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Old 04-05-2014, 03:03 PM   #1
andreww
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Andreww's 2ZZ build

Hey everyone,

I'll be detailing my 2ZZ build here for everyone. So far, I've purchased the following:

-turbokits.com turbo kit
-MWR sleeved block
-Wiseco 10:0 pistons
-MWR valves
-MWR springs
-Wideband 02 gauge
-Oil pressure gauge
-Moroso Oil Pan
-255 lph fuel pump

I've got a few things left to buy, such as:
-Gasket set
-ARP head studs
-ARP main studs
-MWR main bearings
-MWR rod bearings
-TRD thermostat
-New water pump
-New timing chain + tensioner
-New belt tensioner
-Boost gauge
-Power FC + datalogit
-Quaife LSD
-Downpipe + 3" turboback exhaust
-550cc injectors
-Circuitworx oil pump

I'm probably forgetting a few things that I've thought of, but this seems as though it'll be a pretty bulletproof setup. I'm shooting for somewhere around 275 whp, but might start off a little lower for the breakin of the engine, like 250.

At some point I'll need to get some beefier wheels too, but I figure I'll stick with the current wastegate boost level, then later get better wheels/tires, get a boost controller, then turn the boost up after the engine is broken in.

I've installed the intake valves, and am going to do the exhaust valves later, but I figured I could document setting the valve lash when I get to it, as there's currently no guide (COUGH COUGH :P)

Here's some pics of some of the goodies:

Intake valves installed:


Sleeved block:


More sleeved block:


If anyone has any thoughts or questions, drop 'em below!
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Old 04-05-2014, 03:09 PM   #2
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Also, I had MWR gap the piston rings for me, which they gapped at 0.018" and 0.020". I checked the what Wiseco specifies for their ring gap (http://www.wiseco.com/FAQs.aspx) for forced induction engines are 0.022" for the top ring and 0.020" for the 2nd ring. For those in the know, does that sound about right?
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Old 04-05-2014, 03:40 PM   #3
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Circuit worx doesnt make oil pumps any more, youll have to buy a different more expensive brand or wait for a used one to come up for sale.

as for the ring gaps, they gapped those to the stock standards and you should adjust your gaps per the wiseco specs.
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Old 04-05-2014, 03:54 PM   #4
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I know circuitworx doesn't exist any more. It's the TODA oil gears now. I just went with the name literally everyone still uses.
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Old 04-05-2014, 05:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreww View Post
Also, I had MWR gap the piston rings for me, which they gapped at 0.018" and 0.020". I checked the what Wiseco specifies for their ring gap (http://www.wiseco.com/FAQs.aspx) for forced induction engines are 0.022" for the top ring and 0.020" for the 2nd ring. For those in the know, does that sound about right?
That's correct
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:46 AM   #6
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Andreww's 2ZZ build

Gonna watch this thread we have almost identical builds except I have a 1.93l stroker. Saving for a tk.com kit
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRojas View Post
Gonna watch this thread we have almost identical builds except I have a 1.93l stroker. Saving for a tk.com kit
Nice!

I forgot to mention that I'm getting an MWR chromoly flywheel, and also an upgraded clutch. Not sure which one to go with though, as there are about 1 million clutch threads on here that all have different conclusions.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:30 AM   #8
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Andreww's 2ZZ build

Yeah I got the MWR chromoly wheel and an ACT clutch I also have Ferrera valves so pretty much the same I'm looking forward to see what kind of numbers. Are you going to use the standard turbo that tk.com provides?


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Last edited by NRojas; 04-07-2014 at 08:53 AM..
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:44 AM   #9
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Old 04-07-2014, 09:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRojas View Post
Yeah I got the MWR chromoly wheel and an ACT clutch I also have Ferrera valves so pretty much the same I'm looking forward to see what kind of numbers. Are you going to use the standard turbo that tk.com provides?


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Yeah, I bought a used kit that can with the base turbo. It's something that I can upgrade later (and fpr kit) if I feel like making better numbers. I'm also pretty pumped about street tuning this guy when it's all stitched up. I've read over the tuning thread and it doesn't seem too complicated, I'll j just be sure to proceed cautiously with my edits and be sure to avoid knock!
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:38 PM   #11
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Anyone else care to weigh in on the wiseco 10:1 ring gaps?

