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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just a quick update -- I will post dynos and provide more details later.

First off, tuning took quite a while, but I am happy to report that there is no knock or ping, just smooth power and torque :thumbup:

The only slight disapointment was the amount of power I made, which was a mere 7-8 whp and 3-6 wtq up top. On the bright side, I made more power throughout the entire rev range, and up to 6-8 more wtq at midrange, which you can definitely feel :D

My tuner played with the camcon as well, but to no avail (I may try to convince my tuner to experiment further with the camcon -- but I was there all day as it was... so he may have called it quits a bit prematurely...)

So right now, best total numbers were around 187-188 whp and 129-132 wtq, SAE corrected with considerable heat soak (see more on this below).

These are very modest gains for 2 more lbs of boost, but again this non-intercooled, conservatively tuned, and with about 25% drivetrain losses from the auto trans, so keep that in mind! All in all, I'm happy, tho' I had hoped to cross the 190 mark :shrugs:

As to heatsoak, this was a MAJOR problem! We had to wait a bit for cooling down between runs -- and even then it was DAMN HOT! After sucessive runs, even with a brief cool-down interval, the MAFS was reading idle air temps of a whopping 140 F :faint: (ambient was 96 -100), so I probably have a bit more power at my feet under normal driving conditions (normally, my shielded SRI reads within 10 degrees of ambient at cruise), and especially on a sub-mid 90's F evening.

Importantly, desipte very high heat and high heat soak, it's running very smoothly, and safely!

Although I had hoped to hit 190+ today, and fell a bit short (tho' again, I bet on a cooler day, with less heat soak, I bet I'm there), but I should come close to 200 whp with W/I (I hope), which is in the works for sometime around mid October.

That's all for now, more on this later.

Miles -- thanks for everything! You'll be the first to hear about the W/I when the time comes ;)

P.S.
Yes, Jesse, this is my "quick" update :p:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Monster Hui said:
sweet!

you just changed the pully?

think 10.5psi still safe for the motor with stock pumps and such?
My answer is a tentative, highly optimistic guess of "yes, perfectly safe".
 

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haha, well hope it'll be okay. It's very tempting to go with a 10.5psi pully even for just that ~7whp since it seems it's getting harder and harder to squeeze out more hp and ~7whp is quite a bit with just a pully.

but im just worried about how relialbe it'd make the car for track, especially after starving my old motor : /
 

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Sounds really good..not bad at all. I wish I had a spare intercooler to send up to you to see what numbers you'd put down then. Have you tried to make the tune a lil more agressive yet? You might be able to get more out of it and still keep it within a safe zone even without the intercooler. I'm guessing more towards 195hp...the 200hp would be an eye opener though. My only concern would be if the weather outside gets really hot one day your engine will pay the price.
 

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Sounds great! Congratz bro!

Now just get that water injection on there!
 

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Where you get the upgraded pulley? Whats it come with stock, like 8psi?
 

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blinding-gts said:
Sounds really good..not bad at all. I wish I had a spare intercooler to send up to you to see what numbers you'd put down then. Have you tried to make the tune a lil more agressive yet? You might be able to get more out of it and still keep it within a safe zone even without the intercooler. I'm guessing more towards 195hp...the 200hp would be an eye opener though. My only concern would be if the weather outside gets really hot one day your engine will pay the price.
a intercooler will not work with a greddy set up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
blinding-gts said:
Sounds really good..not bad at all. I wish I had a spare intercooler to send up to you to see what numbers you'd put down then.
Thank you for the very generous offer! :thumbup: Unfortunately, getting an intercooler to fit is, well, a serious custom project. W/I will be easier to do, and I plan on using a direct port system, with a nozzle for each runner. This one here http://www.enginerunup.com/street-c...ital-progressively-controlled-kit/prod_22.php

I expect the kit, plus install and tuning will run me around a grand, so it's a bit on the pricey side, but I should be able to afford it this year :)

blinding-gts said:
Have you tried to make the tune a lil more agressive yet? You might be able to get more out of it and still keep it within a safe zone even without the intercooler. I'm guessing more towards 195hp...the 200hp would be an eye opener though.
No -- the goal was to get it safe and see where it was -- my tuner plays it pretty conservative and he knows I'm not interested in bigger numbers I can't safely keep just to prove a point...

