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Old 07-10-2012, 08:54 AM   #51
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Ok guys, keep the name calling and referrences to inteligence out of this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ajh1717 View Post
That changes:

intake manifold
head
piston
exhuast

That is a lot to change, especially when you are going from N/A to turbo.
The intake manifold, piston and exhaust are a given but that's fairly normal stuff to do when you go full on turbo. Changes in the head were negligent though. The N/A heads match and sometimes exceed the TT heads in flow.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:58 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSBoek View Post
Ok guys, keep the name calling and referrences to inteligence out of this.
Interesting
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:02 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajh1717 View Post
A 3 liter v6 that is a low 13 second car made in 91 not on the supercar realm? Okay.
The initial NSX was more of a high 13 car. Mostly anyway. That being said, the 2JZ has 'roots' from German engineering but not necessarily BMW.

Either way, this should be fun to watch unfold if anything.
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:35 AM   #54
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And you are still the wall, now grasping at straws and looking for any possible connection to try and sound correct. The head is a yamaha design, similar to most other G designation motors. The turbochargers were designed with hitachi and the exhaust manifold is a pos that was designed for spacial constraints (I am guessing you meant exhaust manifold and not exhaust)

Again, final means final. Toyota did the majority of the work with the 1j and they did final adjustments.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ajh1717 View Post
That changes:

intake manifold
head
piston
exhuast

That is a lot to change, especially when you are going from N/A to turbo.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:25 AM   #55
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Ok guys, keep the name calling and referrences to inteligence out of this.
Thanks.
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:37 PM   #56
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I sure hope so, I would be first in line for this, but not if it was powered by a bmw engine.
A new supra would be awesome, but the 6series is a prettty large coupe & if their planning on using its chassis then what ever resulted would be to. I'm personaly hopping they use some thing like the 3 series as the base for this hypothetical new supra. And they actualy make somthing worthy of the supras legacy & not just a hi powered boat.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:39 PM   #57
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That is true, the mk4 was about as heavy as the Supra should ever be, there is no reason for it to be as heavy as the GTR, unless it were to be awd and have a ton of technology added to it, but I'd rather see it go the other way and more towards a sports car then a technological wonder.
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:30 PM   #58
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That is true, the mk4 was about as heavy as the Supra should ever be, there is no reason for it to be as heavy as the GTR, unless it were to be awd and have a ton of technology added to it, but I'd rather see it go the other way and more towards a sports car then a technological wonder.
The LFA was there awnser to the GTR, so hopefully this will be there's to the Z just like the suppra was always meant to be
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:37 PM   #59
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Totally agreed, although the LFA is unfortunately made entirely of Unobtanium, I could at least buy a GTR if I wanted a retardedly high car payment. I have a hard time comparing 90k to 375k and calling it apples to apples.
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:42 PM   #60
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Hey Andy ... where are you at? Did you digress finally?

By the way, I can school you on the IS3 if you want also.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:09 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRulzAt140 Mph View Post
Intellesting
inorite
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:38 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSBoek View Post
The intake manifold, piston and exhaust are a given but that's fairly normal stuff to do when you go full on turbo.
I know, but just because the guy didn't design the block, you can't discredit designing the turbo parts as not important or not significant.

The fact that he had a big part in making the turbo aspect come to life, is still extremely significant. Without the turbos, no one would have appeal to the GTE.

Quote:
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Hey Andy ... where are you at? Did you digress finally?
I'm sorry, did you want me sitting around on this thread refreshing the page at the edge of my seat waiting to reply to you?
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:29 PM   #63
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That's what you were doing earlier Andy so yes ... I was just wondering if you did what most NYers do when they get owned and run away, that's all.

