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Old 09-09-2009, 09:17 AM   #1
youngxlos
 
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youngxlos built engine V2.1

hey guys, yes I'm in the right section, I have decided to go Turbo.
I don't want super crazy power, I don't want my trans to blow up on me, so 300-350hp would be ideal for my dd Celica.

So a little help, what parts should I keep and what parts should I sell???
here is what I'm thinking about keeping
old valve-train, MWR retainers, Super Tech valve, Eibach valve spring, and piper stage 3, no port and polish i don't think ill need it, I don't want much hp
as for the bottom end, Ill keep the knifed edge crank, and the cw oil pump gear.

pistons I was thinking Mahle 10.5:1 or should i go 9.0:1????
and as for the turbo i was thinking about going with the GT2871R
Ill def upgrade the fuel pump to 255 instead of 190
as for rods MWR should be fine for that power level right???
ummm do i need a fuel return system????
that's all i can think off, guide me in the right direction please
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:30 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngxlos View Post
hey guys, yes I'm in the right section, I have decided to go boost.
I don't want super crazy power, I don't want my trans to blow up on me, so 300-350hp would be ideal for my dd Celica.

So a little help, what parts should I keep and what parts should I sell???
here is what I'm thinking about keeping
old valve-train, MWR retainers, Super Tech valve, Eibach valve spring, and piper stage 3, no port and polish i don't think ill need it, I don't want much hp
as for the bottom end, Ill keep the knifed edge crank, and the cw oil pump gear.

pistons I was thinking Mahle 10.5:1 or should i go 9.0:1????
and as for the turbo i was thinking about going with the GT2871R
Ill def upgrade the fuel pump to 255 instead of 190
as for rods MWR should be fine for that power level right???
ummm do i need a fuel return system????
that's all i can think off, guide me in the right direction please
maybe I am missing something here but if you are willing to spend out on ^ above list of parts then would it not be just as cheap to finish the N/A build which you already have almost everything for?

I definitely want to see you get your celi back on the road, whatever route you choose.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:30 AM   #3
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I'd go with the 9:1 Mahle's. 10.5:1 is definitely too high. If I were to do mine again, I'd go with 9:1 rather than 10:1.

Stock rods will be fine.

For fuel, you'll want the 255 lph pump and MWR 630cc injectors. You can get away without the return system and can add it later when you want to turn up the boost.

Turbo selection is somewhat debatable. For your goals, I'd go with the the 48 trim GT2871R that I have or the GT2860RS. I have similar power goals to you, but can't run as much boost due to higher compression. With 9:1, you could simply run higher boost (which would necessitate a return system) and use the smaller turbo. What you should do is ride in my car and see what you think about it.

For the manifolds and piping, you could go a number of ways. The MWR stuff is super nice, but also super expensive. The big equal-length manifold also seems more suited to bigger external wastegate turbos. The Turbokits.com stuff looks great but I really dislike their intercooler piping setup. That said, it isn't horrible and as long as you get a 3" upper intercooler pipe, you'll be set.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:30 AM   #4
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http://www.staticxmotorsports.com/ga...oactuator.aspxpretty good price i guess, also could i just buy the turbo and work my away around it, piping and manifold wise???
i dont have 3k to drop all at once.
i was thinking about doing what Jesse did, have the engine build and running and adding the turbo later on. meaning buying parts slowly till the kit is complete
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:32 AM   #5
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DO NOT buy a turbo until you ride in my car and talk to me. Many turbo sources are shady.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:40 AM   #6
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sounds good Jesse, any machine shops you trust???? should i stay stock sleeves??? i don't mind using sleeves, of course this time with the correct sleeves....
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegeta4ss View Post
maybe I am missing something here but if you are willing to spend out on ^ above list of parts then would it not be just as cheap to finish the N/A build which you already have almost everything for?

I definitely want to see you get your celi back on the road, whatever route you choose.
hp levels will never keep me happy, i have come to realize that i wont be happy if i stay n/a i might have traction issues with the fwd turbo but i know i could go to the track and add slicks and run way faster times any n/a celica could.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:45 AM   #8
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hp levels will never keep me happy, i have come to realize that i wont be happy if i stay n/a i might have traction issues with the fwd turbo but i know i could go to the track and add slicks and run way faster times any n/a celica could.
I can understand that.

