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Old 11-17-2009, 03:21 PM   #1
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Rotrex C30-84 on 1ZZ-FE --> Target 200-220 HP

Hey guys,

I have the chance to get a used Rotrex C30-84 for a very good price so I want to ask if would also work fine on the 1zz-fe engine. All other conversions are equiped with the C30-94 but I don't want that much HP.

My target is around 200-220 hp on the stock engine, including all necessary parts to get a stable set-up. Almost like the Komo-tec setup for the Lotus elise.

I also need the diameter of the crankshaft wheel to calculate the right diameter of the rotrex wheel.

Hope you can help me. I need some quick information because I don't know how long the rotrex is available.

Thanks in advance 4 help.

REO
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Old 11-17-2009, 09:09 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REO View Post
My target is around 200-220 hp on the stock engine, including all necessary parts to get a stable set-up. Almost like the Komo-tec setup for the Lotus elise.
I believe the crank pulley is 5" in diameter.

At that power level you should be okay, but note that the rods are very fragile on the 1ZZ and are at risk for failure if pushed much over that.

There's a stickied thread on "safe" levels of boost/power in the FI forum.

Also check out the Supercharger FAQ which has a lot of useful info regarding such a project.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:22 AM   #3
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Hi, thanks for your answer.

I have read a lot of stuff around the rotrex.

J_factors project
spyder forum MR2 project
Discussion at Celica-Community.de
Phoned with Komo-Tec in Germany (Rotrex specialist) they use the 30-74 for the Lotus Elise S
searched in several other forums.

I've just phoned with Evo-F in Austria (Rotrex specialist and importer for Rotrex in Austria) They said the C30-84 would be fine for the 1zz

I don't think it would be a problem to use the 30-84 but I want to be sure.

I have to say that I'm not an expert, I only read a lot about it and talked a few times with real experts about the conversion.

Can sombody confirm that the crank pulley has 5".

THX REO
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:45 AM   #4
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search celica-club.co.uk ... Se7en motorsports are currently offering a supercharger kit for the 1zz-fe exactly with the c30/94 ... i am looking to go that way too ..
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:27 AM   #5
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That's the information I need!

Thanks.

BR REO

pls close thx.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlitman View Post
I believe the crank pulley is 5" in diameter.

At that power level you should be okay, but note that the rods are very fragile on the 1ZZ and are at risk for failure if pushed much over that.

There's a stickied thread on "safe" levels of boost/power in the FI forum.

Also check out the Supercharger FAQ which has a lot of useful info regarding such a project.
So the rod on 1ZZ is weaker than the piston?
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:20 PM   #7
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So the rod on 1ZZ is weaker than the piston?
Yeah, that seems to be the consensus view.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:03 AM   #8
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I'd say that for the 1zz on stock internals (rods especially!) you're better off going for the C30/84 trim as this will put you right at the power output you're looking for (ie 220ish) the good thing with a Rotrex (or any centrifugal charger) is that boost builds progressively with revs and it's much less likely to snap a rod than the big hit of low down torque and power that a roots blower would.

I'm running a C30/94 on a 2zz and have the largest pulley wheel and I'm still at 290bhp on a sick engine. The C30/94 moves a lot of air. Realistcally I reckon it's capable of making enough boost to see 400bhp realistically. With that in mind it's fair to assume that 220bhp is at the very low end of it's efficiency scale and you're paying extra for something you aren't using nearly well enough. Se7en has the same set up (built head/brand new MWR block) and is seeing 14PSI and 310bhp and still on the large pulley.

I think you're on the right track with where you're going. Shame I can't give you a definite answer on the size of the crank pulley sorry.

Good luck with the project though. Be interesting to see how you get on.
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:03 AM   #9
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Crank pulley size = 134,6 mm

Just got the information from a friend.

What pulley size for the Rotrex will be favourable?

I can calculate the airflow kg/s for 210 hp

So is it right that I should use the pulley diameter which will reach the airflow for 210 HP@6700-6800rpm? rev limiter @7300rpm

Or earlier?

Maybe my way of thinking is false.

I don't want more than 0,4 bar boost pressure. How can I manage that? Is it possible to limit the BOV to max. 0,4 bar?

Oh man I feel like a dumb N E W B I E.