As for the Germans, you are still giving them far too much credit in a grasping of straws attempt to prove yourself correct. The Supra became very very popular for 2 reasons, with about 2000 dollars you could increase the cars horsepower by almost 200hp and the first Fast and Furious. You could argue that turbo design played a small part in that, but even if they had just grafted the 1j's turbochargers onto the car or even a larger version of the 7m's ct26, it still was destined to be a very popular car. Did you hear me when I told you Hitachi and Toyota developed the turbos and Kyocera the silicone nitride sequential parts? That firm was outsourced to make tweaks to the production car so that it was close enough to the homologated car to fit within the rules, that's about it.

As a matter of fact, all of the parts that were designed by Toyota are what has made the car legendary, (I don't see a list of what the firm did so I'll placate you and reference the turbos that Toyota and Hitachi designed) the turbos are the first thing the owners pull off when they are trying to make a moderate to high power figure.

All of your crutches have been taken away from you, you need to admit defeat and move on. Class is still in session if you want to learn anything about your IS300.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ajh1717 View Post
I know, but just because the guy didn't design the block, you can't discredit designing the turbo parts as not important or not significant.

The fact that he had a big part in making the turbo aspect come to life, is still extremely significant. Without the turbos, no one would have appeal to the GTE.

I'm sorry, did you want me sitting around on this thread refreshing the page at the edge of my seat waiting to reply to you?
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Old 07-11-2012, 03:27 AM   #64
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Do you guys think we'll see a twin turbo straight six make it to the next Supra? It would totally be the right thing to do historically.
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:03 AM   #65
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Quote:
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Do you guys think we'll see a twin turbo straight six make it to the next Supra? It would totally be the right thing to do historically.
Mabey the Supra's new engine will be based off BMW's I6tt, ...( just like the last one supposedly was. )
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:43 AM   #66
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Quote:
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the turbos are the first thing the owners pull off when they are trying to make a moderate to high power figure
So, since the stock turbos aren't enough for people who want to make high power we should play it off like it is not big deal? Okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gte View Post
That firm was outsourced to make tweaks to the production car so that it was close enough to the homologated car to fit within the rules, that's about it.
So a Japanese company started, then outsourced to German because they realized it would be better to reach the final product? Okay, I guess Germans really did not have a crucial part in this and it was all Toyota with no help.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:29 AM   #67
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There part was mediocre, not crucial at all. It was "crucial" for Toyota and its aspirations to have a homologated car, but not crucial in the sense you are implying it.

That firm didn't do squat for the enthusiasts, they did something for a sanctioned racing body for Toyota and that's it.

If you knew anything about the mk3 or 7m you'd know that all the ground work for the 2j, all of the important design and changes to produce a better motor than the 7m were all done by Toyota, it is blatantly obvious.

If you get a list of exactly what that firm did, I'll be happy to reevaluate, but as of this point there is no evidence that they did much of anything outside of the homologation of the already built and designed factory car, for the racing body.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ajh1717 View Post
So, since the stock turbos aren't enough for people who want to make high power we should play it off like it is not big deal? Okay.



So a Japanese company started, then outsourced to German because they realized it would be better to reach the final product? Okay, I guess Germans really did not have a crucial part in this and it was all Toyota with no help.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:32 AM   #68
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There is no alternative to an I6, screw compactness and screw environmental nonsense.

The car needs to be a torquey 3.8 or 4l inline six with a stroke and rod ratio that favor torque. It needs 2 larger sequential turbos, say 500 bhp with lots of room to grow with a few thousand in modifications.

This time they need to make the cylinder walls much thicker to give enthusiasts room to grow, vvti and a beastly 6 speed manual again.


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Do you guys think we'll see a twin turbo straight six make it to the next Supra? It would totally be the right thing to do historically.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:42 AM   #69
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Tell me about it, I guess I'm biased. My first car had the 5M engine. Currently building a 5M-GE/6M-GE hybrid for it.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:51 AM   #70
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You still have your first car?

That is awesome!
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:47 PM   #71
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Yep. Need to update the thread a little bit more.

https://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=285661
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:10 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gte View Post
There is no alternative to an I6, screw compactness and screw environmental nonsense.

