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Old 05-30-2017, 10:43 AM   #1
JakesFate
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Celica AWD Build thread

Hello everyone!

Okay so this has been long awaited, but still no steps to do so. I will be taking it upon myself to document all the steps I take to make a 2zz awd using mostly bolt on parts. So far I have sourced a few parts in order to get this to work for a fair price. My plan was to source everything from a RX300 since same wheelbase and the Celica seems to have the same mounting locations. The only difference is the way the rear is setup there is no leaf spring. After spending two days at the junkyard getting my parts I learned the transfer case was destroyed inside. That was a waste of time. on the upside I got a small diff that should bolt into the celica with minimal mounting and I am sure no cutting.

The parts I have sourced so far:
1999 Lexus Rx300:
- Rear axles
- Front axles
- Rear differential
- Drive shaft
Total cost = $167

My plan is to get the remaining parts and still keep the cost low. I would also like to keep it simple so more people will be able to do the conversion.

The plan right now is to source a 153 transmission with a transfer case or better yet a 154f which I hear some Rav4s have. After I get the new tranny I have a feeling the axles from the U140 will not work with the 153. I will be doing more research on this otherwise its back to the junkyard looking for parts

If anyone has anything to add please do,
But for now its off to the garage.
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:04 AM   #2
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So I am going to explain a little more of why I chose the Rx300 for the rear diff.
Looking at this post on another forum here

You can see from the images he posted it mounts almost exactly like the rx300 rear diff

There build



Rx300



So after seeing that it became clear to me that it would be easier to just drop the whole rear sub-frame at the junkyard and have it charged as a third member which keeps the cost low
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:17 AM   #3
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Mounting a diff is not hard. More issues are with the suspension etc. A Toyota matrix has everything you need to bolt on the back. It's AWD and Celica are the same chassis. It's literally a bolt on application. However I would not use the matrix rear diff with any power upgrades...

The only thing that has stopped me from doing this is the transmission. I cannot seem to find a transfer case that clears the 2ZZ block. The guy in Russia has but he is not sharing information.

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Old 05-30-2017, 11:40 AM   #4
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That is true, The easiest thing to do would be to just use the matrix, but here in WA you will not find a matrix. The price is also not very light on the pocket. The diff on the Rx is the same as in a sienna which has a lot of weight to move so I assume it is a little stronger. It should bolt on either way it seems there are the same mounts at this point I am looking at just replacing the hubs.

As for the transfer case. I've been trying to compare the transfer case in the sienna/rx300 Which both use a 1mz/3mz platform with not a lot of room. I have taken a look at both of them and it is fit in there tight. I haven't gotten my hands on a 154 transfer case, but looking at a highlander and rav4 Assuming they are similar in size they seem to be a little bit bigger than the sienna/rx. May need more information to confirm this


Edit:
I found a place that imports transmissions and engines. I will be seeing if they will let me compare both transfer cases they have in stock
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:51 PM   #5
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Taking a closer look today at the sienna, Rav4, and surprisingly a u140f transmission off a matrix awd. Comparing them all my theory was correct the Sienna/Rx transfer case is smaller.

Here I have a image comparison of them all

The original 154f tranny off a alltrack





As you can see it is a little large and the round bell part of it is what I assume makes it tough to mount to the 2zz although on the u140 the matrix tranny





The bell end seems to disappear it becomes squished and flat on that end for easy mounting on the 1zz matrix I suspect. Although comparing it to the rav4 transfer case from a 2001-2005 transfer case



They look like they would definitely bolt up and work no matter what.
Lastly we have the transfer case I can source very easily here. The sienna/Rx/highlander all of these use a v6 1mzfe,3mz. All of them before the 2gr switch ie, before 2006 they seem like the best bet for people with a 153 tranny




It is completely flat on one end making it in my opinion the best transfer case for this project. I will try to get a rav4 transfer case and figure out the in depth difference, From the research I have done right now It looks like if I want to have a e153 I will need the Rx transfer case, If I want something to bolt up to my c60 I will need to find the rav4 transfer case. The main difference is the axles one for 4cyl one for 6, c60 vs e153...

Will be back with more information

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Old 05-30-2017, 04:24 PM   #6
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:27 PM   #7
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I love how Toyota's are all like Legos!
I totally agree its a great way to keep cost down and a awesome way to mod and make it look stock
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:45 PM   #8
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Most car companies are like Legos. Toyota is actually tough compared to Audi

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Old 05-30-2017, 11:10 PM   #9
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The conversion would be more like Legos if I had the automatic version since there is a place to mount the transfer case on the c60,c59 there are no mounting holes. So only way to get it to mount is to source a new transmission. Which is the next step I am looking at pulling it from a 99 Camry v6... Very easy to find at my local junk yard
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:38 AM   #10
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Curious to see how this turns out.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:46 AM   #11
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Right now I'm looking for a way I can do a diy 153 swap so I can keep the cost low so everyone will be able to do the AWD conversion verily cheap, sure I could get the mwr but at a price of 5k it's about 27 times more than what I payed to get all the parts for a awd, right now the transmission is what is holding me back

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Old 05-31-2017, 12:39 PM   #12
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Another update

Found this read although google translate makes it a little tough to read, Someone posted there process of mating a e series transmission using the rav4 transfer case then showing how the e154f from a all track is too big like I have stated earlier. If you want to take a look you can read it here

So it is possible just need either the e153 or apparently the E359F almost exact gear ratio but apparently according to Toyota it is full time awd unlike the 154f which apparently is only part time
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:50 PM   #13
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Finally getting some parts, Pulled a transfer case off a 99 rav4 the design of it is very interesting. It is a full time awd but the way it is built is pretty cool too me.





