[sm4k]

Sorry for the short notice, but there's going to be a pretty interesting event at the site of Nationals this weekend in Topeka.

Here.

The last day to sign up for it is... tomorrow. It's a Duel Solo, so it should be pretty damn fun, as I've never done one of those before. There's a test and tune on Saturday, that people are saying that since there's such a low turn out for it, each person might get 6 runs on each side, for a total of 12 runs for a $35 entry fee (Both day SCCA Member Price)!! And then there's the event on Sunday. I hope some of you want to venture out.

 

[sm4k]

Damnit!

So I went out and raced here, it was fun (for a little while) as the test and tune day was driving the nationals south course, and I had some Azenis that I bought used that I was really enjoying the feel of (First auto-x event on non-dunlop street tires)--then it happened.

Some people said they heard it on my 5th run, but I didn't hear it until just after I had started my 6th. A ****ing ticking noise when I was gas'in it.

As soon as I heard the noise I stopped racing and began to just get through the course and out of the way. A friend of mine that was working runner showed up because he heard the noise as I drove past a corner he was helping out at. We drove the car back over to where all of our **** was and began to diagnose. First thing we did was check the oil. There wasn't a drop of it on my dip stick. Now, on one hand I really feel like an idiot for not checking my oil levels more often, but on the other hand, I never expected a 2000 ANYTHING with just past 50,000 miles to burn so much oil between changes that I could damage my engine. He happened to have a half a quart of Mobil One 5w-30, which is what I had in the car originally. He put it in, and there still wasn't anything on the stick. We made a run to O'Reily's (in his car) and bought 4 more quarts just to see exactly how low I was. It took 2 more full quarts to get the oil back up to where it was supposed to be. I have no idea how long I'd been low on oil, let alone how long I'd been 2 and a half quarts low. It had only been 2800 miles since my last change (acording to trip-odometer B), I had changed it myself, but after the initial first couple days of 'oil spot' check to make sure I wasn't leaking, I just kept an eye on the tripodometer to make sure I wouldn't miss a change. People have told me that I occasionally leave a little bit of black **** behind when I launch, but that didn't seem to be out of the ordinary from what I've seen at autox events, and besides, I thought oil burn smoke was blue?

In anycase, I had several people who know their **** listen to it, and everyone seemed to agree that it's probably a rod bearing in there making all the racket, and I'm looking at a new engine if I'm wanting to 1) keep racing with that car and 2) avoid a whole mess of future engine 'surprises' even after I get this intial problem fixed.

Now, all of the 'How come I didn't get a CEL if I was burning that much oil?' and 'Shouldn't I have gotten an oil pressure light way before now?' questions aside (the engine still looks plenty clean, and there still aren't any spots where I park my car both at home and at work, so I'm assuming I burned it off), anyone have any suggestions? The car is a March 2000 Celica, but I bought it used from an individual, so I was thinking about checking into a possible 5 year warranty, but I'm going in with the impression that not only will I be struck by lightening first, but that I will be holding a first place Nationals trophy when it happens.

I've heard that some people have had issues with early 2000 Celica's and MR2's having problems with the piston rings, creating a problem that would lead to this. The car is still in Topeka, and I never jacked it up to really look at the underside after this happened. One of the dispatchers there was nice enough to work out a place for me to stash it for a week (after making a joke about blowing it up if it's still there--wait, this is an active military base, he probably wasn't joking), since I was having a problem getting a truck/trailor up there to bring my baby home.

I'm already pretty determined that I'm just going to get a new engine, and either hold on to this one and some day (in a dreal world) bore it out and make it a high compression engine, or seeing what all is in there that can be parted out. It sucks that it happens, but I should have been more on top of things as important as oil level. I'm not completely stuck, because I've got a job that pays well enough that it won't be out of commision long. I've got a garage to store it in while it waits for the money to put it in the shop, and I can dust off my old 91 Toyota Pickup to drive in the mean time. Expensive lesson learned. Recommendations? Experiences? Annecdotes?