THX for help

Last edited by REO; 11-19-2009 at 03:08 AM..
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:07 PM   #10
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If you haven't already done so, you might want to concentrate your investigation over on the Spyderchat.com Forum, where R&D work on 1ZZ and 2ZZ engines started over 3 years ago, and with at least a half-dozen on-the-road examples currently (and several more in process).
As far as pulley size, Grumpy has an Excel spreadsheet set up to work the pulley-size/RPM relationships, as the rotational redline of the Rotrex head unit is critical.
As far as boost potential and vulnerability of the 1ZZ's internal components, we solved that issue using the C30-94 by having a machined "restrictor" fitted into the Rotrex's intake (compliments of CeeDapp), which effectively restricts the amount of air the Rotrex can suck in at higher RPM's. When I was running a 1ZZ with the C30-94 and an A/W intercooler setup, we were tuned to only get about 225 RWHP using this restrictor (so as not to stress the rods). IIRC, the OD of the Rotrex inlet is abot 75mm (and the ID obviously a little less), and the ID on the restrictor we used was 42mm. Now in going to a 2ZZ setup that restrictor will be removed.
As a side note on pulley size, I wanted to run the smallest pulley practical to achieve the best low-end/mid-range throttle response, and for that an 85mm pulley limited the engine RPM to around 7200-7300. In other words, more boost sooner (i.e., at lower RPM's) but limiting the engine RPM's at the top. I plan on going the same route on the 2ZZ, where between the Rotrex and the Piper cams, lift can be set to kick in much sooner. And even if I never go any higher than 7300 RPM's, I'll be enjoying that extra punch in the 2500-5000 RPM range all-day-long!
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Old 11-20-2009, 05:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REO View Post
Crank pulley size = 134,6 mm

Just got the information from a friend.

What pulley size for the Rotrex will be favourable?
I will do this using YOUR info that the crank pulley is 135 mm. I measured the 2zz and came up with 127mm. I don't know what a 1zz crank pulley is as I have never measured one and don't have one handy to measure. I will show you how to figure it using an online pulley calculator so you can actuall measure yours and be sure of the info.

Use this online calculator: http://www.csgnetwork.com/pulleybeltcalc.html

Zero out any numbers already on the calculator.
Put 135 in the Powered Driver Pulley Diameter. (Your Crank Pulley Measurement)
Put 100 in Driven Object Pulley Diameter (Or whatever pulley you wish to use on the Rotrex)
Put 7300 in Input (Driven) RPM (Or whatever redline you choose to use)
Push calculate button.
It will give you 9855. That is your input shaft speed for the Rotrex. You will have to check what the maximum speed that Rotrex advises for the C30-84 to see if it is below that number. The 30-94 the input shaft max is 10,500. I don't know the 84 limit.

A couple of things: Leave the rest of the questions in the calculator blank, they are not needed for your calculations.
With the C30-94 At the maximum input shaft speed on my Rotrex setup ( no restrictor and 2zz engine)I get 13-13.5 PSI.
That should get you the info you need to decide what pully you need to get what you want with the Rotrex. Hope that helps you out.

I honestly think that the 1zz has a 5 inch (127mm) crank pulley but that is something you will have to check on.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:29 PM   #12
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thanks for all the info dudes. I'm looking to rotrex my 2zz. Can someone please tell me where i can get the bracket from?
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:44 PM   #13
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you can't. You make it. or you buy one of the kits from Se7en Motorsports...
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Old 11-21-2009, 03:01 AM   #14
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there is a guy on 9thgen that did a Rotrex setup. You should hop on and see if you can find him on 9thgen.
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Old 11-21-2009, 09:13 PM   #15
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I honestly think that the 1zz has a 5 inch (127mm) crank pulley but that is something you will have to check on.
Yep -- I think it's technically closer to 5.25" counting the outer lip, but when you measure the actual diameter of where the belt makes contact, it's 5" exactly.
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Old 11-22-2009, 05:21 AM   #16
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Then he needs to simply change the 135 to 127 when he does his calculations. Thanks for the confirmation. I thought it was 127mm but have never measured one from a 1zz.
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Old 11-22-2009, 08:40 AM   #17
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if you guys arnt for sure ill go measure one have a spare motor in the garage now
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:10 AM   #18
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if you guys arnt for sure ill go measure one have a spare motor in the garage now
That would be fine!

THX
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:08 AM   #19
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Some calculation stuff from the Pulley and Belt calculator

Crank Pulley: 127mm
Rotrex Pulley: 80 mm
max. RPM: 7300

Output driven RPM: 11585.1 x 9,49 gear trasmission ratio = 109942,60 RPM impeller speed.

MAX C30-84: 120000 rpm.

What inner diameter for the C30-84 air restrictor would I need to get the 0,4 bar boost pressure.

