Liquid-Air Intercooler setup, questions

ano · 10-12-2009, 06:23 PM

I ve decided to go Liquid-air rather than air-air intercooling, to gain some extra throttle (manual GT btw, 6-speed)
I ve been around the web trying to gather some info and I ended going with PWR Barrel Intercooler.

My piping setup will be similar to the following pic(but throttle body will be immediately before the inlet manifold etc)

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9...mage000031.jpg

My questions are:

1. Will the 4" X 10" PWR barrel fit in the car? What modifications will be required? (actual measures: 4" x 16")
I have a good offer in this size, this is why I am asking.
2. Do I need a 2nd radiator to run the setup, OR could I just add another fan and connect the electric water pump to the oem one?
3. If a second radiator is required, what size fits without further modifications on the car?
4. In case that I decide to remove the oem fan, which "thin" ones do you recommend and what size?

I am looking forward to your replies peeps

ano · 10-13-2009, 06:42 AM

I am either in the wrong section, or this setup is so unique that hardly anyone will be familiar with it and post some opinion

**Smaay** · 10-13-2009, 07:25 AM

it is recommend to have a heat exchanger with a fan on it. i cant see your pictures so i dont know what the intercooler looks like

ano · 10-13-2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smaay

it is recommend to have a heat exchanger with a fan on it. i cant see your pictures so i dont know what the intercooler looks like

Can you advice me the size of the heat exchanger that I should get? I would like to put it infront of the radiator but without removing the "crash bar" if this is possible.

The picture shows an M45 S/C, very similar to M62 in size, with the piping going:
downwards --> 90' turn to right --> straight (this is where i dont know whether I can fit the barrel ic with size 4x16) --> 90' turn upwards directed towards inlet manifold.
I hope this can give you the picture

PRRedCelicaGT · 10-14-2009, 09:49 AM

I have a setup similar to that... my heat exchanger is about 10"x32"x3"....just look for the dimensions of a regular air to air intercooler that fits the celi and you would be fine....

ano · 10-15-2009, 03:47 AM

^^^ I ve seen celicas with max 7" length intercooler. As I see yours is 10". Did you manage to fit it without removing the crash bar? A pic might help if you have one around

Shizuma · 10-15-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ano

My questions are:

1. Will the 4" X 10" PWR barrel fit in the car? What modifications will be required? (actual measures: 4" x 16")
I have a good offer in this size, this is why I am asking.
2. Do I need a 2nd radiator to run the setup, OR could I just add another fan and connect the electric water pump to the oem one?
3. If a second radiator is required, what size fits without further modifications on the car?
4. In case that I decide to remove the oem fan, which "thin" ones do you recommend and what size?

I am looking forward to your replies peeps

I did a similar setup in a friend's Exige S...

1) It should, Jlitman is running his where his battery used to be I believe... packaging shouldn't be too big for a cylinder.

2) You need a secondary heat exchanger, easiest place to put it is where the OEM fogs would go or right behind them in the space between the wheel well and the front bumper (this is where I've located my power steering cooler and oil cooler)

3) See above, you can fit a fairly big cooler in there.

4) Don't remove the OEM fans, they're very good at what they do.

The main thing to keep in mind is how much your pump can flow, as this will be the determining factor in how long your lines can be, how large their diameter can be, etc. Also, you're going to be shooting for a happy medium as well, you don't want the water to flow through the I/C too fast that it can't soak heat, but you don't want it to go too slow that it doesn't do it's job either.

GT-Swiss · 10-15-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smaay

it is recommend to have a heat exchanger with a fan on it. i cant see your pictures so i dont know what the intercooler looks like

I even can't imagine how it should work w/o heat exchanger and fan on it? Would the pump just always pump hot water through the air2water?

@ano: I bought mine at www.frozenboost.com, it's much cheaper there with a wide choice and they have also other parts for you e.g BOV, Clamps, Couplers, Gauges etc...

Shizuma · 10-15-2009, 08:47 AM

^ I think he was thinking you could circulate it through the stock radiator...which by the way you can't...ambient temps on the surface of the radiator are frequently above 100 degrees F. If you're "cooling" your intake charge with that, you're in trouble....unless you're in Alaska....in winter

ano · 10-15-2009, 11:34 AM

Thanks guys for your reply, I really appreciate it.

@Shizuma
You are right that I was thinking whether it was possible to use the stock radiator for the circulation or not. Since this is a very very bad idea, I won't do it. I live in Cyprus, a country that has 3 months with >40 degrees Celsius

@GT-Swiss
Now that you posted that link I feel better. This is the one that I found and gave me the push to decide liquid/air against air/air intercooler. I am planning to order my heat exchanger from them. Do you use their fan by any chance? I was wondering whether it is loud or silent

About the pump:
The pump that I ll use is a Bosch (this one)
Can you please give me an advice of what I should buy in order to get a proper circulation?

