Scosche TA-03 Wiring Kit Noise Mod - Page 2 - NewCelica.org Forum
  
Install Guides Parts Catalog Gallery Tech Info

Go Back   NewCelica.org Forum > Celica Discussion > Audio, Electrical, & Security

Audio, Electrical, & Security Install & Protect Your System Here.

Support NCO
Google
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-13-2005, 11:49 PM   #51
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
Imagehost Changed - No more "Hosted By:" pic-ads...

Update 01/13/05:

I got tired of Imagestation & Tripod leaving commercial pic-ad breadcrumbs behind trying to coerce non-members to join, so I switched imagehosts to ImageShack(TM).

Let me know if there are any problems viewing pics, just PM me instead of posting here (the thread is already long enuff).

~ thanks.



Update 01/14/05:

Added 1.8 volt calculations for newer Clarion HU's:

Click Here: For a table of Termination Resistor Values and Final Test Results
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi

Last edited by PacificBlue; 01-14-2005 at 10:19 AM..
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-14-2005, 11:08 PM   #52
xiano77
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)
Pacific,

I moded the BH8113 harness with 220 ohm resistors with great success. This harness has 2k ohm resistors so I had to take that into consideration. The 2k resistors were verified with a voltmeter.

Your average calculation of 333 was my goal. Using the 220 was about 13 ohms lower than your average. I have alpine CDA9827 with 4v outs. There were no signs of alternator or electrical noise.

If I were to have purchased the Scosche TA03 I would have tried the 330 ohm resistors which would have put me 3 ohms lower than your average.

Thanks for the help
xiano77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2005, 04:21 PM   #53
S|Lv3rBu||et
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New Boston, NH.
Posts: 9,606
iTrader: (7)
Send a message via AIM to S|Lv3rBu||et
I have created an install guide based on this post in hopes that it will be better accessable to all those looking for help. Also, so it wown't be sitting at the top of the audio forum forever.

The install guide should appear in the audio install guide section soon.
__________________
S|Lv3rBu||et is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
 
Old 03-20-2005, 06:12 AM   #54
House_DJs
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 37
iTrader: (0)
Scosche TA-03

Does anyone have a Scosche TA-03 for sale
House_DJs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 10:49 AM   #55
colinbruck86
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Streator IL
Posts: 122
iTrader: (0)
Send a message via AIM to colinbruck86
hey pacific, can you tell me what kind of resistors I'm going to need for the Alpine CDA-9851, im geting it pretty soon and am hoping you can tell me what kind ill need so the install can go smoothly for me. Thanx
__________________
2k Red GT-S 6 speed - TRD Exhaust, BB Modded Ebay CIA, Tein S-tech springs, TWM Short Shifter w/ brass base and cable bushings, Blue Bat's V9 redout kit, SM1 sidemarker smokes, and Reverse light smokeouts, S2000 antenna, TRD Duracon shift knob, 2003 Lower Front grille, debadged top front grille, Alpine Head Unit w/ Euro Single DIN, LED Brake/Parking/Reverse/license plate/dome lights.
colinbruck86 is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 11:13 AM   #56
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
Your Alpine CDA-9851 has 2volt PreOuts, so according to the chart below you'd use 633 ohm resistors. Since 633's aren't standard off-the-shelf values, you can buy 620 or 680 ohm resistors.

Click Here: For a table of Termination Resistor Values and Final Test Results
{don't touch the scrollbar - let the page load}
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 02:33 PM   #57
colinbruck86
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Streator IL
Posts: 122
iTrader: (0)
Send a message via AIM to colinbruck86
thanx pacific, ill let ya know how it works out with those.....
__________________
2k Red GT-S 6 speed - TRD Exhaust, BB Modded Ebay CIA, Tein S-tech springs, TWM Short Shifter w/ brass base and cable bushings, Blue Bat's V9 redout kit, SM1 sidemarker smokes, and Reverse light smokeouts, S2000 antenna, TRD Duracon shift knob, 2003 Lower Front grille, debadged top front grille, Alpine Head Unit w/ Euro Single DIN, LED Brake/Parking/Reverse/license plate/dome lights.
colinbruck86 is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2005, 10:13 AM   #58
QuickSilverZ
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 42
iTrader: (0)
Ok I have a couple questions. I am installing a sony cdx-f7710 in my girls gt-s and I can not find the preamp output voltage in the specs. However on the box I see a small square that says "3pre4v". I am assuming this means it has 3 preamps at 4v. Would this be a correct assumption? So would that mean I need to get a ta-03 and I would need a 271ohm resister (or the closest to that obviously) to make it work in her car? I am just changing the headunit and running the factory everything else. I just want to make sure I am getting this right. Thanks
QuickSilverZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2005, 11:47 AM   #59
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
Your Sony CDX-F7710 has 2 + 1 sets of preamp outs:

4-Volt Front & Rear Preamp Outputs with Selectable High-Pass Filters
4-Volt Subwoofer Preamp Output with Selectable Low-Pass Filter


So yes 271 ohms: or an off-the-shelf value would be 270 ohms.

