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Old 08-23-2014, 09:55 AM   #1
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Overrunning alternator pulley?

Does anyone know the shaft and thread dimensions (length and diameter) for a GTS alternator? Letting the alternator freewheel when it's not driven is very beneficial to belt and tensioner life, it's also a small boost to engine efficiency, and best yet reduces spinning mass on engine deceleration. The alternator rotor and shaft is typically about 90% of the weight of the alternator, so for ours it would be about 8-10 lbs of mass spinning at roughly 3x crank speed due to pulley ratio! That's a lot of energy to slow down each time you want to change gear. I'm a little light on math to figure the moment of inertia and how many lb/ft of stored energy that is,but if you've ever spun an alternator by hand and then stopped it by hand you can feel it's got some serious heft just at 100rpm, now imagine at 20,000 RPM!

I'm trying to figure out if there's a cross from a commonly available pulley to fit our alternator, I'm hoping maybe a later model Camry/Corolla uses the same alternator innards and shaft size so it's just a direct swap over. The pulleys for a 2010 Corolla are about $50. I have no idea if it would make any appreciable difference however EVERY new car is using them so there must be some benefit to offset the cost and enough for the bean counters across the industry.

From the rebuild procedure outlined in Alldata the shaft of a 2010 Corolla alternator looks like it's externally threaded and tapered like a standard alternator shaft. If anyone knows the dimensions of ours I can get the dimensions of the 2010 Corolla or other models from one of my suppliers at work as they'll be likely to have that stock on hand, but unlikely to have on hand the stock for a 10yr old sporty coupe/rare corolla model.
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Old 08-23-2014, 01:12 PM   #2
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Hey Bitter,

That is a very interesting concept, i hope someone can answer this for you, sounds like a great mod though if it can be done! Keep me posted man
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Old 08-23-2014, 02:06 PM   #3
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If I get anywhere with it I'll keep this thread updated.
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:43 AM   #4
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RockAuto has a pulley on closeout listed that I'm going to purchase and attempt to install.
DAYCO 892003
It's both over running and decoupling so it'll dampen the alternator from the engine on both acceleration and deceleration which in theory should reduce wear on the belt (not that I drive it enough to worry) and reduce the spinning mass of the engine under those conditions. The only worry here is that the other pulleys are listed for JUST the GT model but I can't imagine the alternator pulley shaft is different between the GT and GTS alternator but there could be some clearance issue or it's just a weird catalog listing problem which is more likely and annoyingly common in the world of car parts.
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Old 01-31-2019, 04:29 PM   #5
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It's like sex with your cute but chubby cousin that one time when you had both had too much wine at Christmas dinner. You know it's wrong, you're not stopping, and you really regret it the next morning. That is poutine, Canada does this 24x7x365. Canada are a bunch of sick bi-lingual metric cousin f*ckers.
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:24 PM   #6
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RockAuto has a pulley on closeout listed that I'm going to purchase and attempt to install.
DAYCO 892003
It's both over running and decoupling so it'll dampen the alternator from the engine on both acceleration and deceleration which in theory should reduce wear on the belt (not that I drive it enough to worry) and reduce the spinning mass of the engine under those conditions. The only worry here is that the other pulleys are listed for JUST the GT model but I can't imagine the alternator pulley shaft is different between the GT and GTS alternator but there could be some clearance issue or it's just a weird catalog listing problem which is more likely and annoyingly common in the world of car parts.
Very interested in what you learn here.
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:09 PM   #7
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The pulley came today, it looks like there's plenty of room to fit it and it may be the same or just a blonde hair larger diameter than the stock pulley. I'm hoping to get the alt pulled off the car and pulley swapped in the next couple months, I'll keep this updated.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:01 PM   #8
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*red

