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Old 09-15-2005, 02:55 PM   #1
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3S-GTE swap FAQ

A couple threads relating to this:

https://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=341886

https://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=347057

http://www.sdsefi.com/features/mar03celica.htm

http://www.fensport.co.uk/FensportCa...ica_GT4_X.aspx

https://www.newcelica.org/forums/show...=Fensport+swap





The short answer is don't bother. A 2ZZ can make more power for far less hassle. The 3S-GTE weighs more and requires mods every bit as expensive as the 2ZZ to make less power since the head doesn't flow as well.

The long answer is expect to spend about $10K+ on this swap.
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Old 09-15-2005, 05:40 PM   #2
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Great info, thanks Boosted!
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Old 09-15-2005, 05:40 PM   #3
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Nice info. Probably see a lot less "want to swap to 3s-gte, is it very hard?" threads.
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Old 09-15-2005, 07:04 PM   #4
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This thread should be called: 3S-GTE swap: why you shouldn't do it
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Old 09-15-2005, 09:23 PM   #5
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It's about time someone had the idea to make a thread like this. Thanks boosted. Sticky this in the forced induction section too.
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Old 09-17-2005, 07:25 AM   #6
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bump for sticky
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Old 09-17-2005, 01:40 PM   #7
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Boosted just listed what i have been saying...keep in mind that the 3S-GTE weighs over 2X what the 2ZZ weighs. and you will have to sink in over 4000 in the motor to make big power..Remember i paid over 6500 for my fully built 3S-GTE for my All-Trac, and thats just the motor, not including the custom turbo system and fuel system...

Just another reason not to do it...all this bolted in to the All-Trac, not into the 7th Gen
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Old 09-20-2005, 11:47 AM   #8
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Ehh, I am not seeing why this should be stickied. If it had instructions on how to do the swap then yes, but its more of a shopping list at best.
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Old 09-20-2005, 11:54 AM   #9
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So your telling me that you would like to reply to about 3 threads a day asking the same thing?..... We all know, People dont always use the search button
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Old 09-20-2005, 01:03 PM   #10
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Finally... hopefully this should put an end to those useless "can I swap 3SGTE to my 7th-gen celica?" threads...
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Old 09-20-2005, 01:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT211
So your telling me that you would like to reply to about 3 threads a day asking the same thing?..... We all know, People dont always use the search button
Stop replying. Just like I stopped replying to the 50 mindless threads per week about which intake/exhaust is best. Frankly, I think this thread should be moved out of FI and back to performance...
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Old 09-20-2005, 01:27 PM   #12
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Great info boost... Very few people are interested in 3S-GTE swaps and like you said, only one person did it. It's not any cheaper than a fully built 2ZZ + C2 tranny... in addition to the extra front weight. So I don't see any reason for the sticky since this post applies to a very few of us.
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Old 09-21-2005, 06:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyoneway
Great info boost... Very few people are interested in 3S-GTE swaps and like you said, only one person did it. It's not any cheaper than a fully built 2ZZ + C2 tranny... in addition to the extra front weight. So I don't see any reason for the sticky since this post applies to a very few of us.
No offense bro, but I think it does deserve a sticky, not because anyone is doing it... BUT because 1 out of 3 n00bs will post about a 3S-GTE swap ...
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Old 09-21-2005, 06:53 AM   #14
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Urm, isn't the 3S-GTE from the MR2/GT-4(T20) pushing at least 235bhp, the most common version 240bhp and the newest above 240bhp to the crank?!
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Old 09-21-2005, 09:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03rollas
No offense bro, but I think it does deserve a sticky, not because anyone is doing it... BUT because 1 out of 3 n00bs will post about a 3S-GTE swap ...
Those threads were closed.