(and of course, since the FactoryAmp doesn't support a discrete sub, your Sub PreOut doesn't get used unless you add your own)
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2005, 11:54 AM   #60
QuickSilverZ
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 42
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificBlue
Your Sony CDX-F7710 has 2 + 1 sets of preamp outs:

4-Volt Front & Rear Preamp Outputs with Selectable High-Pass Filters
4-Volt Subwoofer Preamp Output with Selectable Low-Pass Filter


So yes 271 ohms: or an off-the-shelf value would be 270 ohms.

(and of course, since the FactoryAmp doesn't support a discrete sub, your Sub PreOut doesn't get used unless you add your own)
Thanks alot. I know she is dying to get it in the car so I will go pick them up this week. Thanks alot.
QuickSilverZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2005, 10:40 AM   #61
colinbruck86
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Streator IL
Posts: 122
iTrader: (0)
Send a message via AIM to colinbruck86
The Resistor mod worked very well. The install went very smoothly, thanks to a good soldering iron. I almost get no feedback at all, except for a tiny alternator whine is noticable when the music is paused, but who the hell pauses it anyway. Also, the Euro single DIN looks fantastic, and I suggest it to everyone.
__________________
2k Red GT-S 6 speed - TRD Exhaust, BB Modded Ebay CIA, Tein S-tech springs, TWM Short Shifter w/ brass base and cable bushings, Blue Bat's V9 redout kit, SM1 sidemarker smokes, and Reverse light smokeouts, S2000 antenna, TRD Duracon shift knob, 2003 Lower Front grille, debadged top front grille, Alpine Head Unit w/ Euro Single DIN, LED Brake/Parking/Reverse/license plate/dome lights.
colinbruck86 is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2005, 03:10 PM   #62
QuickSilverZ
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 42
iTrader: (0)
couple more questions.... where does the digital ground go? also in the back of the factory head unit it looks like there are two antenna inputs I am assuming i just use the bigger one for my radio correct? the other just doesnt get connected? and the connector on my new headunit has a chassis ground wire as well. do I connect that to the chassis ground wire on the ta-03? or just connect both those to the chassis?
QuickSilverZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2005, 07:05 PM   #63
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
"couple more questions.... where does the digital ground go?"
(...or come from?) It came from the StockRadio and went nowhere. Huh? See further below: *Toyota R4 Connector)

In modern mixed-circuit design, design engineers try to keep audio, video, computer, & power circuits isolated as much as possible. Each has its own ground path. Capacitors, baluns, inductors, and sometimes active electronics are used to filter & drain the different kinds of noise as much as possible. It isn't until just before these signals leave "the box" (in this case your HU) that the multiple grounds may get tied back together again.

Still, some signals that are especially prone to getting invaded by noise when outside the box (like audio) have their grounds intentionally kept separate from chassis ground even when leaving the box. Such is the way with most modern HU's: Your HU's RCA grounds come direct from the Output Preamps. Manufacturers expect you to connect them directly to the RCA's of your aftermarket PowerAmp using RCA extension cables.

Nothing should tap into these lines' grounds on their way to the Amp. They should be dressed in the trough on one side of the car by themselves, while power, control wires, remote changer wires, etc. should be carried in the opposite trough.

Since Microprocessor Noise is probably the worst offender second only to Alternator Whine, your HU's microprocessor ground gets tied to its Case (chassis) Ground just before leaving the box (aka: the BLK wire). Manufacturers expect you to connect this wire to one of the car's "real" ground points (Toyota lists Ground Points in all its Service Manuals).

*In the Toyota R4 connector (which the TA-03 plugs into) there are actually 3-different grounds:

PIN-10 SGD3 (aka: DIGITAL GND, Radio-to-PowerAmp Wire Harness Shield, & is only connected to Radio side)
PIN-16 SGND (aka: ANALOG GND, RCA Signal Ground)
PIN-20 GND (aka: CHASSIS GND, goes to a real Ground Point)

PIN-10 & PIN-20 get tied together in the Scosche TA-03 harness because your HU only has one BLK GND wire.** The stock radio had separate grounds within the radio for CHASSIS GND vrs. WIRE HARNESS SHIELD GND.

**The Toyota WIRING HARNESS has a pair of ECU lines carrying Tx/Rx DATA to the StockRadio which is "NOISE" to the audio circuits, so Toyota/Fujitsu provided a separate SHIELD in the WIRING HARNESS and a pin to dump it to called "SGD3" aka: PIN-10 DATA GND. YOUR new HU doesn't have Tx/Rx DATA lines which connect to the Toyota Harness, so PIN-10 has nowhere to dump to - but because the WIRING HARNESS still carries Tx/Rx DATA from the ECU, it's important to get this SHIELD connected to ground and the best place to do this at the HU is by tying PIN-10 to PIN-20. And -because- it has some residual ECU noise in it, you -don't- want to connect this to PIN-16 RCA Signal Ground.