The car needs to be a torquey 3.8 or 4l inline six with a stroke and rod ratio that favor torque. It needs 2 larger sequential turbos, say 500 bhp with lots of room to grow with a few thousand in modifications.

This time they need to make the cylinder walls much thicker to give enthusiasts room to grow, vvti and a beastly 6 speed manual again.
Well that would certainly scare a GTR. But something like that would most likely end up being in the exotic price range. The FRS is an awesome car & will prolly be a rememberable cult classic. But what they realy need & would most honor the supra name is a bigger verision of that (FRX maybe ) with a modern i6tt that can out run a SS Camero but is only around the 40-50ish range.
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:10 PM   #73
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500bhp is 80 less than the gtr, and I think "my car" can be built for 45k. The engine size should add almost nothing to the cost, same with the turbo size, r and d is going to cost no matter what. I think that is your "bigger version"?

Since the v6 camaro has 300+ hp, the turbocharged I6 Supra better have 500hp.

I liked the FRS until they deviated from the prototype v2, now I hate it.



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Well that would certainly scare a GTR. But something like that would most likely end up being in the exotic price range. The FRS is an awesome car & will prolly be a rememberable cult classic. But what they realy need & would most honor the supra name is a bigger verision of that (FRX maybe ) with a modern i6tt that can out run a SS Camero but is only around the 40-50ish range.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:03 PM   #74
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Update!

BMW and Toyota Ink Deal to Partner on Fuel Cell, Sports Car, Lightweight Technology
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Corporation Deepen Collaboration by Signing Binding Agreements

Fuel Cell System, Sports Vehicle, Lightweight Technology and Lithium-air Battery Collaboration to Commence


BMW Group and Toyota Motor Corporation (TMC) are pursuing their successful strategic long-term cooperation in the field of sustainable mobility today by signing binding agreements aimed at long-term collaboration between the two companies for the joint development of a fuel cell system, joint development of architecture and components for a sports vehicle, and joint research and development of lightweight technologies. These agreements follow a memorandum of understanding signed in June 2012.

Furthermore, BMW Group and TMC also today signed a binding agreement to commence collaborative research on lithium-air batteries, a post-lithium-battery solution. This agreement marks the second phase of collaborative research into next-generation lithium-ion battery cells that commenced in March 2012.

The main points of the agreements are:

1. Fuel cell system

- The companies are convinced that fuel cell technology is one of the solutions necessary to achieve zero emissions. BMW Group and TMC are to share their technologies and to jointly develop a fundamental fuel-cell vehicle system, including not only a fuel cell stack and system, but also a hydrogen tank, motor and battery, aiming for completion in 2020.

- The companies are to collaborate in jointly developing codes and standards for the hydrogen infrastructure which are necessary for the popularization of fuel cell vehicles.

2. Sports vehicle
- The companies agreed to set-up a feasibility study to define a joint platform concept for a mid-size sports vehicle that is to be completed by the end of 2013. The two companies aim to combine each other’s technology and knowledge at a high level to maximise customer satisfaction. Both companies are to share the vision to further collaborate in the field of sports vehicle development.

3. Lightweight technology

The companies are to jointly develop lightweight technologies for vehicle bodies using cutting-edge materials such as reinforced composites, with an eye to utilize these technologies in cooperation on the joint development of a sports-vehicle platform as well as other BMW and TMC vehicles.

4. Post-lithium-battery technology
The companies are to begin joint research with a goal to develop a lithium-air battery with energy density greatly exceeding that of current lithium-ion batteries.

Norbert Reithofer, Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW AG said: “TMC and the BMW Group share the same strategic vision of future sustainable mobility. In light of the technological changes ahead, the entire automotive industry faces tremendous challenges, which we also regard as an opportunity. This collaboration is an important building block in keeping both companies on a successful course in the future.”

Akio Toyoda, President of TMC said: “It is just over a year since we signed our collaborative MoU, and with each day as our relationship strengthens, we feel acutely that we are making steadfast progress. Now, we are entering the phase that promises the fruit. While placing importance on what we learn from the joint development, we will work hard together in reaching our common goal of making ever-better cars.”

