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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I know PPG is better, but how much worse is Dupont if at all?

The only place that I know of that mixes/sells PPG is like 30 miles away, and the place that mixes/sells Dupont is like 2 mins away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
evil eye said:
Ask Kenny about this, he's very knowledgeable with paints.
Thanks.


I talked to my dad not long ago (he works in a paint factory) and he said that they make PPG paint for Subaru. Appearently that's what they use for their cars, and that's what my mechanic told me to get.

He also told me that I can get a Subaru at cost. ;)
 

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Originally posted by slidr
I know PPG is better, but how much worse is Dupont if at all?

From personal experience I think PPG sucks , Their Deltron line is very poor quality , and their Concept line is nothing special compared to Chroma Premeir . Dupont Chroma Premeir Is by far the best production paint system I have ever used . The base coats have great "Flop control" , and atomize very well . Not to mention they have a very fast flash time . The Clear is also far better than what PPG has to offer . I would recommend the 4500s or 7900s urethane clear , it is some really good high quality stuff . It seems everything from Dupont just "lays-out" and "flows" better than anything from PPG . The Chroma Premeir line costs a bit more than just the regular Dupont Chroma line ,but it is well worth it.


Only thing I like or use from PPG is their NCP primer,that stuff is some great primer . I worked with PPG materials for almost 2 years before we switched to Dupont & I am certifeid for both companys. So I have more than enuff experience with each. Dupont come's out on top in my opinion.


sinc:Kenny Heiser
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
KEnny Heiser 3 said:
From personal experience I think PPG sucks , Their Deltron line is very poor quality , and their Concept line is nothing special compared to Chroma Premeir . Dupont Chroma Premeir Is by far the best production paint system I have ever used . The base coats have great "Flop control" , and atomize very well . Not to mention they have a very fast flash time . The Clear is also far better than what PPG has to offer . I would recommend the 4500s or 7900s urethane clear , it is some really good high quality stuff . You won't be dissappointed , exspecially if you are used to PPG materials . The Chroma Premeir line costs a bit more than just the regular Dupont Chroma line ,but it is well worth it.


Only thing I like or use from PPG is their NCP primer,that stuff is some great primer . I worked with PPG materials for almost 2 years before we switched to Dupont & I am certifeid for both companys. So I have more than enuff experience with each. Dupont come's out on top in my opinion.


sinc:Kenny Heiser
Wow, that's a lot of good info. Thanks.


One question though...

I am using this paint to paint a fender. Should I still go with the clear base? What the difference between the clear base 4500 and 7900 urethane, and the Chroma Premeir?

Sorry, I'm stupid when it comes to paint. My mechanic told me to get a "clear base" though, and I'm not sure what that means.


Also, can I use the same paint that I am going to use for my fender for urethane side skirts? If not, then what do you recommend?

Also, my car is the stock silver color (1DO), so I should most likely use the Chroma Premeir since it has advanced flop control, right?



Thanks again.
 

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Originally posted by slidr
I am using this paint to paint a fender. Should I still go with the clear base? What the difference between the clear base 4500 and 7900 urethane, and the Chroma Premeir?
I'm not realy sure what you mean by "clear base" . In order to paint the fender this is what you will need as long as the fender is in primer and prepped ready for paint .

you will need a value shade sealer ,base coat (color of car) ,and clear coat . Your budget kinda depends what kind of materials you get for your sealer ,base ,and clear coat .

do you mean the clear is in the base color ??? that would be a single stage paint (the color dries shinny & glossy) . Both Dupont and PPG make single stage paint lines ,but your fender wont look right since the rest of he car has a base/clear coat paint job on it.

try to specify what you mean by "clear base ' a little better ???


sinc:Kenny Heiser
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
KEnny Heiser 3 said:
I'm not realy sure what you mean by "clear base" . In order to paint the fender this is what you will need as long as the fender is in primer and prepped ready for paint .

you will need a value shade sealer ,base coat (color of car) ,and clear coat . Your budget kinda depends what kind of materials you get for your sealer ,base ,and clear coat .

do you mean the clear is in the base color ??? that would be a single stage paint (the color dries shinny & glossy) . Both Dupont and PPG make single stage paint lines ,but your fender wont look right since the rest of he car has a base/clear coat paint job on it.

try to specify what you mean by "clear base ' a little better ???


sinc:Kenny Heiser
I'm not sure what I mean exactly. ;)

The guy who is fixing my told me to go out and have someone match a "PPG paint with a clear base."



He was probably wrong though, or I most likely mis-understood him.




So anyways, I'm taking my damaged fender in to a place called Colormaster and they are going to try and match a paint to it.


Could you please tell me what I should tell them to do, and what I should get?


1. Should I go with the Chroma Premeir series of paint?

2. Should I get a value shade sealer (never heard of this before)?

3. Should I not even say clear base? Should I just get the base color matched?


The guy who is painting the fender for me has the primer, catalyst, and clear coat. All he told me to get was the "color coat."