To make sure you ground everything right, go back a page in the thread and do the checklist, if you leave the scrollbar alone this link will take you right to the post...
Click Here: Troubleshooting Grounds


"...also in the back of the factory head unit it looks like there are two antenna inputs I am assuming i just use the bigger one for my radio correct? the other just doesnt get connected?"
I think what you're calling the "larger one" is the HU's FM antenna, and its smaller sister is the AM antenna.

"...and the connector on my new headunit has a chassis ground wire as well. do I connect that to the chassis ground wire on the ta-03? or just connect both those to the chassis?"
Same place as "Troubleshooting Grounds" above.
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi

Last edited by PacificBlue; 01-06-2013 at 04:20 PM.. Reason: Add explanation for connecting DIGITAL GND & CHASSIS GND together
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2005, 08:26 PM   #64
QuickSilverZ
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 42
iTrader: (0)
thanks again. I went ahead and tied the chassis ground and digital ground together and attached them to the chassis and have no problems. Also I did the resister mod and have 0 feedback noise. only thing I hear is when you turn the radio off it thumps a little but that seems to be common. Other than that she is very happy and I am glad I'm finished with it. now I can get back to working on my car. Thanks alot for your help.
QuickSilverZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2005, 08:27 PM   #65
QuickSilverZ
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 42
iTrader: (0)
oh and whoever mods this section should definately sticky this post. It is extremely helpful.
QuickSilverZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 06:36 AM   #66
jonwithoutanh
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1
iTrader: (0)
I was really glad to find this thread. The noise problems I've been having (subtle alternator whine and some relay pop from the brakes; too loud at low volumes) are described here pretty accurately. I am using the TA-03 with an Alpine CDA-9851.

The only wrinke is, I'm not driving a Celica. I have a 2000 Avalon with the "premium" factory sound system. Does anyone happen to know if that amp has the same problem? I am somewhat familiar with electronics but I am no electrical engineer (I am a software guy), so I don't really know how to determine the answer on my own. I am hesitant to attempt this mod without knowing for sure whether it will fix my problem.

Thanks in advance for your replies!
jonwithoutanh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2006, 05:53 PM   #67
TRD S'Charger
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 86
iTrader: (0)
can't you use the ta-03 without modding it if you are going to bypass the amp and just use the headunits speaker wire?

i mean wouldn't that save from cutting into the factory wiring of the headunit.
TRD S'Charger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2006, 07:57 AM   #68
2way
Electromagnetic Wave :-h
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: "America's Hometown"
Posts: 15,190
iTrader: (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRD S'Charger
can't you use the ta-03 without modding it if you are going to bypass the amp and just use the headunits speaker wire?
In which case you would use a different harness altogether, not the TA-03.
2way is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2006, 06:09 AM   #69
TRD S'Charger
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 86
iTrader: (0)
um, which one then, according to crutchfield their aren't any?
TRD S'Charger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2006, 08:03 AM   #70
2way
Electromagnetic Wave :-h
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: "America's Hometown"
Posts: 15,190
iTrader: (2)
You have an '01 GT... unless you have the optional 8 spkr system.. you don't have an amp & would use the Scosche TA-02 or equiv. If you have the 8 spkr system or a GT-S... & wanted to bypass the factory amp - you could use that same harness for power, dimmer, & power antenna... but the spkr outs wouldn't use the harness but would be spliced directly to the speaker connections which you cut away from the external amp to bypass it or you would run separate wiring right to the speakers.

I, also, stand corrected... if you had the 8 spkr system you could use the TA-03... but you wouldn't be using the pre-amp outs... you'd be doing the same as you would if you used the TA-02. But, why pay the additional price for the TA-03 if your bypassing the factory amp?

See also: https://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=181073

Last edited by 2way; 02-09-2006 at 08:09 AM..
2way is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2006, 05:09 PM   #71
TRD S'Charger
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 86
iTrader: (0)
i get it now, yeah i ordered my car with the 8 speaker system. i went to crutchfield and selected 6 speaker system and i get the wiring harness. thanks for your help.
TRD S'Charger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2006, 09:53 PM   #72
R K e 1 C A
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 6,971
iTrader: (140)
Send a message via AIM to R K e 1 C A Send a message via Yahoo to R K e 1 C A
could someone let me know what resistor is needed

<---audio newbie


the Headunit is a Clarion ADX5655z


BTW...can this mod be completed w/out soldering?...i'm still in CA and all soldering tools are @ home


thanks
R K e 1 C A is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2006, 03:02 AM   #73
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
I think your HU is 1.8v out, so you'd wanna use as close to 731 ohms as possible to get 500mv out, up to 1K (1000 ohms) which you can find at almost any Radio Shack. This is from the mod chart higher above in the thread:

1.8v : 173 ohms = 150mv / 237 ohms = 200mv / 306 ohms = 250mv / 731 ohms = 500mv / 2.4k = 1volt

Can you do the TA-03 mod w/o soldering? I dunno, never crossed my mind cuz soldering seemed so much easier & more reliable to me. But you'll never know until you try.
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2006, 10:01 AM   #74
R K e 1 C A
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 6,971
iTrader: (140)
Send a message via AIM to R K e 1 C A Send a message via Yahoo to R K e 1 C A
Thanks…finally found a place that listed the preamp outputs