BMW Group and TMC first agreed to form a medium-to-long-term collaborative relationship for developing next-generation environment-friendly vehicles and technologies in December 2011, at which time the two companies also signed a contract under which BMW Group is to supply highly efficient diesel engines to Toyota Motor Europe. BMW Group and TMC - as long-term strategic partners - have since continued their joint efforts to realize sustainable mobility for the future.
I smell Supra...
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:14 PM   #75
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I smell Supra...
Oh please

Is Toyota the company that will sell it?
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:03 AM   #76
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Is Toyota the company that will sell it?
Both companies will sell their own version of the car, just like Toyota and Subaru are doing right now with the 86 and BRZ. The Supra comment is just wishful thinking on my part.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:08 AM   #77
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I can't wait!
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:23 PM   #78
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It'll be a heavy pig.
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It's like sex with your cute but chubby cousin that one time when you had both had too much wine at Christmas dinner. You know it's wrong, you're not stopping, and you really regret it the next morning. That is poutine, Canada does this 24x7x365. Canada are a bunch of sick bi-lingual metric cousin f*ckers.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:25 PM   #79
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Both companies will sell their own version of the car, just like Toyota and Subaru are doing right now with the 86 and BRZ.
Ew.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:00 AM   #80
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Update!

BMW-Toyota Sports Car Taking Shape
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Expect Hybrid-Assisted Power, Different Sheetmetal, Tokyo Show Concept Debut

A source close to Toyota tells us that by the time of the official announcement in January, the two companies had already conducted feasibility studies and development was well underway.

"When BMW announced in December 2011 that it would supply a new clean diesel engine to Toyota, the jointly developed sports car project had already begun," says our insider. The person who green-lighted this project? You guessed it: Toyoda, the same exec responsible for green-lighting the Lexus LFA and Toyota 86/Scion FR-S. The man loves his sports cars.

We also hear the engineer charged with spearheading this new coupe is none other than 86/FR-S chief engineer Tetsuya Tada. According to our sources, Tada has already visited BMW multiple times in the past year or so. He said in a March interview on Toyota's official U.K. blog that he was planning to head to Munich after the 2013 Geneva Motor Show to sit down with BMW execs over some beer and bratwurst.

"I am hoping for a synergy effect with BMW that will result in a product that none of us could have imagined; something more than anyone expects. I would like that to be something like a sports car," Tada said in the interview. "I would even go so far as to say that for the collaboration to work we have to bring a product which exceeds all these expectations."

We don't expect the BMW-Toyota sports car to use the 2.0-liter flat-four found in the 86/FR-S (and their Subaru BRZ sibling). A BMW I-4 engine is more likely (though a Toyota-sourced I-4 is possible) and would necessitate significant modifications to the 86/FR-S platform expected to underpin the car -- a task that would fall to BMW. The platform would also likely have to be stretched to bring it into the midsize category. There's an outside chance a BMW platform is being used, but given Tada's extensive involvement in the project, it's a long shot.

Naturally aspirated, supercharged, and turbocharged versions are reportedly being considered, but atmospheric induction is the most likely because it probably will be paired with electric motors. Our source tells us Toyota has been working on an all-wheel-drive 86 equipped with front in-wheel motors and that this setup could make it into the new BMW-Toyota sports car. Additionally, we hear the BMW and Toyota products will have significantly different sheetmetal, unlike the 86/FR-S/BRZ. A speculative artist rendering of what the Toyota version could look like is depicted here. A concept (or concepts) is expected to be shown later this year at the 2013 Tokyo Motor Show. The 86 took two years to go from concept to production, but with the basic platform already finished, the time to market for this BMW-Toyota sports car could be shorter.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:12 PM   #81
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Update!

BMW and Toyota settle on joint supercar
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It's been nearly two years since Toyota and BMW announced an agreement to co-develop sports cars using state-of-the-art hybrid technologies, and now a source close to the two companies says the pair has decided on its first joint-venture.

