[rieter]

Hello!
New posting on this forum, but I've been scouring it for help.
I wrench on all of my junk, just did motor/tranny mounts on the wife's Sienna.
Just got 2000 GTS with auto trans for the daughter. The brakes were a mess from the longtime PO. (another time in this car's life, it was in my driveway with metal/metal in the front) RR caliper was metal on metal with a hyper extended piston. Left rear was frozen. Had to pull the wheel and sledgehammer it to get the car home. Surprisingly this guy had been driving it and was going to continue until the seizure. He told me the master is fairly new (looks like it) and the car has had
Anyhow, new/rebuilt calipers all around, new discs/pads all around. Bled the brakes. A lot. Went around the car probably 5 times. Used 5 bottles of DOT3. No bubbles and all of the fluid is new twice over now. I don't see any leaks on the rubber lines and all of the metal lines look pretty good.
Pedal is awful and ABS light comes on at startup. Had to drive it to an interior cleaning and I bedded the brakes ok and the ABS is working. Light goes out when driving, comes back on when stopped.
Are there any known issues with the ABS module or wheel sensors? I have not bench bled the master though.
Would an ABS scan tool work on this car?
Thanks!
Howie

 

[Sheik Ya Bootie]

Firstly I think abs should be running dot 4 at least and personally I’d run 5.1... but this has nothing to do with your issues.

3 bottles of brake fluid should tell you you have stuffed something up.
Did you remove your calipers to rebuild them with kits and clean up your pistons or replace?
I’m betting you have mixed up calipers and pull left on the right. This puts a bleeder no longer at the highest point for bleeding.

when I stripped my calipers and cleaned everything .. front and rear I used less than a bottle to bleed and finish the job.. that’s a good amount less than a pint... under 500ml.

everything was gravity bled to start. Just opened the bleeders till the fluid appeared.

re check what you have done.

 

[rieter]

Firstly I think abs should be running dot 4 at least and personally I’d run 5.1... but this has nothing to do with your issues.

3 bottles of brake fluid should tell you you have stuffed something up.
Did you remove your calipers to rebuild them with kits and clean up your pistons or replace?
I’m betting you have mixed up calipers and pull left on the right. This puts a bleeder no longer at the highest point for bleeding.

when I stripped my calipers and cleaned everything .. front and rear I used less than a bottle to bleed and finish the job.. that’s a good amount less than a pint... under 500ml.

everything was gravity bled to start. Just opened the bleeders till the fluid appeared.

re check what you have done.

Calipers were bought rebuilt. One side at a time. bleeder screw at the top. DOT 3 is what is required on the cap of the Toyota reservoir. BTW, local Jeep mechanic tells me that factory has gone baqck to DOT3 from 4. Type isn't really the issue here.. Plenty of local discussion about this. If something is stuffed up then I shouldn't have had so much fluid passing. The local idea is that there is a bubble trapped somewhere.
Done lots of brakes before with plenty of success and firm pedals with the same process regardless of marque.

 

[rieter]

As a matter of fact, if i wanted such a crappy response, I could go to The Samba and ask a Toyota question there.

 

[Sheik Ya Bootie]

I accept what you’re saying...

Long ago I dropped into a servo workshop where the two mechanics were on their 3rd bottle of fluid bleeding a speedway sprint car without success. 30 seconds later I said the rear calipers was upside down, take it off, block the pads apart and bleed it inverted..

40 years experience between them failed to notice .

just saw your reply..

Maybe a 6th or 7th bottle will help you.

5 bottles you have a serious stuff up problem.

have you determined what wheel has your problem, or if it’s a wheel?

there is a rubber hose each caliper. Get some brake hose clamps and isolate the hydraulic system first

 

[rieter]

I accept what you’re saying...

Long ago I dropped into a servo workshop where the two mechanics were on their 3rd bottle of fluid bleeding a speedway sprint car without success. 30 seconds later I said the rear calipers was upside down, take it off, block the pads apart and bleed it inverted..

40 years experience between them failed to notice .

just saw your reply..

Maybe a 6th or 7th bottle will help you.

5 bottles you have a serious stuff up problem.

have you determined what wheel has your problem, or if it’s a wheel?

there is a rubber hose each caliper. Get some brake hose clamps and isolate the hydraulic system first

I am about to bench bleed the master. my biggest question is the distro block. I am also curious about the abs sensors as the rear calipers wore differently. RR was metal/metal and the LR was seized and still had pad. Fronts were fairly OK>
My Jeep buddy dealer mechanic had mentioned this about some FCA products. Sensors at the wheels could be bad which would make the pads wear at different rates.