How can I calculate that?

air restrictor + BOV (4 example SARD) will be a good choice?

Need some help from the pro's!

THX REO
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:27 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by REO View Post
Some calculation stuff from the Pulley and Belt calculator

Crank Pulley: 127mm
Rotrex Pulley: 80 mm
max. RPM: 7300

Output driven RPM: 11585.1 x 9,49 gear trasmission ratio = 109942,60 RPM impeller speed.

MAX C30-84: 120000 rpm.

What inner diameter for the C30-84 air restrictor would I need to get the 0,4 bar boost pressure.

How can I calculate that?

air restrictor + BOV (4 example SARD) will be a good choice?

Need some help from the pro's!

THX REO
Unless the Rotrex makers or retailers can help you, it'll be a hit-or-miss. But one factor will be the shape and aerodynamic efficiency of the restrictor. You might want to try 25mm for a starter.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:30 AM   #21
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Jiiiipppppiiiiii!

Just got some nice things!





Rotrex C30-84 + 80mm pulley
oilcooler 10 rows.
Apexi PFC, Cable + Datalogit

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Old 01-22-2010, 02:21 AM   #22
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Sweet Now get to fitting that on the car! lol

Good luck with the build, any updates? I've not been on here in a while.....
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:54 AM   #23
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I have tried to contact se7enmotorsports about his rotrex bracket. Hope I can get the whole bracket or the cad-file from there.

I also have the Cad file from J_Factors Rotrex project, but with the other one the install will look much better.

Update will follow in the next weeks.
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:38 AM   #24
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updates?
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Old 02-21-2010, 02:23 PM   #25
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No updates.

I am very busy at the moment. Also Still waiting for the info about the bracket.
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Old 02-21-2010, 03:01 PM   #26
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Reo gimme a mail i can e-mail you a DWG of the bracket 8-)

btw where did you get the kit and how much was it ? /if it's not a secret of course.../
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Old 02-21-2010, 04:15 PM   #27
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Thanks man,

Which bracket do you have? The one from the J Factor? I allready have the DWG file from his project.

I try to get the bracket from mabbs (se7enmotorsports) because he has modified it and it's better to fit than the other one.

The kit is costum made. I still try to get the rest of the parts togheter. It will take a little time because I need some more information about some of the parts I will buy.
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Old 02-21-2010, 04:20 PM   #28
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by @the kit@ i mean the supercharger and the oil things ... the sc kit and give me an e-mail ... i have the se7en's bracket i believe ... i downloaded it somewhere from there if i remember correctly ...
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Old 02-22-2010, 02:40 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt View Post
As far as boost potential and vulnerability of the 1ZZ's internal components, we solved that issue using the C30-94 by having a machined "restrictor" fitted into the Rotrex's intake (compliments of CeeDapp), which effectively restricts the amount of air the Rotrex can suck in at higher RPM's. When I was running a 1ZZ with the C30-94 and an A/W intercooler setup, we were tuned to only get about 225 RWHP using this restrictor (so as not to stress the rods). IIRC, the OD of the Rotrex inlet is abot 75mm (and the ID obviously a little less), and the ID on the restrictor we used was 42mm. Now in going to a 2ZZ setup that restrictor will be removed.
I had a talk with ccr-racing.dk , they're Rotrex specialists and are also working with restrictors. As far I was also considering a restrictor and asked them to produce one for me, they told me, a very good intercooler setup is mandatory with a restrictor because the restrictor will heat up the air much more. I got a A2W IC, so it would be fine for me, but I am considering bleeding boost is a better choice, so I'll probably research for a bypassvalve.
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Old 02-22-2010, 03:43 AM   #30
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I think a big A2A intercooler won't be a problem anyway.

I think the restrictor setup is much better because of the extra punch in the lower RPMs.

@GTswiss

Have you made some thoughts on the PCV valve? How you go to solve this issue?

Which CAD bracket do you use for the rotrex?

Best Regards from the Austian neighborhood
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:53 PM   #31
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Rotrex 1zz

Update Time:

Rotrex:


Brake:


Partlist:
- Rotrex-Lader C30-84 + cooler + 80mm pulley
- Forge Hybrid dump valve
- K&N Air filter
- Wiltec Intercooler 700x180x65mm
- Delta R EGT Sensor
- LC-1 AFR meter
- Alu Restrictors with several diameters 30-42mm
- Mocal Oil cooler 13 rows
- Longer V-belt
- Lotus 440cc injection nozzles
- Oil Catch tank + CCV
- Fidanza 2.1 Clutch

to be continued ...
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:20 PM   #32
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that is a huge braided line, never seen it used as an intercooler pipe before.
GL
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Old 03-04-2011, 04:04 AM   #33
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100% Leakproof up to 40 bar 1.4301 stainless steel

Inner Diameter 40mm
Outer Diameter 52mm

Extrem flexible.