Sorry folks, but it won't be anything like a souped-up Toyota 86. No siree.

In all their wisdom, executives citing the high cost of developing a high-performance sports car with lightweight materials have opted for a $300,000-plus Lexus LFA-style package, but with a hybrid twist.

This new two-door flagship will pick up where the LFA left off, or should we say, where the LFA never went. The LFA spent far too long on the development table (nearly 10 years) with its naturally aspirated V10 engine, while many other car-makers were fitting hybrid and electric powertrains in their high-performance models.

Interestingly, Toyota was the first to commercialise hybrids with the original Prius in 1997, but it took many more years for it to apply that technology to V8s. Ironically, therefore, Toyota is now playing catch-up in the hybrid hyper-car segment.

Supercar makers are more conscious of CO2 emissions than ever before while at the same time delivering more power and performance, and powertrain electrification is the key to realising these opposing goals in the same vehicle.

Take for example the electrically assisted Ferrari La Ferrari and McLaren P1, for example, or the purely battery-powered Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive – the most powerful AMG ever made.

Porsche has its Panamera plug-in hybrid too, as well as the million-dollar 918 Spyder super-hybrid that recently set a new production car lap record at the Nurburgring of 6:57.

We weren't surprised when, during a recent trip to Toyota's proving ground near Mt Fuji, we saw a BMW i8 plug-in hybrid super-coupe sitting in the carpark. Our source tells us that in addition to emissions trials, Toyota is conducting durability testing of the i8's carbon-fibre frame in relation to the pair's jointly developed sports car.

So the obvious question is what will each company bring to the R&D table in this challenging collaboration? It goes without saying that Toyota will supply its hybrid technology, having already experimented with high-performance hybrid powertrains for the V8-powered Lexus LS 600h.

The Japanese car-maker can also offer more than a decade of carbon-fibre body and chassis lessons learned from the LFA, which also benefits from V10 engine expertise.

Toyota spent billions developing the LFA and its V10, just 500 examples of which were produced, so Toyota wants to leverage that technology to recoup some of those costs.

BMW, on the other hand, is an engine-producing powerhouse that may no longer have a V10 in its range, but the M5's 412kW 4.4-litre turbo V8 develops the same amount of power as the LFA's 4.8-litre V10 while consuming far less fuel and emitting less CO2.

So it doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduct that a BMW 4.4-litre turbo V8 married to a Toyota hybrid system may be the best powertrain solution for a joint-venture sportster.

Less clear are the origins of the co-developed supercar's chassis. Toyota has carbon-fibre expertise from its LFA journey, while BMW has perfected carbon-fibre reinforced plastic production on a mass scale, as evidenced by the launch of the i3.

There are other questions too, such as how the powertrain will transfer its performance to the road, and how good it will look doing it.

While BMW has a reputation for building "the ultimate driving machine" and its own brand of unique design, Toyota – through Lexus – must up its game in the sheetmetal department and perhaps borrow some on-road mastery from BMW in order to deliver a supercar that handles like a $300,000 car should.
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:13 AM   #82
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Toyota – through Lexus – must up its game in the sheetmetal department and perhaps borrow some on-road mastery from BMW in order to deliver a supercar that handles like a $300,000 car should.
Nope. Judging by the LFA reviews Toyota did deliver a proper handling $300,000 car already. I don't know what the article is griping about.
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:24 AM   #83
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Nope. Judging by the LFA reviews Toyota did deliver a proper handling $300,000 car already. I don't know what the article is griping about.
x2... It now holds the fastest production vehicle time on the Nurburgring.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:33 AM   #84
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That honor has since gone to the Porsche 918 though, which is probably why a Hyper LFA-like car is being developped with BMW.

I don't count the Radical SR8 (current "record holder") as a production car because you can't just get in and start it with a key. You need a laptop and 45 minutes to fire it up.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:56 AM   #85
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Didn't know that... Damn.