Is there anyting else I need to get?
 

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Originally posted by slidr



Also, can I use the same paint that I am going to use for my fender for urethane side skirts? If not, then what do you recommend?

Also, my car is the stock silver color (1DO), so I should most likely use the Chroma Premeir since it has advanced flop control, right?



Thanks again.

Ok bro this is my suggestion . Everything (fender and sideskirts)needs to be Prepped with 600 grit wetsand paper .If NOTHING lower than 600 grit is used , then you dont Need a sealer (so you save some $$$) .But sealer is still recomended since it makes your basecoat (color) cover better and covers up minor imperfections in the prep job.

I would suggest buying a quart of Dupont Chroma Premeir 1D0 silver ,and a quart of Dupont Chroma Premeir basemaker reducer (you will need this to reduce the sliver) . This paint will work beutifully on both your fender and your urethane sideskirts .You will probablly want to applie Dupont's Plas-stick adhesion prometer to the sideskirts aswell before sealer or paint .

all you then Need is a clear coat . Like I said I recommend the Dupont 4500s or 7500s clear coat . Both are very high quality urethane clears .You will need the appropriate reducer and activater for each.

When you get the color mixed BE SURE to give them your Vin # as well . Dupont runs a Vindicater computer system .When the place mixes your color they can put your vin # in to get the exact formula .You would not beleive how much 2 car's of the same exact color code's can vary . Dupont gets a monthelly update from Every manufacture and gets their formulas for each batch of car's painted each month. Beleive it or not the codes slightlly vary for every batch of cars that is painted each month . Its a bit confussing kinda hard to explaine. A simple way of putting it is .... A celica that is factory painted 1DO silver in july 2003 , will not have the same formula as a celica painted 1DO silver in decemcer of 2003 .It will have a minor variation in the color .

you can save some $$ by going with regular Dupont Chroma base,instead of Dupont Chroma premeir ,They are basically the same but use a different binder and balencer when mixed.

Hope this helps a little bit more

sinc:Kenny Heiser
 

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Originally posted by slidr


The guy who is painting the fender for me has the primer, catalyst, and clear coat. All he told me to get was the "color coat."

Is there anyting else I need to get?

If the guy has everything but the base color Just get a quart of 1DO base coat like I said ,and the quart of base maker. The base coat does not come reduced and it is reduced 50/50 so you will need a quart of each like I said before.

Usually panel painting is a big NO, Especially with silver . A blend into the door should at least be done .

If you are set on panel painting for budget reasons . I would suggest having the paint Vin out on the Dupont computer system like I said . Also have some test panels sprayed out , and tint the silver as close as phisically possible . If the place mixing your color has a demo spray booth ,they should be more than happy to spray out a few test panels . They will try to get an exact match, (it will cost a little bit more though) . You will have to take a OEM factory painted paice off your car for them to compare the test panels too.

If they do not have a demo booth you will have to take your quart of color to a Certifeid Dupont Autobody shop that has their own Dupont tint rack . They will be able to tint it and spray some test panels out for you aswell.

I really suggest blending though ,exspecially with silver .


sinc:Kenny Heiser
 

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Kenny, I want to get some repainting done this spring on my car. I have had no big problems with the sides and everything, but the paint on the front end just goes to hell in no time. I'm gonna repaint spectra blue, but I want the best possible paint on the front end so that it has a prayer of holding up.

What would you recommend?
 

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Originally posted by slidr



1. Should I go with the Chroma Premeir series of paint?

2. Should I get a value shade sealer (never heard of this before)?

3. Should I not even say clear base? Should I just get the base color matched?


1-It is completelly up to you and your budget,Chroma Premeir is Top of the line ,but VERY expensive .Duponts Regular Chroma line is a very good cost effective alternative .I like actually like Duponts regular Chroma line Better than PPG's Concept line .

2- depends on how its prepped like I said before ,but it is somewhat recommended

3- Yes dont say Clear base ,their is no such thing unless you are talking about a pre - pearl or Kandy Mid coat .


sinc:Kenny Heiser
 

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Originally posted by Jesse IL
Kenny, I want to get some repainting done this spring on my car. I have had no big problems with the sides and everything, but the paint on the front end just goes to hell in no time. I'm gonna repaint spectra blue, but I want the best possible paint on the front end so that it has a prayer of holding up.

