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I own a 2001 Celica GT. I bought it back in June with only 127K KM and its in showroom condition, as it was garage kept its whole life. I have all records back to the original purchase, and this car is still on its original clutch. It runs like a top but I believe I’m coming up to a clutch replacement soon, maybe next Spring. After driving it for 5 months, I naturally feel a 6th gear would make all the difference!
As this car is my daily driver and most of my drive is on a highway, I feel she comfortably “ tops out” at a relatively low speed in 5th----- don’t get me wrong, I understand the 1ZZ is a high revving engine and that if I wanted to push it into the high revving range, I could easily pass 160KM/H. I would like to preserve my engine as long as possible but I do have an ambition of possibly considering a 2ZZ swap, in the future. However, my thought for the short term, is to do the 6spd swap when I do the clutch, next Spring.
I have taken note of several factors: If I cruise at <100KM/H (60MPH) (approx.. 3000rpm)my gas mileage is good, at <110 KM/H (65MPH) (approx.. 3300rpm)my gas mileage is not too bad, but at >120KM/H (75MPH) (approx.. 3700rpm and up)my gas mileage really drops off. The nice thing is, it still seems to have some acceleration at all these speeds. I do understand that the gearing is different, and that going to a 6 spd doesn’t just “add a gear” but the shifting range is shorter---- I would hope though, the 6th gear range in the C60 is higher than 5th in the C56!
If anyone has done this swap and can comment on their experiences, or anyone that drives a GTS and can comment, I would welcome any input!
The first step, Is it worth it? Factors I’m considering:
Cost of C60 ($600-1000) vs. increase in top end range vs. loss of power vs. mileage---- Any comments are Welcome!! By the way, I do all mechanical work myself.
 

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Electromagnetic Wave :-h
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Celica MPG sweetspots appear to be related to torque dips and are tied to RPM (assuming a stock ECU). On the 2ZZ the main one is around 3150RPM 67-68MPH. On a 1ZZ the torque dip is somewhere around 3800-4000RPM also 67-68 MPH (maybe as high as 70MPH). A C60 on a 1ZZ will make it accelerate faster. However, 6th gear on a 1ZZ will be significantly below the 1ZZ's main RPM MPG sweetspot. The sweetspot would put you up around 80MPH and drag would probably negate it. The Dyno database is currently offline. So, I'm not able to look and see if the 1ZZ has a second lower RPM sweetspot like the 2ZZ does (& I don't remember offhand).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Celica MPG sweetspots appear to be related to torque dips and are tied to RPM (assuming a stock ECU). On the 2ZZ the main one is around 3150RPM 67-68MPH. On a 1ZZ the torque dip is somewhere around 3800-4000RPM also 67-68 MPH (maybe as high as 70MPH). A C60 on a 1ZZ will make it accelerate faster. However, 6th gear on a 1ZZ will be significantly below the 1ZZ's main RPM MPG sweetspot. The sweetspot would put you up around 80MPH and drag would probably negate it. The Dyno database is currently offline. So, I'm not able to look and see if the 1ZZ has a second lower RPM sweetspot like the 2ZZ does (& I don't remember offhand).
Wow, this is great! I knew someone could provide some info on engine characteristics relating rpm, torque and mileage. I appreciate your observations! Maybe that's why Toyota didn't offer the 6 spd with the 1ZZ...
It would be nice to have a little better throttle response at the low end, however, as you mentioned, there is a price to be paid at the top end wrt efficiency. I wonder how much of a MPG difference it would make... I noted if I drove consistently in the (100KM/H) 60mph range I could get around (600km) 375mi on a tank, however, if I pushed that up to (120-130KM/H) 75-80mph, the tank was done at (525km) 320mi...

It would be nice to know how the 1ZZ would behave wrt mileage with the C60---- as you say, if the 1ZZ runs most efficiently at a higher RPM which it wouldn't achieve with the C60(in 6th) till say (130KM/H) 80mph, and considering drag, does the 1ZZ have the power potential to achieve reasonable efficiency??