As you can see there is a small axle hollowed out to let the passenger side axle go through to the transmission, The hollowed one drives the rear differential. Still not everything I need it came off a auto trans so I am still looking for a manual that it will mate too, but looking at the sizes I have after looking at the transmission for the matrix they are almost identical, the rav4 is a little bit longer, but it wont be a problem.
You can take a look here


Matrix awd trans


So now after that I can tell you that I saved about $800 by getting the transfer case from a junk yard for $50. So let me explain a little of why I decided to not get a E153 and am trying to get a rav4 E250. First of all the early rav4 is based off a old corolla platform... The same platform as the matrix and celica. So I am guessing most of the parts will work. Now the reason I am trying to get the E250 (I'm not saying that this cant be done without the 153, in fact if you already have a e153 or a auto trans you can do this with just getting the parts I have listed along with a transfer case) The e250 on a first and second gen rav4 has a final drive of 4.9. why would that be interesting at all it is because of the extra torque. Adding two wheels to the back and having a full time AWD I need the torque to have enough power making it truly AWD. Although comparing it to a 154f from a all track the only difference is the first gear on the rav4 it is a little taller.

Next step get transmission

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Old 06-28-2017, 10:07 PM   #14
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tfw links to pics died
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:20 AM   #15
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Pics not working

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Old 06-29-2017, 09:50 AM   #16
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tfw links to pics died
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Originally Posted by DxBOY15 View Post
Pics not working

:


Updated all the links, From what I can see it works now. Thanks for letting me know. Still sourcing a working trans, all the ones I can get around here are either in the wrong price range or broken. Will update the thread as soon as I get the trans... Better do it fast my c60 is going out fast.

Thanks,
Jake
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Old 06-30-2017, 10:30 AM   #17
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following this thread.... so the 1zz autos can make the direct swap with no ECU mods??? Does the driveline fit jointly with the exhaust?? I've always wondered if I could swap the Matrix' awd driveline to mine, but I always thought it was bs and that people would stick the AWD logo to look cool, like BMW owners do with the M badge or the SI crowd... I wasn't ready to sprawl in some parking lot to look under a Matrix until now... maybe you'll answer these questions later. Still following your steps incase I do a GTS swap, or just buy a GTS. Thanks for taking the plunge for us.
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Old 06-30-2017, 11:31 AM   #18
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following this thread.... so the 1zz autos can make the direct swap with no ECU mods??? Does the drive line fit jointly with the exhaust?? I've always wondered if I could swap the Matrix' awd drive line to mine, but I always thought it was bs and that people would stick the AWD logo to look cool, like BMW owners do with the M badge or the SI crowd... I wasn't ready to sprawl in some parking lot to look under a Matrix until now... maybe you'll answer these questions later. Still following your steps in case I do a GTS swap, or just buy a GTS. Thanks for taking the plunge for us.

I am gonna have to take back what I said about the autos. Me being excited and jumping to conclusions didn't account for that the matrix u340 has a custom bell housing for it to bolt up. they are the same in every way except the way the awd mates up. Sorry about my false hope I was more focused on the manual I didn't check too deep into auto because in my opinion why would I want a 4 speed auto. So in order for a 1zz to make the swap they would need the trans from the matrix... If you want to know how to make it work someone did it with a vibe that link is here to my knowledge they wouldnt need to mod the ecu since they are the same trans in every way except the one little part where the transfer case hooks up. Now the transfer case doesn't have any wires going to it it is basically just a differential that bolts up to your transmission. the one I chose was a 50/50 lsd off a rav4. but there are different types. Still they are just a front differential you could bolt it up and the ecu wouldnt know or even want to know. Last thing is a custom exhaust will be needed. In my case I will be doing the full exhaust, but keep in mind the only problem with making the exhaust fit is the pipe that goes under the rear wheels to the muffler. It is possible to just cut that and mount a pipe that goes over. I will go more into detail later about what I will do.


One more thing I would like to note is that reading that 1zz vibe awd conversion is in GTS * Jason's topic on here no one wanted to cut into the block... Well they did it in that thread to make the transmission fit to the 1zz.



So in from looking at all of this the problem most people had which is


wouldnt be as scary to attempt to cut. Will keep everyone updated as the process goes on.
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Old 07-15-2017, 04:09 AM   #19
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It is not possible to fit the transmission of a celica gt4 st205 into 2zzge in any way? This transmission is perfect for its robustness and supports HP extras.