Btw, I am planning to put the PWR barrel next to the stock fans. Would this cause insufficiency of the cooling setup?

ano · 10-16-2009, 03:35 PM

Finally I managed to close the deal of the PWR barrel and a Bosch water pump.
Here are some pics to get the idea:

Can you guys help me out choosing the right heat exchanger and fan(s)?

PWR Barrel:
Dimensions: 4"x10" kit
Overall Length (From End Tank to End Tank): 15.75"
Horsepower : 300
CFM : 390

Bosch water pump:

Shizuma · 10-16-2009, 04:38 PM

I think that's the same pump I used...anyway as for the heat exchanger it depends on where you're going to put it, if you go for in the front of the car I'd go with something long and skinny a la Cobra Mustang. If you're going to go for the fender area I'd go with something with a thick core but more moderate dimensions. As for the fans you should be able to use whatever as long as you set them up correctly and aren't trying to push airflow agains the direction it would naturally go (ie, if you put your exchanger on the front of the car, don't put pusher fans facing outward).

ano · 10-16-2009, 06:08 PM

^^^
1. Long and skinny --> link?

2. For the fans, I ve just got a reply from a seller that in case I go with the long and skinny one, I do not need fans, because the stock fans will do the job. How true is that?

3. As far as the fender position, is there anyone that could post a pic with similar setup? I can't picture how this setuo is possible

4. Here I have some thoughts for the PWR barrel position and I would like to get back some comments:

ano · 10-19-2009, 05:39 AM

up

hombredelassrta · 10-19-2009, 10:05 AM

i'm slightly confused on the pics. is the core before the blower in pic 1?

Shizuma · 10-19-2009, 10:14 AM

The PWR barrel need to go between the s/c and the throttle plate. The radiator you posted in the URL seems fine, and I'll try and find pics of my oil cooler setup though I'm not sure if they're still up anymore.

ano · 10-19-2009, 11:53 AM

In both pics I have Induction ---> S/C ---> PWR Barrel Intercooler
I didn't put heat exchanger, bov, maf, throttle body etc because I understood where I should put them and how.

My question is whether, in setup 1, water will be overheated due to the barrel intercooler position. That's all

Shizuma · 10-19-2009, 12:29 PM

Are you talking about heatsoak from the radiator? I'm not sure you can put it anywhere else besides where the battery is now. If you're really worried about it or notice heatsoak occurring make a heat shield or insulate the barrel....or both.

ano · 10-19-2009, 01:49 PM

yep, i am speaking about heat stroke. I ll see what I shall do after I get the parts on my hands. Thanks for the advice

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10-12-2009, 06:23 PM	#1
ano Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cyprus Posts: 221 iTrader: (2)	Liquid-Air Intercooler setup, questions I ve decided to go Liquid-air rather than air-air intercooling, to gain some extra throttle (manual GT btw, 6-speed) I ve been around the web trying to gather some info and I ended going with PWR Barrel Intercooler. My piping setup will be similar to the following pic(but throttle body will be immediately before the inlet manifold etc) http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9...mage000031.jpg My questions are: 1. Will the 4" X 10" PWR barrel fit in the car? What modifications will be required? (actual measures: 4" x 16") I have a good offer in this size, this is why I am asking. 2. Do I need a 2nd radiator to run the setup, OR could I just add another fan and connect the electric water pump to the oem one? 3. If a second radiator is required, what size fits without further modifications on the car? 4. In case that I decide to remove the oem fan, which "thin" ones do you recommend and what size? I am looking forward to your replies peeps __________________ ........I should never let you go........ Last edited by ano : 10-13-2009 at 07:36 AM.

10-13-2009, 06:42 AM	#2
ano Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cyprus Posts: 221 iTrader: (2)	I am either in the wrong section, or this setup is so unique that hardly anyone will be familiar with it and post some opinion __________________ ........I should never let you go........

10-13-2009, 07:25 AM	#3
Smaay FIRE IN THE HOLE!!!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Palmdale, RIP LACR Posts: 7,954 iTrader: (8)	it is recommend to have a heat exchanger with a fan on it. i cant see your pictures so i dont know what the intercooler looks like __________________ 2001 Celica GT-S 2ZZ-GTE 1997 Celica GT 5S-FTE 1997 Supra 6sp 2JZ-GTE 1990 Celica All-Trac 3S-GTE 1998 Dodge Ram Cummins Turbo Diesel Thats alot of BOOST!

10-15-2009, 03:47 AM	#6
ano Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cyprus Posts: 221 iTrader: (2)	^^^ I ve seen celicas with max 7" length intercooler. As I see yours is 10". Did you manage to fit it without removing the crash bar? A pic might help if you have one around __________________ ........I should never let you go........

10-15-2009, 08:47 AM	#9
Shizuma Automotive Masochist Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 3,854 iTrader: (27)	^ I think he was thinking you could circulate it through the stock radiator...which by the way you can't...ambient temps on the surface of the radiator are frequently above 100 degrees F. If you're "cooling" your intake charge with that, you're in trouble....unless you're in Alaska....in winter __________________ Measure twice, cut once, swear, measure again, cut, cuss, measure one more time, cut your fingers, bad, cut again, kick the air compressor, bandage foot, retire.