 

[autxr]

Use the '91 pickup to tow it home (on a dolly).

Pretty sure Conkiller fried a bearing in his car and replaced it with the engine in the car, you might want to PM him and ask what he did to deal with it.

Early MR2's did have a problem with engine reliability but it was due to faulty catalytic converters (it is a two cat system and the first cat was falling apart, clogging the 2nd cat).

Scott

 

[sm4k]

Well the truck has 235,000 miles on it, and isn't in the best shape as it is--last thing I need is two dead cars, and having to get both of them home. On top of that, it's only a 4 cylinder, so I bet it would get some pretty mean gas mileage all the way back to the far side of KC. I'd probably save money overall renting a bigger truck from Enterprise w/ the insurance, and 'forget' to mention I'd use it for towing. My uncle has a trailer big enough to fit the whole car on, and I'm going to see if he'll let me borrow it for a weekend in exchange for a couple of cases of beer

 

[freshspecblueGT]

My engine ate a rod bearing and the same way and was replaced by Toyota under warranty at 47K. I think there have been a few GT's (I'm guessing) that have gone south in the same manner. 4 years and 50,000 miles your still under the 5/60K powertrain warranty. So fill it up with oil make sure it just looks like a daily driver take it in to the dealer and cross your fingers. On mine they replaced to block and all has been well for the past 40K miles, just a lot more religious about checking that oil. Besides you got to figure the engine stood up pretty well if it took 5 runs with no oil in it to kill it.

Good luck

Ross

 

[freshspecblueGT]

As far as the ring problem I heard some one mention that the part number for the block assembly changed at some point and there was some speculation as to whether the rings and pistons were updated in the the new assemblies. But that was idle internet chatter so who knows but since I had mine redone it hasn't used a drop of oil.

 

[sm4k]

4 years and 50,000 miles your still under the 5/60K powertrain warranty. So fill it up with oil make sure it just looks like a daily driver take it in to the dealer and cross your fingers.

I wasn't sure the car had any warranty left at all, that does give me some extra hope for getting it fixed sooner. As far as making it look like a dailly driver, that will be simple. Only mods on the car are tires + basic little visual things (side markers and antenae). Think I should yank my little newcelica.org vinyl?

 

[freshspecblueGT]

Think I should yank my little newcelica.org vinyl? [/B]

Could be seen as a bit paranoid but it makes it easy for them to track down... Oh I don't know this thread where you explain how it happened ie. during an AutoX event

Make sure it is topped of with oil when you take it in. Don't let them BS you into needing to tear the engine down for a diagnosis. Its fairly easy to tell that the sound is coming from the block all they need to do to is pull the pan to see the bearing failure.

In my opinion it was the little things that helped to get the job done under warranty, make it look like you take care of the car, clean inside and out and make sure since you do your own oil changes that you have proof that they were done. Toyota asked for that; in my case I provided my Log book that I kept with all my maintenance and when it had been done and that sufficed. The dealer actually commented on things like "we figured you would get covered since we can tell you take care of the car" more than once. Be nice remember they get a hundred a**hole shadetree mechanics in there everyday telling them their job, but don't let them walk on you either.

 

[ConeKiller]

Rod Bearings typically only go with a lack of oil pressure. The Celica oil pan is absolutely horrid when you are cornering. The baffeleing sucks at .7g's and above. Wen Toyota pulls the pan they will know exactly what the problem is.

They can very easily claim the problem was yours in that you didn't have enough oil in it. Rod Bearings damage from a lack of oil is very easy to spot. I PM'ed you with what I did. I would go to a reputable mechanic and have they try and fix it first. If the damage is greater then that, try and go back to the dealer.

By the way, I drove nearly 2000 miles and one ProSolo on my damaged Rod Bearings before replacing.

 

[Fastbrewer]

Don't drive the car!! Tow it home.

