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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So recently I've been doing a ton of work to my car as part of it's 150k semi-restoration, and among the procedures necessary for it was a coolant flush. This was mainly because as I was doing my Timing Cover Gasket, I needed to drain the coolant and discovered a strange white "slime" inside the coolant passages. Now, I've flushed the coolant twice in the last 50k, but I believe I did a subpar job both times for a few reasons:

1. I did not use strictly Toyota's Red or Pink Coolant. Instead, I used a weird blend of "compatible" coolants.
2. I performed the flush using a garden hose with a pressure nozzle, which isn't actually bad except,
3. I didn't flush the heater core the first time and,
4. I didn't evacuate the remaining water either time.

The only really important point to cover in this post is 1. See, Toyota recommends that we either use their coolant, or one that is equivalent to it. In this case, the coolant that is specified for our cars is one with either a "Phosphate Organic Acid Technology, that contains no silicates or borates", or a "Phosphate Hybrid Organic Acid Technology, that contains no silicates, borates, nitrites, or amines". These specifications represent Toyota's Long Life Coolant (Red) and Super Long Life Coolant (Pink) respectively.

BEWARE coolants that claim to be "Asian Red/Pink Compatible"! While all of these formulations seem to be silicate and borate free, most fail to be nitrite and/or amine free. This means that they DO NOT meet the specifications of SLLC (Pink), only those of LLC (Red). Further, there have been claims of ill-effects when Red and Pink are mixed, despite Toyota claiming in a TSB that they are fully compatible and that "Pink fully substitutes Red". While they are extremely similar to the point where you can seemingly use them interchangeably, it is not unreasonable to assume they may have unreported incompatibilities between them. After all, LLC is a POAT coolant, while SLLC is a PHOAT coolant.

I had 3 different brands of "compatible" coolants in my system (Toyota SLLC, Zerex Asian, and Peak Red/Pink). Strangely, Zerex and Peak have changed their labeling, as the containers I had claimed they were "silicate, borate, nitrite, and amine free", but the ones in stores seem to no longer be either nitrite and/or amine free (I can't remember exactly which, nor can I remember if they specified being POAT or PHOAT). With everything in mind, I have reason to believe that the white slime in my cooling system is a product of corrosion. It's possible the change in labeling means the aftermarket coolants were never SLLC compatible, and thus I effectively mixed LLC with SLLC. It's also possible the remaining old coolant and/or hose water from my subpar flushes were compromising my coolant's corrosion protection.

Even so, the coolants I used allegedly met SLLC's specifications, so they must have had some incompatibility that compromised my corrosion protection. It's likely that the "H" in PHOAT is the key here. The difference between "Organic" and "Hybrid Organic" may result in reduced performance when mixed as the latter was formulated to be used without nitrites and amines. This means that compared to most coolants, they can work together better than with others, but in the long term there may be issues that arise from clashing chemical makeups. So far, I'm only aware of Zerex Asian, Peak Red/Pink, Valvoline Red/Pink, Pentosin A1, and Pentosin A4 as being compatible with Toyota's specifications. Of all of them, only Pentosin A4 meets the specifications of Toyota's SLLC, the rest only meet LLC.

Regardless, this post is merely to spread awareness about just how specific our coolant is. 2ZZ engines are clear to use both Red and Pink, but perhaps we should do our best to use one or the other whenever possible. I myself just purchased some Pentosin A1 since interestingly, even though it's a LLC clone, it is nitrite and amine free. My assumption is that since Pentosin A4 is a SLLC clone, it has a longer service life than A1. Either way, for my purposes it is perfect and I will see how it does. I'll maybe upgrade to A4 when my next cooling flush comes around for a comparison.
 

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The reason the white residue exists is because coolant as a spesific ph level, if it drops out of that level one way or another it corrodes the top layer of aluminum because it is a reactive metal. This is normal, best thing to do is use an coolant cleaning chemical which corrodes this top layer off and flush it out, green coolant is fine but i never suggest mixing any colors always do a complete flush one way or another.

Hope this helps

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
PH does play a part in it, but it's very important to remember that certain compounds are incompatible with not only our aluminum blocks, but also with the seals and gaskets used in them. This is why Toyota specifies things like "POAT, no silicates, no borates" initially, then later "PHOAT, no silicates, no borates, no nitrites, no amines". This is also why we should NEVER USE GREEN COOLANT in our engines. They simply do not have the proper formulation to ensure proper corrosion protection, seal compatibility, and service lifetime. They can even actively cause damage to blocks and seals, and in extreme cases create sludge (look up Dex-Cool gel). Always use Red or Pink coolants with the above specifications, and like you said, try to use just one or the other.
 

