of the exhaust pipe.

Better keep your money for small reliable turbo or heavy drag nitrous set-up. The stock setting is already quite top of the line for NA set-up, you will need lots of $ to add a couple of hps.

[Ryude]

Yup, you get a really good dollar to horsepower ratio with a turbo or nitrous. N/A mods for the 2ZZ adds up quick, and you still only end up with around 200 whp which is only good for high 13s if you're a good driver.

[Celicahzn]

Originally Posted by deercelica

Hey guys.
Since I just faced my second spun bearing in 1 year of ownership. I've decided to go built. I just purchased my stroker kit from MWR. It was supposed to be in today, but weather might have delayed it a bit. Hopefully tomorro. Pics will be included. This i have 3-4k$ to spend out of my savings/tax return. After that is going i'm down to paycheck to paycheck. I've already bought the stroker kit minus the crankshaft. I dont have much bought other than the stroker kit.

My plan is to get the car daily drivable, then cam/pfc combo once I get the money again. I'm doing it this way to decrease downtime. It will go this way, unless I come into some unexpected money.

Parts list.
MWR stroker kit (12.5:1CR)
MWR Valves
MWR Valve springs
Ported header
Greddy Emanage Ultimate
Larger injectors (if needed) Fuel pump (if needed)
Stage 3 clutch
NX wet kit (race gas, small 35 shot, track day only, not counted in 200WHP)
MWR main and MWR 1zz rod bearings
ARP head stud kit/Short block kit
NGK AFX wideband
CircuitWorx Oil pump gears
TRD 180 stat
Timing chain kit

LATER:
Piper Stage 2 cams
Apexi PowerFC
Professional tune
MSD 6AL box (maybe before)


Check sig for current mods.

The stroker kit will be here tomorro around 3pm. Ill take pics. This is where I will post all of my updated and pics. I'm not claiming that I will make 200WHP with that above 'before' setup, but if I don't, i'll keep trying.

get a ppe header instead of just a ported one

[deercelica]

Some not so cave like pictures, taken with a REAL camera.













Since you all said you wanted pictures, and I really had no idea what the kit looks like, I felt the need to take and post some pictures. MWR should post these on their site . Really quality parts, you'd have to see and handle them in person to get the full effect.

[Boosted2.0]

Good luck with your build - it should be interesting. Send your block to Darton and get the sleeves put in there or possibly live to regret it.

[monkeywrench]

Originally Posted by Redliner9k

Ever wonder why MWR do not stroke there personal 2zz's? ... they rev high to extract more power, bad idea with the stroker.

A couple of reasons we run a lot of 1.8's. With a larger turbo I like tuning to make power at high RPM and shift at 9200-9500. That is too high for the stroker. Second, we've put a lot of effort in to proving out the Mahle pistons and they're non-stroker only.

If I wanted a NA engine for a daily driver I'd do a stroker. Much stronger midrange which is where the engine will be most of the time on the street plus you can lower the VVL point further with a stroker bucause it just plain moves more air and makes the big lobe work at a lower RPM than a 1.8 does. Strokers still rev ok. 91.5mm isn't exactly big block territory.

[Redliner9k]

Matt, I've done the calculations on the stroker kit and the pistons speeds are too high for my taste. For NA setups you want to rev high, and the stroker although it provides better midrange, torque I don't see it as a trade off for reliability. On the stock 1.8l piston speeds are pretty high already.

As far as lower Lift, I think anything under 5200rpm is pointless and better for bragging rights. Once that 1st gear is out of the picture, as long as you land in lift, that's all you want. I've lowered Lift to 5200rpm on 1.8's with the basic I/H/E without problems.

[deercelica]

A lot of good info going on here guys, I like it. I do like lift and all, but on the street, midrange is where I HATED my celica. I'm not to worried about 8,500RPM+, ill keep it around 8500 fuel cut.

On a side note I might order my wideband, valves, and valve springs tonite.

[Redliner9k]

Originally Posted by deercelica

A lot of good info going on here guys, I like it. I do like lift and all, but on the street, midrange is where I HATED my celica. I'm not to worried about 8,500RPM+, ill keep it around 8500 fuel cut.

On a side note I might order my wideband, valves, and valve springs tonite.

If you plan to keep it at 8500rpm then hit the stroker like it's your job.

Good luck on the build.