Maybe I'll put together a noob FAQ. There are many threads that should be stickied and it will filled up the first 2 pages. Sorry I have to be more selective and keep stickies to a minium.
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Old 09-21-2005, 10:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asha'man
Urm, isn't the 3S-GTE from the MR2/GT-4(T20) pushing at least 235bhp, the most common version 240bhp and the newest above 240bhp to the crank?!
Not in the US...
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asha'man
Urm, isn't the 3S-GTE from the MR2/GT-4(T20) pushing at least 235bhp, the most common version 240bhp and the newest above 240bhp to the crank?!
Sure if you get a Gen3 3SGTE which was from 96-99 and never offered in the US.
You would need to import a rear clip MR2 from Japan.

The 5SFE to 3SGTE swap question comes up 5X a day on the MR2 board and the response is the same every time...yet noobs will keep starting new threads about it.

Stickies don't do crap. Noobs don't read stickies, that is one of the reasons they are so annoying.

Good info Boosted 2.0 a great example of a project that can be done, but is not a cost effective way to have a high HP Celica.

Rather than a sticky just create a Noob FAQ and have a link to the unstickied thread. (Close the thread first so that noobs don't revive it 2 years later.)
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:29 PM   #18
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Argh sure. I was only talking about the gen3 of the 3S-GTE. And there was one guy here in nc.org with the veilside kit, who did this swap.

Sadly I don't remember it's nickname. The swap was quite impressive. But one think to mind is that the weight distribution will change significantly with the heavier engine and this will also affect the easy handling of the fwd celica.
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Old 10-05-2005, 08:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asha'man
And there was one guy here in nc.org with the veilside kit, who did this swap.

Sadly I don't remember it's nickname.
JMS003:

http://www.sdsefi.com/features/mar03celica.htm









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Old 11-23-2005, 10:30 PM   #20
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This really ought to be a sticky over in Performance mods section

Bump for morons too lazy to ****ing search
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Old 11-24-2005, 11:00 AM   #21
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Small part to modify like suspension for celica to handle that extra weight in the engine compartment?
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:24 PM   #22
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sticky done.
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:02 PM   #23
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AWD 3S-GTE Conversion:

https://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212745
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Old 05-17-2006, 12:39 AM   #24
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why dont people just get a turbo'ed car ??
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Old 05-07-2010, 01:06 PM   #25
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i'm definately going to do this swap but i have some questions...

cant i just use a fwd tranny with the 3s ...
Do you think the original axels would line up ??
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Old 05-07-2010, 01:23 PM   #26
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Use an E153 from the MR2...

The original axles will not work, ever.
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Old 05-21-2010, 06:10 PM   #27
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err i E what ? i am not good with models and parts names.

I am jsut trying to figure out if i have to convert the car to rwd cuz i dont want to to much money....
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Old 05-21-2010, 06:46 PM   #28
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e153, the transmssion that bolts to the 3sgte and 5sfe Found in the MR2 and Camrys.
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
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err i E what ? i am not good with models and parts names.

I am jsut trying to figure out if i have to convert the car to rwd cuz i dont want to to much money....
your goin to spend alot of money.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:43 PM   #30
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Ok if i may add a few notes here. Hi Boosted! Please make that 4 documented swaps for a FACT.

I have 2 friends with that swap as we speak. a third one will be done in a short while.

Two of the cars are the JDM TOYOTA RUNX Z Aerotourer.
The one awaiting the transplant is a Toyota Matrix (US model)

All three of these cars have owners who have lost confidence in the strength of the 2zz under hard use. Of the 2 complete transplants the following engines were used:

a. The BEAMS Naturally aspirated (red cam Cover) 3S-GE
b. The 3S-GTE from the JDM Toyota Caldina (4wd sports station wagon)

Both cars have manual transmissions and are in perfect running order. the way the wiring is done is really simple (for the person who did them). the stock 2zz loom is not removed from the car, it is spliced into the ends of the 3S loom and everything looks bone stock upon completion. the stock mounting points are used so there is no need to cut the chassis of the car. adapter brackets are fabricated (before u start to guess abt strength, we have cnc machining here at really reasonable rates.)

the changes that have to be made are the radiator, thisis due to the plumbing difference on the engines and also the turbo needs the custom built double core radiator (built locally for around 250 usd and very very reliable)

Here a lot of used parts dealers buy container loads of engines from japan and half cuts and front cuts and nose cuts so its easy to get parts. a 3s-gte with gearbox will cost approx 2000usd.

