NewCelica.org Forum banner
21 - 37 of 37 Posts

·
00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
Joined
·
4,137 Posts
Okay, I am a fvcking idiot -- how the hell does the multiquote function work? Grrr...
x2...

But what you also have to realize is that the e-manage ultimate + v-manage + f-manage combination is the cheapest route to coming close to standalone ECU territory. For UNDER $1500, you will have this OBD-II compliant setup that's only an additional $150 away from adding in a MAP sensor and MAP sensor harness to run MAP tuning, just like the high end standalone ECU's (Hydra and AEM). In case you guys haven't noticed...the PWND dollar rose up the damn price of the PFC...unfortunately making the Boosted2.0 DBW PFC Harness + Apexi Power FC Standalone ECU + Datalogit Software route MUCH more expensive. It's so expensive, that the Hydra standalone ECU is now the middle ground! Here's the rundown:

$1600 - $1650 = E-Manage Ultimate + V-Manage + F-Manage + MAP Sensor + MAP sensor harness
$1700 = Hydra Standalone ECU
$1870 = Apexi Power FC + Boosted2.0 DBW PFC Harness + PFC Datalogit

One option is totally OBD-II compliant, another one comes with MAP tuning and is more advanced than the MAF based ones, and the final option has the most tuner base and basemaps to share MAPS with. At this point, if I wasn't already going to stay with the greddy route, I'd go with the Hydra, but when it comes to those damn Lotus DBW people, they only have the $3,400 EFI that needs an additional $1000 to make it idle right...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
You're preaching to the choir on this one.

The only way I'd toss the Greddy at this point is if a fully tunable toyota ECU suddenly became available (I recently thought of another sneaky way to accomplish this, but so far nothing to report... hint, GM ECU's are reflashable, and there are at least two amazingly user friendly tuning/reflash packages available...).
 

·
00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
Joined
·
4,137 Posts
I have a buddy who works in the electrical engineering industry, and who tried to gauge interest on lotustalk.com through dustylax to see about having his company work on the Lotus ECU and maybe see about sending an ECU over to India so his company can take advantage of some cheap outsourced labor, give those smart ass Indian people a challenge, crack the ECU, and create software to rewrite everything. Unfortunately...there wasn't that much interest in lotustalk.com to get this work done...much less have it done for himself...so that didn't bear to fruit.

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f171/complete-ecu-control-52978/

I can only imagine the Celica community will be just as bad...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
The easiest way would be to convince the EFI Live or VCM Suite/HP Tuner guys to add the Vibe and Vibe GT to their compatible vehicles list... can we say toss the PFC and its ilk in the garbage?

Auto guys like me would still need to wire the Vibe ECU in parallel, but the GM tuning/reflashing packages are waaaaaay better than any of the stand alone aftermarket ECUs.

That's assuming, of course, that the Vibe and Vibe GT don't just use rebadged Denso ECU's -- then it may not be possible to add them to their list, even if they are reflashable... of this I am unsure...
 

·
00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
Joined
·
4,137 Posts
I would assume GM wouldn't touch the ECU due to them wanting a car that can actually hold a resale value...sounds like a good investigation plan though...

And look at the crazies up at 3:30 AM thinking of these plans...nice thinking though! Even though it's a long shot...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I have a bad feeling that I'm not actually the first person to think of this, and that it can't be done...

I'll poke around on the Vibe boards to see if anyone thought of this before.
 

·
00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
Joined
·
4,137 Posts
Lookey lookey what's on sale :D

$591.65: http://www.rhdjapan.com/jdm-low/TRUST-GReddy-F-Manage-Main-Unit-Sensor-Set-2-5m-Harness-54128

TRUST GReddy F-Manage Main Unit Sensor Set 2.5m Harness
NOW ON SALE
You are viewing a brand new GReddy F-Manage Main Unit with the Sensor Set and 2.5 meter harness by one of the most innovative in all performance, TRUST/GReddy.

The GReddy F-Manage is a also known as the feedback control manager. It can be used in conjunction with the E-Manage from GReddy to more accurately tune the air/fuel ratio. This will lead to increases in horsepower and a cleaner burn. Feedback is given that is essential for tuning the finer points of your engine. Most beneficial on supercharged and turbocharged vehicles.

Included are the following:

-F-Manage Main Unit
-USB Cable
-CD-ROM
-Sensor Kit
-2.5 meter harness kit
I think after I learn how to tune over the winter, I might pick this up...might have to start up another business other than serving old people food to fund my new habit...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,069 Posts
going to need to make a custom basket setup to hold all 3 units. like a mini amp rack :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Don't think this ever went on sale in the states.

I no longer have my Celica, so I'm out of the loop.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
88 Posts
Hi Guys,

I know its an old thread, but finally managed to install a Greddy F-Manage and understand how it works together with EMU. In case somebody needs help, send me a private message.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
88 Posts
There was a request via PM to share more how this thing works, so I share some details for future reference to help others.

Programing via Greddy Ultimate tool. EMU and F-Manage can be connected via serial link so they can be manipulated from one tool in paralel.