And good luck!
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It's like sex with your cute but chubby cousin that one time when you had both had too much wine at Christmas dinner. You know it's wrong, you're not stopping, and you really regret it the next morning. That is poutine, Canada does this 24x7x365. Canada are a bunch of sick bi-lingual metric cousin f*ckers.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:39 PM   #9
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no, don't even waste your time. if you want a honest sticker, at least get one that says "objects in mirror aren't really racing, so quit trying"...
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Old 02-17-2019, 02:12 PM   #10
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Lol
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It's like sex with your cute but chubby cousin that one time when you had both had too much wine at Christmas dinner. You know it's wrong, you're not stopping, and you really regret it the next morning. That is poutine, Canada does this 24x7x365. Canada are a bunch of sick bi-lingual metric cousin f*ckers.
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Old 04-04-2019, 06:00 PM   #11
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After much creaking and groaning (mostly from myself) I got the alternator off with my crappy tools here at home to take it to work and swap on the over running pulley. I may not reinstall it to drive until after I swap the DD IM since having the alt out frees up some space to work for sure.
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:16 PM   #12
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It's on the alternator, alternator going on this weekend. Seems to fit on the alternator just fine,put some blue loctite on the threads just to be sure cause I had no way to hold the shaft still. Going to rely on the smack from the impact gun being enough
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:36 PM   #13
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Progress!
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It's like sex with your cute but chubby cousin that one time when you had both had too much wine at Christmas dinner. You know it's wrong, you're not stopping, and you really regret it the next morning. That is poutine, Canada does this 24x7x365. Canada are a bunch of sick bi-lingual metric cousin f*ckers.
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Old 04-06-2019, 01:46 PM   #14
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Hey it's on the car now, installation went easier with more correct tools from work. I have a sinus headache and cold that's kicking my ass some I'm going to eat, take a rest, then start it up and maybe drive it some. First drive of the year too. The DDIM is not going on this weekend, I don't have enough focus and concentration to tackle a bigger task like that and I'm missing some tools I meant to take home to tackle that job anyway.
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Old 04-06-2019, 04:43 PM   #15
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It *feels* much smoother when shifting at high RPM, either up or down shift, much less "kick" when up shifting at high RPM. All the time I've had the car when up shifting from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd at fuel cut there would be a fairly noticeable "kick" from the drive train because the engine is being stuffed back down several thousand RPM by the trans, most of that kick is gone now and honestly I like how that feels because it feels faster because it feels smoother. Whether it actually is any faster who knows, I really doubt it but this was only one drive to run the rust off the brakes with limited high RPM time.

I guess the conclusion is that it works, probably a better effect with a manual trans, and I'll update when/if it breaks or something changes or I have news.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:23 PM   #16
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So it was a direct swap? No machining or anything?
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:05 AM   #17
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Yes, it is a direct swap. That Dayco part number fits perfectly fine and has the same belt dimensions as the original pulley. You'll need a 17mm hex adapter or hex socket and an impact to install it, use loctite on the threads.
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Old 04-09-2019, 03:40 PM   #18
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Pro tip: it's an automatic. It's not faster.
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It's like sex with your cute but chubby cousin that one time when you had both had too much wine at Christmas dinner. You know it's wrong, you're not stopping, and you really regret it the next morning. That is poutine, Canada does this 24x7x365. Canada are a bunch of sick bi-lingual metric cousin f*ckers.
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Old 04-09-2019, 07:27 PM   #19
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It probably isn't, but there is certainly less drive line shock felt through the solid front mount insert now than there was before. Significantly less too, I drove it again tonight and it wasn't my imagination at all.
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:18 PM   #20
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I ordered one, will be trying this out.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:56 AM   #21
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Cool! Stick shift?
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:42 AM   #22
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Cool! Stick shift?
Yes, but not a Celica. It's a 2ZZ swapped MR2, with C56 transmission currently. Reaching the alternator is a bit more difficult, but I think this mod will be very complimentary to my future supercharger build.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:50 PM   #23
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Yes, but not a Celica. It's a 2ZZ swapped MR2, with C56 transmission currently. Reaching the alternator is a bit more difficult, but I think this mod will be very complimentary to my future supercharger build.
It can't hurt, it'll be interesting to know your impressions as well.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:29 PM   #24
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Yes, but not a Celica. It's a 2ZZ swapped MR2, with C56 transmission currently. Reaching the alternator is a bit more difficult, but I think this mod will be very complimentary to my future supercharger build.
Great project! Keep us posted and good luck!
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It's like sex with your cute but chubby cousin that one time when you had both had too much wine at Christmas dinner. You know it's wrong, you're not stopping, and you really regret it the next morning. That is poutine, Canada does this 24x7x365. Canada are a bunch of sick bi-lingual metric cousin f*ckers.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:22 PM   #25
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I should be finally installing this within the next week or so. Will let y'all know what the butt dyno says!
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:01 AM   #26
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I'll be interested to hear how it feels on a manual car.
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:45 PM   #27
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Ok so maybe I lied about the timetable.... But I did install it today! I've only gone for a single 10 minute test drive but initial impressions are very satisfying!
Hard off and on throttle is smoother, deceleration out of gear is a bit slower. High RPM shifting is WAY smoother. The best way to describe it is... Smoother. I'm positive this is much more effective for decreasing engine load than a lightweight alternator pulley, or even underdriving. The rotational mass of the alternator itself being decoupled from the pulley system is a respectable gain. There may even be a touch more power, I can't judge that yet... ECU needs to relearn it's fueling still.
My usb charger is also my voltmeter.... So far voltage is consistently 14.2+. No noticable difference in voltage output.