And that's funny about the Radical.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:37 PM   #86
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It's like sex with your cute but chubby cousin that one time when you had both had too much wine at Christmas dinner. You know it's wrong, you're not stopping, and you really regret it the next morning. That is poutine, Canada does this 24x7x365. Canada are a bunch of sick bi-lingual metric cousin f*ckers.
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Old 12-30-2013, 06:46 PM   #87
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BMW and Toyota agree on joint sportscar

Update!

BMW, Toyota agree on joint sportscar platform
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Carmakers BMW (BMWG.DE) and Toyota (7203.T) have agreed to develop a joint platform for sportscars, BMW's development chief Herbert Diess told a German newspaper.

"We have agreed on a joint architecture for a sports car. What is important is that there will be two different vehicles that are authentic to the two brands," Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung on Monday quoted Diess as saying.

BMW and Toyota had in January signed an agreement to cooperate on various areas including lithium-air batteries and lightweight technology.

They also said at the time they would study the potential for a joint platform for a mid-sized sports vehicle in a feasibility study to be completed by the end of 2013.

Frankfurter Allgemeine said that Diess declined to provide details on the models that would result from the cooperation.
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:32 AM   #88
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Here's an old article not posted in here:

BMW, Toyota to co-develop sports car
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With similarities to the successful 86/BRZ project, German and Japanese giants announce a partnership to build a new sports car that could revive the Celica or Supra.


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Brad text it to me? :shy:
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:53 AM   #89
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Update!

BMW, Toyota closer to next-gen Z4 and Toyota version
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Cars to use carbon-fiber tub from BMW's i series of vehicles.

Toyota has been in the headlines since the Detroit Auto Show thanks to its gorgeously styled FT-1 Concept.

While this coupe, which is being hailed as the next-generation Supra, will remain in concept form only, there is one other Toyota that will definitely make it onto the road. This as yet unnamed mid-sized Toyota sports car may not stimulate the optic nerves as much as the FT-1, but one source close to Toyota tells us that it will be co-developed with BMW, be a sister car to the next-generation Z4, “and drive superbly.” That’s right, Toyota will co-develop the next Z4 with the German carmaker.

In 2013, both companies conducted a feasibility study into the mid-sized coupe’s potential and discussed topics including the type of materials to use and even what powertrain to employ. The exterior design has not been finalised yet, but our source filled us in on one design direction taken by Toyota.

The coupe you see in this image is an artist’s impression of what Toyota’s version of the Z4 could look like. And while it’s edgy and not that pretty, we can expect some strategic touch-ups by the time the car is due for launch in 2017.

The new coupe will employ the front-engine, rear-drive layout of the current Z4. But this car will be amazingly light.

“This car will use the same lightweight body construction as the i3 and i8,” a source says. That means lots of carbon fiber and aluminium in a car which will incorporate basic body and chassis design by BMW.

“And even with that type of construction, you can expect a sticker price around the same as that of the current Z4. No more than $70,000,” adds our source. This sounds incredible given the historic cost of carbon fiber. But as our insider explains, BMW has teamed with Germany’s SGL to develop innovative carbon fiber technology that is seeing the cost of such materials fall significantly to less than one-fifth of its current value.

With the design and construction of the body apparently being done by BMW, what is Toyota bringing to the party? One guess: its next generation plug-in hybrid technology. An advanced interpretation of the current Toyota Hybrid System II, the new version will incorporate a capacitor. (Like a battery, a capacitor can store electrical energy. But a capacitor is a short-term energy storage solution.)

We have already seen one form of Toyota’s next-generation capacitor-driven plug-in hybrid system inside the THS-R units fitted to the Le Mans racing car as well as the Yaris Hybrid R Concept revealed at last year’s Frankfurt motor show. In terms of power storage and delivery, our source suggested we think of the KERS units being used in today’s F1 championship. “Its power storage and acceleration response is very similar to that in the F1 KERS technology.”

“We cannot expect to see a Toyota engine fitted here,” says our source. “The chances are not zero, but very low. We can however, expect to see Toyota’s new hybrid system used.