* I have studied for some time thanks in part to the people of fensport uk that there is a corolla only sold in japan (corolla runx X type) that uses 4wd with motor 1zz but only available in auto trans 4 speed, but this chassis fits its bridge Rear subframe and differential support in chassis of celica almost to perfection only making a small cut in floor of the trunk, apart the front engine bridge also adapts to perfection leaving more space for the transfer of the gearbox
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Old 07-15-2017, 04:21 AM   #20
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this is the car.....

https://www.tradecarview.com/es/used...runx/20796508/

https://www.tradecarview.com/es/used...runx/21081437/

Everything is sure that if there are other models type of corolla in 4wd of these years they will share parts and they will serve, these in particular are 1.5 motor type but if there are 1.8 1zz what if I do not know and I think there is no possibility of 4wd with manual gearbox In these corolla. And if you look at the pictures of the low back links are identical to those of a celica, the fuel tank would also have to be exchanged since it leaves space for the cardan and the celica I think not.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:40 AM   #21
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The 1ZZ AWD needs a clearance on the back of the block that the 2ZZ block does not have. It would interfere with something, maybe an oil passage. It's not a very robust AWD on the 1ZZ anyway. I do believe that the E153 bolts to the 2ZZ, but I don't know if the AWD E153F has the same clearance issues as the AWD parts from the 1ZZ setup.
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:51 PM   #22
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It is not possible to fit the transmission of a celica gt4 st205 into 2zzge in any way? This transmission is perfect for its robustness and supports HP extras.

* I have studied for some time thanks in part to the people of fensport uk that there is a corolla only sold in japan (corolla runx X type) that uses 4wd with motor 1zz but only available in auto trans 4 speed, but this chassis fits its bridge Rear subframe and differential support in chassis of celica almost to perfection only making a small cut in floor of the trunk, apart the front engine bridge also adapts to perfection leaving more space for the transfer of the gearbox
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this is the car.....

https://www.tradecarview.com/es/used...runx/20796508/

https://www.tradecarview.com/es/used...runx/21081437/

Everything is sure that if there are other models type of corolla in 4wd of these years they will share parts and they will serve, these in particular are 1.5 motor type but if there are 1.8 1zz what if I do not know and I think there is no possibility of 4wd with manual gearbox In these corolla. And if you look at the pictures of the low back links are identical to those of a celica, the fuel tank would also have to be exchanged since it leaves space for the cardan and the celica I think not.
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The 1ZZ AWD needs a clearance on the back of the block that the 2ZZ block does not have. It would interfere with something, maybe an oil passage. It's not a very robust AWD on the 1ZZ anyway. I do believe that the E153 bolts to the 2ZZ, but I don't know if the AWD E153F has the same clearance issues as the AWD parts from the 1ZZ setup.
I'm gonna try to reply to both of you and give you the information as I know it. I know its taking me some time to find a trans that will work and honestly the problem inst the transmission its more of affordability.

Now to answer r1's question: The 154 transmission isnt a problem you can use it it will fit just as well as a 153 the problem isn't so much the transmission as it is the transfer case. I do agree that the 154 transmission is pretty bullet proof, I'm not saying you cant use it I;m saying you cant use the transfer case you will have to get a newer one which fortunately there all the same bolt on so if you get one that is smaller. I picked up the rav4 one which is pretty universal with the rx300,sienna, and matrix yadda yadda yadda. you can also see the picture I previously posed showing a 154 transmission and how it doesn't quite line up


Second thing you had was that the run x which is a corolla and we do share the chassis as a old corolla, the problem is they only made awd things auto. I have no idea why. The car I found that uses the same chassis and a manual was the rav4. I'm not saying it will work and that's why I have been taking a little longer making sure I won't be out a ton of money if things go sideways

Lastly to answer bitter... Not really answer just steer in the right direction. Firstly the e153 wont bolt up you need a adapter plate to make it work. only transmission that bolt to the zz block are C series engines. Also the second thing. The 1zz has two different blocks one for the awd platform and one for 2wd. In a previous post I showed someone with a 1zz who cut into the block to get the trans and transfer case in.... unfortunately it was a auto.. I linked the forum I found the post on if you have a 1zz it might help. Finally the 2zz block may not have enough clearance... I am waiting for my spare block to get here so I can do some cutting because there is no proof that there is oil passage there its just thought to be there. Who knows maybe without the big monster of a transfer case the 154f is it might not need cutting... Also a noting where the transfer case goes there is a motor mount in the way so possibly wont have trouble cutting if needed....

Thats all I know for now still waiting on parts
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Old 07-16-2017, 03:32 AM   #23
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ahh ok thanks for the info!!
I will be very attentive to this forum as I will in the future try to do!
Here in Spain we have rav4, of which year they share chassis ??
Since I think it would be more economical than parts of a gt4 and that are harder to find around here.
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:07 AM   #24
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ahh ok thanks for the info!!
I will be very attentive to this forum as I will in the future try to do!
Here in Spain we have rav4, of which year they share chassis ??
Since I think it would be more economical than parts of a gt4 and that are harder to find around here.


There share the same up to 2005. after that they got a little longer so a custom drive shaft is needed
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:10 PM   #25
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Celica AWD Build thread

Jake, congrats on documenting your finds! This was also covered in the *GTS Jason thread. But you better focus on the 'centre diff lock' to consider what you are doing.