0.022 top ring gap

0.020 bottom ring gap

sound right?
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Old 04-13-2014, 08:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreww View Post
Anyone else care to weigh in on the wiseco 10:1 ring gaps?

0.022 top ring gap

0.020 bottom ring gap

sound right?
thats pretty loose, i would go .020 top and .017 lower
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:55 AM   #13
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They also have a different set of specs on the little sheet that they sent out with the pistons. I'll post those up when I get home

Thanks Smaay!
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:35 AM   #14
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You want .017-.018 for top and .020-.022 for bottom. Need to have more gap for bottom ring to prevent blowby getting trapped in between, which could float the top ring and cause it to not seat properly. All modern engines follow this trend, even Toyota BGB and Wiseco recommend to run it this way. I ran around .017 and .020 for my 400+whp turbo. Compression is solid and minimal oil consumption.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thangcu35 View Post
You want .017-.018 for top and .020-.022 for bottom. Need to have more gap for bottom ring to prevent blowby getting trapped in between, which could float the top ring and cause it to not seat properly. All modern engines follow this trend, even Toyota BGB and Wiseco recommend to run it this way. I ran around .017 and .020 for my 400+whp turbo. Compression is solid and minimal oil consumption.
From Wiseco's FAQ page though, they recommend a smaller gap for the 2nd ring though, for forced induction (http://www.wiseco.com/FAQs.aspx).

I'll check the ring gap specs they sent with their sheet.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:16 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by andreww View Post
From Wiseco's FAQ page though, they recommend a smaller gap for the 2nd ring though, for forced induction (http://www.wiseco.com/FAQs.aspx).

I'll check the ring gap specs they sent with their sheet.
That's very strange. I don't know if that is a recent update or a typo, but every other ring manufacturer recommends a larger 2nd ring, even Toyota BGB. I know for sure the Wiseco ring gap sheet that came with my pistons recommended .005" x bore for top and .0055" x bore for 2nd.

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Old 04-14-2014, 10:29 AM   #17
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Yeah, that's what the sheet that came with my pistons said as well. It's the conflict of information that's killing me. Considering that my rings are already gapped to 0.018" and 0.020", I'm wondering if I even need to change the gap on them. Grrrrr.
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Old 04-15-2014, 11:19 AM   #18
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I just ordered the following goodies:

-OEM gasket kit
-OEM timing chain tensioner
-OEM timing chain
-OEM accessory belt tensioner (the one I have is fubar)
-New lift bolts
-MWR chromoly flywheel
-MWR main bearings
-MWR rod bearings
-ARP head studs
-ARP main studs
-ARP flywheel bolts
-TRD 170F thermostat
-TODA oil pump
-550 CC DeatschWerks injectors

Once all of this stuff gets in, I'm going to get the flywheel polished and the rotating assembly balanced, then it's time to start putting it all back together. I'm currently in the process of setting the valve lash, but I busted one of the cam cap bearing bolts (a better torque wrench is in my near future), and have to wait until thursday for some replacements from the stealership.

I'm still a little unsure about how my Wiseco rings are gapped. From what Thangcu said, the 0.018" and 0.020" (top & bottom, repectively) gaps that MWR set should be sufficient for turbo, but at the same time, Smaay suggested having 0.020" top and 0.017" bottom. Anyone else with wisecos care to chime in?
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:08 PM   #19
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There's no doubt the 2nd gap should be larger, I've built dozen of engines this way and they turned out fine. I just built my 2zz last year with .017 and .020 and it still has good compression, made 400+ whp on a T28 frame turbo, minimal blowby and oil consumption. I'm sure either way will turn out fine. My research tells me to go with a larger 2nd ring gap and the reason makes sense so I follow it.
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Old 04-16-2014, 08:40 AM   #20
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This discussion came up in thang's own thread. I'd be inclined to follow Wiseco's own recommendation. Their full ring gap PDF confirms the same info, 2nd ring wider than top.
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Old 04-16-2014, 09:07 PM   #21
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Andreww's 2ZZ build

Probably not necessary for your desired power level but are you going to be running a fuel return?