So the other question is if I can see the wheel ABS sensors with a better OBD2 reader. Can the car provide me with the info while driving? My current wifi dongle won't do it, but I want to make sure the car's system will support that diagnostic.
H

 

[mxaustin]

Is the pedal going to the floor?

2000 GTS Turbo

 

[rieter]

Not quite, but close

 

[mxaustin]

Is the master new?

2000 GTS Turbo

 

[rieter]

Master is pretty new. i just bench bled it. Got a good bubble out of the passenger side output. pulled the o ring gasket and it looked pretty good. Reinstalled and included a rubber composite gasket I made to not have metal/metal contact from booster to master. Cleaned out the whole area with brakekleen (non chlorinated) and put a little grease on the shaft.
Bled again twice, rr, lr, rf, Lf. Still spongey.
Anyone used an obd2 tool with the Bleed function? Foxwell has a couple although the nt630 is not available. I am willing to buy an obd2 tool for less than $300.
Anyone have an opinion on this route?

 

[Sheik Ya Bootie]

It’s hydraulic not electrical

spend $50 bucks buy minimum 2 brake line clamps. Put on rear hoses, try pedal, put on front hoses try pedal. Much better to get 4 and clamp all hoses. This removes the calipers from the system. If it’s still spongey it’s in the master section, if it’s hard it’s in a caliper.. then you gotta work out which one.

 

[Sheik Ya Bootie]

Been a long time sinc I’ve come across a master bypassing one stage only ... but it could happen..

 

[rieter]

Been a long time sinc I’ve come across a master bypassing one stage only ... but it could happen..

So my point is that i think the bad rear caliper gulped some air. I haven't had time to check the individual calipers, but it shows that the master did and the abs module probably did too as it is closer to the calipers than the master.
The line of thinking ignores that maybe the abs module does have an air issue. The troubleshooter in me cannot ignore that and I've worked my way to the middle. ABS module.

 

[rieter]

ABS modules can indeed get air trapped. If they didn't then this wouldn't be a feature on OBD2 scanners and wouldn't show up in tech notes for other manufacturers. My local Jeep guy agrees.

 

[mxaustin]

ABS modules can indeed get air trapped. If they didn't then this wouldn't be a feature on OBD2 scanners and wouldn't show up in tech notes for other manufacturers. My local Jeep guy agrees.

Is it possible? Yes. Likely no. Ur local jeep guy isnt valid here bud lmao.... GMs were also common for abs bleeding issues but thats also not the same abs system.... i also cant recall a TOYOTA abs system being used on a jeep...

u still have air in ur lines not ur ABS modualtor. Either buy a pressure bleeder or put a pan under each brake and crack all four bleeders for a few hours then refill if needed, tighten them all pump ur brakes and crack em agian for a few hours. Works every time.

2000 GTS Turbo

 

[Sheik Ya Bootie]

Gravity bleeding.. the hallmark of champions...

hour is a bit long though.

 

[rieter]

Gravity bleeding.. the hallmark of champions...

hour is a bit long though.

not the calipers....
clamped them off and still soft pedal.
Stay tuned

 

[mxaustin]

not the calipers....
clamped them off and still soft pedal.
Stay tuned

Replace ur master.

2000 GTS Turbo

 

[rieter]

Replace ur master.

2000 GTS Turbo

closed off the master. checked with pedal and it is ok. no leaks evident.
You can throw parts at your car if you want.
Lots of advice on other Toyota forums regarding the abs bleed.
If TL;DR, I think I air got in the system via the RR caliper.
Thanks for playing.
I really feel like this is The Samba. If you know any VW aircooled guys.

 

[rieter]

closed off the master. checked with pedal and it is ok. no leaks evident.
You can throw parts at your car if you want.
Lots of advice on other Toyota forums regarding the abs bleed.
If TL;DR, I think I air got in the system via the RR caliper.
Thanks for playing.
I really feel like this is The Samba. If you know any VW aircooled guys.

It is the only original component in the system.
BTW, the calipers have "L" and "R" cast right into them in case you have problems with such things. I guess if you really did know the cars then you would also know that the brake hoses wouldn't install either @Sheik Ya Bootie
Still looking for an intelligent response on ABS bleeding.