The 1st gens matrix have rear viscous coupler to transmit power 'anti slip' mode. Not to mention auto makers define part-time/full-time in their own fashion. True part-time/full-time is something different.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=pN6-gCxI60g

If you could document how that works for 2nd gen matrix, rx300, sienna ,rav4 there is good reason we think the Russian celica uses this but nobody wanted that setup. It would be good for snow drifting

http://www.rav4world.com/pdf/2006/2006_4wdsystem.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakesFate;post=6260577
So it is possible just need either the e153 or apparently the E359F almost exact gear ratio but apparently according to Toyota it is full time awd unlike the 154f which apparently is only part time
Not true. E15xf is full-time determined by 'centre lock' mode. E154f does not have the locking lever.

https://rav4gtt.files.wordpress.com/...nodifflock.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakesFate View Post
First of all the early rav4 is based off a old corolla platform... The same platform as the matrix and celica. So I am guessing most of the parts will work. Now the reason I am trying to get the E250 (I'm not saying that this cant be done without the 153, in fact if you already have a e153 or a auto trans you can do this with just getting the parts I have listed along with a transfer case)
Not true. you cannot use E15xf without the '96-'00 subframe that does not fit the T23. Switch occurs at '98 for corolla, '02 for caldina, so why did toyota drop the E15xf on ST246? why did fensport need a custom engine cradle? everything must be from '01-'05.

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Who knows maybe without the big monster of a transfer case the 154f is it might not need cutting... Also a noting where the transfer case goes there is a motor mount in the way so possibly wont have trouble cutting if needed....
That monster transfer case houses the viscous coupler or maybe high power robust applications. It must be fitted to the rear axle for 1zz 2zz clearance, plus block modification needed, but not enough to puncture it.

Automatic is more Lego while A2xx U2xx U1xx use same bellhouse. E359f is your best gamble. Don't know about E250f though you have two type of systems.
http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/gearbox.htm
1.) mechanical lock, introduced '86 for N/A
a. pneumatic actuator
b. hydraulic multi plate clutch
2.) viscous coupling, introduced '87 for F/I
c. revised coupler housing

E50f (1st gen) 3s-gte
E150f (2nd gen) 3s-gte
E154f (3rd gen) 3s-gte
E250f (4th gen) 3s-beams (2nd gen)
A540h(4th gen) 3s-beams (2nd gen)

E = Electronic control
F = Four wheel drive
H = AWD Transverse mount engine
L = Lock-up torque converter
D = Separates 3-speed 4-speed

https://youtube.com/watch?v=qY3ZE5yevOQ

Last edited by 2jz-style; 07-24-2017 at 01:53 AM.. Reason: update: videos pdf added
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:32 PM   #26
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At this point I'm about to do a mid engine swap

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Old 07-17-2017, 05:46 PM   #27
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Jake, congrats on documenting your finds! This was also covered in the *GTS Jason thread. But you better focus on the 'centre diff lock' to consider what you are doing.

The 1st gens matrix have rear viscous coupler to transmit power 'anti slip' mode. Not to mention auto makers define part-time/full-time in their own fashion. True part-time/full-time is something different.

http://forums.genvibe.com/files/impo...040.bmp.cf.jpg

If you could document how that works for 2nd gen matrix, rx300, sienna ,rav4 there is good reason we think the Russian celica uses this but nobody wanted that setup. It would be good for snow drifting only.


Not true. E15xf is full-time determined by 'centre lock' mode. E154f does not have the locking lever.

https://rav4gtt.files.wordpress.com/...nodifflock.jpg



Not true. you cannot use E15xf without the '96-'00 subframe that does not fit the T23. Switch occurs at '98 for corolla, caldina, so why did toyota drop the E15xf on ST245w? why did fensport need a custom engine cradle? everything must be from '01-'05.

Automatic is more Lego's while A2xx U2xx U1xx use same bellhouse. E359f is your best gamble. Don't know about E250f though.
Hey 2j,
Admire what you have done and yes I followed Jason thread... Well mostly just a lurker, but I thought I would give it a try. Thanks for the helpful correction on the rav4 chassis, I dont quite understand with some of what you mentioned. There is a kit to fit the 153 trans onto the chassis and the basis of my plans are based more on the rav4 rx, and sienna which I found all using the same transfer case on which I picked up. I will research and provide more info on its full time abilities. I do have plans to get a E359 but my truck is a little broken cant really get it back quite yet... thinking later this week. Also I learned periods are important I was trying to say the e359 was full time not the 153 the 154 I was aware was only part time.

Off to gather more info on the transfer case,
Jake.
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:56 PM   #28
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Hey 2j,
Admire what you have done and yes I followed Jason thread... Well mostly just a lurker, but I thought I would give it a try. Thanks for the helpful correction on the rav4 chassis, I dont quite understand with some of what you mentioned. There is a kit to fit the 153 trans onto the chassis and the basis of my plans are based more on the rav4 rx, and sienna which I found all using the same transfer case on which I picked up. I will research and provide more info on its full time abilities. I do have plans to get a E359 but my truck is a little broken cant really get it back quite yet... thinking later this week. Also I learned periods are important I was trying to say the e359 was full time not the 153 the 154 I was aware was only part time.

Off to gather more info on the transfer case,
Jake.
Also note the steering rack is right there where the propshaft comes out. Everything is pretty straight ahead on this conversion except for the transfer case setup. I have been to fensport and looked at their Celica on the lift(they were kind enough to put it on there for me). I tool several photos I will Tru and find and post. The rear end is easy. It's just the transfer case...

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Old 07-17-2017, 06:02 PM   #29
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Also note the steering rack is right there where the propshaft comes out. Everything is pretty straight ahead on this conversion except for the transfer case setup. I have been to fensport and looked at their Celica on the lift(they were kind enough to put it on there for me). I tool several photos I will Tru and find and post. The rear end is easy. It's just the transfer case...