I do think there may be more power to be had with more camcon tuning tho', we didn't have time to experiment too much with it...


blinding-gts said:
My only concern would be if the weather outside gets really hot one day your engine will pay the price.
A reasonable concern... but keep in mind that it was around 100 today out side, and I was logging pre-compressor temps of 140 F due to serious heatsoak (in normal driving I'm very close to ambient), both on the dyno, and on the road under load, with no knock.

If I was safe under these conditions, I can't imagine I'm going to get any knock during normal driving -- but I SERIOUSLY welcome input on this from Boosted2.0, Jesse, and other knowledgeable folks. Trust me, I DO NOT WANT TO BLOW THE ENGINE. By all means, guys, feel free to convince to put back on the other pulley if you think it aint safe! I will not put up much of an argument... ;)


Monster Hui said:
haha, well hope it'll be okay. It's very tempting to go with a 10.5psi pully even for just that ~7whp since it seems it's getting harder and harder to squeeze out more hp and ~7whp is quite a bit with just a pully.

but im just worried about how relialbe it'd make the car for track, especially after starving my old motor : /
That is definitely something Boosted or Jesse could better answer -- let me swap my tentative "yes" for an equally unsure "no, probably not..."

But then again, MWR beat the living hell out their GT-S at the track with 11.5 psi before they damaged anything, and it still ran... :shrugs:


Boosted2.0 said:
Sounds great! Congratz bro!

Now just get that water injection on there!
Thank you, thank you! Do you think the stock internals will be okay for the time being (he asked, suddenly feeling a little paranoid and out of his depth...) :hide:


SickCelica696 said:
Where you get the upgraded pulley? Whats it come with stock, like 8psi?
Kit pulley = 8.5; PM milesplume if you are planning to purchase the Greddy kit and are feeling adventurous -- he has a source :)

mukalicious said:
you need to do a manual swap. ;)
No way man. I like to have a free hand for feeling up unwary female passengers :gap:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Okay, I just scanned my dyno printout -- I could swear it was emailed it to me, but I don't seem to have it :confused:



Couple of things -- this was NOT actually my best dyno -- the best was just over 188 and whp and 132+ wtq -- some of this is heatsoak.

Compare it to the dyno numbers for the poor car pre S/C, pre camcon, and pre-intake -- just a greddy evo exhaust and high flow panel filter on the stock airbox... :ugh: It's come a long way since then ;)

BTW: One more thing about the pitifully low numbers for the stock AT -- note those are SAE corrected values. Also note also that the dyno was taken on a 55 F day.

Want to know what effect temperature had on whp and wtq for the stock auto when it was 40+ degrees cooler? Well, uncorrected on the stock GT-S, it made over 144 whp and about 110 wtq -- or around 10% more power.

So there ya go -- an easy way to get more power is to wait for winter :p:
 

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Congratulations jiltman - I'm glad you managed to get it running without any knock. :thumbup:

I'd still like to see someone measure the charge temps within the Greddy manifold - 10.5 psi uncooled (Greddy+Miles' pulley) and 11.5psi cooled (MWR) are not the same thing - watch your engine temps like a hawk!

Best of luck, and I can't wait to see what you get with cooling. Ignore the MT bigots - if you'd wanted one, you'd have bought one in the first place!
 

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You look fine bro - the AFs are decent and the power levels aren't excessive for stock internals. Once you get water injection going you will have it made in the shade.
 

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Must get water injection! Greedy should halved thought about adding ports to the manafold for it. Simple drill and tap, or have it come all ready and like just remove the plugs, then all you got to do is add nozzles.
 

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jlitman said:
blinding-gts said:
Sounds really good..not bad at all. I wish I had a spare intercooler to send up to you to see what numbers you'd put down then.
Thank you for the very generous offer! :thumbup: Unfortunately, getting an intercooler to fit is, well, a serious custom project. W/I will be easier to do, and I plan on using a direct port system, with a nozzle for each runner. This one here http://www.enginerunup.com/street-c...ital-progressively-controlled-kit/prod_22.php

I expect the kit, plus install and tuning will run me around a grand, so it's a bit on the pricey side, but I should be able to afford it this year :)
I always love custom work, but that water inj. kit is really nice. I was looking into that one myself but the cost is what holds me back.
There are also DIY kits which I've done before for my other car but the digital progressive controller is impressive compared to just using the boost pressure switch for activation. I was thinking of just buying the controller and customizing the rest to see the results. It also comes down to spare time as well. :D
 

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BTW, since the MAF is before the SC, the temp reading is no way correct. Heatsoak is much worse near the manifold and in additions, the compressed air also increases temperature. If you put a temp probe in the manifold, I wouldn't be surprised if it jumps 30+ degrees.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Gravel said:
Congratulations jiltman - I'm glad you managed to get it running without any knock. :thumbup:

I'd still like to see someone measure the charge temps within the Greddy manifold - 10.5 psi uncooled (Greddy+Miles' pulley) and 11.5psi cooled (MWR) are not the same thing - watch your engine temps like a hawk!