I had the same problem happen to me at a local event and tried to make it home 20 miles away and ended up with catastrophic engine failure. The local dealer did do the engine work under warranty. I got a new bottom end and a rebuilt top end (New cams, new vvt controller, new exhaust valves etc.. but no new intake valves which caused another problem later). The price would have been around $5000 but it was covered by toyota.

I check my oil twice a week now and if I regularly go into lift I am topping it off a little. If I drive conservative I don't have to add any extra oil. So during the summer auto-X season I am going through a lot of extra oil. The same thing was happening to a friend of mine with a matrix XRS.

If your dealer won't approve the warranty work take it to a good engine mechanic and order your parts through toyotas grassroots program and save some money. Your dealership service is probably $15-20 more than a private mechanic.

Good luck and TOW it home!!

 

[preparedcivic]

Ouch.

My 2000 GT has always burned a quart of 10-30 Mobil 1 every 1500 miles or so. Occassionally I'll get more, but also sometimes less. It seems to increase the more sustained highway driving I do, which makes sense since the motor is spinning a steady 3800rpm at 80. Never any smoke at all.

Even before getting the Celica, checking the oil at the event site before running was part of my prep routine. Something I'm a little anal about, and if it is any visible amount below the full line I'll top it off to just above. So far so good, I'm just short of 80k miles and nothing is different in the engine's performance. Actually, gas mileage is the highest it's ever been, though I think that's a result of finally having a tranny that isn't slowly grinding itself to pieces.

Do tow it home; U-haul used to rent pick-ups and dollys, and its only 70 miles from Topeka to KC. Easy 1/2 day there and back deal.

 

[sm4k]

-Update-

Ugh.

My celica is at the dealership now, no word from them yet, I only dropped it off last night.

I was able to put everything back to stock, everything from having my old dunlop street tires swapped with my Azenis down to putting the stock oil cap back in (and that aluminum one with the TRD logo made me so much faster ). But it just seems like absolutely nothing has gone my way since my engine had it's 'accident'.

A lot of thanks to three of my uncles and my dad, as I was able to get the car home free of charge (minus the purchase of a couple of cases of beer and a tank of gas in exchange for the use of a truck and trailor). But while loading the car on the trailor (this trailor is designed for tractors, not cars) I managed to 1) scrape the front end a bit when I was putting it on, and 2) bottom out in the center of the car taking it off, scraping off some of that under-body rubber-coating stuff. But I was able to get it home without any major problems. Once it was home I then proceeded to make it all stock again, replacing anything and everything that I ever touched back with a stock or like-stock part (replaced my k&n with a 'microguard' standard white filter-- that kind of stuff) I made sure it was still full of oil (it was, and there was no drips) and I had to leave it on jack stands over night to get my tires swapped out. I had a friend of mine do them (who also autocrosses), but he wasn't able to get me any kind of discount, so I paid them full price (doesn't matter to me, they charge a fair price, but it factors in later). I had paid them in advance, as I work till 6:30, and they close at 5, and my mom was nice enough to pick them up for me. This guy is a licensed mechanic, and he is not new to mounting/balancing tires. But somehow in the process of mounting mine, he bent one of my rims. He told me he had bent the rim, but that if I made it my rear right tire, I shouldn't have any problems with it. The wheel LOOKS fine to me, I couldn't see any bends in it, but what I could see is that there is (no exaggeration) something like 20 wheel weights on this rim now. I race on these wheels, and I was planning on just making them my race wheels, and I'd have a seperate set for my normal driving. (they're light enough for me now, and it'd let me put bigger wheels on it for daily driving without having to leave GS). Since I paid full price for the service, I should just act like a normal customer and be like 'wtf bitches' and atleast get my money back for the tire swap, as it's going to cost me about that much to replace that wheel. But at the same time, I don't want to push it too hard because it's a guy I know, that is a pretty good family friend. I also never took the celica on the highway after I had that done, because I was afraid of, you know, the engine seizing. So I don't yet know exactly how bad the damage on the wheel is, or if it is fine for highway driving.