If any one out there has done this swap, are these compromises worth the $1k plus clutch? If youre doing a lot of highway driving, does the mileage take a significant hit??

Thanks ahead of time!!
 

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Electromagnetic Wave :-h
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You should be saving your coin. With an '01, you're gonna burn oil - eventually. This will force replacing the pistons/rings at a minimum.

I did manage to find one dyno on a stock GT and there is a lower torque dip at about 2.9-3K RPM. That would be around 64/65 MPH using a 6spd.
 

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You should be saving your coin. With an '01, you're gonna burn oil - eventually. This will force replacing the pistons/rings at a minimum.

I did manage to find one dyno on a stock GT and there is a lower torque dip at about 2.9-3K RPM. That would be around 64/65 MPH using a 6spd.
+1 on the oil burn. It WILL happen. I have 230k on my GT and deal with it. O2 sensor cheat because the cat is not happy. Still runs great. Passes emissions every time. You may, at some point, want to do a 2ZZ swap.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You should be saving your coin. With an '01, you're gonna burn oil - eventually. This will force replacing the pistons/rings at a minimum.

I did manage to find one dyno on a stock GT and there is a lower torque dip at about 2.9-3K RPM. That would be around 64/65 MPH using a 6spd.
+1 on the oil burn. It WILL happen. I have 230k on my GT and deal with it. O2 sensor cheat because the cat is not happy. Still runs great. Passes emissions every time. You may, at some point, want to do a 2ZZ swap.
That's excellent-- so maybe this could be a good combination...

As far as the engine is concerned, the oil burning issue is something I've been thinking about, for sure. I'm hoping a got a couple of years yet, as this car has such low KM's (127K KM= 79K miles) and has been cared for. I'm running Synthetic and Rislone now, and I'll be babying it.
I've got lots of things to consider. The immediate one is, the cost of a C60--- I've seen them for $1000 in a condition I would consider, not rebuilding them. However, if I truly want to invest in a future 2ZZ swap, I've seen JDM 2ZZ/C60 for as low as $2600 (the 2ZZ JDM is $2K alone), maybe lower at local wreckers in questionable condition.
AND there are parts on the 2ZZ that could be replaced to encourage longevity ie MWR lift bolts, titanium retainers, ARP headstuds and MWR oil pump gears to mention a few...

So, for me, the big question is how much $$$ do I have to invest in all of this??? So, do I drop a grand on a C60 plus new Clutch and possibly pressure plate maybe $400----- so total $1400

AND if I need to do a swap later, $2K for a 2ZZ or $1.2K for the status quo, a 1ZZ 03'+

OR

Buy a JDM 2ZZ/C60 for approx. $2600 plus new Clutch and possibly pressure plate maybe $400----- so total $3000

and possibly some 2ZZ upgrades-- $400...
 

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Lift kicked in yo
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You're better off selling the GT and buying a GT-S. You can likely come out even on money, and you won't have to do any of the work.

Think smarter, not harder.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
You're better off selling the GT and buying a GT-S. You can likely come out even on money, and you won't have to do any of the work.

Think smarter, not harder.
From a purely financial stand point, maybe you're right.

However, I wouldn't even talk about this swap unless I wanted to wrench it! All stick shifts need a clutch eventually, so the clutch is just a $200 maintenance item. Where's the fun in just changing the clutch?
If I wanted just a daily driver, I'd have purchased a Corolla --- again, where's the fun in that? (actually I have one of those--- I just finished dropping the rear and complete front suspension including CV's and brakes, and replacing it with assemblies I rebuilt, that I originally acquired from the Pick N' Pull, a couple of months ago! This car will be used by my son for College)

I know I talked about costs, but the money I could save, based on which decision I make, would go along way to modding the 2ZZ... When I did an engine swap in my 4Runner, I invested a fair bit in maintenance and it really paid off. Its been running flawlessly for over 2 yrs--- not a hiccup or a drop of oil on the driveway.
 