In fact, BMW’s engine supply has already begun in earnest. From January 2014 at its plant in Turkey, Toyota has started production of the new Verso, a small Euro-spec MPV powered by a BMW diesel engine. Toyota is calling the 1.6-liter four-cylinder diesel “the D-4D,” in line with their internal naming system, but in fact, this 112hp engine was supplied by the German carmaker.

“For the new Z4 and its Toyota cousin, the potential for an engine no bigger than a 2.0 liter is very high,” says our source. “Add the new Toyota hybrid unit to that 2.0 liter and you have a potent powertrain with superb mileage and clean emissions.”

So while the two cars, the next-gen Z4 and the as yet unnamed Toyota variant will employ identical powertrains and be plug-in hybrids (with capacitors), the body designs will be quite different. And the introduction of these cars will continue to herald a new era of markedly lighter construction that become a standard.
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:33 PM   #90
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I get less excited every time I hear more news about this...
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:03 AM   #91
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Update!

BMW, Toyota Joint Sports Car to Debut in 2017
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While few details on the project have been revealed so far, some info has surfaced that should be considered rumors for the time being. But according to an inside source with BMW speaking to German publication AutoZeitung, the project won’t be a supercar, but rather “an innovative and emotional athlete for larger production.” In other words, a sports car that will appeal to the masses rather than the select and prestigious few. It will be a lightweight model sporting plenty of aluminum and carbon fiber and will use a front-engine, rear-wheel drive layout.

The vehicle will have a very low stance and profile, and currently the team is favoring a supercharged power-plant from BMW, a variation of its 3.0-liter inline-six engine churning around 400 hp. The collaboration hopes to produce a sports car that can accelerate to 62 mph in around four seconds while having a top speed of 155 mph.

Naturally, Toyota’s variant will come onto the market cheaper at under 30,000 Euros while BMW’s version will command a premium of at least 5,000 to 10,000 Euros more. But expect plenty more luxury and technology in the BMW variant while the Toyota one might appeal more to hardcore sports car enthusiasts not looking for all the bells and whistles.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:29 AM   #92
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Old 06-10-2014, 10:36 AM   #93
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Update!

Toyota and BMW project Silk Road 2 will sire new Supra and Z7
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-...types=og.likes
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Toyota and BMW's collaboration will extend into a new range of mid-engined sports cars to challenge the benchmark Porsche 911, CAR can reveal.

Developed under the codename Silk Road 2, the proposed BMW Z7 and Lexus ZC/ZR are cutting-edge sports cars which will cost around €90,000, or £73,000. Slap bang in Porsche Carrera territory, then.

Project Silk Road 2: Toyota and BMW's new sports car twins to rival the 911

Don't confuse this with the first BMW-Toyota sports car project already confirmed by Munich. The German-Japanese alliance is co-developing a pair of front-engined BMW Z4/Toyota GT 86 replacements, due around 2017.

SR2 denotes a second, much more grown-up kind of sports car. Although the programme is still in its infancy, CAR understands the sports cars are already under development and will break with tradition in more ways than one.

What we know about SR2: the Toyota/BMW sports cars

This will be the first mid-engined mainstream two-seater for both brands - as well as the first plug-in hybrid sports car with a six-cylinder engine.

According to an insider, it was BMW who pushed for this car ever since it was clear that the proposed 630bhp carbonfibre M8 would be grounded to keep the road clear for the politically more correct i8.

A 3.0-litre twin-turbo six

Due to see the light in late 2018 or early 2019, SR2 will be developed in Munich for both brands. And providing the firepower are two different calibrations of what is essentially the same twin-turbo in-line 3.0-litre straight six.

Originally intended to revive the Toyota Supra nameplate, the lightweight newcomer is now widely referred to as the Lexus LFA's little brother, aka ZC/ZR. Not to be confused with MG's tarted-up Rover 25 hot hatch...