10-15-2009, 11:34 AM	#10
ano Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cyprus Posts: 221 iTrader: (2)	Thanks guys for your reply, I really appreciate it. @Shizuma You are right that I was thinking whether it was possible to use the stock radiator for the circulation or not. Since this is a very very bad idea, I won't do it. I live in Cyprus, a country that has 3 months with >40 degrees Celsius @GT-Swiss Now that you posted that link I feel better. This is the one that I found and gave me the push to decide liquid/air against air/air intercooler. I am planning to order my heat exchanger from them. Do you use their fan by any chance? I was wondering whether it is loud or silent About the pump: The pump that I ll use is a Bosch (this one) Can you please give me an advice of what I should buy in order to get a proper circulation? Btw, I am planning to put the PWR barrel next to the stock fans. Would this cause insufficiency of the cooling setup? __________________ ........I should never let you go........

10-16-2009, 03:35 PM	#11
ano Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cyprus Posts: 221 iTrader: (2)	Finally I managed to close the deal of the PWR barrel and a Bosch water pump. Here are some pics to get the idea: Can you guys help me out choosing the right heat exchanger and fan(s)? PWR Barrel: Dimensions: 4"x10" kit Overall Length (From End Tank to End Tank): 15.75" Horsepower : 300 CFM : 390 Bosch water pump: __________________ ........I should never let you go........

10-16-2009, 04:38 PM	#12
Shizuma Automotive Masochist Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 3,854 iTrader: (27)	I think that's the same pump I used...anyway as for the heat exchanger it depends on where you're going to put it, if you go for in the front of the car I'd go with something long and skinny a la Cobra Mustang. If you're going to go for the fender area I'd go with something with a thick core but more moderate dimensions. As for the fans you should be able to use whatever as long as you set them up correctly and aren't trying to push airflow agains the direction it would naturally go (ie, if you put your exchanger on the front of the car, don't put pusher fans facing outward). __________________ Measure twice, cut once, swear, measure again, cut, cuss, measure one more time, cut your fingers, bad, cut again, kick the air compressor, bandage foot, retire.

10-16-2009, 06:08 PM	#13
ano Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cyprus Posts: 221 iTrader: (2)	^^^ 1. Long and skinny --> link? 2. For the fans, I ve just got a reply from a seller that in case I go with the long and skinny one, I do not need fans, because the stock fans will do the job. How true is that? 3. As far as the fender position, is there anyone that could post a pic with similar setup? I can't picture how this setuo is possible 4. Here I have some thoughts for the PWR barrel position and I would like to get back some comments: __________________ ........I should never let you go........ Last edited by ano : 10-16-2009 at 06:52 PM.

10-19-2009, 05:39 AM	#14
ano Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cyprus Posts: 221 iTrader: (2)	up __________________ ........I should never let you go........

10-19-2009, 10:05 AM	#15
hombredelassrta Carbon Fiber Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tampa, Florida (Stetson Law) Posts: 13,255 iTrader: (53)	i'm slightly confused on the pics. is the core before the blower in pic 1? __________________ On The Boost "Who Needs Moral Fiber When You Have Carbon Fiber"

10-19-2009, 10:14 AM	#16
Shizuma Automotive Masochist Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 3,854 iTrader: (27)	The PWR barrel need to go between the s/c and the throttle plate. The radiator you posted in the URL seems fine, and I'll try and find pics of my oil cooler setup though I'm not sure if they're still up anymore. __________________ Measure twice, cut once, swear, measure again, cut, cuss, measure one more time, cut your fingers, bad, cut again, kick the air compressor, bandage foot, retire.

10-19-2009, 11:53 AM	#17
ano Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cyprus Posts: 221 iTrader: (2)	In both pics I have Induction ---> S/C ---> PWR Barrel Intercooler I didn't put heat exchanger, bov, maf, throttle body etc because I understood where I should put them and how. My question is whether, in setup 1, water will be overheated due to the barrel intercooler position. That's all __________________ ........I should never let you go........

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10-19-2009, 12:29 PM	#18
Shizuma Automotive Masochist Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 3,854 iTrader: (27)	Are you talking about heatsoak from the radiator? I'm not sure you can put it anywhere else besides where the battery is now. If you're really worried about it or notice heatsoak occurring make a heat shield or insulate the barrel....or both. __________________ Measure twice, cut once, swear, measure again, cut, cuss, measure one more time, cut your fingers, bad, cut again, kick the air compressor, bandage foot, retire.

10-19-2009, 01:49 PM	#19
ano Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cyprus Posts: 221 iTrader: (2)	yep, i am speaking about heat stroke. I ll see what I shall do after I get the parts on my hands. Thanks for the advice __________________ ........I should never let you go........

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