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Lift kicked in yo
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From a purely financial stand point, maybe you're right.

However, I wouldn't even talk about this swap unless I wanted to wrench it! All stick shifts need a clutch eventually, so the clutch is just a $200 maintenance item. Where's the fun in just changing the clutch?
If I wanted just a daily driver, I'd have purchased a Corolla --- again, where's the fun in that? (actually I have one of those--- I just finished dropping the rear and complete front suspension including CV's and brakes, and replacing it with assemblies I rebuilt, that I originally acquired from the Pick N' Pull, a couple of months ago! This car will be used by my son for College)

I know I talked about costs, but the money I could save, based on which decision I make, would go along way to modding the 2ZZ... When I did an engine swap in my 4Runner, I invested a fair bit in maintenance and it really paid off. Its been running flawlessly for over 2 yrs--- not a hiccup or a drop of oil on the driveway.
I don't doubt you could wrench it. Doing a swap is a ton of work, and will cost you more money than you think it will. The money you save on selling the GT and buying a GTS is way more worth it than doing the entire swap yourself. If you're set on having a C60 transmission, might as well get the entire car, so you have the power to use it (plus leather seats, 4 wheel discs, ABS, and that little thing called lift).

As far as gains go with just the C60 swap, you will see no power difference, maybe a bit better gas mileage, and your top end won't get much better either. The 6th gear is an overdrive gear, meaning 5th gear will take you basically to whatever your car decides it wants to top out at (depending on mods, etc).

Take it from me personally, as a guy who did all his own work on his 1zz Corolla and wanted to turbo it and swap in a 6 speed before realizing how much work it'd be, and how little power i would make. So I promptly sold it, and now own a GT-S. As a matter of fact, I was in the green by 400 bucks after all is said and done, so I immediately used that money on some mods (intake, exhaust). I went through the same struggle you did trust me. Save your money, sell it, and buy a GT-S. You won't regret it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I don't doubt you could wrench it. Doing a swap is a ton of work, and will cost you more money than you think it will. The money you save on selling the GT and buying a GTS is way more worth it than doing the entire swap yourself. If you're set on having a C60 transmission, might as well get the entire car, so you have the power to use it (plus leather seats, 4 wheel discs, ABS, and that little thing called lift).

As far as gains go with just the C60 swap, you will see no power difference, maybe a bit better gas mileage, and your top end won't get much better either. The 6th gear is an overdrive gear, meaning 5th gear will take you basically to whatever your car decides it wants to top out at (depending on mods, etc).

Take it from me personally, as a guy who did all his own work on his 1zz Corolla and wanted to turbo it and swap in a 6 speed before realizing how much work it'd be, and how little power i would make. So I promptly sold it, and now own a GT-S. As a matter of fact, I was in the green by 400 bucks after all is said and done, so I immediately used that money on some mods (intake, exhaust). I went through the same struggle you did trust me. Save your money, sell it, and buy a GT-S. You won't regret it.
Thanks for your input. That's just the type of first hand info I was seeking. I have read through threads of guys that have taken the 1ZZ and ported the head, turbo'd, and replaced the ECU. The results weren't much different than a stock 2ZZ, but way more money. The only reason one might do this, is the 1ZZ block is somewhat rebuild-able. From what I've read, the 2ZZ block is a disposable item if the cylinders oval or become scored---- the cylinders are a composite alloy which don't take to honing.
Anyways, I certainly have alot to consider. I may just keep the GT as is, it really is a fun car to drive---- despite the fact its stock, and its relatively low top end and moderate power, it really handles exceptionally well, grips the road, and is fun to drive here where I live, with lots of long, empty mountain roads!
Maybe by next Spring my youngest son may decide to go to College--- in which case, my budget will go towards tuition!!
 

