2ZZ head flow - before and after P&P

[Boosted2.0]

I added this to my head porting thread as well but fingured I'd put it in its own thread so people who use the search function can find it without hassle later on.


I finished porting Badceli's head and the new head flow results are in - enjoy

Intake:






Exhaust




Keywords for search:
2ZZ Head flow
GTS head flow
P&P
Port and polish
ported head
porting heads
ported 2ZZ head
P&P 2ZZ head
flowbench
head flow numbers
Boosted2.0 head porting

[jlitman]

Looks nice -- intake and exhaust flow up by about 10%! Proportionately speaking, what sort of gains should the improved flow translate to over stock?

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by jlitman

Looks nice -- intake and exhaust flow up by about 10%! Proportionately speaking, what sort of gains should the improved flow translate to over stock?

Its hard to say since cylinder fill is a dynamic thing. The easy answer would be 10% but in reality since the gains occur before the cam even hits full lift the air column will be moving sooner so its possible it could be as much as 15%. (mind you thats dependant upon an exhaust and intake that can keep up with the head)


FI gains should be even greater.

[adamderry]

That's nice to see some low lift increase as well. I see a lot of shops advertise an increase but it's only at .500 plus. Did you fool around with seat angles as well to get what you did or leave it stock? And is that with MWR valves?

[ZaneMan]

Glad to see these numbers finally come out. Exhuast looks good even at lower lift

[Ryude]

Boosted, is this the Street P&P or the Competition? Really good numbers, I'm sure badceli is happy with that.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by adamderry

That's nice to see some low lift increase as well. I see a lot of shops advertise an increase but it's only at .500 plus. Did you fool around with seat angles as well to get what you did or leave it stock? And is that with MWR valves?

Yes its with MWR valves. No comment on what was done to get the numbers I got aside from the fact that its perfectly repeatable.

Originally Posted by ZaneMan

Glad to see these numbers finally come out. Exhuast looks good even at lower lift

Yep - I'm very pleased

Originally Posted by Ryude

Boosted, is this the Street P&P or the Competition? Really good numbers, I'm sure badceli is happy with that.

This is competition. I'll probably wait to post street numbers until I find someone who wants a street level P&P on their car. I'm considering doing the street P&P with confirmation flow numbers from after only - the heads seem pretty consistent on the before numbers and I only really NEED to flow them after so I can make sure I have decent ballance and airspeed in all the ports. That will also cut a good 3-4 hours off the labor time.

[jlitman]

^^^ Does the competition p&p potentially compromise driveability?

[Jesse IL]

Im not terribly familiar with reading plots like this. Does it read like a dyno plot? Since there are gains in flow at all lifts, does this mean that you would expect no torque losses at any rpm? Would that also then imply that the street port job simply would reshape that curve?

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by jlitman

^^^ Does the competition p&p potentially compromise driveability?

No, its just more work so its going to be more expensive.

Originally Posted by Jesse IL

Im not terribly familiar with reading plots like this. Does it read like a dyno plot? Since there are gains in flow at all lifts, does this mean that you would expect no torque losses at any rpm? Would that also then imply that the street port job simply would reshape that curve?

Yup - the street port will just be less gains by a little bit and a different shape to the curve. There are a few things we found that make flow but take an awfully long time to do and use a lot more media, so they will not be part of the street port. They mainly affect flow at higher lifts so the bottom half of the curve won't be too much different. The other thing that is a big part of the competition port is polishing the combustion chamber which does not affect flow, but supresses detonation which lets you run more timing.

The full competition port job will also require me to have the intake and exhaust manifolds for port matching. I can do it without them, but it will require the customer to make some tweaks to manifold position and shape of the inlets so its probably best to let me do it.

My current pricing structure is looking like probably $1000 for the Street P&P $1500 for the competition port without full port matching, and somewhere ebtween $1750 and $2000 for the competition port with full port and gasket matching. I have to run a few time studies as I do more heads to cement the times but the prices will be as posted or less.

As usual my first head for various applications (N/A, Turbo, S/C) will come with heavy refund incentives assuming I can get good quality before and after dynos from whoever I do them for. I'm thinking probably a 50% refund upon delivery of useable dynos covering the full rev range in 3rd or 4th gear from the same dynojet dyno. Obviously I will need run files and temperature conditions should be rimilar between the runs.