You’re right about the 1.8:

Specs:

2 sets of 1.8-volt preamp outputs
wireless remote
16 watts RMS/45 peak x 4 channels
Zero-Bit Detector Mute circuitry
CD frequency response 10-20,000 Hz
CD signal-to-noise ratio 100 dB
tape frequency response 30-20,000 Hz
tape signal-to-noise ratio 67 dB
FM sensitivity 11 dBf
1-year warranty


http://www.crutchfield.com/S-BgNgEGa...h=adx5655z#Tab


so then this is what I’m still looking for:

731 ohms = 500mv
R K e 1 C A is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2006, 12:41 PM   #75
tempist
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2
iTrader: (0)
Nightmare

Hi guys, I just got a Kenwood DPX-701 it has 5 volt RCA's and I tried Installing it with the Scosche TA-03, I so ran into the Nightmarish noise that seems to be common here. First I tryed to use the bluebox instead of my HU RCA's because I figured mybe it had something I needed but that didnt work. then I checked out this thread so I figured I would try the mod. I have no Idea what my output impeadance is but since I have 5 volt rca's I figured I would try 60 ohm. Radioshack failed me so I had to get some 68 ohm resisters but Im not sure if that makes a differance. I wired them in and found my noise to be gone but the volume was reduced by 60% or so. This I couldnt deal with, so knowing nothing about electronics I figured I could so the same thing with smaller resistors and I would be fine. I tryed some small 10 ohm resistors and had the same results as the 68 ohm resisters, no noise but low volume aswell. by this time somehow I managed to break the analog ground prong on the Scosche plug so I figured I would take the opurtunity to try something new. I bypassed the scosche plug for the analog ground by attaching my own 10 gauge ground wire to the RCA's, then I followed it down to the amp and connected the ground to the anolog ground wire right before the factory amp. My noise is now worse than ever, someone suggested that there is a ground loop, and if I cut a couple grounds and left only one I would be fine. I tryed unpluging the antenna and the analog ground but the noise just gets worse. someone else told me it could be AC coming through the circuit from the alternater and if I briged the positive and negitive lines from the alternator with a capacitor I could filter it. but I have no idea where in the circuit I would do this or what size capacitor I would need. any ideas?
Ive been without a HU for 2 weeks not trying to figure this out.
tempist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2006, 04:27 PM   #76
2way
Electromagnetic Wave :-h
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: "America's Hometown"
Posts: 15,190
iTrader: (2)
You wanted to go the other way w/the resistors... Higher resistance value... rather than lower.

The recommended value from PacificBlue for 5V outs is 211 ohms = 500mv ... if you need more level... 475 ohms = 1volt
__________________


__________________
'02 Celica GT-S/6 '96 Avalon XLS
'88 Camry DX Wagon '86 Camry DX Sedan '83 Corolla SR5 Liftback
'82 Ford LTD-S(351W HO) '79 Corolla SR5 Sport Coupe '76 Corolla Wagon

PCIA Certified Mobile Communications Technician
2way is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2006, 01:56 AM   #77
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)

tempist,

Your Kenwood DPX-701 has three sets of HV PreAmp Outs at 5-volts: The two sets on the back are Front L&R and Rear L&R, the third set is a dual RCA cable marked Sub L&R.

Use 211 ohm resistors (270 ohms is stock off-the-shelf and will give slightly more punch). In your case I don't recommend using 475 ohm resistors as this will produce 1-volt out which may drive the StockAmp into distortion (it only needs 1/2-volt or 500mv and tests by board members show that 1-volt is way too much).

The Analog Ground (aka: Signal Ground) in the Scosche connector is essential. If it's broken, try to fix it or buy another Scosche TA-03 - it'll be well worth it. But you -must- keep the Digital Ground & Analog Grounds separate. Once you have the right resistors & grounds, noise will be history and you'll have plenty of sound.

Next, get yourself some subs.

Good Luck,
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2006, 08:37 PM   #78
Syn
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 150
iTrader: (0)
Send a message via ICQ to Syn Send a message via MSN to Syn
vent had much luck with my mod, 2.2v preouts and I used 620 ohm (2% giveway) resistors, but I get weak sound, and nothing from the lows and little from the mids.... If I ground the resistor ends to the chassis instead, analog ground to the chassis I get all my sound back but with the typical deck/ecu/alternator noise...

I'm not sure where I've gone wrong, I've done the mod twice now, correctly. *bummed* I'm about ready to install a different amp altogether, but i really don't want to run new wiring :/
__________________
- andrew | 04GTS
Syn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2006, 10:27 PM   #79
bassplay13
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 35
iTrader: (0)
ground loop isolators work well on getting rid of noise if you put them inline with the rca cables. i hate the blue-box thing that scosche sends. its such a pos.
bassplay13 is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2006, 02:57 AM   #80
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
Syn,

edit:
I see you've posted you have a Pioneer Pioneer DEH-7600MP deck with:

RCA Preouts 3 pair (Front, Rear, Sub or Non-Fading)
Preout Voltage & Impedance 2V, 100 Ohm

Hopefully you haven't tapped anything into the factory harness, like to connect an iPod or Carputer or something.