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So this is something I am afraid of, but when looking under the rx and rav4(Note the rav4 is heavily modded) the neck of the transfer case is under the steering rack. They used some sort of spacer to prop it up a little. I had to drop the k frame/cradle to even be able to pull the transfer case. Still I am afraid it will be a problem. it just adds a little more to the problem.

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Old 07-17-2017, 08:39 PM   #30
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At this point I'm about to do a mid engine swap

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Old 07-17-2017, 08:41 PM   #31
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My third Audi build is nearing completion. Might go back to Toyota for the next one...

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Old 07-19-2017, 09:55 AM   #32
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Celica AWD Build thread

I was going to add more data, but you hit the quote button. I want to confirm this list but the link has died.

http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_...ear_Ratios.htm

E=transaxle case (Bolt pttern)
3=chassis/diff (Generation)
5=no. gears (Gears)
9=ratios (Application)

Quote:
Originally Posted by name"Wikipedia"
Exclusive to the Scion tC: note the slightly shorter 5th gear, and much shorter final drive compared to the Camry E351. Please, do not confuse the E35x for the E153. The E35x has a completely different transaxle case.
I think this transmission may fit a T23 but a member bolted an e15xf into 2az-fe with the exception of one bolt that did not line up.. 3s-fe bolt with 2az-fe was possible and e15xf transaxle case has same flywheel/clutch, but needs custom cradle, it is not similar to e35xf chassis.
[url="https://www.scionlife.com/forums/regional-pacific-northwest-1625/awd-street-tc-lol-no-real-229358"]here

Last edited by 2jz-style; 12-23-2017 at 09:26 PM.. Reason: typo: added wiki
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Old 07-19-2017, 10:09 AM   #33
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I was going to add more data, but you hit the


2j any information is helpful especially if it's repeated because it shows we actually figured out something so we can keep this moving forward, I'm basically just the test monkey

Thanks,
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:40 AM   #34
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Jake, I checked into that Rx300 case, and it has the right potential, but before I explain this, even though nothing is attached, that case relies on ABS vehicle sensors and ECU's. Not sure about the manual Rav4.

It seems toyota had *revised a compact transfer case when the switch to aluminum engines occurred. The viscous/mech. lock are on the opposite side (front LSD housing) rather the passenger axle shaft.

It's V6 powered, full-time viscous/mech. centre lock with rear torsen lsd *option. Now with that bit of info there is still a question of 50/50 torque split. I couldn't get any info on this for two years, but I already knew the answer...
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:06 AM   #35
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Jake, I checked into that Rx300 case, and it has the right potential, but before I explain this, even though nothing is attached, that case relies on ABS vehicle sensors and ECU's. Not sure about the manual Rav4.

It seems toyota had *revised a compact transfer case when the switch to aluminum engines occurred. The viscous/mech. lock are on the opposite side (front LSD housing) rather the passenger axle shaft.

It's V6 powered, full-time viscous/mech. centre lock with rear torsen lsd *option. Now with that bit of info there is still a question of 50/50 torque split. I couldn't get any info on this for two years, but I already knew the answer...


2j, I'm glad you could find that info I couldnt really find anything useful on it, maybe you could help explain how it relies on the abs sensors?

From a outside view of looking at both there is no wires that connect to it and they look almost exactly similar.

I was lucky enough to get the last option (spinning one side the other goes in same rotation while driving the rear) the same for the rear diff.

Last thing is when looking at the e359f compared to the regular (non Awd) they have completely different final drives. Maybe you can help me find some more info on that because as o see it now basically the transfer case is acting more like a diff. Yet I can't find any info on the transfer case gearing.

Thanks
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:13 AM   #36
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Just double checking the 359 comes off of a 2az engine so it might be the best option rather than the older 250 that comes off a 3s fe


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Old 07-24-2017, 10:59 PM   #37
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Now the transfer case doesn't have any wires going to it it is basically just a differential that bolts up to your transmission. the one I chose was a 50/50 lsd off a rav4. but there are different types. Still they are just a front differential you could bolt it up and the ecu wouldnt know or even want to know.
It's 4wd specific ECU gathers information, via VSS, ABS, RPM,TPS and could trigger the ABS to apply brake to control 'spin/slip' (wheels of least resistance) Open diff will route power to wheels with traction because no brake is applied (wheels of least resistance)

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2j, I'm glad you could find that info I couldnt really find anything useful on it, maybe you could help explain how it relies on the abs sensors?

From a outside view of looking at both there is no wires that connect to it and they look almost exactly similar.

I was lucky enough to get the last option (spinning one side the other goes in same rotation while driving the rear) the same for the rear diff.

Last thing is when looking at the e359f compared to the regular (non Awd) they have completely different final drives. Maybe you can help me find some more info on that because as o see it now basically the transfer case is acting more like a diff. Yet I can't find any info on the transfer case gearing.
Note: this is only my interpretation of the matrix and it sounds like you picked both equipped with LSD, that's pretty cool man!

Open diffs will turn opposite ways and route to least resistant. LSD turns same ways and route to most resistant. Needs replacing at the time of your clutch.

Different gear ratios or gear rings? The 2wd is non-LSD so the rings/axles are generally non-interchangeable. If you want to slap on your transfer case it's a very big job.