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I dumped a C60 into my GT this summer. I got it and the engine together, and am (still) rebuilding the engine, but figured, hey, why not enjoy the shorter gearing.

I'm digging the C60.
 

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Thanks for your input. That's just the type of first hand info I was seeking. I have read through threads of guys that have taken the 1ZZ and ported the head, turbo'd, and replaced the ECU. The results weren't much different than a stock 2ZZ, but way more money. The only reason one might do this, is the 1ZZ block is somewhat rebuild-able. From what I've read, the 2ZZ block is a disposable item if the cylinders oval or become scored---- the cylinders are a composite alloy which don't take to honing.
Anyways, I certainly have alot to consider. I may just keep the GT as is, it really is a fun car to drive---- despite the fact its stock, and its relatively low top end and moderate power, it really handles exceptionally well, grips the road, and is fun to drive here where I live, with lots of long, empty mountain roads!
Maybe by next Spring my youngest son may decide to go to College--- in which case, my budget will go towards tuition!!

The 1zz needs a bunch more internal work as well to make any sort of real power. Otherwise you're stuck spending upwards of 4-5 grand, sometimes more, just to run on 7-8 psi and make maybe 200 horsepower. As far as the differences between the blocks go, the 2zz is in essence the same block used in the 1zz (they're the same family), with the exception of the forged rods and ceramic reinforced cylinder walls. So if you score a cylinder, you REALLY tried hard to fuck up. Plus, it's aluminum, so if you throw a rod or spin a bearing, you aren't coming back from that regardless.

You're making the right choice by not turboing or doing anything to the 1zz, trust me. Keep it until you feel you want something different, then simply get a faster car or at least upgrade to a GT-S. Love mine in the twisties, especially on coilovers.

I keep saying it, but for those that get the opportunity, you should consider coming to NY to drive around watkins glen for a few laps. I loved every second of it, and was nearly able to top out the car on the main straight (around 120 mph+ before turn 1). It's a thrill for sure, and they just repaved the entire surface this year. Must-go for those that are able.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I dumped a C60 into my GT this summer. I got it and the engine together, and am (still) rebuilding the engine, but figured, hey, why not enjoy the shorter gearing.

I'm digging the C60.
Awesome, someone that's done it! I assume you have shorter shifts and your RPM is still below 3.5K at 120km/h? How's your fuel economy as compared to the C56? Did you stay with the 1ZZ clutch? Did you replaced the shifter? I appreciate any comments!!!
 

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The 1zz needs a bunch more internal work as well to make any sort of real power. Otherwise you're stuck spending upwards of 4-5 grand, sometimes more, just to run on 7-8 psi and make maybe 200 horsepower. As far as the differences between the blocks go, the 2zz is in essence the same block used in the 1zz (they're the same family), with the exception of the forged rods and ceramic reinforced cylinder walls. So if you score a cylinder, you REALLY tried hard to fuck up. Plus, it's aluminum, so if you throw a rod or spin a bearing, you aren't coming back from that regardless.

You're making the right choice by not turboing or doing anything to the 1zz, trust me. Keep it until you feel you want something different, then simply get a faster car or at least upgrade to a GT-S. Love mine in the twisties, especially on coilovers.

I keep saying it, but for those that get the opportunity, you should consider coming to NY to drive around watkins glen for a few laps. I loved every second of it, and was nearly able to top out the car on the main straight (around 120 mph+ before turn 1). It's a thrill for sure, and they just repaved the entire surface this year. Must-go for those that are able.
Yeah, I have no intention of modding my 1ZZ. I'll either let it die (which could be a while!) or do the 2ZZ swap... Right now I love driving this car--- just wish my RPM was a little lower when I'm flying along the freeway--- strait and wide! Last weekend my Wife and I went for a drive along the local lakes (lots of twists and turns) and loved it! Unfortunately, my wife isn't crazy about the car---- she is over 6' and she doesn't fit too well--- knees up under the chin! She says its like riding in a sled or laying on a lounger! She prefers my 4Runner. Oh well, all mine!
Is this Watkins Glen a private track? Do you sign a Waiver and go for it? It would be great if we had something around here like that! Awesome!
 

