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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all, so I have changed my pads to EBC red stuff, have all new stoptech slotted and vented rotors in the front, and solid centric rotors in the back, all stock sizing and whatnot and stock calipers. I also have stainless/braided brake hoses from MWR, as well as motul rbf660 dot4 race fluid. Braking performance is good but I hate how much input is required to get the car to really stop hard. The pedal has a bit of a spongey feel to it. I drive my car fairly hard on backroads and plan to take it to some track days and autocross, and was trying to figure out what my options are. I've driven a number of new cars that have a very firm bite with very little pedal input, and I would like the celica to have something similar so it is more confidence inspiring.

I'm not looking to spend thousands on a big brake kit and larger wheels and whatnot - I'd like to keep my stock wheels and suspension for now. I have seen that people in the UK have had great results swapping the front caliper, rotor, and pads to a setup taken off a Toyota Avensis. I was considering doing that but am wondering if there are any better options. Also my concern is how difficult would it be to get replacement rotors and pads, are the rotors and pads an off the shelf part shared with any other vehicles in the USDM?
 

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Hey all, so I have changed my pads to EBC red stuff, have all new stoptech slotted and vented rotors in the front, and solid centric rotors in the back, all stock sizing and whatnot and stock calipers. I also have stainless/braided brake hoses from MWR, as well as motul rbf660 dot4 race fluid. Braking performance is good but I hate how much input is required to get the car to really stop hard. The pedal has a bit of a spongey feel to it. I drive my car fairly hard on backroads and plan to take it to some track days and autocross, and was trying to figure out what my options are. I've driven a number of new cars that have a very firm bite with very little pedal input, and I would like the celica to have something similar so it is more confidence inspiring.

I'm not looking to spend thousands on a big brake kit and larger wheels and whatnot - I'd like to keep my stock wheels and suspension for now. I have seen that people in the UK have had great results swapping the front caliper, rotor, and pads to a setup taken off a Toyota Avensis. I was considering doing that but am wondering if there are any better options. Also my concern is how difficult would it be to get replacement rotors and pads, are the rotors and pads an off the shelf part shared with any other vehicles in the USDM?
If u want more aggressive brakes get carbon metalic brakes or get hawk pads for the best performance. Ur wheels will get dusty so keep up on ur cleaning.

Rebleed ur brakes u may have air in them to help ur spongy pedal.

U cannot compair brakes from a new car to a 20 year old system. Theres alot more electronics involved that are not in the celica system and just overall wear and tear.

2000 GTS Turbo
 

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Discussion Starter #3
If u want more aggressive brakes get carbon metalic brakes or get hawk pads for the best performance. Ur wheels will get dusty so keep up on ur cleaning.

Rebleed ur brakes u may have air in them to help ur spongy pedal.

U cannot compair brakes from a new car to a 20 year old system. Theres alot more electronics involved that are not in the celica system and just overall wear and tear.

2000 GTS Turbo
I'm confident there is nothing wrong with the braking system, I'm just looking for a more grabby pedal feel I guess. Saying get "hawk pads" doesn't really mean much as they have a ton of different types of pads...
 

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Your brake pads are designed for more heat. If you want grabby brakes buy cheap soft stuff.. if you want grabby brakes at turn 6 on lap 9 get hard brake pads and as much cooling/ventilation as you can. Auto cross as I understand what you want to do does not require hard hi temp stopping, you’ll never get them up to temp.

Gravity bleed your system, through your mag wheels if you can so you know it’s all flat then hose off each wheel snd brake really well. Should get rid of your sponge. Make sure your hoses are tagged down properly if they sit up too high guess where the air sits??

Brakes should feel like brakes no matter the age and to be honest I prefer the old cars brake feel over the modern stuff any day. Is it safer .. hell no but it’s what we grew up with.