[ZaneMan]

I'd be intrested in doing some dyno's for you. Of course so would the rest of the forum

[Boosted2.0]

FYI - the air injection heads have an inherent flow disadvantage compared to the 00-02 GTS heads on the exhaust side. I don't recall when your car was built, but the air injection ports introduce a LOT of turbulence in the exhaust. I haven't played around with it yet, but if you have an air injection head and you're willing to loose the air injection system I would reccomend buying an 00-02 Head to use for porting. This will also keep you from having downtime.

I've worked with you before, but I think I promised Shizuma first crack at the NA heads - if he still wants it its his, otherwise I'll be happy to work with you.

Were you thinking competition or street?

[Illusive]

makes me wish I still had my celica.

[00silverGTS6spd]

will be interesting to see how the increased flow is reflected on the dynos.

[drewd]

I hope someone does this the right way and builds a complete N/A motor to see what the 2zz can do..

[Jesse IL]

I'm still planning on working with you on this once I get my car tuned on the current setup. Right now I want to get my car back up and running, use it this summer and get the before dyno, then pull it back down in the fall for some additional work including this. By that point I think my 3rd gear is going to be ready for David as well.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by drewd

I hope someone does this the right way and builds a complete N/A motor to see what the 2zz can do..

Its already built and sitting in the Lotus in LRs garage.

Its a 1.8L 2ZZ with LR's bombproof bottom end, 14.5:1 pistons, Crower rods (I think), lightened crank, light flywheel, custom underdrive pulleys with a big underdrive on the alternator, MWR valves and springs, LR P&Ped the head (same method I use), Piper stage 3 cams, race header, Brisk NA performance plugs (the silver core ones), Custom Power FC wiring we did, and it WILL have one of our new intake manifolds with a 84MM TB. Also has the MWR oil pump & oil pan. It also has all of the polydyn coatings possible (oil dispersant on rods and crank, dry film on bearings and pistons skirts, ceramic on valves, piston tops, and underside of head, dry film in cam journals)

It will run exclusively unleaded race gas (somewhere between 100 - 103 octane) and the redline is going to be just shy of 10,000 RPM.

The motor is built and in the car now. All it lacks is the intake manifold.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by Jesse IL

I'm still planning on working with you on this once I get my car tuned on the current setup. Right now I want to get my car back up and running, use it this summer and get the before dyno, then pull it back down in the fall for some additional work including this. By that point I think my 3rd gear is going to be ready for David as well.

Cool.

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

Its already built and sitting in the Lotus in LRs garage.

Its a 1.8L 2ZZ with LR's bombproof bottom end, 14.5:1 pistons, Crower rods (I think), lightened crank, light flywheel, custom underdrive pulleys with a big underdrive on the alternator, MWR valves and springs, LR P&Ped the head (same method I use), Piper stage 3 cams, race header, Brisk NA performance plugs (the silver core ones), Custom Power FC wiring we did, and it WILL have one of our new intake manifolds with a 84MM TB. Also has the MWR oil pump & oil pan. It also has all of the polydyn coatings possible (oil dispersant on rods and crank, dry film on bearings and pistons skirts, ceramic on valves, piston tops, and underside of head, dry film in cam journals)

It will run exclusively unleaded race gas (somewhere between 100 - 103 octane) and the redline is going to be just shy of 10,000 RPM.

The motor is built and in the car now. All it lacks is the intake manifold.

Good lord -- that's going to do some impressive things on the track mated to a Lotus!

[ZaneMan]

I have an early 03 before the air injection came out. I don't think I even have the block off tabs on my header. Would this require buying MRW valves? I'd also have to ship you my ppe and my manifold right? I'd be intrested in full competition porting. I'll just wait to hear about shizuma he has dibs but just let me know.

[supergoat]

Looks like some great progress!

[GSBoek]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

Its already built and sitting in the Lotus in LRs garage.

Its a 1.8L 2ZZ with LR's bombproof bottom end, 14.5:1 pistons, Crower rods (I think), lightened crank, light flywheel, custom underdrive pulleys with a big underdrive on the alternator, MWR valves and springs, LR P&Ped the head (same method I use), Piper stage 3 cams, race header, Brisk NA performance plugs (the silver core ones), Custom Power FC wiring we did, and it WILL have one of our new intake manifolds with a 84MM TB. Also has the MWR oil pump & oil pan. It also has all of the polydyn coatings possible (oil dispersant on rods and crank, dry film on bearings and pistons skirts, ceramic on valves, piston tops, and underside of head, dry film in cam journals)

It will run exclusively unleaded race gas (somewhere between 100 - 103 octane) and the redline is going to be just shy of 10,000 RPM.