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Alluminum engines have been around along time they didnt do anything ground breaking when they built the 2zz other than adding lift. The seals and all the other items you mentioned are being used in hundreds of car models that use green coolant everyday by hundreds of thousands of drivers.

Iv been working in the automotive world for along time and done hundreds of coolant flushes including geo prisims, celicas, corolas, camrys, corvettes, poniac vibes and MANY other cars that use all alluminum engines and worked on them years afterward to see the results of many miles and many years of service life from green coolant.

Its no different then GM foricng oil companys to pay them BIG money to put their dexos badge on their oil which is no different then any other semi and full synthetic for dexos 1 and 2.

Now when it comes to HD trucks there is a difference in the coolant because they are designed to go 500k+ miles on their coolant the ph level is alot stronger and their coolant runs though some pretty nasty areas in their engines and aftertreatment systems Which does require very special seals to not get eaten up by the coolant.



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For 20 years the best corrosion inhibitor was made by Toyota. It was a small 250ml bottle. Then in about 97 they changed to bring out a long life coolant.

Now this discussion is getting all crossed up because technically a coolant is different to a corrosion inhibitor. Personally I would prefer and recommend a corrosion inhibitor instead of a coolant. But in my climate we don’t get freezing but do get lots of 40*c days. Still your coolant will only raise the boiling point about 10-15* above plain water.. which is not 100*c in a car because it’s under pressure.

in our play car we cannot run coolant or glycol on the track, water only. 24 hour event running close to flat with 4 drivers and 3 hour stints, the thing ran around normal temp the whole time. However corrosion plays merry hell if I let it sit with or without water between events.

so red or green shouldn’t matter so long as you never mix them.. but get the best corrosion inhibitor you can.. red or green , the coolant is just marketing.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Alluminum engines have been around along time they didnt do anything ground breaking when they built the 2zz other than adding lift. The seals and all the other items you mentioned are being used in hundreds of car models that use green coolant everyday by hundreds of thousands of drivers.

Iv been working in the automotive world for along time and done hundreds of coolant flushes including geo prisims, celicas, corolas, camrys, corvettes, poniac vibes and MANY other cars that use all alluminum engines and worked on them years afterward to see the results of many miles and many years of service life from green coolant.

Its no different then GM foricng oil companys to pay them BIG money to put their dexos badge on their oil which is no different then any other semi and full synthetic for dexos 1 and 2.

Now when it comes to HD trucks there is a difference in the coolant because they are designed to go 500k+ miles on their coolant the ph level is alot stronger and their coolant runs though some pretty nasty areas in their engines and aftertreatment systems Which does require very special seals to not get eaten up by the coolant.



Sent from my SM-S767VL using Tapatalk
The point here isn't that green coolant won't work, or will kill your engine in a few thousand miles. The point is the Toyota went through great lengths to create a fluid that performs to the standard they need it to. If green coolant was sufficient, Toyota would have just used that instead. They didn't do that because they knew that in the long term, it's more prudent to use a fluid that will do it's best to preserve the block and seals. I too have seen plenty of cars running green coolant when they shouldn't be. Sure, they run fine now, but in about 50k miles the gaskets are likely going to fail prematurely because the coolant ate them (I've seen this situation plenty of times). This is why GM had to change the materials in their gaskets when they introduced Dex-Cool, it chemically attacked them and caused frequent failures.

I understand the sentiment of big companies just pushing a product via marketing, but that ignores the fact that these companies design these fluids for a purpose and spend tons of money doing so. I mean, somebody should just tell them they can all just use green or something :LOL:. As @Sheik Ya Bootie pointed out, the corrosion inhibitors in each formulation is very important. Each company has different ways they make the same thing and because of this, they need to be extremely specific on the materials that make up their systems. The fact stands that Toyota clearly states the specifications a coolant requires for proper use in their engines. You can obviously use whatever you want, but long term effects come into question when you step outside the bounds.
 

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Toyota went to a long life red coolant because their rci was red. Well it was red until it started to turn brown.. then it became very acidic (?) and would corrode worse than plain water. Probably why they went away from it.. might have been about 2 year life..

Actually now I think even the current stuff has an 18 month life before it goes ‘off’
 
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