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Old 11-18-2012, 05:36 PM   #1
renfield90
 
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Spun rod bearings

I most likely spun a rod bearing at a track event yesterday. Symptoms are I was low on oil, heard a weird flapping/knocking noise (difficult to hear at speed), loss of power, loss of virtually all oil pressure (I have a gauge), coughs a bit of smoke on startup.

I did a full lap, pitted, then shut off the motor once I realized that was the source of the noise. I haven't listened very carefully to it but one of the guys there with lots of experience dealing with Toyota motors said a spun bearing was most likely. I haven't had a chance to drain the oil and check for metal shavings though.

I've done some searching and I've got three questions.

1. Let's say I really don't give a crap about the motor. How much longer can I drive it? Or is that not safe?

2. My understanding is that I need to replace the rod bearing(s), the rod(s) in question, the crankshaft, and the piston rings. I'm on a budget, and again I don't care too much about the motor. Can I cut corners here and reuse things (like the crankshaft) if they're still true?

2a. How do I know if a part is still true? Is this something that's painfully obvious or subtle to determine?

3. I don't have an engine lift. Is it strictly necessary to remove the motor or can I do the repairs with the motor in the car?

Greatly appreciate any advice you can give as this is also my daily driver and I'm in a bit of a bind.
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:05 PM   #2
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drain oil. remove oil pan (bolts, then pry until it comes off, do NOT strike the block/pan)
you will then see the crank and you will be able to see if there is clearly play, if im not mistaken the first cylinder is the first to get damaged most of the time.

If the rod is loose around the crank, then the bearing is probably destroyed, crank most likely out of round and damaged and connecting rod damaged as well.

You will need a 12 point socket (dont remember which) to remove the lower part of the rod to inspect properly.

If its that, you must replace the motor (cheaper than replacing parts with new parts usually) or get it rebuilt if possible.
good luck
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:10 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mad.mdx View Post
drain oil. remove oil pan (bolts, then pry until it comes off, do NOT strike the block/pan)
you will then see the crank and you will be able to see if there is clearly play, if im not mistaken the first cylinder is the first to get damaged most of the time.
Thanks. The guy at the track already advised me to do this. Car is sitting at my dad's house and I didn't have a way to get over there today.

You need FIPG to put the oil pan back on, correct?

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If its that, you must replace the motor (cheaper than replacing parts with new parts usually) or get it rebuilt if possible.
I've looked up prices and replacing the motor is not realistic for me right now, but as soon as I get a new job then it's definitely in the car's future. As such, I don't really care to rebuild the entire motor, just replace the broken bits and get another couple months or so out of it. Is that feasible?
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:57 PM   #4
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More questions: what part numbers for the rod bearings? I'm looking at a site that lists Mark 1, 2, 3, and 4 for these bearings. Don't know how well this link will work but click here: http://www.toyotapartszone.com/Page_...ponentsIndex=9

Having seen some pictures now (particularly from GSBoek's thread: https://newcelica.org/forums/showthre...t=spun+bearing), how much damage is too much damage to the crankshaft? I know someone who can get the parts for fairly cheap, but a bad crankshaft might break my bank.

I realize I'm asking a lot of questions, but this is all new to me. I'm still searching and trying to educate myself as much as possible.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:49 AM   #5
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from what you describe, you need a new crankshaft. the spun bearing has mangled the journal on the crankshaft beyond repair. I dont trust repaired cranks anyways. too many times have i seen them just spin bearings all over again.

you need to pull the engine to get to the crankshaft. you can pull the pan and the rod cap and see the damage for yourself, but in the end you are just going to have to pull the engine.

yes at a minimum you will need a crankshaft ~400 bucks, rod ~75, bearings all around ~200. you dont necessarily need new piston rings. but it never hurts to put in new ones.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:06 AM   #6
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I dont trust repaired cranks anyways. too many times have i seen them just spin bearings all over again.
This!

and don't drive at all...you might end crapping the head if everything goes...
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renfield90 View Post
1. Let's say I really don't give a crap about the motor. How much longer can I drive it? Or is that not safe?
You drove it too long already. Like Smaay and Many said, you'll risk damaging more things in the process. You lost oil pressure so that's your main indicator to not drive.

Quote:
2. My understanding is that I need to replace the rod bearing(s), the rod(s) in question, the crankshaft, and the piston rings. I'm on a budget, and again I don't care too much about the motor. Can I cut corners here and reuse things (like the crankshaft) if they're still true?
By your account of things I highly doubt any of those survived. I'd skip these and go straight for a shortblock.

Quote:
2a. How do I know if a part is still true? Is this something that's painfully obvious or subtle to determine?
The only way to know if anything is true is to measure. We are talking margins so small that you'd need a shop to do it.

Quote:
3. I don't have an engine lift. Is it strictly necessary to remove the motor or can I do the repairs with the motor in the car?
Motor has to come out, there's no other way to do it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:39 PM   #8
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Thanks for all the help guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSBoek View Post
You drove it too long already. Like Smaay and Many said, you'll risk damaging more things in the process. You lost oil pressure so that's your main indicator to not drive.
Yeah, I was afraid of that. It went sort of like:

"Hey, what's that noise? Did I just cut a tire?"
*immediately pass entry to pits*
"Oh crap, no power or oil pressure. This lap is gonna be painful."