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Old 04-16-2014, 09:08 PM   #22
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Nah, just upgraded pump and injectors. I thought about it, but for the power levels I'm shooting for, it isn't necessary. Maybe if I do an AWD swap later and want to put down 400 hp
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:13 AM   #23
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So, I haven't updated this in quite a while. I still need a computer/datalogit, LSD, exhaust stuff and a clutch, but haven't had any cash flow for a while as I bought house. I was thinking today though that maybe I should replace the valve stem seals while I'm elbow deep in engine guts. I talked to the dealership today, and they quoted me $18 PER STEM SEAL. Meanwhile, MWR has a valve stem seal kit for $16 total (even though it's the Viton seals, which I've read are garbage).

So, the question, is should I even bother?
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:36 AM   #24
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Andreww's 2ZZ build

You can get the complete gasket kit that includes the valve stem seals. I think it would still be cheaper than buying all 16 seals at $18 each
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:58 AM   #25
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Like, the gasket kit from MWR? If so, awesome, I already have that. If not, fack.
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:42 PM   #26
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Andreww's 2ZZ build

I believe so I bought the same package for my build
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Old 07-30-2014, 01:45 PM   #27
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sweet, thanks! I'll be sure to dig around in my bag of gaskets to verify this.
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Old 07-30-2014, 03:07 PM   #28
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i ordered supertech seals, hope they are ok, they are cheap. I will use it for supertech valves and valvetrain. I have ordered full gasket kit too but everything will take a while to arrive. I am rebuilding too.
I think we just need new seals, that's all, we shouldn't bother much
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:03 AM   #29
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I would stick with factory.
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:18 PM   #30
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I checked, and sure enough, the OEM gasket kit that MWR sells has the stem seals.

Great success!
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:23 AM   #31
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Minor update:
I pulled all of the valves out of the head so that eventually I can get it hot tanked and replace the stem seals. I used the MWR toyotool, which, wow, is much much better and totally worth the money if you're going to be doing head work ever. Anyways, one of my intake valves I guess got bent a little bit when I was installing it without the toyotool, so I'll need to pick up a new one. Otherwise, all the other valves are good.

I also got a bung welded into my exhaust and had my AFR gauge installed. While it's not really necessary at the moment, because I'm going to do a custom exhaust setup for the swapped engine, I was too curious about it to not install it. I was wondering if anyone knows what the typical AFRs are on the stock ECU (GT or GTS), as mine typically hover around 14.7, pretty much all the time. I would have expected the mixture to get richer under high load/high RPM, but I guess the computer is probably always adjusting it to keep it close to stochiometric, right?
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:20 AM   #32
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Nobody on the AFR question?
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:00 AM   #33
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Yeah it should definitely get richer as you open the throttle more.

If your UEGO is showing a constant 14.7, then it's most likely faulty. I had mine stuck on 14.8 and in the end I sent it to AEM for them to repair it.
https://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=321292

If it moves but stays around 14.7...yeah that's quite lean if you're right by full throttle. I've got my car tuned perfectly to be stoich up to half throttle from 1000-5800rpm. From half to two thirds it's around low 14's. Full peaks at ~12.8-ish but yours will need to be richer of course.
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Old 09-09-2014, 06:42 AM   #34
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Yeah it should definitely get richer as you open the throttle more.

If your UEGO is showing a constant 14.7, then it's most likely faulty. I had mine stuck on 14.8 and in the end I sent it to AEM for them to repair it.
https://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=321292

If it moves but stays around 14.7...yeah that's quite lean if you're right by full throttle. I've got my car tuned perfectly to be stoich up to half throttle from 1000-5800rpm. From half to two thirds it's around low 14's. Full peaks at ~12.8-ish but yours will need to be richer of course.
Thanks for the reply, Rana. I'm not sure if I mentioned it before, but I haven't done the engine swap (or finished the build) yet. I just plunked in an AEM into my stock(ish) 1ZZ, and it's showing the above issue. I looked yesterday at some other people running AEM UEGOs on stock cars, and they noted that their AFR would jump around by ~1 point just as the normal deviation. What bugs me though is that it doesn't seem to richen much at WOT. Otherwise, it makes sense, like if the throttle plate is closed and I'm engine braking, it displays '---', which makes sense (no fuel). I'm sure it's fine, I was just surprised by the variability and not getting much richer at WOT.
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:00 PM   #35
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So, I haven't posted anything in this thread for a super long time because buying a house and getting married are both stupid expensive propositions. Considering where I'm at with this build, I'm considering stitching the engine back up with upgraded internals, do the break-in, etc, enjoy a 2ZZ with the C60 for a while, then add the turbo at a later date, once I've got a bit more financial liquidity.