It`s a test, but I think it will work properly.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:27 AM   #34
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Nice, so glad to see you making progress with it at last Reo. It's been a long time coming but I hope it goes smoothly for you. How the hell did you get the ST205 calipers and discs on there? Is it a custom bracket, different disc or a GT4 hub and upright? Very best of luck with the build.
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Old 03-04-2011, 01:15 PM   #35
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How the hell did you get the ST205 calipers and discs on there? Is it a custom bracket, different disc or a GT4 hub and upright?
MAGIC!

Little joke. The Caliper isn't mounted. Do you see my hand on the right side?

I will machine the brake discs down to 300mm and do the conversion like Thomas in the GT4 brake thread.
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Old 03-27-2011, 06:07 AM   #36
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A little update with some problems

I have to modify the J_factors bracket to get clearance to the A/C compressor.






I will extend it about 1-1,5 cm and move the rotrex about 10-15
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:17 PM   #37
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Update time:

Just finished the 1zz Rotrex bracket. I had to modify the A/C lines. Otherwise it won't work to keep the A/C on a LHD.

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Old 08-07-2011, 01:40 PM   #38
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Looks really good buddy!
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Old 08-07-2011, 02:09 PM   #39
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Hey mate,

I will send you some detailled photos.

What's the current status of your project?

regards

REO
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Old 08-07-2011, 02:40 PM   #40
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Hey mate,

I will send you some detailled photos.

What's the current status of your project?

regards

REO
I m looking forward to it

I finished it, but the rotrex outlet looks the wrong way didnt you get my email? Now I am looking for a way to quieten down the exhaust

The car feels like a beast on 1st and 2nd gear, and when the revs build up, it gets even better. There is enough torque to bring smile on my face. I had to retune it 3 times till the end result (the 1st was the very bad non-intercooled idea). With the intercooler I get great temperatures and the car runs smooth.

I am still waiting for a spot to dyno'd it. Due to summer vacations it is not easy to find a place. I was hoping to do it the previous monday but due to some "tech" reasons the appointment was cancelled. I ll see whether I ll get lucky this week
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:10 AM   #41
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Update time!

Almost ready to getting started.




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Old 09-19-2011, 02:25 PM   #42
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Small Update:

Only Oil change is left to do.





Fired up the engine and everything works.

But it needs a full retune. The engine doesn't idle very well but my tuning specialist will fix it i hope.
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:37 PM   #43
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:47 AM   #44
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Updates?



What is this the red circle?
And the blue hoses?
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:57 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mancuertex View Post
Updates?



What is this the red circle?
And the blue hoses?
crank vents and the blue hoses seems to fit in the oil catch can but I'm not too sure about this could also be some thing with vacuum lines
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:56 AM   #46
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Hey mate, just been reading this forum, found it on google when looking for 1zz-fe rotrex, i have a 03 corolla and have been thinking about modding her, since they are the same engine, just wanting to know whether you had to adjust anything with the stock throttle body and plenum chamber, also with how the rotrex is setup do you think it would be possible to run this with an extended power shaft setup, because my corolla is very limited on space where as celica's have a tonne of space next to the alternator (see pic link http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3769/super4q.jpg ) and also is there no where/way to extend your intake so its not directly behind the radiator sucking in hot air? also once its running properly, post a pic of the dyno sheet! want to see what this bad boy does!

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Old 03-25-2012, 01:26 PM   #47
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Sorry for the late reply.

The blue lines are vacuum lines and the other one is a check valve.


About your corolla. If you have no space in front of the alternator you have to put it instead of the A/C.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:56 PM   #48
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It's done!

220 hp @ 0 m sea level
204 hp @ 677 m sea level
173 whp @ 204 engine hp
232 nm torque @ 204 hp
Measured at 949 mbar and 26 C

Dynosheet will follow.

We also made a lot of changes. Air filter was relocated
and we also used the stock MAF and put it between air filter and rotrex.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:35 AM   #49
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Congrats!

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Old 07-26-2012, 03:38 AM   #50
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First pic!



Please also notice the WORKS Minicooper in the background. 309 HP

DYNOSHEETS:

http://www.celica-community.de/showp...&postcount=316

http://www.celica-community.de/showp...&postcount=334
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