NewCelica.org Forum banner

What say you?

  • Camry

    Votes: 6 42.9%
  • Prius

    Votes: 5 35.7%
  • other Hybrid

    Votes: 2 14.3%
  • needs more cow bell

    Votes: 2 14.3%
1 - 20 of 72 Posts

·
Daddy Daycare
Joined
·
20,305 Posts
I'll take a Crown Hybrid, thank you very much :gap:

But between these two I'd take the Prius, also for the better fuel economy. Makes a lot of sense in my all-city environment.
 

·
00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
Joined
·
4,137 Posts
The Camry.

Why?

Because I can go mad scientist, stick on a modified Scion TC turbo kit, stick in a built block much cheaper than a 2zz built block, tune it nice and smooth on the AEM FIC piggyback ECU, and enjoy automatic gas effecient goodness along with turbo power when I decide to floor my right foot :D .

I wonder if anybody is going to step up and do this crap before other mad scientist people go ahead and do it...so far in the auto industry...hybrids are starting to be the golden ticket...and small displacement turbo engines are gaining popularity...why not combine both and get 40 mpg AND 300 hp or something? Chevy is already eeking out 30 mpg out of its 260 hp/260 ft*lb new turbocharged Cobalt SS...the gained weight of having a hybrid system can be made up with making the cars weigh less, giving cars smaller dimensions (growing trend), and tuning the factory turbocharged engine for more power.
 

·
Oh. Snap. Ohsnapohsnap
Joined
·
2,517 Posts
^^you know, not all consumers are always looking to turbo/upgrade cams bla bla bla boost psi bla bla bla add a 233353 wet shot bla bla bla.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,925 Posts
If I had to choose, it would be the Camry. I've driven both extensively, and the Camry holds up sooo much better (and looks much better IMO..subjective yes I know).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
568 Posts
The Camry.

Why?

Because I can go mad scientist, stick on a modified Scion TC turbo kit, stick in a built block much cheaper than a 2zz built block, tune it nice and smooth on the AEM FIC piggyback ECU, and enjoy automatic gas effecient goodness along with turbo power when I decide to floor my right foot :D .

I wonder if anybody is going to step up and do this crap before other mad scientist people go ahead and do it...so far in the auto industry...hybrids are starting to be the golden ticket...and small displacement turbo engines are gaining popularity...why not combine both and get 40 mpg AND 300 hp or something? Chevy is already eeking out 30 mpg out of its 260 hp/260 ft*lb new turbocharged Cobalt SS...the gained weight of having a hybrid system can be made up with making the cars weigh less, giving cars smaller dimensions (growing trend), and tuning the factory turbocharged engine for more power.
thats pretty interesting there o_O
a hybrid with a turbo
o_O is it even posible to stick it in there somehow?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,169 Posts
The Camry.

Why?

Because I can go mad scientist, stick on a modified Scion TC turbo kit, stick in a built block much cheaper than a 2zz built block, tune it nice and smooth on the AEM FIC piggyback ECU, and enjoy automatic gas effecient goodness along with turbo power when I decide to floor my right foot :D .
Uh huh :rolleyes:

The Camry is definitely the more bouyant of the two turds.
 

·
Daddy Daycare
Joined
·
20,305 Posts
^I wonder why, powers higher up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,703 Posts
drop it and purchse some super lightweight wheels and a lightweight stainless steel exhaust and I guarantee you're looking at 2-3 more MPG too.
It's actually a bigger car than I need. I sorta wish they made a smaller version that was several hundred pounds lighter so it could get upwards of 60 MPG maybe. Something like the Insight. Not ridiculously small like the Smart though.
 

·
00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
Joined
·
4,137 Posts
Volkswagen already did it with a hybrid turbo-diesel and got 70something mpg.

Of course they decided not to put it into production.
Point proven.
 

