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2013 Toyota 86 / Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ

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#1 · (Edited)
Toyota/Subaru Lightweight Sports Car
Best Car Scoop - A few weeks ago on September 3rd, Daily Car Newspaper (Japan) reported on an interview with Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe and his announcement of a joint Toyota-Subaru ‘Entry Level Sports Car’ which is underway and in it’s initial development phase, with a test mule spotted on a test course at Toyota’s headquarters in Toyota City.

The Test Mule

The test mule is actually still very early in it’s development and in its experimental stage being based on a shortened Subaru Legacy chassis and running a SOHC 2.0L flat-four engine. Best Car isn’t aware of any wheelbase measurements at this time, but going by reports the test mule chassis is around 200mm shorter than it’s Legacy donor platform. The Legacy underpinnings are for experimental purposes only as the new Toyota Lightweight Sports Car will actually be based on a shortened Impreza 15S platform which is better suited to a smaller 1.5 - 2.0L (flat-four) engine and has ‘rear wheel drive friendly’ double wishbone rear suspension. The test mule is in very early stages with the car running the aforementioned 2.0L SOHC engine and a 4WD driveline (without front drive shafts) so it isn’t undergoing any serious performance driving tests at this point in time. Apparently Toyota has the ability to have this new lightweight sports car ready and on the market by the end of next year… if only they were so inclined. Instead, a lot of effort is being put into getting the most performance while keeping the retail price below 2,000,000 yen.

Why a 1.5L engine?

Price seems to be the limiting factor regarding the type of engine, and therefore total weight, of the Toyota Lightweight Sports Car. Best Car has been told that if a larger 2.0L engine were to be used, the cost of the car would definitely rise above the 2,000,000 yen limit and would then not live up to its ‘Entry Level Sports Car’ namesake. Also the rear differential sourced from Subaru (from the Impreza 15S) has been cited as a weak link, it being limited to engines of 2.0L capacity or under for reliability concerns. The 1.5L engine - named ‘EL15′ - is a DOHC flat-four powerplant and is also noted for producing less emissions than it’s larger SOHC sibling which is another important criteria that Toyota is trying to address. The EL15 only puts out 110ps @ 6,400rpm and 14.7kg/m @ 3,200rpm so Toyota is doing its best to lighten the chassis and body as much as possible in order to give the car a reasonable amount of performance. Just how much weight can be shed? Toyota is aiming for 1100kg and no more… this is another reason why the 2.0L engine was rejected as the larger engine would dictate a heavier chassis which in turn would exceed the 1100kg (total vehicle) weight limit by 100kg or more, even with considerable weight reduction. Only so much weight can be shed, and only so much can be done to keep the Lightweight Sports Car within the 2,000,000 yen limit so Toyota has a big job on its hands to address these issues and will certainly be an ongoing problem throughout the development cycle.

Possible WRC Challenger?

Best Car hints at a possible WRC challenger in the making! Toyota could easily use Subaru STi engines and 4WD chassis together with the lightweight FR body for an assault on the World Rally Championship. This is just wishful thinking at this stage but Best Car sees no reason why this wouldn’t be a possibility.
Toyobaru or Subayota?
 
#243 ·
Marginally bummed about the loss in power, but I was planning to boost this thing anyway, so whatever.

And, I might add, given today's craptastic economy, an inexpensive, FR sports car that gets awesome gas mileage is appropriately targeted at an older audience anyway.

Dumb kids happy to just be behind the wheel of a car can buy xD's :chuckles:

Also, the new rendering is hot hot hot.
 
#244 ·
The new concept is hot.
The drop in power is not.
The idea of still keeping it as an FR layout is great.
Toyota screwing over the new kids in favor of their older enthusiasts is humorous but alright.

Hopefully this car is at least fun to drive.


I'm sure if it shares the same boxer motor, things can be changed.
 
#246 ·
didnt see it in this thread yet
The Toyota FT-HS has nothing to do with the Toyota-Subaru concept car, which is why it's not in this thread. Search for "FT-HS" and you'll find the thread.
 
#248 ·
x2

Ugh... just did a bit of research on how stout the EJ20 engines are and it seems that the answer is not very.

Looks like forged pistons and thicker rods at minimum are needed to boost these motors. So maybe no nifty TRD blower/turbo kit...

I'm new to Subaru motors, so if anyone reading this is more familiar with these engines, please correct me if I'm wrong... I have more research to do.
 
#249 ·
Hold on...

Wasn't their target weight previously set to ~2500lbs? and target ~200hp?

Assuming best case scenario of them matching the same power/weight ratio with the new 160hp figure; the target weight is then set at 2000lbs? :eek:

Let's admit it here, it's a bit unrealistic, but if they even hit 2300lbs with a flat 2.0, then the handling will be amazing! So they are cutting costs on r/d for new manifolds. I don't mind at all.

Less weight + same displacement = WIN! :D

I kinda like the new renderings as well.
 
#255 ·


I seriously hope the people at Topspeed just chopped a Genesis coupe for that pic, cuz if it looks like that then I'm done, something's wrong when Toyota/Subaru starts copying Hyundai. :laugh:
 
#260 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm pretty sure it will look something like this in Yota trim..
That front end looks too low for the new pedestrian-fearing law, doesn't it?
 
#261 ·
I'll guess we'll know in less than 3 months... ;)

I had an '85 AE86 and would love to get a modern re-incarnation of that car..was hella fun to drive..so it's either going to be this or the new "supra" if it's released anytime soon. Wife said no on the LF-A :marky:

She does want my '00 GTS though.. :love:
 
#276 · (Edited)
Found more info.

FT-86 Concept
FT-86 Concept (world premiere)
The FT-86 ("86" pronounced "hachi roku"), a compact rear-wheel-drive sports car, provides driving joy and excitement.

* Compact design gives driver greater control, while body's lightness and low center of gravity allow racecar-like handling
* Both power and environmental performance provided by 2-liter boxer engine and light body
* Flash Red body color contains hint of blue; interior expresses modern feel with minimal coverage of the highly refined structural components evoking enthusiasm for cruising
We finally have a name for Toyota's version!
 
#277 ·
The last pic makes it look god awful. The side has no real defining features and leaves a bland taste. It almost looks like a Rx8 mated with a 350z.
 
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