It’s funny, my first race car I complained the brakes were crap and only slowed me, I was told I was a sook and too used to modern cars (at the time- 1985).. till my engine builder mate drove it .. horrified saying it doesn’t stop - no brakes. I told him to shut up, he wasn’t used to old cars. Then we fixed them.

These celiacs have really very good brakes std. quite surprising.
 

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If it were me I would do the conversation then save for the k sport big brake kit


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Why wont you upgrade your calipers for a bigger bite?? You will only get so much bite from 2 pistons and 20 year old tech...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Why wont you upgrade your calipers for a bigger bite?? You will only get so much bite from 2 pistons and 20 year old tech...
I never said I won't upgrade them, I just don't want to spend thousands of dollars on a big brake kit. I'm asking what my options are and so far everyone keeps spouting nonsense about my pads and fluid.
 

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Ok some more nonsense..

Have you rebuilt / overhauled / cleaned internally your callipers? They do get lazy and filled with ‘mud’. Check your pad carriers for wear and hanging up the pads. Clean and grease the slides because the old stuff becomes like silastic .

Replace your brake master but bench bleed it first.

Disable your abs unit.
 

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Then , and only then if still want a grabby brake pedal, wrap it in 80 grit sand paper and drive without shoes and socks .
 

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If you want better braking, and not have to spend any money, do what I did and perform a weight reduction. My Celica only weighs 2400lbs with me in it, which is less than the empty stock weight. All I have on my Celi are Stoptech pads and rotors on the front, Centric pads and rotors on the back, Centric calipers all around, and most importantly Stoptech steel braided brake hoses all around. Combined with Bosch DOT 5.1 brake fluid and a right and proper bleeding, my brakes are plenty "grabby" and can stop the car on a dime. You already have most of what I have, so just pick up the brake hoses and fluid and you should be fine. IIRC, your Celi is mostly original so the hoses are likely very aged despite little use, and the calipers also probably have some age to them.
 

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Our endurance race celica still runs rubber hoses and we were out braking everything except a well set up Hyundai excel and a very trick Peugeot 206.
 

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they are bled properly, 100% sure.
Well then your pedal is as good as it's going to get. If by "not grabby enough" you mean it isn't as sensitive as say, my mom's 2012 Highlander, or my friend's 2018 Elantra (both base models by the way), then I hate to brake (lol) it to ya, but you're never going to get that feeling without outright changing major components in the system. IE, stronger master cylinder and/or brake booster, bigger calipers, or some sort of special rotor alloy. The braking system will only ever grab so much using stock or near-stock dimensions/components/specifications, and in my experience most cars from the late 90s to late 00s aren't as grabby as a stock 2010s car, no matter how much you upgraded the brakes. This is simply a result of improvements in valving, tolerances, and dimensions derived over the years, and there's A TON of work needed to transfer those improvements into an older car.

Like I said before, with your set-up, there is absolutely no reason you should be feeling any sponginess in the pedal, it's likely just not as sensitive as newer cars you drive. Hell, it's to the point where when I drive my mom's Highlander I overbrake because it's still more sensitive than my brakes, even if mine brake more efficiently overall.
 

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You said your pedal was ‘spongey’ that was your word . Maybe you have a different term for spongey.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
You said your pedal was ‘spongey’ that was your word . Maybe you have a different term for spongey.
perhaps, but they're definitely bled correctly. they're just very numb feeling, and not very sensitive - and the first few mm of travel barely does anything (ie, they are not very grabby). I guess I'm just more used to driving newer cars that throw you through the windshield if you push the brake more than a few mm.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I did see people in the UK swap the calipers to avensis calipers, but Idk how I'd get ahold of pads and rotors and all that. I'd probably have to import everything... Anyone know a good UK parts place that will ship to the US? Also does anyone know specifically what year avensis it is that people swap the calipers for? Trying to price it all out.
 

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I’ve seen the same articles here.. and made half hearted attempts to cross them over myself.. but a set of willawoods. Would be better.
 
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