·
NO ONE SLEEP IN TOKYO!!!!
Joined
·
15,579 Posts
It's actually a bigger car than I need. I sorta wish they made a smaller version that was several hundred pounds lighter so it could get upwards of 60 MPG maybe. Something like the Insight. Not ridiculously small like the Smart though.
so why not just buy an Insight?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,703 Posts
Because it's a 2-seater. Although I did consider buying one and having that as my second car to my Prius a couple years ago.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,002 Posts
Prius, cause its "cute!" :gap: :chuckles: :gap:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,365 Posts
None of the above.

Yaris hatch.
Now THAT thing is kinda "cute"

:hide:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
48,554 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Comparison Test: 08 Fit vs. 08 Prius

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=130069
Gauge Match

It's, Like, Driving, You Know?

Driving a Toyota Prius is kind of the same thing as bowling with a Nintendo Wii. Sure, a Prius has four wheels, two pedals and a steering wheel, but it doesn't have the same bite of reality as hurling a 16-pound Brunswick Fury Pearl down the lane.

To start with, its key isn't even a key; it's a smooth, rubbery fob that you stick in the dash. Press the On button, various lights appear at the base of the windshield, and you jiggle a joystick protruding from the dashboard to select a gear.

You'll notice there are no distinct gear selections as you've grown to expect with forward progress. Instead, the Prius wills itself down Main Street, or perhaps it's drawn to the other side of town by a tractor beam. Occasionally, the gasoline engine will wake up with a twitch, and shiver like it just got goose bumps. "Did you just feel something?" your passengers will ask.

But the Prius isn't all that slow when you press the accelerator to the floor. Through a complicated, continuously variable planetary gearset, the Prius can simultaneously dump all its available electricity while maxing the gasoline engine's output of 75 horsepower at 5,000 rpm. With a combined/blended output of 110 hp, zero to 60 mph will take just 10.1 seconds (9.7 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip).

When the "Slow! Kid Zone" speed bump arrives, you'll press the brake pedal and notice a slight whirring sound and gentle, linear slowing. That's the regenerative brake function at work, which is effectively like winding an electric motor backward to make electricity. Then right before you almost rear end your neighbor's Camry, there's a moment of perceived horizontal free fall when the Prius switches to traditional mechanical brakes between 5 mph and zero. Our best stop from 60 mph consumed 125 feet.

Light Effort
As you begin to twist the Prius' steering wheel, you'll find little resistance. This electric-assisted power steering has a 19:1 steering ratio, one of the slowest we've ever seen. You need to spin the springy wheel almost four times around to do a U-turn in 34 feet.

It turns out the Prius is rather nimble despite its woozy Novocain-filled controls. The base model 2008 Toyota Prius doesn't have electronic stability control, and our skid pad results show 0.78g in lateral grip compared to a 0.71g registered for a Prius with stability control. The base model Prius weaves through the cones at 63.3 mph compared to the frustrating fight with stability control that's required to get a 61.3-mph run in the upmarket car.

Riding down the highway, the Prius is remarkably capable at soaking up bumps and seams. The Prius is surprisingly svelte at 2,936 pounds despite its battery pack. Compared to the Fit, the Prius maintains a substantial, planted feel over more surface textures. And quiet tires and slippery aerodynamics help make the Prius comfortably hushed, registering just 70 dBA at 70 mph.

Fun To Drive?
The all-knowing electronic screen that sits atop the Prius' dashboard has two different pages showing your instantaneous, accumulating and average fuel economy, as well as where the driving power is coming from and going to. And guess what? Looking at it (responsibly, of course) will affect the way you drive.

Driving becomes "The Economy Game, brought to you in three parts by Toyota." It's nearly impossible to resist counting how many little green cars you've earned that represent how much electricity you've generated. Or how many times you can stack up blocks, maxing out the 100-mpg bar graphs. Or learning the greatest indicated speed you can reach before the gasoline engine starts up and begins knocking down the mpg bar.

Our score? Over 675 miles in the Prius, we averaged 42 mpg, with a best result of 51 mpg on one tank. In comparison, the Fit returned an average of 28 mpg over 800 miles with a best tank of 38 mpg.