NOTE: THe Caldina turbo 3S-GTE is supplied stock from factory with 260 bhp. with a greddy system and a boost controller and a few other bits and peieces these engines can make over 300hp pretty easily. The also make this 260 hp with a top mount intercooler. adding a front mount will see instant gains in power output. i will post pictures of the setup for your perusal. i will be working with the owner of the matrix for the swap so i will keep this thread posted with more details.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:57 PM   #31
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here are the pics to prove the turbocharged 3S-GTE in the RUNX (pronounced RUN - X)
this car has the same chassis as a xrs matrix or corolla.





now tell me how stock does that look? dont it look like that car came from the factory with that engine? A LOT of swaps happen here in jamaica.

For the real real real toyota enthusiast, if you know of the 4e-fe engine, (from the JDM toyota starlet turbo, 1300cc of displacement, made 453 whp on 25psi and i dont mean this is a one off deal...it ran and ran reallly well until the owner upgraded)
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:05 PM   #32
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Boosted, if we spend 15,000 that car will make MUCH more power than that guranteed. my friend with a 4age BLACKTOP TURBO in his corolla pulls over 430whp and does an easy 12.1 on the quarter.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:30 PM   #33
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^^ wow that engine bay looks really clean and stock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG4DVI View Post
Boosted, if we spend 15,000 that car will make MUCH more power than that guranteed. my friend with a 4age BLACKTOP TURBO in his corolla pulls over 430whp and does an easy 12.1 on the quarter.
I agree, the thing is that it seems that mechanics labor in the US is really really expensive from what I have seen in this forum.

Btw I have a 4age blacktop on an ae86 and I was thinking of boosting it with 4agze internals but I'm not sure how much power they would hold. Do you know what pistons and rods is using your friend?
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Old 06-01-2010, 02:29 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG4DVI View Post
Boosted, if we spend 15,000 that car will make MUCH more power than that guranteed. my friend with a 4age BLACKTOP TURBO in his corolla pulls over 430whp and does an easy 12.1 on the quarter.
Everything is relative. Those prices are based on other people doing ALL labor, and include the price of engine, trans, etc.

I could swap a 3S into my car for probably 3 grand. But thats because I can do all the work and fabrication myself. But thats not going to be a 450 HP 3S, and inexpensive 3S builds are short lived. (I have a second Gen MR2 Turbo at my house right now with a motor that a guy cratered by going cheap on the tune)

But there is no way in hell I would do that, as the 2ZZ will make more power, and do so quite reliably now that we have the Mahle drop in pistons to work with and Sleeving is no longer required.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:21 AM   #35
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I agree. While a 3S is a awesome engine. A 2ZZ is just newer and more efficient. The money you would spend swapping the motor you could spend building your 2ZZ and end up with a faster car. The only problem was the tranny. Up until now! E153 swap ftw!
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:08 AM   #36
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I've always thought the whole point of a 3S-GTE swap is to get the 4WD running gear and tranny...

And that transmission is not indestructable - IIRC Adrian's monster had some problems during round 1 of the Toyota Sprint this year. But he does have rather a lot of power
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:48 AM   #37
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Quote:
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I've always thought the whole point of a 3S-GTE swap is to get the 4WD running gear and tranny...

And that transmission is not indestructable - IIRC Adrian's monster had some problems during round 1 of the Toyota Sprint this year. But he does have rather a lot of power
The AWD version is not indestructible, although the ST205 trans was pretty damn stout. The 3rd Gen MR2 turbo trans is damn near indestructible though - you just can't get enough traction on only 2 wheels to hurt it.
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:10 PM   #38
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^^ wow that engine bay looks really clean and stock.



I agree, the thing is that it seems that mechanics labor in the US is really really expensive from what I have seen in this forum.

Btw I have a 4age blacktop on an ae86 and I was thinking of boosting it with 4agze internals but I'm not sure how much power they would hold. Do you know what pistons and rods is using your friend?