In that case I would do what you posted above and build the motor up like Jesse did and then throw on the turbo down the road.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:46 AM   #9
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stage 3 cams are not meant for FI either. stock or stage 2's if you feel like swapping.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:49 AM   #10
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take my turbo!! in my garage!!
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:27 PM   #11
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Good luck with the project. A totally different horse, I assure you, lol.
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:27 PM   #12
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that mean you gotta get new vanity plates..lol
good luck we should meet up sometime.
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:52 PM   #13
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Good luck with what ever route you chose, too bad we won't get to see the V2.0 completed!

if you ever decide to sell the cams, pm me
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Old 09-09-2009, 03:09 PM   #14
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Carlos..

I see your following in my steps,.. I hope I didn't sway you by my N/A to F/I transition. Your build was always has inspired me. I just hope the turbo version does the same!
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Old 09-09-2009, 03:21 PM   #15
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sell your cams and go back to stock. if you are going to sleeve, dont get mahle, get wisecos.

as for compression Jesse is right, higher compression means less boost to make the same power. i think its a trade off. look at the compressor map of the turbo and see what boost gets you to where you want to be
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Old 09-09-2009, 04:44 PM   #16
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wow crazy change
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Old 09-09-2009, 04:56 PM   #17
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glad you're not giving up on making some power.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smaay View Post
sell your cams and go back to stock. if you are going to sleeve, dont get mahle, get wisecos.

as for compression Jesse is right, higher compression means less boost to make the same power. i think its a trade off. look at the compressor map of the turbo and see what boost gets you to where you want to be
whats wrong with stage 3 cams??? Jesse said it should be fine.
Jesse also told me to stay with stock sleeves and go with Mahle and stay with stock rods.
i know i should search but is the stock head capable of making 350whp??? keep in mind i don't wanna go crazy on the boost side, i wanna make good power at low boost because i want this thing to last
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Old 09-09-2009, 08:32 PM   #19
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If you want to make big power at low boost, you might want to choose a slightly larger turbo for more CFM.

Also, I believe the head is capable, from my research, the biggest breaking point is stock pistons at 300WHP
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Old 09-09-2009, 08:52 PM   #20
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pistons will be replace no matter what.
but cams will help like Jesse said on my other thread, the cams low lobe kills the stock one so i am sure it should make good power at lower rpm because of the cams, and yes i know i wont use the cams at their full potential but i don't wanna go buy a new set when i can still use this one, i will also have the DD intake manifold so that should help my number also
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:26 AM   #21
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Good luck Carlos, there'll be plenty of guys more than willing to help. Let's ALL hope this one goes well and you get back on the road ASAP bud. F/I FTW!
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:29 AM   #22
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sell your cams and go back to stock. if you are going to sleeve, dont get mahle, get wisecos.

as for compression Jesse is right, higher compression means less boost to make the same power. i think its a trade off. look at the compressor map of the turbo and see what boost gets you to where you want to be
He's going to go with the 9:1 Mahle's. He has a brand new shortblock and these will drop right in. Dave has shown that the stock block with the valve reliefs flows better than a sleeved block. Also, the 9:1's are available immediately.

