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Okay, So I have recently taken deliver of a 2005 Elise. It is amazing, although I am not impressed with the performance from 3500-6000. I also don't like haveing to run the hell out of the motor to get it to move. I have been in contact with several tuning companies, and there is one who wantes to develop a turbo kit for my car. He would prototype it on my car, and it would use the GT series 28 turbo. It would be light pressure and use stock internals. It would also use an air to water cooler. I believe that the ECU would be unichip and there would be two maps, one for 91 octane (even though I live in Texas and I can get 93) and 100 octane. The odea is to try to get 300 flywheel hp on the 100 octane map.

Does anyone know anything about this turbo and if so, do you think it is a good idea. The purpose of this is to increase the power range of the motor. However, with 300 hp and 1975 pound car the power to weight will be in a supercar territory. I am concerned with the air to water cooler system as a lot of people are not sure about its effectiveness and longevity. Also, The Elise fuel cut is 8600 RPM. Do you think that I shoudl let this company prototype the kit on my car?

In addition to this, he claims that with his tuning and new cams and intake exhaust he hopes to generate around 40 NA hp out of this engine. Does this seem plausable to any of you? He said mapping alone got him about 15 lb-ft at something like 3500 RPM. Is that realistic?

My main concern is the poor performance in the mid range. I Think my car would be best served with a bump in the mid range instead of more top end. Please tell me what all of you think. I am not an expert on this engine, and as such do not know all of its weak points. I thought that the "pros' on this forum would have the best information about the car and the durablilit of the engine after it is modded and/or turbo'ed.
 

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C2 gas is using the same turbo, garrett gt28rs (disco potato) on the 2zz motor. There are no cams avail for the motor. Someone stated that the cores have not been released. But the car stock is as fast as an EVo in the 13s.
 

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Originally posted by Mean tt
In addition to this, he claims that with his tuning and new cams .
Well......I had nothing to say until I read this sentence.....THERE ARE NO CAMS FOR THE 2ZZ Engine
 

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RUN AWAY!!!!

These people don't know the 2zz engine, and the engine can easily be destroyed with the 11.5:1 compression ratio that it comes with stock.

If you want a turbo kit, wait for C2 or XS to come out with one, I'm sure both will be working on one within the year. Also the 2zz's tranny is weak and probably won't last long with 300 whp.
 

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advise #1 dont go back to that place.

advise #2 no cams available yet for the 2zz

advise #3, with the aluminum underskin you will have a hell of a time keeping everything cool with a turbo kit and water to air you would need a secondary radiator for long term track use, which would add a cociderable amount of weight.

It appears lotus modified the engine bay to fit around the 2zz intake and exhaust manifolds, if the exhaust manifold is the same I would first look into purchasing a header, DC sports sells a 2zz header for about 260.00 and on a stock engine it provided some nice gains nearly 10whp peak. Since the elise is so lightweight this would make a large difference.

from the pics stan provided (another elise owner) the intake box is drawing fresh air, I'm sure a company will be providing a cone style filter element very soon, but in the mean time it seems like the air box is a toyota unit and as such you should be able to utilize a K&N drop in filter or TRD air filter for 1-2hp,

If unichip stands the test of time, that would be another viable option for modifying the ecu, and if you can tune the variable valve timing(VVT) with the unichip it would be very possible to provide the low end and midrange power your seeking with VVT tuning. On our cars we were able to significantly increase midrange power as well as top end power with the apexi power fc (a stand alone engine management ecu for the celica).

It appears the elise has different connections on its wiring harness so the power fc (pfc) may not be a direct plug and play. If you could get a wiring diagram and starting rewiring the main harness you could "in theory" attach the elise wires to the correct pins and make the pfc work.

That is however quite a bit of work if you go that route.

Just to reiterate, I would get a drop in replacement filter,
*and purchase a DC sports header, and modify my engine bay if neccessary to accomodate the new header design.

I wouldn't go turbo in the elise, its so lightweight if you go n/a with an aftermarket ecu or piggy back and good tuning should get you the power output your looking for.

With the pfc on our cars with a cold air intake and exhaust, we have been able to get as high as 184whp and 134wtq.

that same car in a celica prepped for the dragstrip (with 170ishwhp) ran a [email protected] with a 2.1 60'. Estimated race weight of 2350 (without driver).

According to my calculations (i'm getting an elise very soon)
at a race weight of 1900lbs and a 1.8 60' with 170whp should be able to run [email protected] with favorable weather conditions.
 

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Originally posted by m.aurelius
C2 gas is using the same turbo, garrett gt28rs (disco potato) on the 2zz motor. There are no cams avail for the motor. Someone stated that the cores have not been released. But the car stock is as fast as an EVo in the 13s.
Well, actually.... there are 2 models. the GT28R, good for 250-270hp(IMO not worth to go this way) worth around 700$ and the GT28RS model worth 1100$.