What would you recommend?
what exactlly do you mean by goes to hell??? it chips easilly ,peeling ,fades,clear coat looks dull etc,etc,etc???


sinc:Kenny Heiser
 

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If its Chiping (or pealing) it might be in the prep job underneath the paint ? Bugs Should not get embedded in the clear coat or base coat though??? Perhaps they over reduced the clear and it never cured to its full build ? If you are wondering what material I recommend I of course would have to say the Dupont Chroma Premeir line ,with the 4500s or 7500s clear . If prepped correctlly underneath , Bugs should never do any harm to it and bugs should be easilly taken off . Their is not much you can do about rock chips however? I do beleive Dupont 's urethane clears (like 4500s or 7500s) have a higher build and durability to them over PPG,Sikkens,or Spees .That is just my Personal opinion though , from expereince .I would say if you want the best and are not worried about spending a bit more on materials , then Dupont Chroma Premeir is the only way to go . Most Dupont certifeid shops run the regular Chroma line .You might have to ask them to run Premeir materials on your ride.

also 3M clear bra might be something to look into.


sinc:Kenny Heiser
 

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Has anyone heard of Glassurit? I know Mercedes uses this type of paint on all of their vehicles but I was wondering if anyone else on the board has experience with this paint. I am doing as JesseIL is over the summer. I want to get the front end of my car repaired, filled, and repainted.
 

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I suspect the prep job. In fact I can say almost for certain that it is inferior. Of course I understand that rock chips happen, but they seem to accumulate very fast with whatever's on there. They chip to a white surface underneath...not sure if that's the factory primer or just just crap built up in the chip. Like I said, bugs literally get embedded in the paint. I've clayed the front end and still they don't come out. Basically there are permnent dull spots in the front end and hood from bug splatters. The surface is smooth, but the finish is discolored. The owner of the shop who has painted the car literally told me, "We use lower quality paint, but the quality of the paint isn't the most important factor, its how you spray it." My roommate's car is painted from teh same place, but he paid for their "show" finish, which is HOK paint and extra attention to prep (supposedly). Even on a fiberglass front end, his paint seems much more durable and does not suffer from the insect problems that my car does.

Also, what is the difference between the 4500s and 7900s clears?
 

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Originally posted by DopeCelicaGT
Has anyone heard of Glassurit?
Glasurit is a sister company of BASF & R-M . It is used on pretty much every european car because of the VOC regulations in Europe .I have used both BASF & R-M line of paints .They are OK materials but their whole prep/paint system is a little confusing & azz backwards if you ask me. I have Not used the Glasurit system though ???

It is a waterbased paint and not a solvent based paint .Which is why European cars use it .The State of California also has VOC regulations against solvent based paint ,so it is used their alot as well .

Personally in school and training , I've always been told that a solvent based paint system is ALWAYS superior to a waterbased paint system . Ive had training in water based paints and I have some minimal use with them . They are a pain in the azz IMO, they spray exactlly like water and have barelly any consistancey to them . Plus it took about 4 coats for complete coverage .In the past couple years water based paints have supposeddelly become better ,and Glasurit is supposed to be the best of the bunch. PPG and Dupont make their own water based systems as well ,but I have no exsperience with them ???

Unless you live in california and have to use a waterbased paint I would not want that crap on my car . I actually know of people in cali going outside the border to get their car painted with solvent based paints .


Originally posted by Jesse IL
I suspect the prep job. In fact I can say almost for certain that it is inferior. Of course I understand that rock chips happen, but they seem to accumulate very fast with whatever's on there. They chip to a white surface underneath...not sure if that's the factory primer or just just crap built up in the chip. Like I said, bugs literally get embedded in the paint. I've clayed the front end and still they don't come out. Basically there are permnent dull spots in the front end and hood from bug splatters. The surface is smooth, but the finish is discolored. The owner of the shop who has painted the car literally told me, "We use lower quality paint, but the quality of the paint isn't the most important factor, its how you spray it." My roommate's car is painted from teh same place, but he paid for their "show" finish, which is HOK paint and extra attention to prep (supposedly). Even on a fiberglass front end, his paint seems much more durable and does not suffer from the insect problems that my car does.

Also, what is the difference between the 4500s and 7900s clears?
when you get it redone just make sure all the old paint that you are having problems with its completelly stripped and DA'ed off . You dont want none of that crap under the new materials . Then pay alittle more and get some good materials like I said . Alot of the paints durability is in the prep Job , but Good high quality materials are always a plus . Cheaper lesser quality base coats & clear coats have LESSER build,adhesion, durability,weather resistance , fading ,and shrinking propertys . It almost sounds like the clear coat was over reduced or something , A good quality clearcoat wont discolor with bug guts ? Not really sure what that guy means by "how you spray it " ? That has nothing to do with the quality of the paint . You can spray crap paint GOOD but its still crap paint ,if you spray it BAD its still Crap paint ????


As for clear coats,4500s & 7900s are both high production clears . They are essetially the same , they both have very high build (only two coats ) .They both Flow and lay-out Very nicelly .They both have all of Duponts biggest copyrighted technologys ,So you get maximum protection,durability, shine , etc ,etc,etc with them . The shop using them will have to decide witch is right for them , depending on their Booth set up (cross-flow,or down draft) ,and production effeciency etc . Both are VERY good clear's though .

If you really dont mind spending a bit more you can get DuPont
 

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Excellent Kenny, finally someone who knows something about paint. Do you have a shop you would recommend or do you yourself do paint work? If my shop is unwilling to cooperate with me, I think I'm going to be forced to look elsewhere.

Would you suggest doing the prep myself to save money?
 
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