I'm just pretty frustrated at this point, and the way things are going, Toyota will call me up as soon as I submit this and tell me that they won't cover it. I had to unexpectidly sink about $100 in the truck to make it reliably drivable again, and it could definately use another $100.

Sorry, I don't mean to make this a sob story, but I just feel the need to vent. I know that it could be alot worse, even if Toyota says 'no warranty', it could be alot worse.

Oh yeah, alot of thanks to the guys on Forbes Field for keeping an eye on my car for a week and not blowing it up.

 

[freshspecblueGT]

-Update-

Ugh.

My celica is at the dealership now, no word from them yet, I only dropped it off last night.

I was able to put everything back to stock, everything from having my old dunlop street tires swapped with my Azenis down to putting the stock oil cap back in (and that aluminum one with the TRD logo made me so much faster ). But it just seems like absolutely nothing has gone my way since my engine had it's 'accident'.

Wow you really went all out to make it look like a daily driver, Good luck hope everything works out for you. Do you have your service log ready if they ask for it? Let us know how it goes.

 

[sm4k]

Well I just talked to the dealership again, and I totally dodged a bullet. They said they are going to go ahead and fix it under warranty, they are going to replace the crankshaft, the 2 bearings that were bad, and while the engine is taken apart they are replacing my piston rings (which he said looked fine, but they were going to replace anyway) and 'probably your valve seal as well'. That is a COMPLETE load off my mind and is some good news I've been waiting to hear.

He thought they'd have it done by the end of next week. Time to change my sig and my avatar I guess

 

[freshspecblueGT]

Good to hear, enjoy the break-in period and check your oil!

 

[ConeKiller]

Which bearings were bad, do you know?

 

[sm4k]

They didn't tell me which ones were bad, but I'm going to call them tomorrow about the clutch, and I'll try and remember to ask.

About the clutch, I got home today and there was a message on my answering machine from them wanting to know if I wanted the clutch plate changed while they had it all taken apart. They said they'd do it at no labor cost, just the part cost. He didn't mention what that cost was, but I was planning on calling a couple of other toyota dealers tomorrow and ask them what they charge for the clutch plate over-the-counter then call this dealer back up, and if it's at a reasonable level to those prices (even if it's a bit higher, since I won't have to pay labor--and I haven't exactly been truthful with them about the circumstances of the 'incident') I'll probably go ahead and have them do that as well. The car has 53k miles, I bought the car with 43k, and I have no idea how the girl who owned it before me drove it (there was suspiciously an imprint in the carpet underneat the gas pedal) but I'm thinking it's a good investment. I'll see how much they are asking in the morning, I got home after they closed.

 

[B1mmer]

I assume they meant they would do pressure plate/disc/input shaft bearing. Have them do the whole thing, not just a pieces.

As for the carpet, well, the Toyota carpet is garbage if you autocross. I'm sure I'm not the only one with a major hole in the carpet near the accelerator. If I decide to return it to stock and sell it, I'll replace the carpet.

Glad to hear your car is going to be covered under warranty. - AB

 

[sm4k]

Yeah, they are replacing the clutch plate, the throw-out bearing, and the pressure plate, as well as resurfacing the flywheel. $200 for parts, and $80 to resurface the flywheel (they have to take it to NAPA). About $60 higher than what another dealership quoted me on parts, but I think paying $280 with all the work they are doing for me is not out of the question. He said it looked like my clutch had about 30% life left in it.

I didn't mean that there's a hole in the carpet, just that you could tell the car had been floored often enough to see the texture of the back of the pedal in the carpet--from a distance.

And I forgot to ask about the bearings :furious:

Thanks for the input and support everybody. I'm just hoping I can get it back in time to put enough miles on it to be able to drive the final autox event of the year.