That reminds me, do the hubs & calipers seem robust on a matrix AWD?
GTS/XRS used 275mm rotors but transfer case with Rav4 axles is more like 295mm?
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Old 07-24-2017, 11:20 PM   #38
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It's 4wd specific ECU gathers information, via VSS, ABS, RPM,TPS and could trigger the ABS to apply brake to control 'spin/slip' (wheels of least resistance) Open diff will route power to wheels with traction because no brake is applied (wheels of least resistance)



Note: this is only my interpretation of the matrix and it sounds like you picked both equipped with LSD, that's pretty cool man!

Open diffs will turn opposite ways and route to least resistant. LSD turns same ways and route to most resistant. Needs replacing at the time of your clutch.

Different gear ratios or gear rings? The 2wd is non-LSD so the rings/axles are generally non-interchangeable. If you want to slap on your transfer case it's a very big job.

That reminds me, do the hubs & calipers seem robust on a matrix AWD?
GTS/XRS used 275mm rotors but transfer case with Rav4 axles is more like 295mm?


As I'm familiar with it now the 00 Gts doesn't have traction control... And some times in the northwest here is quite annoying when It slips. That could be why I overlooked what you were explaining. I was planning on doing the 295 swap I found here
https://www.newcelica.org/forums/show...php?t=343568#/

Reason for this is my rear rotors squeel every morning and it's driving me insane. So why not do the upgrade while I'm at it.

I'm not sure about the calipers though. It's a stock engine not making that much power it might need a upgrad but the rotor might help.
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:53 AM   #39
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Just double checking the 359 comes off of a 2az engine so it might be the best option rather than the older 250 that comes off a 3s fe
It has the corolla gear shifter facing the wrong side. I figure you know how to modify that by routing a new exhaust because the shifter cables will interfere with the manifold.

The master cylinder is there as well, so check your engine bay. I would check out E351with 3.9 final '08-'14 scion xb because of the tiny engine bay.
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/att...psb1f4a130.jpg
I know for sure the echo/yaris has the correct side shifter as you can tell by the size of them. The gearing will always be a pain if you're automatic or you risk cutting a hole for the celica shaft .

Last edited by 2jz-style; 08-07-2017 at 09:37 PM.. Reason: 2az-fe added
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Old 07-26-2017, 11:06 AM   #40
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It has the corolla gear shifter facing the wrong side. I figure you know how to modify that by routing a new exhaust because the shifter cables will interfere with the manifold.

The master cylinder is there as well, so check your engine bay. I would check out E351with 3.9 final '08-'14 scion xb because of the tiny engine bay.

I know for sure the echo/yaris has the correct side shifter as you can tell by the size of them. The gearing will always be a pain if you're automatic or you risk cutting a hole for the celica shaft .
Not running auto. Just wondering if you know or not does the 351 have the option available to bolt on the transfer case. The E250 off the 90's rav4 looks like it has everything on the correct side I would just need to find a way to bolt it on. They are verily small close to the same size as the c60
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:05 PM   #41
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No visual on *E351e yet, E359f bell house/final drive combo or you modify the exhaust for bigger engine bay setup. The black rubber dust cap is on the rear side. celica/lotus is front side. https://www.newcelica.org/forums/showpost.php?p=6130058
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:46 PM   #42
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No visual on *E351e yet, E359f bell house/final drive combo or you modify the exhaust for bigger engine bay setup. The black rubber dust cap is on the rear side. celica/lotus is front side. https://www.newcelica.org/forums/showpost.php?p=6130058


The 250 is on the correct side so that might be the better route. Comes off the 3sfe so a adapter plate may be needed not 100% sure yet will get actual pictures of the trans at the junkyard soon.
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Old 07-29-2017, 01:06 AM   #43
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Last thing is when looking at the e359f compared to the regular (non Awd) they have completely different final drives. Maybe you can help me find some more info on that because as o see it now basically the transfer case is acting more like a diff. Yet I can't find any info on the transfer case gearing.
Okay, slightly better explanation. The ring gear should fit LSD but the front diff intricate cannot mesh with the *center diff. Torsen type will turn opposite way and the blown diff's won't turn anything. Viscous type was used in the 153 so it gets complicated from different LSD types.

http://strav3vz.blogspot.ca/2013/05/...nsaxles-2.html

Last edited by 2jz-style; 04-28-2018 at 10:03 PM.. Reason: added link
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Old 08-27-2017, 11:27 PM   #44
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Its been about a month since the last post so.....

Its time for a update:

I'm currently looking more into how the rav4 4.1 and 4.2 trannys work. They are a full time awd with a front lsd / awd lsd?
Not exactly, Looking more into it and reading up on some info of the differentials in the transmissions. They have a front and center diff built into one.(Been tons of previous posts and info about this)
But... if you are like me you wonder how it is supposed to work.
This video explains how it would work. Looks like they reused what worked in the first rav4 in the new sienna and highlanders
https://youtu.be/pN6-gCxI60g?t=222

Still dont get it? Yeah it was still a little tough for me to understand how that works and it not being mumbo jumbo.

So I am going to try and explain how I see it working. I posted this picture before, but lets take a closer look



Time to break it down. There is two axles like I noted before one is hollowed out so the drive shaft can fit through it connecting to you guessed it the front diff. The bigger one that is hollowed out is what connects to the center diff.

Did I loose you?
Thats okay because it can be confusing I will try to explain it further. Thanks to chatting with 2jz and his last post to this blog they compare a e53 diff to a e250 off a rav


Doesnt really help right?