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I'd skip these and go straight for a shortblock.
That's what I'd really like to do, but that's a financial impossibility right now. In, say, a month or two I should have a new job with 4x the income I have now and then that becomes a possibility.

That's what I mean when I say I don't care what happens to the motor (as long as it lasts another two months). Maybe it's time to look at junkyards...
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:07 PM   #9
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Yep junkyard it is because it's not going to last another week.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
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Yep junkyard it is because it's not going to last another week.
Sorry, I should've been more clear - I meant for used motors or used parts from motors. I realize the risks involved with a source like that but it's significantly cheaper. Should be able to use any Corolla 1ZZ crank/rods, correct? How about a whole Corolla 1ZZ? (I haven't searched that fully yet so forgive my ignorance - I know the IM is different, but I don't know if there are other issues).

But yeah, junkyard might be my last resort.
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Last edited by renfield90; 11-20-2012 at 06:00 AM..
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renfield90 View Post
I'm looking at a site that lists Mark 1, 2, 3, and 4 for these bearings
The rod caps have the bearing mark # on them and they run 1-3. The 1-5 are the mains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mad.mdx View Post
if im not mistaken the first cylinder is the first to get damaged most of the time.
#4 on a GT-S seems to be the common one. I don't know about the GT.


Given that the OP has an '01 GT, I tend to agree with either a new shortblock or a used '03+ longblock (if he's not going to do a 2ZZ swap). Trying to repair the existing shortblock is probably not worth it, as the crank is likely toast, rings are bad, rod may need replacing, and there's a good chance that the cylinder walls are scarred.

Last edited by 2way; 11-26-2012 at 05:20 PM..
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:45 PM   #12
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There are a few places or people in the state that rent out engine lifts. I think it's about $20-50 for a day or weekend. Pick up included

I had to use one for my SC300 1JZ swap a couple of months ago
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:53 PM   #13
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Were you low on oil due to oil consumption or leak
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:28 AM   #14
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yes you could get something like an 03+ corolla 1ZZ, the engine is the same, you just have to change over the manifolds and accessories.
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:44 AM   #15
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my timing chain broke the other day, turns out it broke because cylender 1 spun its berring and it was ground to powder and ran through the engine, leading to too much resistance for the chain to handle. if you drove it at all after it spun then you will probably need a completly new engine. my 3rd cylender exhaust valves also bent due to the broken chain. the engine is pretty light tho and if you take the head off you should be able to lift out the rest by yourself. id recomend help tho. if anyone knows were i can get a cheap used 1zz or 2zz in florida pm me.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:21 PM   #16
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because cylinder 1 spun its bearing
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Originally Posted by mad.mdx View Post
if im not mistaken the first cylinder is the first to get damaged most of the time.
Supports your memory regarding 1ZZs.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:26 PM   #17
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Sorry for the delay, caught a nasty cold and didn't feel like getting under the car for several days.

Yes on metal shavings so I definitely spun a bearing. I also found a second fluid in the oil when I drained it, enough to to make it's own slick on the surface when looking at my drip pan. I'm guessing coolant or gasoline (smelled more like the latter) - either way, it seems I have damage beyond the shortblock. Probably best to just call the whole motor toast and move forward from there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboceliGTS View Post
Were you low on oil due to oil consumption or leak
Oil consumption. I consumed over a quart (probably closer to two) in 80 minutes of track time. I'm normally anal about checking oil levels but with the download sessions and a schedule change we didn't get much time to actually tend to our cars before the next session.

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yes you could get something like an 03+ corolla 1ZZ, the engine is the same, you just have to change over the manifolds and accessories.
This is what I'm looking at now. Anyone know which accessories besides the manifolds?

If it's not fea$ible, the car gets junked.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:58 PM   #18
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I think you can find a moderately priced 2003 and up 1zz. Sometimes you can get lucky and find one on craigslist.

I think you now know firsthand how the earlier 1zz engines sucked in regards to oil consumption..
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:16 PM   #19
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Will a 1ZZ from a 98-02 Corolla swap in just fine? I realize they will have the same piston ring problem, but they're easier to find in a junkyard.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:16 PM   #20
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2002
Engine
Toyota Celica 1.8,A -intake, 200 COMP
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Stk #: 00121060 Price $1725
Arizona Auto Parts - URG 8000, PRP West USA-AZ(Phoenix) 800-352-4036 / 602-253-5111

2004
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Toyota Corolla not FX AT,FUEL INJ,FWD
74,149 miles
Stk. #: N984NE Price: $1500
Precision Auto Parts USA-AZ(Phoenix) 1-602-232-5146 1-877-703-3583

2004
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Stk. #: A16480 Price: $1100
Riteway Auto Parts - PRP West USA-AZ(Phoenix) 1-800-585-7507/602-268-1481
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:20 PM   #21
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Mind as well get the lowest mileage one lol

Well depending on reviews of the business
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:32 PM   #22
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2way, you're awesome! I'll call them Monday.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:55 AM   #23
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2way, you're awesome! I'll call them Monday.
Just kidding. Got a cash offer for the car I couldn't refuse, it's gone.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:12 PM   #24
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Just kidding.


Well, you can tell the new owner.
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