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Old 10-10-2005, 03:18 PM   #1
monkeywrench
 
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Fuel pump limits

Many have asked me what the limits of the stock fuel pump are. While there is no definitive answer, here are some results of testing on our recently turbo'd GTS:

Stock fuel pump
idle fuel pressure 48psi
on-boost fuel pressure 37psi

MWR 255lph fuel pump
idle fuel pressure 52psi
on-boost fuel pressure 49psi

The car is making 275whp on the stock engine, 6.5-7psi boost. We have our 460cc injectors in there and they were maxing out with the stock pump in there. With the MWR pump we had to scale the tuning way back and the injectors are running at a comfortable pulsewidth now. Tuning is also a lot easier when you don't have to fight the pressure drop-off.

I was watching and any time the boost was up the stock pump was dropping off. You'll notice the MWR pump drops slightly too- that is because of the in-tank regulator. It can't account for pressure drop through the lines, which appears to be ~3psi at high flow rates. This is not a problem. The MWR can flow MUCH more fuel than what's required at this power level.

We do a ton of testing on this stuff and I often forget to share the results with the public. I'm going to try to do that more.
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2001 Celica LSR car 823whp 2ZZ @ 41psi / [email protected] at 28psi / 202mph @ 25psi in the standing mile
2000 Celica GT-S 412whp with MWR turbo @ 16psi and stock engine / 550whp with MWR turbo @ 26psi on 93 octane - [email protected] on 93 octane
2005 Lotus Elise V6 295whp NA / 360whp 3.5psi SC
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Old 10-10-2005, 03:53 PM   #2
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Great information.
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Old 10-10-2005, 08:53 PM   #3
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Thanks Matt.
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Old 10-11-2005, 08:43 AM   #4
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Yeah good info. YGPM MWR....
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Old 10-11-2005, 09:05 AM   #5
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And to emphasize the problem, at 7psi I went from 30psi relative fuel pressure (fuel pressure-manifold pressure) to 42psi. That's a big improvement.
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2001 Celica LSR car 823whp 2ZZ @ 41psi / [email protected] at 28psi / 202mph @ 25psi in the standing mile
2000 Celica GT-S 412whp with MWR turbo @ 16psi and stock engine / 550whp with MWR turbo @ 26psi on 93 octane - [email protected] on 93 octane
2005 Lotus Elise V6 295whp NA / 360whp 3.5psi SC
2001 MR2-S turbo - 508 whp - [email protected]
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Old 10-11-2005, 09:20 AM   #6
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good stuff man, could u post info that you forgot to?? i like seeing specs before and after, good stuff.....
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Old 10-11-2005, 02:11 PM   #7
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great info matt, i cant believe you are making so much power on such a low boost...took me 11psi to make 276HP..of course i know that turbo plays a part in that
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Old 10-11-2005, 02:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smaay
great info matt, i cant believe you are making so much power on such a low boost...took me 11psi to make 276HP..of course i know that turbo plays a part in that
Tune has a lot to do with it too. Remember that they have 93 Octane up there.
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Old 10-12-2005, 03:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smaay
great info matt, i cant believe you are making so much power on such a low boost...took me 11psi to make 276HP..of course i know that turbo plays a part in that
Tune has a lot to do with it too. Remember that they have 93 Octane up there.
94 is also readily available here.
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Old 10-12-2005, 08:21 PM   #10
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Matt probably copied our manifold when he saw my car up there....right matt


just messin, btw you ever get that elise done that was in there?
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:38 AM   #11
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Just to clarify further, the stock fuel pump can support power up to ~270whp?

I'm asking because I want to run a small amount of nitrous (50hp) next month and with my ricer math, I should be at approx 180whp anyway, so I'll be ok right?
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Old 06-04-2009, 07:35 AM   #12
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Good stuff, Matt...

Here's data logs supporting what Matt was saying so you can graphically see the pressure curves.

These are simple dyno pulls taken with identical engine setups and then tweaked tune to take advantage of the extra fueling capacity as indicated by the richer AFRs.

Stock Pump:



255LPH Walbro Pump:



Best,

Phil
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:08 PM   #13
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Great info - thanks Phil and Matt


Sticky.
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:37 PM   #14
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Phil, how much boost was that at?
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:53 PM   #15
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So looks like I'll be fine to project up to a max of 270whp on the stock pump......
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:56 PM   #16
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10-10.5psi final on 9:1 compression. The high/stock comp engines need more gas yet-- but they make more power too, so..........

Also, regarding fuel demand for the SC'ed cars, the TVS has less parasitic drag than the 62, so the fuel demands to achieve the same whp will be greater for the M62 engines than what you see above... In otherwords, if you were/are running 275whp on the stock pump with a 62, you'll see an even bigger pressure drop up top in FP...

Hope that helps,

Phil
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:02 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Celicasaur View Post
So looks like I'll be fine to project up to a max of 270whp on the stock pump......
Depends on your FI system to some degree. Regardless, you're having to run the injectors (if 550s) well into the 90+%DC to get to that kind of power with the stock pump at redline... so you may be able to get away with it, but it's not really "right"-- i.e. very little margin. You should probably pinch the rev limit if you're going to play that game... Just do that math on the DC as you approach redline and see what you've got to play with-- it won't be much with the stock pump. I tried hot wiring the stocker just to see if it helped. I got a whopping 1 psi increase, so no real help there. Just gotta replace it with something better...

PV
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:55 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrench View Post
MWR 255lph fuel pump
idle fuel pressure 52psi
on-boost fuel pressure 49psi
so on the stock motor
I have mwr 255 walbro
MWR FPR kit w/return line etc...

what should fuel pressure be set to?
those numbers above w/700cc injectors?
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