A quick look at the spec sheet will banish any such Longbridge associations: common components are believed to include a twin-turbo engine, a super-swift seven-speed, dual-clutch transmission, a supplementary 150bhp e-motor, performance batteries packaged between the seats, composite brakes, an adjustable double-wishbone suspension, active aerodynamics and an electric power steering system.

How fast will the BMW-Toyota sports cars be?

The aggregate power output would be in the 400 to 500bhp bracket, which will be needed to overcome what our engineering sources predict will be a kerbweight under 1650 kilos. So expect the Silk Road twins to be outrageously fast.

Could the 911's hegemony as the benchmark £70k sports car be under threat? If anyone can make a dent on the Porsche's dominance, we'd back BMW and Toyota to make a fist of it...
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Old 03-24-2015, 11:24 AM   #94
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Sports car partnership to spawn new Toyota Supra
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...w-toyota-supra
Quote:
Toyota and BMW’s joint sports car project is set to spawn two different-sized four-wheel-drive hybrids that won’t be direct rivals for each other

BMW and Toyota are planning to spin two different sizes of vehicle off their ongoing joint sports car project, allowing engineers from the two companies to deliver the next generation of Z4 and the return of the Supra name respectively.

The original deal to work together on a mid-size sports car was announced in 2012. Few details have been released since then, but BMW did confirm late last year that the project had entered the “concept phase” and that a technical feasibility study had been “successfully completed”.

Senior sources have now confirmed further details, including where the car Toyota produces will sit in the firm’s product line-up.

Speaking at the Geneva show, Toyota Europe vice-president and product planning chief Karl Schlicht said: “The intention with the new car is for it to sit above the GT 6. It doesn’t replace that model; the GT 86 goes on with its own mission.”

That positioning tallies with the return of one of Toyota’s classic sports car names. While the Celica badge has traditionally been used for models of the GT86’s size, the Supra name would give the firm a mainstream sports car flagship. It also allows the new car to be considerably more expensive than the GT86, reflecting what is likely to be a complex powertrain and high-tech construction.

As Autocar revealed last year, the two models are likely to feature a hybrid four-wheel drive set-up incorporating a BMW petrol engine and electric motors whose energy is stored in supercapacitors.

BMW is understood to be bringing its expertise in construction to the project, with the new sports car likely to follow the existing i3 and i8, and the forthcoming 7 Series, by making use of carbonfibre in its architecture.

Toyota’s most recent sports car concept, the FT-1, could be seen as a preview for the Japanese brand’s offering. Its 4.6m overall length is broadly the same as that of the last Supra, which was withdrawn from sale in 2002.

A model of this size would also be significantly larger than the existing Z4, but Ian Robertson, BMW’s board member with responsibility for sales and marketing, has stated that the two manufacturers have come up with a proposal that can satisfy different areas of the sports car market.

“The one thing we’re clear on now is that a platform for both companies can work,” he said. “The cars in themselves don’t actually need to be positioned the same. The platform can spawn two positionings.

“The concept works, the platform can deliver and now we have two proud sets of engineers - one group German, one group Japanese - who are each fighting and arguing for the car they want.”

When asked if the platform was scalable, to allow for the sort of difference in wheelbase that there could be between a Supra and a Z4, Robertson said: “Gone are the days when one platform was one platform. Most of our platforms are scalable these days.”

Robertson also said that no decision on production had been taken, but he suggested that a single factory would be used for both cars. “One part of the next phase will be deciding who builds the car - which company and in which country. We need to find out where the markets are and whether the biggest markets are the same for both companies.” It’s thought that a plant in the United States or Europe is more likely to be used than a facility in Japan.

Toyota’s luxury brand, Lexus, does not currently have access to the joint sports car program, but senior company officials have refused to rule out the idea in the longer term. “Toyota is next door,” said Lexus’s European boss, Alain Uyttenhoven. “We are one company and our head is Akio Toyoda, and we could do it. Right now, we are not going to have a common platform between BMW and Lexus. Purely speaking, though, we have access to everything which is Toyota.”
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