Lets take a look at how all the parts connect



Ahhh now we are getting somewhere.... I think.
So from what I understand is the big shaft connects the center to the transfer case while the small shaft keeps the front lsd a separate trans axle.

BUT WAIT THEIRS MORE!!!
This is totally different than how the 154f works. The 154 works through a center lock.

The matrix works like the new rav4 and others through a "on demand system" which basically means that when the front wheels spin power goes to the transfercase/rear and that is just pointless if I want AWD i want the real thing not this wimpy something bad happened this will fix it thing.


So what are the next steps?
Well I came across this here It shows how to turn a c52 into a six speed using a 153 lsd diff. Yeah yeah yeah what does that mean? it means that the possibility of getting a e250f diff or a 359 one of the lsd full time awd diffs should work with the standard c series manual trans. That's where I am and were we are on this project I am trying to find a way to make it cost and close to stock I can. Could of it been done already for a higher cost... yeah.
But I feel like I should try to make this as close to stock so it can be easily replicated.

Thats where we stand,
So for next update,
Jake
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:37 PM   #45
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:09 PM   #46
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i dont know much about transmissions, ive read this post over like 10x now. So, time to ask some noob questions

1.) About how much will this cost? Assuming we find a suitable transfer case / transmission/ diff whatever.

2.) How does the rear end mount up?

3.) Will we have a manual AWD transmission or is it going to be AUTO Only?

4.) Is this really worth it? I plan on just running intake / exhaust / stage 2 cams / tune (180WHP?) is it enough to run this AWD Setup and increase acceleration? or will it be a sluggish system.
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:43 PM   #47
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i dont know much about transmissions, ive read this post over like 10x now. So, time to ask some noob questions

1.) About how much will this cost? Assuming we find a suitable transfer case / transmission/ diff whatever.

2.) How does the rear end mount up?

3.) Will we have a manual AWD transmission or is it going to be AUTO Only?

4.) Is this really worth it? I plan on just running intake / exhaust / stage 2 cams / tune (180WHP?) is it enough to run this AWD Setup and increase acceleration? or will it be a sluggish system.

Hey its no problem, I'll answer your questions so dont be afraid to ask.

1.) I have everything except a compatable transmission and i'm in at a hefty price of $250 I've been able to keep my cost down by looking at craigslist for parts cars along with junk yard cars.

2.) I haven't taken the time to go out and mount in the rear diff, but it is possible I think to do without any cutting... Just will need a new exhaust / smaller muffler.

3.) I am using a 6 speed c60 and I plan to make it work stick only... since most autos can just do a tranny swap and not worry about the transfer case

4.) "Is it worth it?" for someone who goes to the track and has a built 2zz yeah probably worth it. For someone like me in the pnw who uses it as a daily and worry about slipping in snow and rain... yeah. Also why would anyone want a gt4 if they could just have a normal celica with a built 3s gte. and 180whp sounds like you have a gt. I'm starting with the 2zz which is about 180 already around there.

The matrix awd is using a 1zz and it is running awd. Give it that its a sequential awd... Only sends power to the rear when it is in high rev, but when you think about it the car is very light.

tl;dr So if you plan to build a engine it might not be sluggish, if not its a possibility but there is a rwd 2zz on the forum here. He seems to be having fun with it


Going back to your first question I wanted to add on to it transfer case I think should be used is 96-05 rav4 transfer cases or 06+ sienna, highlander as I previously explained that they work on a full time awd at the cost of 50% power at the rear wheels... which I might know of a work around, but we would get back into the problem of it being sluggish.

Transmission... Currently I think the c series tranny will work with a different diff. Auto transmission those lucky guys just need to buy a awd transmission

rear diff rav4 96-03 since it is lsd on the 4wd models. I will see what I can do to further explain the diff on another post....


Hope this helps, let me know.

Jake
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Old 08-31-2017, 07:34 AM   #48
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Hey its no problem, I'll answer your questions so dont be afraid to ask.

1.) I have everything except a compatable transmission and i'm in at a hefty price of $250 I've been able to keep my cost down by looking at craigslist for parts cars along with junk yard cars.

2.) I haven't taken the time to go out and mount in the rear diff, but it is possible I think to do without any cutting... Just will need a new exhaust / smaller muffler.

3.) I am using a 6 speed c60 and I plan to make it work stick only... since most autos can just do a tranny swap and not worry about the transfer case

4.) "Is it worth it?" for someone who goes to the track and has a built 2zz yeah probably worth it. For someone like me in the pnw who uses it as a daily and worry about slipping in snow and rain... yeah. Also why would anyone want a gt4 if they could just have a normal celica with a built 3s gte. and 180whp sounds like you have a gt. I'm starting with the 2zz which is about 180 already around there.

The matrix awd is using a 1zz and it is running awd. Give it that its a sequential awd... Only sends power to the rear when it is in high rev, but when you think about it the car is very light.

tl;dr So if you plan to build a engine it might not be sluggish, if not its a possibility but there is a rwd 2zz on the forum here. He seems to be having fun with it


Going back to your first question I wanted to add on to it transfer case I think should be used is 96-05 rav4 transfer cases or 06+ sienna, highlander as I previously explained that they work on a full time awd at the cost of 50% power at the rear wheels... which I might know of a work around, but we would get back into the problem of it being sluggish.