The resistor values you picked should work. Connecting the ends of the 4 resistors to Analog Ground (aka: Signal Ground) should work fine and sounds like they are, 'tho the sound is too low.

Make certain you are -not using the BlueBox- lot's of people miss this in the thread. The Bluebox has transformers in it which act like radio antennas to pickup alternator & ECU noise. Stick it under your back wheel and drive over it.

Connect the Scosche TA-03's RCA's directly to your HU's RCA's after mod.

Until we double-check your hookups, if you like... you can connect a 5th resistor in series with the ends of the other 4. In otherwords, instead of connecting the ends of the 4 resistors to Analog Ground, connect them to yet another resistor, say 110-270 ohms, then connect the loose end of that resistor to analog Ground. This should bring the level back up until we can figure out what's different about your setup.

But if you're going thru the Bluebox, you'll still pickup noise, it would also explain why your signal is so low.
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi

Last edited by PacificBlue; 07-15-2006 at 03:16 AM..
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2006, 10:50 AM   #81
Syn
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 150
iTrader: (0)
Send a message via ICQ to Syn Send a message via MSN to Syn
Thanks for the response Pacific, to clarify a few things:

I am NOT using the Bluebox
The TA-03 is hooked up directly to my HU RCAs
The factory harness has NOT been tapped into by any 3rd party device, or wire.

The best way I can describe my sound output, is like listening to an old AM radio - very flat, bland, with no life. Its as if, as I've mentioned, there's no bass and very little mid-level sounds being produced. If I tap the analog ground with a seperate chassis ground, I get all of my sound back, but with the nasty noise.

Like I said, I've done the mod twice over now, both with the same result. I've triple checked everything, twice over. Is it possible my Analog Ground wire is faulty, somewhere along the Toyota wiring behind the dash?
__________________
- andrew | 04GTS
Syn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2006, 01:22 PM   #82
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
"Is it possible my Analog Ground wire is faulty, somewhere along the Toyota wiring behind the dash?"

I don't think so because the level drops when you connect the resistors to it, which is what it's suppsoed to do (and you're probably finding out that you have to crank your HU's volume controls to near-max to get anything out of the speaker right?). And when it's not connected to Signal Ground your levels go up (probably even way too much and your volume controls are just barely off the lowest setting).

What you're describing sounds exactly like what happens when the termination resistors are too low in value. You might want check the color code on the resistors. With CarbonFIlm or MetalFilm Resistors sometimes it can be confusing cuz they can have up to 6 color stripes. If you used 620-ohm 2% tolerance resistors, the color stripes should look like this:


BLUE, RED, BLACK, BLACK - RED + ANYCOLOR (optional)
...6......2.......0.....xNone....2% + TempCoef (optional)

This based on this system:

A: first significant figure
B: second significant figure
C: third significant figure
D: how many zeros to add after (Black: None, Brown: 0, Red: 00, Org: 000)
E: tolerance in %
F: temperature coefficient in PPM

Here's a link to a webpage which explains how to read 'em and even has a visual calculator so you can see what it will physically look like: http://www.tkb-4u.com/code/resist/resist.php
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi

Last edited by PacificBlue; 07-15-2006 at 01:28 PM..
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2006, 01:38 PM   #83
Syn
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 150
iTrader: (0)
Send a message via ICQ to Syn Send a message via MSN to Syn
I purchased a pre-packaged set of 4.

NTE electronics 1/4w 620ohm, 2% tolerance, packet model# QW162 (link to PDF as reference http://www.nteinc.com/resistor_web/pdf/quarter.pdf

These resistors are
BLUE, RED, BROWN, RED
...6.....2........1.......2%.... (the Brown 1 means adding one 0 to the end, thus 62+0= 620)
According to the resistor references I've looked up, this is correct. Your BLACK where my BROWN is, is a 0 multiplyer, therefor there is no 0. So, your colour code of BLUE, RED, BLACK would yield a 62 ohm, not a 620 ohm. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So I truely believe I have the correct resistors... Perhaps your colour coding is correct, but you misinterpreted the brown/black at the end...maybe I should be using 62 ohm, and not 620 ohm?
__________________
- andrew | 04GTS
Syn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2006, 03:12 PM   #84
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
edit: sorry for the multiple edits if you read this early, my bad.

Your NTE QW162's are the right ones, 620 ohms.

I know, as I said it can get confusing... I should have mentioned the 3rd Significant Figure band is optional:

6 band color code:
.1st...2nd....3rd.....Mult.....Tol.....TempCoeff
BLUE, RED, BLACK, BLACK - RED + ANYCOLOR (optional)
...6......2.......0....(xNone)..2% + TempCoef (optional)

4 band color code:
.1st...2nd....Mult......Tol
BLUE, RED, BROWN - RED
...6......2.....(x10)......2%

Both color code systems = 620 ohms 2% tolerance but one band is dropped so the colors are shifted.