The Prius is fun to drive in a strange, arcade-style way. It feeds your sense of social responsibility and you become a weenie hypermiler.

Fit for the Fight?
Which brings us to the base model 2008 Honda Fit. There's a reason it costs $8,425 less than the Prius. For starters, it's not chock-full o' expensive tech and 168 nickel-metal hydride batteries. Unless you're really good at mental gymnastics, playing the Fit's version of the Economy Game only happens with a calculator in your hand at the gas station.

So there's that, and the Fit doesn't have a keyless remote or cruise control or aluminum wheels or audio/HVAC buttons on its steering wheel or floor mats or even map lights. Frankly, we were half expecting to find four window cranks when we popped open the Fit's doors.

The Fit does have great interior packaging, however. With all the seats up, it offers 7 cubic feet more cargo volume than the Prius; once the seats go down there are 12 cubic feet more. The Fit's second-row seat bottoms flip up to accommodate tall items like a bicycle as long as it measures less than 50 by 50 inches.

There's even a way to convert the second row into what Honda euphemistically calls "Refresh Mode" that was characterized by one of our editors as "Business Class Seating."

So what you get for $15,420 is a small car with a big interior that's powered by a high-revving four-cylinder engine that earns above-average fuel economy. But it's hardly a penalty box, and you might be happy to learn all of its driving dynamics will be familiar.

Not a Good Sport
To be honest, though, the Honda Fit doesn't put its best foot forward with this budget-friendly model, largely because of its automatic transmission. Like so many automatics in this efficiency-minded age, the Fit's five-speed strives to get to top gear as soon as possible.

At freeway speeds, it's so reluctant to downshift from 5th to 4th that you lose patience and pin the gas pedal to the floor...and there goes your fuel economy. Then the transmission decides you're in a really big hurry, so it skips over 4th to 3rd. Adding insult to injury is the fact that there's no way to manually select 4th gear as the PRNDL mirrors its programming with either D or D3 positions.

Repeat this profanity-filled fiasco several dozen times, and you'll be convinced to opt for the available manual transmission for less money, or the Sport model's paddle shifters in concert with the automatic for a little more. The automatic doesn't do the Fit any favors for acceleration either. With its 109-hp 1.5-liter inline-4 driving the front wheels, the Fit arrives at 60 mph in 11.4 seconds (11.1 seconds with a 1-foot rollout like on a drag strip).

The base model Fit has narrower tires than the Sport model, so our best efforts resulted in a 0.75g orbit around the skid pad and a sporty-feeling 62.3-mph pass through the slalom. (In comparison, a Fit Sport produces 0.80g lateral acceleration and a 67.5-mph pass.) Put the brakes on and the 2,517-pound Fit comes to a halt in 131 feet.

The True Cost of Ownership
Thanks to a proprietary function called Edmunds.com True Cost to Own (TCOSM), we can answer the $8,425 question when it comes time to determine the relative value of the 2008 Honda Fit and 2008 Toyota Prius.

Is it more financially beneficial to buy a Prius base model for $23,845 or a Fit base model for $15,420? The EPA says the Prius earns 46 mpg in combined city and highway use, while the Fit's combined rating is 30 mpg. If you drive 15,000 miles a year, the Fit will consume 174 gallons of fuel more than the Prius. If you drive the same number of miles over the course of five years, Edmunds.com TCO calculations predict the five-year aggregated fuel costs will total $11,480 for the Fit and $7,911 for the Prius, or a difference of $3,569.

This means the Prius would still be $4,856 shy of breaking even with fuel-cost savings alone.

Here's the math: Difference in purchase prices minus difference in fuel cost = perceived difference in operating cost. That is: $8,425-$3,569 = $4,856.

But the Edmunds TCO also accounts for financing charges, insurance payments, taxes, regular maintenance costs and repairs, so the cost gap between the Fit and Prius over five years is even greater, an out-of-pocket difference of $5,351. In other words, choosing the Fit over the Prius would mean you'd still be ahead by $3,074 ($8,425-$5,351 = $3,074).