Transmission... Currently I think the c series tranny will work with a different diff. Auto transmission those lucky guys just need to buy a awd transmission

rear diff rav4 96-03 since it is lsd on the 4wd models. I will see what I can do to further explain the diff on another post....


Hope this helps, let me know.

Jake
According to dynos i've seen, i thought all GT-S's made 160WHP and 180 at the crank.. I've yet to dyno my car so im not sure.

I dont know much about AWD Systems, but how do you make the C60 6-speed work with AWD? It doesn't have a thing to connect a drive shaft?

Last question

How long do you think it will take you before you have the system ready? In all honesty, i'm really interested in this, especially for how cheap you've managed to do it so far. I started colleged about 1 week ago, but i think i could save back some money to do this. I got the Celica because it was a unique car (Not many around here, im usually the only celica at any car meet) and it would be even more badass to make it AWD to show those Subbie guys
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:16 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by m70b1jr View Post
According to dynos i've seen, i thought all GT-S's made 160WHP and 180 at the crank.. I've yet to dyno my car so im not sure.



I dont know much about AWD Systems, but how do you make the C60 6-speed work with AWD? It doesn't have a thing to connect a drive shaft?



Last question



How long do you think it will take you before you have the system ready? In all honesty, i'm really interested in this, especially for how cheap you've managed to do it so far. I started colleged about 1 week ago, but i think i could save back some money to do this. I got the Celica because it was a unique car (Not many around here, im usually the only celica at any car meet) and it would be even more badass to make it AWD to show those Subbie guys


You are correct in that it doesnít have any way to connect it, but after looking at the manual rav4 transmission (e250) I noticed that the face plate (or transfer case connection) it pushed out a little. Itís just a little pushed out. So my thought currently is just make a small adapter plate since the transfer case doesnít have any liquid flowing between the trans and the transfer case which seems possible. May require some small tack welds, but the rear transmission mount also bolts to the transfer case.

I previously posted about how a matrix owner converted his car to awd, he ran a small piece of flat stock to bolt it up, you can read that more here
forums.genvibe.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=41623

Itís very creative and it helps up out a little actually... as far as I know currently


The goal is to make it affordable for most people to do it, also to make it as stock as possible. Seeing as I think a lot of you are interested I might be posting guides along the way to guide this build.

To make the c60 awd we need a different diff inside the transmission, this was a way to keep the cost way down going further and making it a little easier to source a suitable transmission. If I decided to go with the 153 I would still need to change the diff and get the adapter plate... which is pretty expensive for some reason. I could of gotten the rav4.1 trans (e250) but would need to re route the shifter cables and make a new adapter plate. Plus added on to that the 250 is broken easily if not cared for which is what I found I couldnít get one with a working 4/5 gear.

Like I said I will post further on what a diff is and what one will work, but currently I am thinking that I just tear apart the e253 for the diff... like a previous post a guy did to fit into his e53. The up side to this is the rav4.1 or 96-01 is lsd so the front would be lsd.

Not sure on a timeframe, trying to get the parts so I have a working puzzle and I can piece it all together. Would be impressive, but it wouldnít be fast... next project in mind for me after this was giving the car a little more boost power so the awd isnít as wimpy

I hope that somewhat answered your questions, and I will be posting on my diff findings soon just gotta see whatís out there.

Thanks,
Jake
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:27 AM   #50
m70b1jr
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Originally Posted by JakesFate View Post
You are correct in that it doesnít have any way to connect it, but after looking at the manual rav4 transmission (e250) I noticed that the face plate (or transfer case connection) it pushed out a little. Itís just a little pushed out. So my thought currently is just make a small adapter plate since the transfer case doesnít have any liquid flowing between the trans and the transfer case which seems possible. May require some small tack welds, but the rear transmission mount also bolts to the transfer case.

I previously posted about how a matrix owner converted his car to awd, he ran a small piece of flat stock to bolt it up, you can read that more here
forums.genvibe.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=41623

Itís very creative and it helps up out a little actually... as far as I know currently


The goal is to make it affordable for most people to do it, also to make it as stock as possible. Seeing as I think a lot of you are interested I might be posting guides along the way to guide this build.

To make the c60 awd we need a different diff inside the transmission, this was a way to keep the cost way down going further and making it a little easier to source a suitable transmission. If I decided to go with the 153 I would still need to change the diff and get the adapter plate... which is pretty expensive for some reason. I could of gotten the rav4.1 trans (e250) but would need to re route the shifter cables and make a new adapter plate. Plus added on to that the 250 is broken easily if not cared for which is what I found I couldnít get one with a working 4/5 gear.

Like I said I will post further on what a diff is and what one will work, but currently I am thinking that I just tear apart the e253 for the diff... like a previous post a guy did to fit into his e53. The up side to this is the rav4.1 or 96-01 is lsd so the front would be lsd.

Not sure on a timeframe, trying to get the parts so I have a working puzzle and I can piece it all together. Would be impressive, but it wouldnít be fast... next project in mind for me after this was giving the car a little more boost power so the awd isnít as wimpy

I hope that somewhat answered your questions, and I will be posting on my diff findings soon just gotta see whatís out there.

Thanks,
Jake
Assuming we can convert the car to AWD, will it help our acceleration? I currently drive a '01 GT-S Manual with upgraded valve train (Thats it for mods)
Will i see a big difference in the 0 to 60? I'm alllll about acceleration, im not a top speed kinda guy.
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