By the way, if the Multiplier Band is SILVER or GOLD, it shifts the decimal point to the left. For example:

4 band color code:
.1st...2nd....Mult.....Tol
BLUE, RED, SILVER - RED
...6......2.....(x.1).....2% -> This is: 62 ohms x.1 = 6.2 ohms.

4 band color code:
.1st...2nd....Mult....Tol
BLUE, RED, GOLD - RED
...6......2....(x.01).....2% -> This is: 62 ohms x.01 = .62 ohms.

The tolerance (%) band is also usually a metallic color to distinguish it from the others and placed at the end of the band or 2nd from the end.

Anyway, your NTE QW162's are the right ones, so something else must be up. You might try adding the 5th resistor to see if it helps. I just don't have enough information to tell you exactly what value to use. If you've got an extra 620 handy, try temporarily hooking that up and see what happens. My guess is it will sound a lot louder and the noise will mostly be gone.

If you can post a pic of your TA-03 mod so we can see your connections, maybe we'll spot something.
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi

Last edited by PacificBlue; 07-15-2006 at 03:26 PM..
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2006, 05:39 PM   #85
Syn
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 150
iTrader: (0)
Send a message via ICQ to Syn Send a message via MSN to Syn
I put a 680 ohm in place after the 4 620's, same whine, ecu noise, etc.. but it is louder. I've been fiddling with other resistors too, can't seem to find something that works well.
__________________
- andrew | 04GTS
Syn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2006, 11:54 PM   #86
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
Just DL'd and read your DEH-P7600MP OP & INSTALL manuals. Your HU PreOuts are 2V 1000-ohm impedance not 100-ohm as spec'd on some websites. I see the Front L&R RCA jacks are in the back right next to an identical set of RCA's for SUB L&R Out (hopefully those didn't get swapped) and the Rear L&R are a pair of RCA cables hanging out the back.

I also see it has the ability to mute the system on command from a celfone, done by using the YEL/BLK wire - make sure this wire is capped, taped-off, not touching anything, and definitely not grounded. I see it's got AVL which you may wanna turn off during testing. It's got many EQ settings which if dialed-out might chicken-choke your sound. Other than that, it looks pretty normal.

(BTW, the 5th resistor should only be used for testing... you run the risk of "mixing" your 4-channels together back thru the 4-resistors & losing channel separation and stereo imaging if the ends of the 4 resistors don't get connected to Signal Ground. Also, don't connect the resistors to Chassis Ground, only Analog Ground).
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2006, 06:38 AM   #87
Syn
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 150
iTrader: (0)
Send a message via ICQ to Syn Send a message via MSN to Syn
Yes, that all correct on my deck. I've always had the mute wire capped, and I've got the SW output capped as well so there's no confusion there. I could awlays have a faulty harness i suppose.

I hooked up an external PPI amp to the system and totally disconnected the stock amp... I get the same noice, which suggests there's a bad ground somewhere, and that is never fun to problem solve... I don't remember hearing noise when i first hooked up last week for testing...
__________________
- andrew | 04GTS
Syn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2006, 08:28 AM   #88
Syn
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 150
iTrader: (0)
Send a message via ICQ to Syn Send a message via MSN to Syn
Alright, more testing *sigh*

So I pulled all the stuff from the stock amp, disconnected it all.

New PPI amp hooked up (very efficient, excellent little amp), bypassing the TA-03 RCAs completely, totally running speakers from the PPI amp, STILL getting the noise. So, this is not just a problem with the RCAs or resistors... there's a grounding issue somewhere, or there's some serious noise happening from a bad electornic device. I've checked my connections, it's good. Re wired the harness (it's starting to show, I might need to get another one, lol)

This happens with both stock and 3rd party amp:
Key at ACC: Clean, proper, no noise.
Key at ON: Noise, almost like a siren sound 'whee-whoo-whee-whoo)

This, therefore helps rule out the HU as the problem, since it would be noisy at the ACC position as well as ON. This also rules out the amps, for the same reason. There's a noise pick up with some other stock electrical device. I even upgraded my engine bay ground points with 4guage wires.

Interesting note: when key is at ON position, there's an electronic connector/sensor/whatever right underneath the intake manifold opening that's visibly heard. Not sure if this is normal or not, it could easily be since the 7th gen tends to be a noisy little car. Disconnecting this questionable device has NO impact however, the noise is still present.

I'd like to take it to a 'pro' bu tI'm not paying $80 / hr for some kid employees to trial-and-error all day.
__________________
- andrew | 04GTS
Syn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2006, 11:08 AM   #89
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
"I even upgraded my engine bay ground points with 4guage wires."

I'm curious about this. Depending on whether you "replaced" or "added" new ground wires & grounding points, make sure you don't have any loosely crimped wires at the connector terminals, or any loose screws bolting those terminals to the frame & engine. If you secured the terminals to any new grounding points on the engine or frame, the surfaces under the screws must be free of paint, rust, & dirt or they'll make poor grounds.