We're working on a side-by-side version of TCO, but you can look at each one individually for the 2008 Honda Fit and 2008 Toyota Prius. Extra points if you know how to manage split-screen viewing.

Guzzle-lator
So how long does it take to break even on your investment in a 2008 Toyota Prius? We have another proprietary tool called the Gas Mileage Savings Calculator. It uses some TCO data, and also offers you the opportunity to input your typical monthly mileage, your ZIP code, two different vehicles and your best guess at the cost of a gallon of gas to see how many months it would take until that magic break-even point occurs.

For the purposes of this particular comparison, we input 1,250 miles of driving per month (the same 15,000 miles per year as above), a price of $4.49 per gallon of gas (typical for Santa Monica, California), this 2008 Toyota Prius and a 2008 Honda Fit for the trade-in sale value.

It takes 189 months or more than 15 years to break even on fuel. And that's well beyond the battery-swap schedule. As the tool notes, "You will not save any money by trading in your current vehicle for the fuel-efficient vehicle you have selected."

And the Winner Is...
At this point, our usual 100-point comparison-test score card would appear, well, pointless. But be that as it may, the 2008 Honda Fit still comes out on top in this comparison by a slim margin of 1.9 points. Usually we declare such a close finish the equivalent of a tie, but the Edmunds True Cost of Ownership makes the 2008 Toyota Prius the obvious runner-up.

As our score sheets indicate, the Honda Fit earns points for its obvious price advantage, decent fuel economy and remarkable interior packaging. Even by heavily weighting fuel consumption at 30 percent of the total score, the Toyota Prius can't manage to overtake the Fit's lead in the scoring.

So the 2008 Honda Fit is our choice. When it comes to the complicated issue of small-car goodness, sometimes the simple answers are the most effective.



marc's going to be happy. 2000 XYR isn't. anybody cross shopping the two vehicles can't go wrong. what would you choose? the new fit is already being sold in JDM-land and the next-gen Prius is on the way.

Discuss. :eatpop:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
48,554 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Honda, Buoyed by Fit, Reviews More Japan Models for U.S. Lineup

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601209&sid=aHQmCfXaYWdw&refer=transportation
Honda Motor Co., encouraged by U.S. demand for Fit subcompacts, is reviewing its Japanese lineup for other possible imports as near-record fuel prices spark interest in cars once viewed as too small or quirky.

``There are a couple of things that we are looking at again, whether they make sense right now,'' Dan Bonawitz, Honda's U.S. vice president for corporate planning, said in an interview yesterday, without naming specific models.

The U.S. introduction of the Fit in 2006, five years after its Japan debut, is helping Honda post gains in 2008 even as a slowing economy and gasoline that topped $4 a gallon erode industrywide demand. U.S. sales of the hatchback, rated at 30 miles per gallon in combined city and highway driving, jumped 73 percent through last month.

Those gains contributed to making Honda the only major automaker to expand U.S. sales this year. General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Toyota Motor Corp. are now also considering bringing in small cars designed for overseas markets.

Honda has studied the compact Stream wagon and a Japanese version of the Odyssey minivan that would be categorized as a station wagon in the U.S., Bonawitz said in an interview in Malibu, California. He declined to say whether either would be added to Honda's U.S. lineup.

The automaker is also benefiting from demand for fuel- efficient Civic small cars and four-cylinder Accords. Honda's U.S. sales have grown 3.2 percent this year, compared with an 11 percent industrywide decline through the first seven months.

The company won't rush any Japan market models to the U.S. until it's confident current U.S. patterns are likely to continue, said Bonawitz, who manages a team of U.S. product planners.

``We've got a fairly long-term product plan laid out and we're going to try to stick with that,'' Bonawitz said.

The company's U.S. headquarters are in Torrance, California.



no thanks. bring something else over. well, it could give the Versa a run for its money.
 
1 - 20 of 72 Posts
Top