The motor is built and in the car now. All it lacks is the intake manifold.

I want.

[Redliner9k]

Nice work Boosted. Good gains.

[ekindbest]

nice

[CHRISZN]

sup boosted .... i dont mind sending my cylinder head to you... wat would it cost to do ??

[Celica GT Layne]

great gains thats all i need now

[youngxlos]

Originally Posted by CHRISZN

sup boosted .... i dont mind sending my cylinder head to you... wat would it cost to do ??

Did you even care to read?
He clearly posted pricing on the post he quoted Jesse.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by Redliner9k

Nice work Boosted. Good gains.

Thanks! Did you ever get that ECU deal sorted out for the Corolla?

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by ZaneMan

I have an early 03 before the air injection came out. I don't think I even have the block off tabs on my header. Would this require buying MRW valves? I'd also have to ship you my ppe and my manifold right? I'd be intrested in full competition porting. I'll just wait to hear about shizuma he has dibs but just let me know.

Cool. I'll drop him a PM and let you know.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by ZaneMan

I have an early 03 before the air injection came out. I don't think I even have the block off tabs on my header. Would this require buying MRW valves? I'd also have to ship you my ppe and my manifold right? I'd be intrested in full competition porting. I'll just wait to hear about shizuma he has dibs but just let me know.

I just checked and Shizuma is F/I so this is all you.

DO you have a P&P TB BTW? Might not be a bad idea to get one if you don't and I'll port match that to the intake while we're at it as part of the deal.

MWR valves are not required but they do help flow and they don't mushroom when used with heavy springs at high revs. If you plan to spin above 8500 (which you probably will with the new head work) I highly reccomend the MWR valves and springs.

I can also set your valve clearance for new cams at the same time if you want to send a set.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by CHRISZN

sup boosted .... i dont mind sending my cylinder head to you... wat would it cost to do ??

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

No, its just more work so its going to be more expensive.



Yup - the street port will just be less gains by a little bit and a different shape to the curve. There are a few things we found that make flow but take an awfully long time to do and use a lot more media, so they will not be part of the street port. They mainly affect flow at higher lifts so the bottom half of the curve won't be too much different. The other thing that is a big part of the competition port is polishing the combustion chamber which does not affect flow, but supresses detonation which lets you run more timing.

The full competition port job will also require me to have the intake and exhaust manifolds for port matching. I can do it without them, but it will require the customer to make some tweaks to manifold position and shape of the inlets so its probably best to let me do it.

My current pricing structure is looking like probably $1000 for the Street P&P $1500 for the competition port without full port matching, and somewhere ebtween $1750 and $2000 for the competition port with full port and gasket matching. I have to run a few time studies as I do more heads to cement the times but the prices will be as posted or less.

As usual my first head for various applications (N/A, Turbo, S/C) will come with heavy refund incentives assuming I can get good quality before and after dynos from whoever I do them for. I'm thinking probably a 50% refund upon delivery of useable dynos covering the full rev range in 3rd or 4th gear from the same dynojet dyno. Obviously I will need run files and temperature conditions should be rimilar between the runs.

I don't really know what shipping will cost though - probably a grip if you're in Africa - if you get me your shipping info in a PM I'll check it out.

[Shizuma]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

I just checked and Shizuma is F/I so this is all you.

DO you have a P&P TB BTW? Might not be a bad idea to get one if you don't and I'll port match that to the intake while we're at it as part of the deal.

MWR valves are not required but they do help flow and they don't mushroom when used with heavy springs at high revs. If you plan to spin above 8500 (which you probably will with the new head work) I highly reccomend the MWR valves and springs.

I can also set your valve clearance for new cams at the same time if you want to send a set.

Yep, F/I fpr me, Boosted, the other thing I wanted to ask is this: I'm running a q45 tb on my intake manifold...if I get the P&P would a simple before and after dyno be sufficient or would you want me to go ahead and swap the stock tb and intake manifold on as well?

[deercelica]

Originally Posted by drewd

I hope someone does this the right way and builds a complete N/A motor to see what the 2zz can do..

I might be a little slow, but I'm working on it!

[youngxlos]

Originally Posted by drewd

I hope someone does this the right way and builds a complete N/A motor to see what the 2zz can do..

Where have you been? There is plenty of N/A builds that have been going on build from the pass year. it just takes a ton of time when you don’t have the right people to work with.

[youngxlos]

boosted great freaking job bro, dont worry i havent forgot about about what we talked about. its just taking a ton of time for me to come up with the money now.....