If the engine block's ground isn't electrically connected good enough to the frame's ground (& body), the noise from the engine ECU & alternator will come in over the 12-volt line from the alternator, thru the engine compartment, thru the fuse block, and into your HU & Stock (or other) PowerAmp like it normally does, but no longer have a decent ground in common to send the noise to.

I suppose you could try having someone poke a screwdriver between your battery's ground terminal and a bolt on the firewall while you listen inside to see if the noise level changes any. Also, corrosion between lead battery posts & terminals can cause noise in audio systems too. There are so many possibilities...
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2006, 12:39 PM   #90
Syn
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 150
iTrader: (0)
Send a message via ICQ to Syn Send a message via MSN to Syn
You're right, there are too many possibilities The 4guage wiring was crimped very well, and the ends were heat-shrink wrapped for stability. None of them are connected to the body's pain, instead they were designed to enhance/complement the existing thinner stock grounds.

I may not have time to fiddle with it further for a couple of weeks, I'm going on vacation... I'll just have to deal with the noise for a while! But if you have any more brainstorms let me know
__________________
- andrew | 04GTS
Syn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2006, 04:12 PM   #91
quail
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2
iTrader: (0)
Have a Panasonic CQ-C7103U with ta03 hooked up...lots of whine when car is running none when car is off...

from the table i know i need 1/4 watt? 620 ohm resistors.

where do i get these?
quail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2006, 04:22 PM   #92
quail
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2
iTrader: (0)
ignore that post i found it in the thread sorry
quail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2006, 03:21 PM   #93
Pinchy
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: CA, Diamond Bar
Posts: 784
iTrader: (14)
Send a message via AIM to Pinchy
Hi there PacificBlue,

I have a less simple HU I got and want to change out the GTS HU.

I got the Pioneer DEH2800MP model which only have one pair of preout RCA. and 50Watts X 4 speaker output.

I would like to keep the Factory AMP. How do I connect the TA-03 to the HU with only one pair of preout RAC ??
Pinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2006, 05:02 PM   #94
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
You can do it a couple of different ways...

1) Easiest: Connect your HU L&R OUT's to RCA Y-Cables and connect the Y's to StockAmp Left F&R and Right F&R inputs (in the Scosche TA-03 harness). You'll have sound on all speakers, but won't have any Front/Rear fading.

2) Next Easiest: Connect your HU L&R OUT's to a 2-IN 4-OUT FRONT/REAR FADER CONTROL. That's if you can find one. I found this one is in Australia.


https://secure4.vivid-design.com.au/...AT&SUBCATID=44

According to the specs your DEH2800MP has 2.2volt PreampOuts, so you'd mod the TA-03 harness using resistors from the table for 2.2 volts.
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2006, 11:47 PM   #95
26252
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 82
iTrader: (0)
Hi, I hate to jump into the fray here, but I'm having a bit of an issue as well. I recently got a JVC KD-AR870 (woo USB!)

It has [email protected] load (if I'm reading this right?) pre-outs. I get the alternator whine, a clicking when I have cruise on, etc... My problem is that I bought the HU from Crutchfield, which I have nothing but good things to say about, and they provided me with a wiring harness adapter (click) which doesn't quite seem to match the Scosche in some ways. I'm confused about how to go about modding this one. I'm actually considering grabbing another adaptor to muck around with so I don't end up killing this one.

In the chart, does the 5V row cover all 5V pre-outs, or does the impedance value matter?

Finally, I've blown the past two days mucking with this thing, and I'm kinda low on time starting tomorrow (year end rush... woo hoo.), would anyone be willing to mod up an adapter for me if I tossed in $10-15+parts for your time?

I guess I'm gonna have to put up with this until after new years either way, but thanks for reading and/or any help
26252 is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2006, 09:23 AM   #96
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
The harness Crutchfield gave you looks a lot like the Scosche TA-03 (except for the RCA colors) but I can only speak for the original TA-03 harness. (It should be noted the Scosche TA-03 has been replaced by the TA-03B and the price went up since I started this thread long ago {$33.95 as of 12/06}. Again, the Scosche includes the BlueBox LLC (Line Level Converter) which should -not- be used in this mod.)

One way to tell if the harness is the same is by using a DMM (Digital Multi-Meter) to measure the resistance in ohms between the Center Pin of any of the RCA's and one of the pins in the 20-pin connector. If it reads approx 1.9Kohms +/- 10% or so, then I'd say it's pretty much the same as the TA-03, and the Table of Termination Resistor Values for the mod should work just fine.

Click Here: For a table of Termination Resistor Values and Final Test Results

In any case, most off-the-shelf wiring harnesses for the Celica will need to be modified. As a reminder, the whole purpose of this mod thread was to accomplish two things:

1) To drop your HU's high-voltage PreOut's down to approx 500mv (.5v) to drive the StockAmp to full output without distortion.
2) To drain the electrical noise picked up by the audio lines to ground before they reach the StockAmp.

"Among the potential sources of noise in the Celica are its multiple ECU's, cabin light dimmer, power windows, power sunroof, power doorlocks, front & rear windshield wipers, HID's, ignition system, alternator, and any aftermarket gear like neons, inverters, guages, etc."