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Awesome, someone that's done it! I assume you have shorter shifts and your RPM is still below 3.5K at 120km/h? How's your fuel economy as compared to the C56? Did you stay with the 1ZZ clutch? Did you replaced the shifter? I appreciate any comments!!!
The shorter shifts certainly make it feel a lot more lively. As far as actual performance gains go, it's probably not much, but just feels better, you know?

As far as fuel economy goes, I wailed on my car with a C56 and I wail on it now with a C60, so I get about the same mileage as before (~550 km per tank, sometimes more, sometimes less). That said, highway driving is a bit better, because the RPMs at 120 sit lower than with the C56. Usually around 3k.

I left the 1ZZ clutch on because I'm planning on eventually doing a 2ZZ swap later, and installing a new clutch for that. I already had a MWR shortshifter installed when I had a C56, so I kept it for the C60, and just got a new knob off of ebay.

I wish I would have just assumed that the 4th & 5th synchros would be bad before dumping the C60 in though, as they have pretty rough grinds while downshifting. Luckily my C56 was in similar condition, so I'm already used to double clutching. Ah well, lesson learned. I'll fix it later.

The swap doesn't take too long if you're familiar with the engine bay. I pulled the engine when I did my swap because it's hard to manhandle the transmission into place, and I also had a few things to fix while it was out (broken water pump bolt, wanted to replace the serpentine belt tensioner). I was able to get everything in and out over a weekend by myself. Some of the pros on here can do it in waaaaaaaaaay less time, but I'm just some guy, not a mechanic.
 

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Yeah, I have no intention of modding my 1ZZ. I'll either let it die (which could be a while!) or do the 2ZZ swap... Right now I love driving this car--- just wish my RPM was a little lower when I'm flying along the freeway--- strait and wide! Last weekend my Wife and I went for a drive along the local lakes (lots of twists and turns) and loved it! Unfortunately, my wife isn't crazy about the car---- she is over 6' and she doesn't fit too well--- knees up under the chin! She says its like riding in a sled or laying on a lounger! She prefers my 4Runner. Oh well, all mine!
Is this Watkins Glen a private track? Do you sign a Waiver and go for it? It would be great if we had something around here like that! Awesome!
It's open to the public during special events. It's a track on the NASCAR circuit that was decommissioned last year due to the surface conditions being too dangerous to drive on. So they closed it down for 6 months to remove the entire racing surface, in some spots down to the dirt, and replace/repave it. Opened up in April for a public event. You do sign a waiver, but it's stating that you understand the track rules and won't break them, or you risk accident/injury, and ruining it for everyone else there too. You get 3 laps and they're supervised, paced laps. But if everyone is following the rules, you basically can drive as hard as you want. To put it in perspective, I was between a Focus ST and an Evo X on the track, and was able to outcorner them both. The Evo passed me on the main straight (I let him). It was a blast though seeing what the car can really do when pushed to the limit.



That's me pushing it through the S-turn at about 80mph. I was the only Celica there out of probably 500+ cars, maybe more. It was a huge turnout. Opening weekend next year is the weekend of April 9th. Anyone in the Northeast/Tristate area should find a reason to come up and get a few laps in.

You should tell your wife to push her seat back and adjust the angle of the seat as well. The celica has plenty of room for taller people. My roommate is also over 6 feet tall and has no issues driving my car. :p:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I checked this morning. 3.3k RMP at 120 km/h
Thanks! I checked yesterday too! At 120km/h my RPM is about 3.6K, at 130km/h, RPM hits 3.9k. (see photo)

I can see that returning home (or heading out) from work, she'd cruise really comfortably--- and maybe I'd get a bit better mileage and save the engine..... At the very least it'd be fun!
 
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