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Old 03-27-2013, 09:22 AM   #1
maveric22
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Toyota Celica+ Nissan Silvia (180SX)

The FWD aspect has been an issue for me since day one in my Celica and I have seen builds such as the AWD 3SGTE Fensport Celica, the Suprica and The Boxer engine in the celica that never got finished.
Originally I wanted to build an AWD celica but realized that might break my budget (32k). I would also have issues competing against the factory AWD turbocharged evos and STI's.
I know Tyler from Tyler Wolfson Racing and love how far he has made it the last couple of drift seasons. So the idea hit me. Why not a RWD celica built with a SR20DET engine and transmission from a 1991 180SX.
I obviously would add more weight to the rear so I wont have the suprica traction issues I have been told about.


Obviously it would be a major project and take me close to a year, But could you imagine a RWD 7th Gen Celica built with a Nissan components?
I think about 350 to 400 hp would be enough and it would be a track car only.
I am looking for a donor car now.

I don't want a 180sx and I love the look of the Celica.
Also I was unhappy with the FRS when I test drove it and I feel like everyone at the track brings them out to drift, it is almost as bad as the mustangs.

My question is what are your thoughts?
Please no trolling and only constructive thoughts.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:24 AM   #2
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Do it. As a 240 and celica owner id love to see it done.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:33 AM   #3
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No to the SR20... Either 3SGTE it or hell do a RWD 2ZZ.. Nissans are suppose to have Toyota motors put into them, not the other way around..
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:44 AM   #4
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No to the SR20... Either 3SGTE it or hell do a RWD 2ZZ.. Nissans are suppose to have Toyota motors put into them, not the other way around..
With what transmission. I want something I can drop in.... not some custom bolt up transmission.
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And your research is supposed to outweigh Maverick's experience?
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Actually your airbag will go off at any minute

You should stick your genitals in some peanut butter
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:57 AM   #5
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id love to see it done.
Me too.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:59 AM   #6
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With what transmission. I want something I can drop in.... not some custom bolt up transmission.
mr2 tranny

they make adapter plates to make it fit


mr2 is bulletproof
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:05 AM   #7
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mr2 tranny

they make adapter plates to make it fit


mr2 is bulletproof
But that still wouldn't be rwd
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:15 AM   #8
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mid engine ftw

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Old 03-27-2013, 10:17 AM   #9
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mid engine ftw

someone made a mid engine "coupe celica" and it looked....odd...

i say just put a 2jz in it rwd, why do you want a nissan motor? just wondering

but either way, any rwd celica would be sick, despite what motor it has in it
do it!
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:17 AM   #10
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I love sr20s but they're noisy as fuck lol hell id be nice to drop an rb26 in there but theres no way id fit they have clearance issues in the s chassis and the engine bay is HUGE
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:19 AM   #11
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With what transmission. I want something I can drop in.... not some custom bolt up transmission.
for most fwd - rwd conversion when retaining the original motor the different model trans will need a custom bell housing to make it 'drop in' that said there are companies that can make these for cheaper than you think.

i can photoshop an s13 front to a celica or i can photoshop a celica front to an s13
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:32 AM   #12
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and no, if i dropped the SR20 in with the transmission, I would not need a custom one made.
I want to see pictures of this mid engine celica.

If I wanted mid engine, I would get an MRS or an Elise.
I chose the Nissan platform because the 2JZ has major traction issues because the front weighs way too much and the rear is too light. I want to keep it balanced and limit firewall modification.
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And your research is supposed to outweigh Maverick's experience?
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Actually your airbag will go off at any minute

You should stick your genitals in some peanut butter
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:51 AM   #13
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Do it
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:24 PM   #14
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make sure you get a real SR not an american one
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:12 PM   #15
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it is not clear what you are trying to achieve....
fun? race car? what category? drifting car?
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:32 PM   #16
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drift car.
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Quote:
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And your research is supposed to outweigh Maverick's experience?
Quote:
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Actually your airbag will go off at any minute