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by Shizuma

Yep, F/I fpr me, Boosted, the other thing I wanted to ask is this: I'm running a q45 tb on my intake manifold...if I get the P&P would a simple before and after dyno be sufficient or would you want me to go ahead and swap the stock tb and intake manifold on as well?

simple before and afters is fine. You may get slightly better gains because of the Throttle body but thats fine by me.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by youngxlos

boosted great freaking job bro, dont worry i havent forgot about about what we talked about. its just taking a ton of time for me to come up with the money now.....

No worries. I'm not going anywhere.

[ZaneMan]

So I would send the head with the cams and valves still attached? I've never pulled a head befor so I'm a bit scared of what to do.

[adamderry]

Boosted, any comment on the volume increase?

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by ZaneMan

So I would send the head with the cams and valves still attached? I've never pulled a head befor so I'm a bit scared of what to do.

Valves yes, cams no. You never want to ship a head with the cams bolted in as they always hold at least a couple of cylinders worth of valves open. The cams would need to be protected or shipped seperately.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by adamderry

Boosted, any comment on the volume increase?

Do you mean the volume of flow, the port volume or the sound / tone of the engine?

SCFM is obviously an indicator of the change to volume of flow.

The Port volume does increase obviously. Not horribly much in the street port but a fairly significant amount in the competition port job.

Airspeed remains constant or increases everywhere in the port.

Combustion chamber volume is not affected significantly by the smoothing or polishing that accompanies the competition P&P

The sound quality is something I can't comment on just yet as I haven't heard one strapped on a block and running yet. I assume the high RPM noises it emits will sound very nice, but actual decibel level shouldn't be too different. The fact that the flow is more ballanced between cylinders should make the sound a little smoother though.

[kortik]

Boosted do you recomend non air injected head?
what to do if I have 03+ 2zz w/air injection ports block them or get a 00-02 head?

[adosdrummer]

hey boosted, just a quick question...
david has already done a light portand polish on my head, and i already have mwr valves and springs...
about how much am i looking at for the head to be refinished with the compition head job...?

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by kortik

Boosted do you recomend non air injected head?
what to do if I have 03+ 2zz w/air injection ports block them or get a 00-02 head?

Easiest thing is to get the non air-injection head from a used 00-early 03. I can lessen the turbulence from the air injection ports but not totally eliminate it.

If you want to keep the air injection thats not a problem, I doubt the difference after porting will be HUGE, so you should still get great gains with it, just not quite as good.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by adosdrummer

hey boosted, just a quick question...
david has already done a light portand polish on my head, and i already have mwr valves and springs...
about how much am i looking at for the head to be refinished with the compition head job...?

Save your money for the intake manifold

I'm not sure what all David did on your head so I can't say for sure. Probably somewhere around $750 assuming you mean to JUST do the head work but it depends how much was done. I'll have to ask David to know for sure.

Did your valves damage the combustion chambers significantly during your over-rev? If so you probably want to start with a new head to avoid any potential sources of preignition. That would mean full pop, but also close to no down time.

[Boosted2.0]

Zaneman isn't able to do the P&P right now as he needs to get some valves & springs and whatnot so I'm back to having no-one for NA. I'll probably use the GTS we built for the Intake manifold test car as a test mule for the head work as well.

[adosdrummer]

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

Save your money for the intake manifold

I'm not sure what all David did on your head so I can't say for sure. Probably somewhere around $750 assuming you mean to JUST do the head work but it depends how much was done. I'll have to ask David to know for sure.

Did your valves damage the combustion chambers significantly during your over-rev? If so you probably want to start with a new head to avoid any potential sources of preignition. That would mean full pop, but also close to no down time.

i dont think it damaged the cobustion chambers... but u could ask david like u said above.

any ideal when the new manifold will be coming out? david said we were going to try to see if the matrix manifold would fit under the gts hood...

[Ryude]

The matrix manifold is kind of bulky, I removed it when installing the hondata img. I have never seen the celica version though, so it may actually be smaller. On the plus side, it's really light. The tank and the runners can be seperated on the matrix manifold, not sure if the celica is cast as 1 piece or not.

[Boosted2.0]

Celica is a 1 peice manifold. Matrix manifold did fit under the hood but put the throttle body in a place that made it basically impossible to run an intake to it in a sensible fashion.

[adosdrummer]

what about the stock airbox? is it possible...?
im trying to see how much power i can make and still be considered stock by anyone that glances at my car...