I did alot of research with the C2til and we are convinced this turbo is very good application for the GT-S. Calculations and the compressor map gave us the impression that this baby will rock you at high boost :O
So, thinking about reinforcing the engine internals is a must if you plan to go full with this turbo. Of course, C2Power is now working on a stage 1 GT-S kit. Keep an eye out on the F/I forum for periodically updates on the kit.


Bing
 

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Discussion Starter #8
00silverGTS6spd said:
:rofl: that guy is so full of it.
I hope that was not directed at me. If so, you can see pics of the car on another forum. Since I was not good at hosting pics, a guy there did it for me. take a look at these.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=98901&page=2

and this page.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=98901&page=3&pp=15

Another question, how do you tink this guy is claiming to have developed cams, if no blanks are available? I think that he redesigned the low RPM cam, but again, I can't seem to find any information on this guy from the web. I am becoming more than a little suspicious....

Also, how is the reliability of the 2zz-ge once it is using FI either a supercharger or turbocharger on stock internals?
 

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The Celica community have been boosting safely at 6PSI on the 2ZZGE engine. The cilinder walls are made from aluminium, so strengthening the engine is adviced. Just make sure the tuning is done properly and don't run too lean... knock can throw your engine a rod.
 

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Mean tt said:
I hope that was not directed at me. If so, you can see pics of the car on another forum. Since I was not good at hosting pics, a guy there did it for me. take a look at these.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=98901&page=2

and this page.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=98901&page=3&pp=15

Another question, how do you tink this guy is claiming to have developed cams, if no blanks are available? I think that he redesigned the low RPM cam, but again, I can't seem to find any information on this guy from the web. I am becoming more than a little suspicious....

Also, how is the reliability of the 2zz-ge once it is using FI either a supercharger or turbocharger on stock internals?
I'm sure lucky was talking about the shop owner who said that he has manufactured cams, wheres the jerk avitar :jerkoff: there it is.

under low boost 6psi or so they seem to be pretty reliable, when properly tuned. The problem lies in that once you make 6psi people tend to up the boost, which will then cause alot of increased wear and tear.

Imho I'd rather have a custom blower for the 2zz over a turbo. I like instant throttle response :D
 

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Mean tt said:
Okay, So I have recently taken deliver of a 2005 Elise. It is amazing, although I am not impressed with the performance from 3500-6000. I also don't like haveing to run the hell out of the motor to get it to move. I have been in contact with several tuning companies, and there is one who wantes to develop a turbo kit for my car. He would prototype it on my car, and it would use the GT series 28 turbo. It would be light pressure and use stock internals. It would also use an air to water cooler. I believe that the ECU would be unichip and there would be two maps, one for 91 octane (even though I live in Texas and I can get 93) and 100 octane. The odea is to try to get 300 flywheel hp on the 100 octane map.

Does anyone know anything about this turbo and if so, do you think it is a good idea. The purpose of this is to increase the power range of the motor. However, with 300 hp and 1975 pound car the power to weight will be in a supercar territory. I am concerned with the air to water cooler system as a lot of people are not sure about its effectiveness and longevity. Also, The Elise fuel cut is 8600 RPM. Do you think that I shoudl let this company prototype the kit on my car?

In addition to this, he claims that with his tuning and new cams and intake exhaust he hopes to generate around 40 NA hp out of this engine. Does this seem plausable to any of you? He said mapping alone got him about 15 lb-ft at something like 3500 RPM. Is that realistic?

My main concern is the poor performance in the mid range. I Think my car would be best served with a bump in the mid range instead of more top end. Please tell me what all of you think. I am not an expert on this engine, and as such do not know all of its weak points. I thought that the "pros' on this forum would have the best information about the car and the durablilit of the engine after it is modded and/or turbo'ed.
Whoever told you this knows nothign about the 2ZZ - do not take your car there.

I would reccomend talking to Stafford Fabrication or if you are in Europe C2Gas and see if they will prototype a kit for your car - both shops have experience turbocharging the 2ZZ
 

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I predict he lives in the states, since he has a 2zz elise, and i don't think that they are on sale over here yet.

For tha same reason it is almost impossible for us to develop a kit on that car.

Elise is a great car, i won't turbocharge it. The possibility to wreck it, and the aluminium chassis ( it is basicly unrepairable) woud make me freak out every time i boost it :crazy2:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well I decided not to go with the original company. They were offering me the parts for over 5,000 and said it "was a deal and they won't make any money on it." Now the same guy is offerning to give away the kit for free even though he tried to remove over 5,000 dollars from me a few weeks ago. I will be going with monkeywrench to do the job, plain and simple.
 

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C2til said:
I predict he lives in the states, since he has a 2zz elise, and i don't think that they are on sale over here yet.