You should stick your genitals in some peanut butter
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:01 PM   #17
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not a celica, a nissan with a toyota body.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:04 PM   #18
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I'm pretty much failing to see how anything is just going to 'drop in' when you're taking a car and platform that's FWD and always has been and trying to make it RWD. Forget that idea. You're going to pretty much do like the Suprica but with whatever engine and trans you want.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:18 PM   #19
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Suprica ftw

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Old 03-27-2013, 07:25 PM   #20
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Do it.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:46 PM   #21
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Yeah dude I'm just gonna go on the record and say your gonna need at least 20k to blow on the conversion.... I only did my conversion to spite someone. Your better off mating your 2zz to a w58 like the super 7 guys and using the matrix awd rear end... that bolts right in .... use the matrix drive shaft cut down and mod the mounts. Your still looking at 10k ish. Nothing is going to just drop in ... you can come over any time and I will show you the bullshit I went through lol
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:47 PM   #22
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i hope you have deep pockets
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:52 PM   #23
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i hope you have deep pockets
Very very very deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:20 PM   #24
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Also my traction issues may involve the big single on my car lol I just went 77mm so if you can get traction with that much power I would be impressed stock frame cars don't like power
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:21 PM   #25
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Also my traction issues may involve the big single on my car lol I just went 77mm so if you can get traction with that much power I would be impressed stock frame cars don't like power
what size tires are you running? hell i ran 180's on my celica with a few bolt on mods and i was able to break loose in 3rd gear on the highway lol
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:30 PM   #26
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what size tires are you running? hell i ran 180's on my celica with a few bolt on mods and i was able to break loose in 3rd gear on the highway lol
Depends on what wheels are on the car for the most part I run my 19" work vskf wheels in a 275 rear but I have spun with my ccws and they were 16x14" wide ccw classics
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:31 PM   #27
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Depends on what wheels are on the car for the most part I run my 19" work vskf wheels in a 275 rear but I have spun with my ccws and they were 16x14" wide ccw classics
jesus that's impressive
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:34 PM   #28
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Another thing its going to take more than a year to swap lol its taken me 4 or 5 I quit counting
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:49 PM   #29
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Worth it
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:55 PM   #30
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Worth it
x2
and imagine how much you'll learn about cars if you do the swap yourself
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:57 PM   #31
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Its a cool idea but I'm telling you its not worth it if I had it to do over again I would not
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:58 PM   #32
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Its a cool idea but I'm telling you its not worth it if I had it to do over again I would not
i imagine for the money you dumped into the celica you could get a nice r34 skyline, register it here, and still have another 10-20k left over
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:01 PM   #33
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I could buy a used Gtr for 10 more
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:13 PM   #34
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You say you didn't like how the fr-s drove, but im sure you could make it fun if you firmed up the suspension an little, and if you wanted extra power, throw a turbo or supercharger on it. Here are a couple examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCiLPgzQcHg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXBux6psPac

Or keep your celi for a daily, and buy an s2000. From what I hear, they are some of the funnest cars to drive.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:19 PM   #35
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You can buy a FRS and sell the Celica for the cash u can sell the Celica for add maybe 2k or so and you can buy the 2jzgte swap kit for the FRS
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:47 PM   #36
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With what transmission. I want something I can drop in.... not some custom bolt up transmission.
There is a RWD 3S motor that Toyota made from the factory, it is called the Altezza RS2000, I don't see why that tranny wouldn't fit on a 3SGTE. And like sc2jz said, you can make the 2ZZ RWD..
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:49 PM   #37
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use the frs drivetrain turn your 2zz sideways
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:46 PM   #38
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Buy gt86, replace body with celica body, job done lol
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:40 AM   #39
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beams blacktop from RS200
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:47 AM   #40
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the amount of stupidity on this thread is ridiculous... god...

