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Discussion Starter #1
I can't believe it myself. For years we've been told how slow the 4.6 sohc is, and its inability to make huge horsepower numbers. Well, here are two separate cars with the motor that are pushing very high horsepower numbers, and it doesnt osund like th emotor is done yet, either. About time we start seeing the mod motors take off!

http://www.mustangweekly.com/2002/may/news/n5-9-3rd.asp

600-horsepower Roush Mustang
MustangWeekly.com reader (or is that viewer?) Tim Barth recently informed us that his 2-valve Roush Mustang, with a Vortech supercharger and Ford Racing intake, achieved 603 rear-wheel horsepower on the dyno at Higgins Ford Performance. Barth says the injectors maxed out at 5,800 rpm, so Higgins is currently preparing to add larger injectors along with a DFI unit. "Our goal is 650 rear-wheel horsepower with the S-trim," Tim says. "A larger blower and a small shot of nitrous should put us deep into the 700-horsepower range." For dyno sheets and more photos, go to the Higgins Website at www.higginsfordperformance.com.

and here's another one..

http://www.mustangweekly.com/2002/july/news/n7-7-3rd.asp

World
 

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Discussion Starter #3
iwantaferrari said:
call me when theyre making 4 digit HP figures like the windsors are and have been for a while
impressive numbers tho to say the least... :) good to see a mod motor besides the DOHCs holding thier own and then some
How old is the Windsor compared to the modular?

nuff said.
 

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gee ken..what are the odds that an engine that was derived in the 50s has had more performance wrung out of it than a new one?

i chose a windsor for the cobra for that very reason..but come on..

(BTW- ive seen a 96 4.6l stang run 8s, and theres faster ones out there)
 

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iwantaferrari said:


i dont see celicas making that kinda power :)
...

There's this huge inequality between displacements in these two engines. Of course you won't see Celicas hitting 600hp for a while as the engine is much younger than that 4.6l.
 

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powercx said:
Ford went the right way installing SOHC Engine rather than the pushrod.
:rofl: Wake me up when Ford can crank out the power like the GM LS1 and LS6 PUSHROD without the use of a factory blower. The GM pushrods burn cleaner and get better gas mileage too.

Just wait until GM unleases thier new beast. A dual cam pushrod V8 making 480hp+.


Dave
 

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onigami said:


...

There's this huge inequality between displacements in these two engines. Of course you won't see Celicas hitting 600hp for a while as the engine is much younger than that 4.6l.
Mitsubishis can do it :)

I am sure a 3S-GTE can as well
 

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Dave B said:


:rofl: Wake me up when Ford can crank out the power like the GM LS1 and LS6 PUSHROD without the use of a factory blower. The GM pushrods burn cleaner and get better gas mileage too.

Just wait until GM unleases thier new beast. A dual cam pushrod V8 making 480hp+.


Dave
That's what I'm saying. the ford pushrod isn't nearly as fast as the LS1. I never mess around with LS1, but I always do with Mustang. If GM can do it without OHC, then Ford should have done it as well. Isn't more cheaper in technology development for pushrods than OHC?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
powercx said:


That's what I'm saying. the ford pushrod isn't nearly as fast as the LS1. I never mess around with LS1, but I always do with Mustang. If GM can do it without OHC, then Ford should have done it as well. Isn't more cheaper in technology development for pushrods than OHC?
the 5.0 pushrod is in the mid 6's..where's the ls1 at?

and there are other windsor based pushrod blocks that ford has, like the 351(5.8) which can and will beat tchevy's 5.7

the reason ford abanoed the 5.0 was because they could not get it to pass emissions anymore without jeoporadizing their CAFE numbers. when your car company is so focused on its SUV's and planining on producing the largest SUv ever(the excursion) you need to create emisions headroom in your fleet, and having the 5.0 in the mustang just couldnt allow them to meet their quota. it was purely financial..ford sells a **** load more trucks than mustangs.

now lets please drop this subject cuz all its going to end up into is a 40 reply flame war with everyone screaming incoherent and nonsensical facts about how the mustang sucks, etc. and i'll have to waste yet another couple hours beating them down to more realistic levels.

thank you
 

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Discussion Starter #14
powercx said:
Ford went the right way installing SOHC Engine rather than the pushrod.
please explain.

for some reason i have thsi feeling that you honestly don't know what you're talking about. there is no "better" desgin than the other (pushrod vs. ohc) and pushrods are the newer technology..

you knew that right?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Dave B said:


:rofl: Wake me up when Ford can crank out the power like the GM LS1 and LS6 PUSHROD without the use of a factory blower. The GM pushrods burn cleaner and get better gas mileage too.

Just wait until GM unleases thier new beast. A dual cam pushrod V8 making 480hp+.


Dave
Gm did their homework. Ford went into ohc design on their mod motors, and GM keep refining their pushrod design. does this make one engine inherently better than the other?

no, because any LS1 owner will admit this, the mustang has a lot mroe aftermarket support that can make up for any power difference from teh factory.

and since the cobra uses a supercharger, i guess that means that the supra and dsm's are weak too, huh? i mean they "had" to use forced induction to make power too..

oh but wait, they don't count, they're aren't made by Ford.:rolleyes:
 

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SlasherX said:


Gm did their homework. Ford went into ohc design on their mod motors, and GM keep refining their pushrod design. does this make one engine inherently better than the other?

no, because any LS1 owner will admit this, the mustang has a lot mroe aftermarket support that can make up for any power difference from teh factory.

and since the cobra uses a supercharger, i guess that means that the supra and dsm's are weak too, huh? i mean they "had" to use forced induction to make power too..

oh but wait, they don't count, they're aren't made by Ford.:rolleyes:
IMO, the pushrod is a better design because it has fewer moving parts. Ever here of Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS)? The LS1 is a amazing design and Ford struggles to come remotely close to achieving the same kind of performance from nearly the same displacement (talking about trucks, Ford 5.4 vs GM 5.3). The larger Ford 5.4 makes 265hp (?) and the GM 5.3 makes 285hp. I've driven both versions many times for work and the the 5.4 isn't even close.