So with 9:1 pistons, he'll run higher boost than I do. I'm going to give him a ride in my car with the 48 trim GT2871R but I'm leaning towards thinking that the GT2860RS will be more suitable here. My car was designed around higher compression (10:1), lower boost and a small trim compressor to aid spool. He can run up around 20 psi with the compression he has and be well into the power range he's after. If you look at the compressor maps for either turbo, to get max efficiency at maximum flow of the compressor, you want to be running a pressure ratio greater than 2:1. Also, with the big cams, it should breathe great up top and the 62 trim compressor should really shine. It should also spool great, since it's a smaller compressor than what I have.
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:36 AM   #23
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all of that sounds awesome Jesse
quick question, say i do go with the GT2860RS could i just tell for say turbokits.com to custom make me a exhaust manifold to fit that turbo? or should i be looking at going to like inline pro witch is local and have them make me one???
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:57 AM   #24
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i am going the same route soon, so I will watch this with interest. Good luck youngxlos with this.
A question that may be interesting to the OP too. If I get PFC + datalogic will fit my 03 GTS, no DBW and still be able to use my A/C?
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:25 AM   #25
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He's going to go with the 9:1 Mahle's. He has a brand new shortblock and these will drop right in. Dave has shown that the stock block with the valve reliefs flows better than a sleeved block. Also, the 9:1's are available immediately.
nothing wrong with that, just make sure the block is still in spec. MWR has run into brand new blocks that still fell out of spec.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:05 AM   #26
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thanks for that info Smaay, ummm i guess ill have to wait till Jesse is in town and can come look at my block.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:33 AM   #27
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quick question, say i do go with the GT2860RS could i just tell for say turbokits.com to custom make me a exhaust manifold to fit that turbo?
The t-k.com manifold is designed to work with either the GT2860RS or the GT2871R. They both use the exact same turbine housing. That is provided you get an authentic Garrett turbo. Many of the discount places you see online buy the Garrett CHRA and then stick on aftermarket housings, which are a fraction of the price. They can sell them for less to unsuspecting customers and make more money. That's why I said talk to me before doing anything.
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nothing wrong with that, just make sure the block is still in spec.
There's a good machine shop locally that I was going to have him use. I was planning on having him send the block up there to have the rings gapped. They can measure the bores at the same time.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:40 AM   #28
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Seems like we are in the same boat, youngxlos, just your pockets are a bit deeper!

Get that GT2871R. I think it will suit you well. Along with the low comp Mahles (given you're in spec, and which ever compression you choose) and you will be where you want I bet. Turbokits.com will sell thier kit WITH the GT2871R complete. It is an available option, so you can ditch the T28 they give in the base kit, like mine.

Also, the question to be answered is 350WHP on stock head? Possible (safely)?
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:40 AM   #29
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When did Eibach start making valve springs?

Who's building the motor?




Quote:
Originally Posted by youngxlos View Post
hey guys, yes I'm in the right section, I have decided to go boost.
I don't want super crazy power, I don't want my trans to blow up on me, so 300-350hp would be ideal for my dd Celica.

So a little help, what parts should I keep and what parts should I sell???
here is what I'm thinking about keeping
old valve-train, MWR retainers, Super Tech valve, Eibach valve spring, and piper stage 3, no port and polish i don't think ill need it, I don't want much hp
as for the bottom end, Ill keep the knifed edge crank, and the cw oil pump gear.

pistons I was thinking Mahle 10.5:1 or should i go 9.0:1????
and as for the turbo i was thinking about going with the GT2871R
Ill def upgrade the fuel pump to 255 instead of 190
as for rods MWR should be fine for that power level right???
ummm do i need a fuel return system????
that's all i can think off, guide me in the right direction please
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:54 AM   #30
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Who's building the motor?
I am. Other than obviously the machine work.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:04 PM   #31
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looks like im going to go with the turbokits.com kit since its pretty complete and all i would have to do is pay the extra 700 for the GT2871R
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:19 PM   #32
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Welcome to the crew youngxlos.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:32 PM   #33
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looks like im going to go with the turbokits.com kit
Too bad you abandoned the N/A project, it was something interesting to follow, but welcome to the boost club.

Be sure to get the 3" MAF sensor tube upgrade.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:41 PM   #34
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^^^ yeah i had too, the power was just not there, took me almost 3 years to realize but we learn from our mistakes.
btw where do i add the 3" MAF sensor tube upgrade i dont see it on their site
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:28 AM   #35
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its unfortunate that it took you quite some time and after so much $$$$ has been invested. g/l with your new build. although im not shooting for the same HP as you but i will be satisfied with close to 250 for my own enjoyment. anyways subscribing to your thread...
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:22 AM   #36
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When did Eibach start making valve springs?
for the 2zz , about 7 years ago....
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:28 AM   #37
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btw where do i add the 3" MAF sensor tube upgrade i dont see it on their site
i think i've seen a 3" tube on ppe's site.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:30 AM   #38
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looks like im going to go with the turbokits.com kit since its pretty complete and all i would have to do is pay the extra 700 for the GT2871R
Seriously, talk to me before you make any purchases. You've been bitten in the ass a lot of times in the past by rushing into things.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:06 AM   #39
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If you want to make big power at low boost, you might want to choose a slightly larger turbo for more CFM.