Mav, this is an idea i toyed with myself and i even did a lot of research on it. buttt im only 18 so the money and skills for this were way out of my reach. the SR20det is one of the best I-4s ever made. It can take 400 horse on stock internals (yea, double our shitty toyota zz engines) and the trans can take every horse of it. No trans mods needed until 500+. Its an amazing engine that would be in an amazing looking car. I dont car what anyone says CELICAS ARE VERY SLOWWWWWW. Yes they can hold their own put put them up against a cobalt or srt4 with a decent driver and we get butt raped.

a lot of this is because of the engine being about as strong as a cbr, but twice the weight and part is the fwd. But there is unfortunately one other problem: the car itself.

There is a reason there is no such thing as a 10 second celica. Not even the Suprica can do a 10 second quarter simply because of the way they were built. The frames materials are cheap, and designed to save weight. The rigidity is depressing, and the car is what it is: an economy car. It can barely be considered an entry level sports car.

If you want to have a one of a kind car, do it. If you want to learn how cars are made and why things are built from the factory the way they are, do it. If you want a fast car that can beat almost anything unmodded that cost less than 6 digits, do it. If you want all that for less money, get something else.

I know I'm a few months off but i figured id give you an educated response instead of the geniuses up there saying your supposed to swap toyota engines into nissans and you could get an r34 for $10k less.... hahaha... dumbasses...
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:25 PM   #41
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educated response
please tell us more about how your poorly structured sentences, grammatical errors and 'research' qualify your post as an educated response.
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:55 PM   #42
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the amount of stupidity on this thread is ridiculous... god...

There is a reason there is no such thing as a 10 second celica. Not even the Suprica can do a 10 second quarter simply because of the way they were built.
2 Parter here guys.
first yes you added to the stupidity

second my car went 11.2 right before the trans cross member snapped mid pass. that was from a week member. know that i know the weak point in my car its gettting a full over hall and new frames.

*NOTE THE CAR HAS BROKE 3 TRANS CROSSMEMBERS just part of working kinnks out of a stock unibody RWD conversion
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:55 PM   #43
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the amount of stupidity on this thread is ridiculous... god...

Mav, this is an idea i toyed with myself and i even did a lot of research on it. buttt im only 18 so the money and skills for this were way out of my reach. the SR20det is one of the best I-4s ever made. It can take 400 horse on stock internals (yea, double our shitty toyota zz engines) and the trans can take every horse of it. No trans mods needed until 500+. Its an amazing engine that would be in an amazing looking car. I dont car what anyone says CELICAS ARE VERY SLOWWWWWW. Yes they can hold their own put put them up against a cobalt or srt4 with a decent driver and we get butt raped.

a lot of this is because of the engine being about as strong as a cbr, but twice the weight and part is the fwd. But there is unfortunately one other problem: the car itself.

There is a reason there is no such thing as a 10 second celica. Not even the Suprica can do a 10 second quarter simply because of the way they were built. The frames materials are cheap, and designed to save weight. The rigidity is depressing, and the car is what it is: an economy car. It can barely be considered an entry level sports car.

If you want to have a one of a kind car, do it. If you want to learn how cars are made and why things are built from the factory the way they are, do it. If you want a fast car that can beat almost anything unmodded that cost less than 6 digits, do it. If you want all that for less money, get something else.

I know I'm a few months off but i figured id give you an educated response instead of the geniuses up there saying your supposed to swap toyota engines into nissans and you could get an r34 for $10k less.... hahaha... dumbasses...
if it was all about speed why on earth would you spend 10k on it. get a 2wd toyota pickup and put a big block in it for like 2k. or some other cheap speed project. celica is for the looks.
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:29 PM   #44
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please tell us more about how your poorly structured sentences, grammatical errors and 'research' qualify your post as an educated response.
first, im an engineer, not an english major. Therefore i dont know or care about spelling and grammar unless its a report my boss is going to see. I also didnt find any gramatical errors, so great job there.