Update: nearly every upshift feels perfect. It's very difficult to make a jarring upshift now.

Last edited by marsrock7; 08-17-2019 at 11:14 PM..
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:35 AM   #28
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Exactly what I felt as well, so weird that such a small change makes such a noticable difference. I can't even imagine driving the car without the pulley, I did Tail of the Dragon 4 times yesterday with a lot of shifting between 1st and 2nd gears and A LOT of high RPM time and harsh on/off throttle and engine braking in 1st gear and the engine felt smooth as butter on/off power even at 8,000 RPM. It feels like the car is better balanced when you're hard bashing on and off throttle than it ever was before.

Funny, I was thinking about this thread and wondering what ever happened just before I left while I was inspecting the car prior to my long drive. I'm really glad to hear it's not just me imagining things and being weird!
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Old 08-18-2019, 02:20 PM   #29
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I am envious of your proximity to the dragon... I'll make it up there someday...
It's not a placebo, there is definitely a positive effect present. Thanks a ton for going through the efforts to find the right pulley to make this work!
On that note, would you mind if I crosspost this to other forums? Credit will be given where credit is due, of course.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:54 PM   #30
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Exactly what I felt as well, so weird that such a small change makes such a noticable difference. I can't even imagine driving the car without the pulley, I did Tail of the Dragon 4 times yesterday with a lot of shifting between 1st and 2nd gears and A LOT of high RPM time and harsh on/off throttle and engine braking in 1st gear and the engine felt smooth as butter on/off power even at 8,000 RPM. It feels like the car is better balanced when you're hard bashing on and off throttle than it ever was before.

Funny, I was thinking about this thread and wondering what ever happened just before I left while I was inspecting the car prior to my long drive. I'm really glad to hear it's not just me imagining things and being weird!
This, with an auto trans...
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It's like sex with your cute but chubby cousin that one time when you had both had too much wine at Christmas dinner. You know it's wrong, you're not stopping, and you really regret it the next morning. That is poutine, Canada does this 24x7x365. Canada are a bunch of sick bi-lingual metric cousin f*ckers.
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:35 PM   #31
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I am envious of your proximity to the dragon... I'll make it up there someday...
It's not a placebo, there is definitely a positive effect present. Thanks a ton for going through the efforts to find the right pulley to make this work!
On that note, would you mind if I crosspost this to other forums? Credit will be given where credit is due, of course.
Go for it, Halo is already asking me to explain it so he can explain it on the Spyder forums LOL!
http://knowhow.napaonline.com/altern...ley-evolution/
Kind of explains it, one way clutch AND a damper to absorb shock. It lets the alt free wheel on decel and it softens the blow to the belt tensioner at the same time. Not having however many pounds of force slamming the tensioner on slowing is good but the spring dampens both ways to reduce shock on the belt and by extension the engine somewhat also. Whatever, it feels really nice.
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no, don't even waste your time. if you want a honest sticker, at least get one that says "objects in mirror aren't really racing, so quit trying"...

Last edited by Bitter; 08-19-2019 at 08:43 PM..
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:37 PM   #32
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This, with an auto trans...
Yeah, what about it?
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no, don't even waste your time. if you want a honest sticker, at least get one that says "objects in mirror aren't really racing, so quit trying"...
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:38 PM   #33
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Go for it, Halo is already asking me to explain it so he can explain it on the Spyder forums LOL!
Hah... He was first to respond to the post on the new Spyder forum.
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:52 AM   #34
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It certainly seems worth noting for those reading this post.
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It's like sex with your cute but chubby cousin that one time when you had both had too much wine at Christmas dinner. You know it's wrong, you're not stopping, and you really regret it the next morning. That is poutine, Canada does this 24x7x365. Canada are a bunch of sick bi-lingual metric cousin f*ckers.
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