Also, I believe the head is capable, from my research, the biggest breaking point is stock pistons at 300WHP
a larger turbo will also spool slower, however... So when looking at low end power, you will be lacking.

As far as the head goes, I believe Smaay's running with a stock head and making over 500whp. I know his cams are stock but i'm not sure about valves and springs. Are you still going to run with the flat face valves? It might help spool time with the 9:1 pistons.

If i'm not mistaken, stage 2 cams are better than 3 for FI because they have a smaller overlap. You don't get as much blow-through and therefore can make more power... but then again, you could probably tune this out with your VVT settings
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:18 AM   #40
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Jesse my main focus is getting the car to run, I don't have 3k to buy the Kit yet but that is what I think I wanna go with, I'll decide when you take me for a spin today
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Old 09-11-2009, 09:36 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Entranced View Post
a larger turbo will also spool slower, however... So when looking at low end power, you will be lacking.
I'm not convinced the GT2871R is what Carlos is really after. Obviously I have this turbo so I like it, but my car runs 10:1 compression, which is much higher than what Carlos will be running. For that reason, I can't run a ton of boost, so my peak hp will be down.

Side note: there are two common GT2871R's, a 56 trim and a 48 trim. These are vastly different turbos in terms of performance and so people should never generalize when talking about this turbo.

In the case of 9:1 compression, Carlos' stated goals, I really think the GT2860RS could be a better choice. Keep in mind that there's people making over 300 whp on this turbo on stock cams, stock manifold and running pretty low boost, where the turbo isn't even operating at peak efficiency. With the low compression, this car can be running up around 20-24 psi of boost. If that sounds like a lot, consider that a stock EVO runs boost like that. At the maximum flow of the compressor, the turbo is actually more efficient at that boost.

I'm going to give Carlos a ride in my car to see how he likes it, but with big cams, the DD manifold and big boost, I don't see any reason why his car couldn't get well into his desired range with the smaller and faster spooling GT2860RS.
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Old 09-11-2009, 11:10 AM   #42
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Thanks Jesse I'll see you later today
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:31 PM   #43
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where do i add the 3" MAF sensor tube upgrade i dont see it on their site
I don't think there is an option on the site, just contact Jesse via email before you order and be sure to tell him you want the largest MAF pipe.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:02 PM   #44
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well after taking a ride in Jesse's car and after speaking to him for a good while. i think i should go with the GT2860RS, i know in the back of my mind i should go bigger just in case i wanna make more power, but like Jesse said my setup with this turbo should be really good because of my compression i could run higher boost and probably make the same or more power as him.
again the main focus is getting the car to run, so im just waiting on Dave to send my rods back
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:50 PM   #45
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wow nice
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Old 09-11-2009, 09:37 PM   #46
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i think i should go with the GT2860RS
Good choice
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:38 PM   #47
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yeah and i know Jesse knows what his talking about so ill follow his advice
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:45 AM   #48
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I gave Carlos a ride in my car with the GT2871R and 10:1 compression. I'm currently only at around 10 psi (according to the boost controller) and only running I believe 16 degrees total timing under boost, so it's retarded as hell right now. Even like this, I was not able to keep traction in first gear, even with a limited slip. I basically explained it as, "the car is already losing traction and it has probably another 80 hp in it."

Carlos, to try and put your mind at rest that you don't need a bigger turbo, when you're running low compression, you pretty much need high boost to gain back the power you're losing in the compression. With my setup on a lower compression motor plus cams and a DD manifold, you're talking about a 400 whp car. You do not need 400 whp. At 400 whp, you're talking about no traction in any gear, basically a highway-only car. Also, a fast-spooling turbo is really fun to drive. if you're ever driven something like a Camaro with tons of torque, you know what it feels like to have mountains of torque on demand. Believe me, you'll be extremely happy with the GT2860RS. It should easily be a 350 whp car.
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Old 09-12-2009, 09:49 AM   #49
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why not GT28RS then or is it too small?
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Old 09-12-2009, 06:21 PM   #50
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probably too small
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