Second ive looked through toyotas technical articles and read a lot about how they design sports car frames vs economy car frames. They always make them strong enough to fit the strongest cars needs up to a certain mileage, and cheap enough for the slowest version of the car. The car was never designed to play with the big boys, but pure power can get it there.

I can pull you yield strengths of materials and pull FEA analysis if i can find it but the best way to see it is to look at the numbers. Celicas are not the fastest cars around. We are beaten by most cars close to our power, modded or not. Thats not supposed to be possible because of how light we are.

I am currently designing a 1/6th scale formula 1 car with my team at the university. Yes, i know a thing or two about what makes a race car fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sc2jz View Post
2 Parter here guys.
first yes you added to the stupidity

second my car went 11.2 right before the trans cross member snapped mid pass. that was from a week member. know that i know the weak point in my car its gettting a full over hall and new frames.
Yet after what, 40k now? And your still 1.2 seconds off of a 10 second car. Your car is a beast. No doubt. But think of how much easier it would have been to get a supra, which weighs more, to run that same time? You would probably just need cams, a turbo swap, and wider tires. The celi wasnt weighted for rwd and the chassis, suspension included, were never designed to put grip to the rear wheels. Thats why you have grip trouble and thats why you keep breaking cross members. Its taking stress it wasnt made for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickush View Post
if it was all about speed why on earth would you spend 10k on it. get a 2wd toyota pickup and put a big block in it for like 2k. or some other cheap speed project. celica is for the looks.
I know its for the looks. Hence why i didnt say "dont do it". I like the look of the S15 silvia myself. I hate the 14s and 13s. If i hated the S15 as well i would have seriously considered this myself. Hell, i might even have started getting parts for it. Sleepers are only fun if you do a lot of racing but most people want something to show off. The celica is absolutely a car to be proud of. The zz just takes a ridiculous amount of money to make fast.

Dont get me wrong, i love my celica. It sounds fantastic and is probably one of the most fun cars to drive. Especially for fwd. You can make anything fast but for what cost is the question. If youre willing to spend the money, that is probably the best engine and the best looking car he could do it with. Also close to the best prices he could hope to do it with.

If i had the time and money i would do this build myself. But the celica will just never be a 10 second car. You have to know that when setting your goals for a build.
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:39 PM   #45
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Lol my car was built out of spite and I have a 1000whp+ soarer lol just saying it can be done and the car is much stronger unibody than u think I have no cage and on stock unibody and I have had no twisting my problems have been from I'm in deep space per say where no one has ever been with one of these cars but I'm to the point now I'm figuring the kinks out
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:06 PM   #46
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First off, you are not an engineer or you would already know. You are in school studying to become an engineer. Your first year into your major only shows that you know how to pass calculus and work a computer.

Just because you are using a 600cc motor cycle engine and designing a tube chasis scale vehicle around a restrictor plate does not at all qualify you knowledgeable in making a race car fast. SAE cars are all about efficiency but I guess you'll learn that the more you hang out with the people who actually know what they are doing.

Celicas were not designed to be the fastest car around. They were engineered as commuter cars and sought after by autocross and road course drivers because of their light weight and independent rear suspension that made them well handling momentum cars.

When someone decides to alter its original purpose such as the suprica they are undoubtedly going to run into several issues with the build because you are re engineering the car. But again you'll learn all about that soon enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skylin4 View Post
first, im an engineer, not an english major. Therefore i dont know or care about spelling and grammar unless its a report my boss is going to see. I also didnt find any gramatical errors, so great job there.

Second ive looked through toyotas technical articles and read a lot about how they design sports car frames vs economy car frames. They always make them strong enough to fit the strongest cars needs up to a certain mileage, and cheap enough for the slowest version of the car. The car was never designed to play with the big boys, but pure power can get it there.