Hi, he is using the 4A-GZE pistons. I think the management is Haltech if memory serves correctly. you are on the right path..
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Old 07-31-2010, 05:44 PM   #39
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OK guys i have a video of the start up of the 3sgte in the corolla fielder....i tried to do close-ups of the mount, radiator and the clearances after installation. Once get my blackberry cable i will post the video and put a link here. i also showed how the ecu is setup. the car now uses 2 ecu's one controls the engine operation and the other controls climate control, dashboard etc....

the engine is from the 2003 toyota caldina gt turbo
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:15 PM   #40
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Here is a video of the swap. If you have questions i can try to answer them as best as possible.

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Old 11-10-2011, 07:45 AM   #41
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Just out of curiosity, what happened to the sticky info here?
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:51 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Dimaoala View Post
Just out of curiosity, what happened to the sticky info here?
Apparently nobody checked to see where it went in a while.. I just came across this and found the link today and it went to a T-shirt??? DAfuq??


On a side note, with everyone talking about how horrible the 3SGTE is, maybe I should ask if I can swap a 2zz into my Alltrac.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:55 PM   #43
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maybe I should ask if I can swap a 2zz into my Alltrac.
thats a terrible idea. for one it wont work with the exhaust on the back side. stick with what belongs in there a 3S-GTE

there is nothing wrong with a 3S-GTE, its just not feasible in a 7th gen. you can build a 2ZZ to make more power for half the cost to put it in.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:29 AM   #44
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thats a terrible idea. for one it wont work with the exhaust on the back side. stick with what belongs in there a 3S-GTE

there is nothing wrong with a 3S-GTE, its just not feasible in a 7th gen. you can build a 2ZZ to make more power for half the cost to put it in.
That was a joke my friend. LOL
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:49 AM   #45
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Our 7th gen GTS with 3SGTE is for sale

https://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=345909

The car turned out great but we've decided the swap is a little too complex and expensive to offer for customers on a large scale. Way too many little details and complications to sort during the install. Once it's done though... nice car.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:34 AM   #46
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Cool deal.

For the Sake of the FAQ Matt - did you guys wind up using your regular off the shelf E153 swap kit (mounts and axles), or did you have to use different mounts?
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:08 PM   #47
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Monkeywrench, since the 3S-GTE fits the Celica engine bay, will the 2AZ-GE fit? I was reading the 2AZ-GE swap area, but some members felt that it would not fit, so I am asking here because you have completed the 3S-GTE swap. It is also my understanding that the 2AZ-GE bolts to the E153. My focus is only can the 2AZ-GE fit using your kit as the AZ series replaced the 3S? I am sure that my reason for wanting to slot in a 2AZ-GE will not please the community. None the less, thank you for your time.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:50 AM   #48
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A 2AZ over a 3S or a 2ZZ?
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:23 AM   #49
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We've had zero interest in the 2AZ so I'm afraid I don't know. I do know it's quite a long engine so there are likely clearance problems on the ends. The 2AZ would not be my first (or even fifth) choice for a Celica swap.

BTW- price dropped to $9950. Somebody needs to give our 3SGTE car a good home.
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2001 Celica LSR car 823whp 2ZZ @ 41psi / [email protected] at 28psi / 202mph @ 25psi in the standing mile
2000 Celica GT-S 412whp with MWR turbo @ 16psi and stock engine / 550whp with MWR turbo @ 26psi on 93 octane - [email protected] on 93 octane
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:52 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by powerofdreamx View Post
Monkeywrench, since the 3S-GTE fits the Celica engine bay, will the 2AZ-GE fit? I was reading the 2AZ-GE swap area, but some members felt that it would not fit, so I am asking here because you have completed the 3S-GTE swap. It is also my understanding that the 2AZ-GE bolts to the E153. My focus is only can the 2AZ-GE fit using your kit as the AZ series replaced the 3S? I am sure that my reason for wanting to slot in a 2AZ-GE will not please the community. None the less, thank you for your time.
2AZ is a horrible swap. 2AR I could understand - same HP but way more displacement and torque. But 2AZ would be a waste of quite a lot of time and money.
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