It looks like the JVC KD-AR870 has 5-volt PreampOuts for Front & Rear, and 2-volt PreampOuts for Sub's. (and of course the wiring harness only applies to the StockAmp's Front & Rear inputs - your Sub Out's would go directly to an optional external subAmp and set of Sub's). You pick 5-volts from the chart and use the resistor which produces 500mv out.

Any volunteers in the Toronto area, or within mailing distance of Toronto who can do the mod for N-Bomb for some $pare bucks?
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2006, 10:33 AM   #97
Pinchy
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: CA, Diamond Bar
Posts: 784
iTrader: (14)
Send a message via AIM to Pinchy
Thanks for the help PB...

One more question, if I used the method 1) Y-cable, hows the sound quality on this setup?? I rarely change the fading F&R, but how will this change the High~Mid~Low characteristics ??
Pinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2006, 01:40 PM   #98
PacificBlue
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ...where sunsets are in Technicolor
Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)
Each HV LineOut of your HU is feeding 2v, 4v, 5v, 8v (etc, depending upon HU) at anywhere from 1k-50k impedance into two similarly high-impedance inputs (the modified Scosche TA-03 harness) before being terminated on the isolated-end of the mod's L-pad network.

Being a passive short harness, there's virtually no additional inductance or capacitance presented to your HU's signal as is passes thru the harness. In other words: the signal quality should be practically identical to the original.

Good Luck.
__________________
PacificBlue

What is VVTL-i? password: sashimi

Last edited by PacificBlue; 12-28-2006 at 01:46 PM..
PacificBlue is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 12:17 PM   #99
thegregmizzou
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3
iTrader: (0)
Got same Crutchfield harness

I just got a Pioneer deh-p6800mp and installed it easily with the Crutchfield harness. I have the same interference noise and whine and it drives me nuts. The Crutchfield harness doesnt have the same grounds as the Scosche (analog, digital, chasis). The preouts from my head unit are 2.2v/1k ohms. So assuming the Crutchfiled and Scosche harnesses are the same I need around a 1/4 watt 633 ohm resistor?? What about the differences in the grouds? Should I just twist all 4 ends of the resistors and splice them into the ground on my Crutchfield harness?

Anyone completed this mod with the Crutchfield harness?? Any other ideas/suggestions??

I dont want to buy the Scosche one if I dont have to

Thanks in advance and happy new year!

Greg
thegregmizzou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 01:43 PM   #100
26252
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 82
iTrader: (0)
Good news - work finished early. Bad news - looks like my New Years plans have fallen through.

Well, it seems that the one Crutchfield provides is made by Metra (the name Metra is stamped on one side of the connector), and after dissassembly, looks like there are no resistors at all.

I bought a bunch of 200 ohm resistors, aiming at that 500mv sweet spot, so I hope the lack of existing resistors doesn't affect these calculations much! The wire lengths I'm working with here are kind of short, but so far no major problems.

Also I gotta say. PacificBlue, this thread's over 3 years old now, THAT is dedication, and we totally appreciate it.


(a few hours later)

Looks like a success! Well... it LOOKS like a sack of crap, but it... SOUNDS like a success! I had a hell of a time with this one - the wires aren't soldered to anything externally accessible like the Scosche, so I had to do some cutting and really iffy soldering. Also I couldn't get everything shrinkwrapped so I had to do some dodgy taping. My fingertips hurt.

The verdict: I need my audiophile friend to listen for a second opinion, but I don't think I can hear anymore alternator whine! Also, pre-mod the volume @ 3-4 would be about listening level, and anything louder than 6 or 7 would be too loud. At 1, you'd still have to talk over it if someone was in the car. Post-mod, 1 is actually QUIET, and good listening is around... 12-15? 20ish gets too loud. If this is all I've managed to do, I'd say I'm quite happy! Now I can finally get all the settings done and not worry about re-doing them, and re-setting the clock all the time.

Quick pics:

Resistors wired into pre-amp outputs

The final product. Look at that lack of worksmanship

@ thegregmizzou:
It's a real PITA to mod this one, my advice is don't strip off the heatshrink on the pre-out RCAs themselves because you won't be doing anything around them. You'll have to decide where to cut the pre-out +s, but about mid-way worked alright for me.

Finally, you'll only need the one analog ground to tie everything together, however, you'll need to add an extension bit to it, after unsoldering the the pre-out -s from it. I ended up leaving that bit bare, and re-attaching the pre-out -s to it, while using the other end of the extension to wire the resistors to (that's the bit of shrink sticking out perpendicularly from the rest there in the second pic).

Honestly, I think the Scosche would make doing this a ton easier, but it CAN be done on the Metra/Crutchfield, and I'm kinda glad now that I didn't spend the extra. I wonder if Crutchfield knows about this problem. Good luck!
26252 is offline   View this Members' Photo Gallery Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Go Back   NewCelica.org Forum > Celica Discussion > Audio, Electrical, & Security

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:22 AM.

vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.