I can pull you yield strengths of materials and pull FEA analysis if i can find it but the best way to see it is to look at the numbers. Celicas are not the fastest cars around. We are beaten by most cars close to our power, modded or not. Thats not supposed to be possible because of how light we are.

I am currently designing a 1/6th scale formula 1 car with my team at the university. Yes, i know a thing or two about what makes a race car fast.
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:00 PM   #47
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so what i dont understand 2k is where i am supposed to be wrong. You just repeated exactly what i said with the exception of that when you re-engineer something it won't perform as well as something that was designed for it from the beginning. Everything you just stated was correct and similar to what i said, so why are you arguing with me when it sounds like you agree?

Also, kudos for knowing about SAE cars, as most people don't. Yes, ours is tube frame but others are monocoque and unibody is really just a hybrid between the two. Considering how much input ive had on the car that has been taken and used by the senior team members, I would say not only am i more qualified than many on the forum (most but not all. You sound more knowledgeable than me.), but that the only real problem with what i said is that it is offensive to a lot of the forum members. In comparison to the tried and true sports cars are celicas not slow?

When you start comparing a car to something out of its class the underclassed are at a huge disadvantage. Most cannot overcome that disadvantage, and on the drag strip the celica is one of them. In corners thats a different story. The celica handles better than most. But its frame isnt made for a quarter mile at a time. Therefore it will never do quite as well as something that was.

Going back to the OP's goal if you want a drifting car yea, the celi might be a good choice when you swap it to RWD. You just have to decide if its worth the money to you. It is easily possible. Anything is, for the right price. If you want a drag car though you are looking in the wrong place.
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:13 PM   #48
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Outside looking in ... I am not an engineer I have experience in pipe fitting and construction welding behind me I built my car for the simple reason a person said it could not be done. I built my car out of spite and had honestly no clue as to what I was doing. I went to a formula d event to steal ideas from tanner fousts rouge squad tc and built the car off pics and what I could remember. I did not ask for any help or instite on how to do it. I started cutting up this car with no plan other than to 100% thoroughly piss off a person and did not care what it would cost. I have learned so much on my own concerning suspension geometry, unibody construction, wiring, and metal working its not funny I can randomly tell you sizes on frame points of the car on width height wall thickness etc etc. I will be the first person to tell you the car is pointless and no one should try. I am one of the only people to attempt red conversion to a 7th gen and the ONLY to complete a street legal running and driving conversion. I am a part of a small fraternity of people to do this.

Now learning what I have learned and doing to my car what I have done in testing things. Is that these little cars are far stronger than the average person or a person that deals with them gives them credit for. I have beat on this car to find every week point I could and then replace that part as I got there. I have had no frame warping , no seem separation of stick unibody , no sheet metal tears nor any buckling. My problem at this point is getting power to the ground. And that is about to change drasticly to the point I am starting over on the car . I know now what works what does not and how to make the correct frame geometry.

So my point is this unless you are knee deep into a build like this you can not tell a person the weakness or the strengths of the starting platform as it has to be engendered to handle a slew of new problems. You can not go off what the manufacturer says about what the car is or is not capable of such as if the body can or can not hold a red torque platform. I will tell you yes a stock unibody Celica will hold a 2jzgte with a 77mm turbo all day and launch and do burn outs no problem and if you don't believe me ask my neighbor that loves it when I make videos in front of the house burning cheap tires off the car .

Comes down to " those who talk ,talk , those who do , do"
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:24 PM   #49
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please tell me you succeeded in pissing the guy off???

I never said it couldnt do it. Every single product built should have something called a "factor of safety" built into it. This is the extra strength they give to the product to cover unexpected circumstances, and errors in the manufacturing. Basically the shit-happens factor. That alone should cover your warping and major issues, but it wont do it as well as something that was made for it in the first place. That is my point. In comparison to others it is typically slower. But almost any automobile is a feat of engineering.
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:27 PM   #50
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Thoroughly to the point my tag says "spite"
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