Once question I have about this is that if I use the stock injectors, will I be able to use the stock ECU even though I have lower comp pistons? I'm expecting the answer is probably "no, that won't work," but if any of you wisened gurus can weigh in, I'd be grateful. I'm getting tired of having all of this awesome stuff in my garage sitting around and not being used, so if the low comp wisecos won't work with the stock ECU, I might ditch them and the kit, then use the money for normal comp wisecos, a clutch and a LSD, then just be done with it (for now).

Again, any and all input on this is highly appreciated!
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Old 08-28-2015, 08:17 AM   #36
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You will be fine. You can probably even run 89 or 87 octane.
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Old 08-28-2015, 10:29 AM   #37
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You will be fine. You can probably even run 89 or 87 octane.
I'm assuming I'll see a drop in horsepower due to the lower CR? I'm wondering if it's worth it for me to sell the kit, and just do an NA build. Sell my kit, injectors, fuel pump and 10:1 wisecos, get some normal CR wisecos or mahles, a good clutch, ported exhaust header, high flow cat and exhaust, weld it all up and call it a day.
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Old 08-29-2015, 08:13 AM   #38
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I'm assuming I'll see a drop in horsepower due to the lower CR? I'm wondering if it's worth it for me to sell the kit, and just do an NA build. Sell my kit, injectors, fuel pump and 10:1 wisecos, get some normal CR wisecos or mahles, a good clutch, ported exhaust header, high flow cat and exhaust, weld it all up and call it a day.
Yes - you will loose some power. (don't know how much exactly). Is your block already bored and honed for these pistons?
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Old 08-29-2015, 08:58 AM   #39
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I've been running 87 on my stroker with 10:1 on the stock ecu without any problems
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2zz stroker swapped, 2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder - BC Coilovers, front strut brace, custom tri-y header and downpipe, borla pro-xs exhaust, twm short shifter, momo shift knob, celica seats, cf hardtop, full trd stage 1 kit, 03+ tail lights
....almost done!

2009 Honda Accord Coupe - Stock, but faster than my Spyder.
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Old 08-31-2015, 06:49 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Boosted2.0 View Post
Yes - you will loose some power. (don't know how much exactly). Is your block already bored and honed for these pistons?
Yeah, I ordered the pistons at the same time as I had the block sleeved, so MWR bored/honed them for the wisecos. It's not a huge deal if I lose a little bit of power, plus if it'll run on the stock ECU, then I can get the break-in done and enjoy the 2ZZ sans turbo until I've got the funds to hook it up, in which case I'll be ahead of the curve with the low CR pistons all ready to go.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:27 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by andreww View Post
Yeah, I ordered the pistons at the same time as I had the block sleeved, so MWR bored/honed them for the wisecos. It's not a huge deal if I lose a little bit of power, plus if it'll run on the stock ECU, then I can get the break-in done and enjoy the 2ZZ sans turbo until I've got the funds to hook it up, in which case I'll be ahead of the curve with the low CR pistons all ready to go.
I would just assemble what you have and get it broken in and drive it a while then.
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We specialize in Motor builds, tuning, custom fabrication, high end / high HP engines, intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, suspension, custom wiring, custom turbos, tuning, etc. We can get any part you want, usually for less than you would expect!

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Old 08-23-2019, 03:21 PM   #42
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So after an extensive amount of time with no progress on this project and further lack of funds due to children, I'm thinking about selling my assortment of engine build parts, specifically:

-turbokits.com turbo kit
-MWR sleeved block
-Wiseco 10:0 pistons
-MWR valves
-MWR springs
-Moroso Oil Pan
-255 lph fuel pump
-OEM timing chain tensioner
-OEM timing chain
-New lift bolts
-MWR chromoly flywheel
-MWR main bearings
-MWR rod bearings
-ARP head studs
-ARP main studs
-ARP flywheel bolts
-TODA oil pump
-550 CC DeatschWerks injectors

All of the above parts are new and disassembled, with the exception of the used turbokits kit. I guess technically the block is used too, but was hot tanked and sleeved. I also have a disassembled head. Anyone interested in some parts? I'll be posting up a FS thread soon, but need to take about one million pictures and kind of want to gauge interest. I'll probably cross post over at spyderchat too.
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