Best of luck, and I can't wait to see what you get with cooling. Ignore the MT bigots - if you'd wanted one, you'd have bought one in the first place!
Thanks, Gravel! :D I've been monitoring intake temps, and I am consistently within about 10 degrees of ambient at normal cruise, a bit warmer at idle.

What was, at first, a little unsetlling was that even after being done with the dyno, I was logging coolant temps over 200 F (normally around 183-188 F) and air temps between 126 and 140 F for like an hour :scared: . All I kept thinking was "Oh, please let this be heat soak and not a side effect of the higher boost!" (What do I know? I'm new to all of this... :shrugs: ).

But after letting car cool down completely, normal operating water and expected air temps were being logged -- so yep, all due to heat soak! Unbelieveable! That means while on the dyno, the car was drawing in air that was over 40% hotter than ambient!!! :faint:

SAE corrects for ambient temperatures and other atmospheric conditions, but NOT heat soak, so I suspect I (and maybe everyone, especially in the high summer heat) am actually making a bit more power than was measured.

The car feels like it has real grunt off this line and through the mid range now -- notice the big bump in torque through out the middle of rev range. After adding W/I cooling, maybe I will hit/surpass 200 whp and 140 wtq -- guess we'll find out! :chuckles:

As an additional precaution, I added five gallons of 100 AKI race fuel, and will probably make a point continue adding a few gallons each fill-up until either the daily ambient temps drop or I get my W/I kit, so I think she'll be fine :)


Boosted2.0 said:
You look fine bro - the AFs are decent and the power levels aren't excessive for stock internals. Once you get water injection going you will have it made in the shade.
Cool! :thumbup: :thumbup: Thanks for the reassurance!!! I'm estimating about 250 -260 to the crank if I'm seeing around 188 (even if that's a bit of an underestimate due to heat soak), so when you put it terms of power output rather than psi, it makes sense that it's safe for the engine, considering there's folks with over 300 whp driving around :D

6speedGTS said:
Must get water injection! Greedy should halved thought about adding ports to the manafold for it. Simple drill and tap, or have it come all ready and like just remove the plugs, then all you got to do is add nozzles.
Agreed! I think W/I is still a relativley new trick up the sleeve of sport compact car tuners... does anyone in Japan even do this? The idea is clearly catching on tho' :)


blinding-gts said:
I always love custom work, but that water inj. kit is really nice. I was looking into that one myself but the cost is what holds me back.
There are also DIY kits which I've done before for my other car but the digital progressive controller is impressive compared to just using the boost pressure switch for activation. I was thinking of just buying the controller and customizing the rest to see the results. It also comes down to spare time as well. :D
The specs on all the components of this kit meet or exceed everything else out there, with the possible exception of the $900 Aquamist 3D tuning kit, so I'm pretty certain this is the one for me! Maybe I can work out a GB when the time comes... hmmm... something to think about ;)

Thanks for all the input / feedback, guys! :thumbup: I'll share more updates (hopefully uniformly positve ones) as things progress :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
nyoneway said:
BTW, since the MAF is before the SC, the temp reading is no way correct. Heatsoak is much worse near the manifold and in additions, the compressed air also increases temperature. If you put a temp probe in the manifold, I wouldn't be surprised if it jumps 30+ degrees.
Actually, according to Magnuson, more like 130 - 160 degrees hotter at max output, which with this pulley will be about 12,500 RPMs when I am revving at 7800 :faint:
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/mp62.htm

On the other hand, if it didn't go boom under those conditions, I think it'll be okay on the road ;) We also tested it under load, and the car was still logging between 126-140, pre-compressor, so should be safe, especially if I bump up the octane on each fill-up to 94+ with some race fuel mixed in.
 

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I wonder if you can route the AC lines in there. I think Ford did that with the Lightnight concept or whatever and gained 40+hp just with using the AC lines cooling the charged air.
 
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