[deercelica]

MWR:

I'm curious to see what you think of running the motor on emanage ultimate for a while. Will I be able to keep the a/f, and all the vitals in control with this piggy back, just until I can afford to get the PFC/professional tune?

My desire it to start the car on the stock ecu. Have it run, drive it around the block, let it warm up, double check everything, monitor A/F. Then, pull it back in for the ECU piggy back or PFC. I don't want to dig to big of a hole right now, and would like to get the motor back in before I tackle too much wiring.


EDIT: Found and emanage ultimate in the for sale section. I have dibs, tell me if I can do this! 450$.

[Jesse IL]

Originally Posted by Redliner9k

As far as lower Lift, I think anything under 5200rpm is pointless and better for bragging rights. Once that 1st gear is out of the picture, as long as you land in lift, that's all you want. I've lowered Lift to 5200rpm on 1.8's with the basic I/H/E without problems.

Beyond that, its extremely annoying to drive around and hit lift constantly when you don't want to. I find that I hit 5000 rpm regularly when trying to accelerate in traffic and the last thing I want is to hit lift when I'm doing that.

[adosdrummer]

if u want midrange, then cams are the way to go.

[deercelica]

What ECU are you running ados?

I don't plan to make much real power before the cams. Its kind of a given.

[kortik]

get PFC period.

[adosdrummer]

stock ecu with cams and high comp pistons. running like a charm.
its deff not a problem getting into lift with the cams.

[gtrotter]

I dunno man, but if you go over to 9thgencorolla.com, there is a guy who just nipped 200 whp with his NA

[GT-StreetCrime]

^Sad really.

[kortik]

Originally Posted by gtrotter

I dunno man, but if you go over to 9thgencorolla.com, there is a guy who just nipped 200 whp with his NA

where and give me a link please.
I dont think there is anyone there w/200whp?

[deercelica]

Are you serious. You seriously think there is NO one with 200WHP 2zz. Its a motor, people modify it. There are 200WHP 2zz's out there, I garentee it. Just becuase you havn't seen one in our little corner here doesn't mean ****. This forum is tiny. Hell my s10 forum is bigger than this. There is a lot more out there than you think.

If I can run it with the emamange I will, then upgrade in the coming weeks/months. I need my car is the PFC/cams is an extra 2,000$. I just want it running right now. Then i'll buy the rest and install it in a timely manner. If the factory ecu can run the stroker, just needs spark and fuel adjustments, I think the emanage should do fine for a little while.

[b18b1tranny]

Ppl are trying to give you advices : anything is possible but the engine won't last long, it will cost you more then going simple turbo set-up and also give less performance then turbo'ed.

gl with your 200whp 1.8 out of a 2zzge. Remember that this is not a honda b18c5 engine and a world apart f20c and f22c engines.

[danGTS]

Plz, talk about WHP figures once it's proven ..

A build is not automatically 200 whp, especially in our cars.

Best of luck!!

[deercelica]

b18. You advice was helpful when purchasing my NX kit. And I thank you. But you're not helping me any here. I'm not even sure you read the thread. I'm building the stroker. I didn't ask how you felt about it. I want you all to sit back and enjoy some one else spending money, (I wish I could do this more often, you should enjoy this.) and answer the questions that I ask. If you do not wish to do so, why are you on a car forum to begin with? Kthx. Now if you see me doing something terribly wrong, IE: I have a Honda poster in my garage, please alrert me imediatly. Otherwise, as you see, you're not helping much.

[deercelica]

Originally Posted by danGTS

Plz, talk about WHP figures once it's proven ..

A build is not automatically 200 whp, especially in our cars.

Best of luck!!

Read the damn thread. Seriously, its not even a page long its not that hard. I said, It's my goal to get 200WHP, if I dont get it, i'll keep trying. Refer to post.. ONE.

[drewd]

Originally Posted by Redliner9k

Incorrect, the stock ECU will run fine with 12.3:1 pistons... hell it works on TRD 13.1:0.

Lots of bench racing going on in this thread...

Agreed.

[drewd]

Originally Posted by Redliner9k

In my own personal experience, yes. I've tuned 2 cars with them and there great in the midrange but lack HEAVILY after 7500rpm.

Originally Posted by adosdrummer

wait, do they lose power over the stock cam after 7500?

.

[drewd]

Has anyone had a professional port and polish/ blueprint of the 2zz head? Everyone just does internals but no head work. The 2zz needs more flow to get 200 whp.