For tha same reason it is almost impossible for us to develop a kit on that car.

Elise is a great car, i won't turbocharge it. The possibility to wreck it, and the aluminium chassis ( it is basicly unrepairable) woud make me freak out every time i boost it :crazy2:
Right. With a car that weighs that little, why not go the weight reduction route?

Granted, the car already has drastic weight reductions already applicated to it, but there is still some **** you can do without, and some stuff that you can get lighter replacement parts for.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
slidr said:
Right. With a car that weighs that little, why not go the weight reduction route?

Granted, the car already has drastic weight reductions already applicated to it, but there is still some **** you can do without, and some stuff that you can get lighter replacement parts for.
If you don't have the car, or haven't seen it, you can't say anything like that. There is nothing I repeat nothing you can really do. You can remove the radio and the AC, posibly replace the glass with lexon, remove all carpeting and buy a new exhaust which costs almot 1000 dollars after it is installed because it is a Lotus part. That exhaust removes 11 pounds, and with a 10-1 lb to hp ration, you effectivly gain 1 hp. A turbo is the way I want to go not because I want to go faster encessarily, but because of my driving style. When I am on the highway, I don't necessarily like to go from 6th to 3rd to pass someone. The little engine is peaky, and all I am realy trying to go for is a more realistic powerband. If I only gain 35 peak hp, fine so be it. As long as I gain 40+ lbft of torque, I will be happy. Ideally I would like to be able to keep the car as a daily driver, and a mild turbo set up would acomplish that goal better than removing what is left of an already small car. Rememver the car weighs 1975 wet, with all fluids and gas. That is in stark contrast to most manufacturers who weight their cars dry.

The best way to lighten the load is for me not to be in it, but what is the fun in that?

P.S. Yes I live in the states. I am more than happy to live half a world away from France, but if anyone knows a palce farther away let me know.
 

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You could also just go with a pfc. The gains arent as huge as a turbo but it seems to straighten out the torque and hp curves pretty well and costs much less. As far as s/c's the blitz sc for the celi is a clutch type so it is only in use when you are accelerating. BTW nice car.
 

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dmaxd03 said:
You could also just go with a pfc. The gains arent as huge as a turbo but it seems to straighten out the torque and hp curves pretty well and costs much less. As far as s/c's the blitz sc for the celi is a clutch type so it is only in use when you are accelerating. BTW nice car.
pfc wont work with out lots of re-wiring.

its not the same harness / connections on the elise
 

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Mean tt said:
When I am on the highway, I don't necessarily like to go from 6th to 3rd to pass someone. The little engine is peaky, and all I am realy trying to go for is a more realistic powerband.
with all due respect the elise sounds like it wasn't the right buy for you.

the engine can handle 3rd gear downshifts to pass people just fine, at its wet weight it will accelerate enough to pass someone in 6th 5th or 4th.

I'm not quite sure your reasoning for wanting a turbo, you'll still need to downshift to accelerate around someone while crusing in 6th, whats 2 more gears, but a flick of the wrist
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Illusive said:
with all due respect the elise sounds like it wasn't the right buy for you.

the engine can handle 3rd gear downshifts to pass people just fine, at its wet weight it will accelerate enough to pass someone in 6th 5th or 4th.

I'm not quite sure your reasoning for wanting a turbo, you'll still need to downshift to accelerate around someone while crusing in 6th, whats 2 more gears, but a flick of the wrist
With all due respect, your argument could be extrapolated to mean that there is no reason to modify any car. I think that the real "crime" that I committed was to mention that torque not hp are my real goals. I do not want to start a flame war, but my guess is that you ahve never seen an Elise up close, let alone driven one.

In any case, the high cam hits hard enough (in an ELISE) that if you are driving the car at 90% and not prepared for the high cam, you can and will disrupt the car and possibly bring the back end around. That is why a smoother transition and the ability to keep the car under better control are attributes that I am seeking. I do not want to make the 6200-8600 RPM even more pronounced with no support to the lower RPM.
 

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I have a built 9k rpm 2zz/6 speed LSD in my mr2 spyder. What you need is the ability to tune the engine (apexi PFC or the like). The 2zz is lean and down on timing right before the cam change. According to the dynos I have seen lotus didn't do much with the ecu. So there is still some power there.

The extra heft of the spyder (there is something I never thought I would say) may keep the car from upsetting but I think it is more in line with the tune than the dynamics of the car.

I would NEVER let a company do a prototype on my car. It always takes 3-5 times longer than expected and cost 2-3 times as much. They will invaribly f-something up scratchs, scuffs, dent etc.

If it is instant v8 torque you want I would think about a supercharger before a turbo. My .02

This should make for an interesting read.

http://monkeywrenchracing.com/mwr_celica_gts.html
 
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