As for the Stang having a better aftermarket than the LS1, which motor are you talking about? The 5.0 certainly has a better aftermarket than the LS1, but the SOHC 4.6 doesn't. The SOHC 4.6 and the LS1 are about the same, but the playing field weighs heavily in the LS1s favor because the LS1 is so far ahead of the SOHC 4.6 to begin with in terms of stock performance. It takes a SOHC 4.6 quite a few mods to compete with a stock LS1.

I wasn't implying that Cobras and Lightnings are weak. I was just pointing out the obvious. Ford has to use forced induction to exceed GM's fancy LS6. Even the $70K Cobra R with a trick 5.4 got walked by the $50K Z06. The 03 Cobras are pounding down ~370rwhp and 360rwtq which is awesome and I'd love to have one over any car under $35K. Keep in mind that GM already has a trick up their sleeve to compete with this stout SC DOHC 4.6. They are going to increase the displacement of the LS1/LS6 to 6L in the upcoming C5. Projected power is 480-500hp with the dual pushrod cams.

With that said, Ford is gearing up for the return of the 5.0 based on their mod-V8s. I'm eagerly waiting this motor which will be in the completely new 2005 Stang (and finally that crap 70s chassis will be retired). The 5.0 has already been tested in the FR500 Stang and the motor made an easy 320rwhp.


Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Dave B said:


IMO, the pushrod is a better design because it has fewer moving parts. Ever here of Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS)? The LS1 is a amazing design and Ford struggles to come remotely close to achieving the same kind of performance from nearly the same displacement (talking about trucks, Ford 5.4 vs GM 5.3). The larger Ford 5.4 makes 265hp (?) and the GM 5.3 makes 285hp. I've driven both versions many times for work and the the 5.4 isn't even close.

As for the Stang having a better aftermarket than the LS1, which motor are you talking about? The 5.0 certainly has a better aftermarket than the LS1, but the SOHC 4.6 doesn't. The SOHC 4.6 and the LS1 are about the same, but the playing field weighs heavily in the LS1s favor because the LS1 is so far ahead of the SOHC 4.6 to begin with in terms of stock performance. It takes a SOHC 4.6 quite a few mods to compete with a stock LS1.

I wasn't implying that Cobras and Lightnings are weak. I was just pointing out the obvious. Ford has to use forced induction to exceed GM's fancy LS6. Even the $70K Cobra R with a trick 5.4 got walked by the $50K Z06. The 03 Cobras are pounding down ~370rwhp and 360rwtq which is awesome and I'd love to have one over any car under $35K. Keep in mind that GM already has a trick up their sleeve to compete with this stout SC DOHC 4.6. They are going to increase the displacement of the LS1/LS6 to 6L in the upcoming C5. Projected power is 480-500hp with the dual pushrod cams.

With that said, Ford is gearing up for the return of the 5.0 based on their mod-V8s. I'm eagerly waiting this motor which will be in the completely new 2005 Stang (and finally that crap 70s chassis will be retired). The 5.0 has already been tested in the FR500 Stang and the motor made an easy 320rwhp.


Dave
keep in mind with teh 4.6 you have the sohc and dohc. i was combining their aftermarkets into one, which is why i was saying its larger than the ls1's. mod based motors, like the navigators 5.4, etc.

btw, the cobra r was only 55k msrp, but dealers would jack up their prices to around 70k..but that wasnt ford's list price by any means. and the cobra r hung very well with the then new zo6, it is the newest versions with 405hp etc that are better suited for all around performance. but keep in mind..1979 fairmont..i think it did a great job against the modern chasis, etc of the zo6..and it wasn't radically redone in the suspension department either.

as for hp numbers..ford is the largest seller of trucks, and has been for a long time. ford also had the mustang outselling the camaro, firebird, trans am's combined at a rate of 3 to 1. when you are doing that type of business, the highest hp numbers aren't important, so long as they're competitive, which the stang has almost always been)disregard the 96-98 sohc's, please) :).
 

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Pushrod V8's Rule in Muscle Cars

powercx said:
Ford went the right way installing SOHC Engine rather than the pushrod.
I disagree. A pushrod motor makes enough power [in the rpm band that matters for this type of vehicle] and is much, much more compact than an OHC engine. It's also cheaper. I'd much prefer a 5.0L modernized pushrod engine in a Mustang. But that's me... and a whole lot of others.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Re: Pushrod V8's Rule in Muscle Cars

Chui said:


I disagree. A pushrod motor makes enough power [in the rpm band that matters for this type of vehicle] and is much, much more compact than an OHC engine. It's also cheaper. I'd much prefer a 5.0L modernized pushrod engine in a Mustang. But that's me... and a whole lot of others.
although i love the 4.6 dohc's abilities and potential, i really would have preferred that Ford kept the 5.0 pushrod, or went to the 351 in their v8 models.

i mean, the only reason the 3.8 is remotely decent when it comes ot power/potential and aftermarket know-how, is because it is a windsor based pushrod design. its like lego's puttin gth eblock together.

or..if somoen would offer some real aftermarket heads for the 4.6's..then it would be complete.
 
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