Trust / Greddy F-Manage has 2 different ways of working:

Mode 1. if your car has a O2 type, 0-1Volt, narrow band front lambda sensor:
- in this case you need to have Greddy optional part number 15901650, this is the A/F sensor PCB which needs to be inserted into F-Manage main unit and also has a Bosch LSU4.2 wideband sensor with harness
- in this setup F-Manage will directly create O2 (narrow band) signal to feed factory ECU (OEM narrow band sensor signal needs to be isolated from OEM ECU completely) with the help of it's own wideband sensor and that small PCB

Optional PCB needed for Mode 1, very rare item. Production ended in 2013:


Mode 2. if your car has an A/F type, 0-5Volt, wideband front lambda sensor:
- in this case you dont need the A/F optional sensor board, part number 15901650. F-Manage will intercept and modify factory A/F sensor signals to fool factory ECU

My original questions, now answered by Trust / Greddy:
1. is wideband (A/F) signal from e-manage Ultimate transferred to F-Manage via serial link cable? - no it is NOT
2. Do i need to use Greddy optional part (15901650) to have F-Manage work on O2 (not A/F) sensor car or I can use Ultimate to transfer A/F signal to F-Manage? - yes, as per above, F-Manage needs optional PCB part to create narrow band sensor feedback based on it's own internal wideband signalling protocol.
3. If I need a replacement A/F wideband sensor for F-Manage with A/F optional board can I buy a standard Bosch LSU4.2 wideband or only Greddy made wideband sensor is going to work? - yes normal Bosch LSU4.2 will work
4. If I connect rear O2 signal (RO2 1) F-Manage will simulate a signal such way that ECU cannot detect A/F is eg. 12.5:1 instead of 14.7:1? For example to avoid check engine light P0420 (catalyst below effiency). - yes
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
88 Posts
Basically F-Manage manipulates O2 / AFR signal going to factory ECU to provide closed loop AFR modification and therefore it is capable to minimize the fight between EMU and factory ECU in closed loop. It is capable to set for example mixture to 12.0:1 by sensor manipulation such way you have no fuel trim issues.

Its even working nicely at idle, where Toyota ECUs are a nightmare to work with, I have no problem to set idle even at 12.0:1. :)

F-Manage has crank signal, RPM and airflow meter inputs.

EMU via serial link can transfer Greddy MAP sensor input and if needed RPM / TPS signal so F-Manage sees these and it can make corrections based on these values as well.

F-Manage has a WBO output option port as well towards any other electronic device like EMU.


F-Manage jumper settings:


F-Manage wiring for factory O2 sensor (0-1V):


F-Manage wiring for factory A/F sensor (0-5V):
this sensor is typically used in USDM cars 200x-2006, then introduced in EUDM and JDM around 2008-2010.





Greddy EMU Auto tune and corresponding F-Manage closed loop control to minimize LTFTs. In this example I have EMU and F-Manage connected with serial link, so F-Manage sees Relative Pressure (kg/cm2) values, which are wired into EMU originally:


F-Manage can be connected to the second lambda sensor (after catalyzator) and can automatically create signals to avoid any P0420 type CELs. When you command 12.0:1 AFR in closed loop and the factory ECU would throw a CEL due to secondary lambda sensor giving unusual readings, F-Manage modifies signal for secondary sensor automatically.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
88 Posts
Recently a forum member here asked for help, how to calibrate wideband sensor first used with F-Manage. Here is a "how to" guide based on original japanese F-Manage manual.

Initial calibration:
0. see if you have put PCB into F-Manage at Sensor1 or Sensor 2 slot.
Example: if you put PCB board to Sensor1 place, then your wideband sensor cable should be connected to Sensor1 input port on F-Manage and configure dip switch on F-Manage to use Sensor1: so set Sensor1 input to "USE" and Sensor2 to "NOT USE"

1. make sure engine did not run for hours (fuel vapours leave cylinder), if you cannot have many (4+) hours since engine has been run, remove factory EFI relay and use your starter motor to move cylinders for 1-2minute total time in short 20 second intervals, this will refresh air in cylinders
2. even better if you remove sensor from exhaust system
3. give ingnition so F-Manage switches on while sensor cable is disconnected
4. active LED should be fast blinking red and when you connect laptop to F-Manage it should say: "heater circuit open"
5. switch ignition off
6. connect wideband sensor cable
7. switch ignition on so F-Manage switches on
8. active LED should start blinking slowly for around 30 seconds (sensor will get hot, beware)
9. after that active LED should be constant on (sensor will get hot, beware)
10. there is a small "CAL" push button between Sensor1 and Sensor2 input connection, press it
11. this small CAL button will start blinking
12. wait until it turns solid orange after 2-3 seconds
13. switch ignition OFF
14. put sensor back to exhaust

whenever you insert a new sensor or calibration goes off (might happen in 3-5-9-12 months) then repeat steps from above:
1. or 2.
then: 7,8,9,10,11,12, 13

Do step 14 if you did step 2

"CAL" button for sensor calibration between Sensor 1 and Sensor 2 wideband input ports.

54436
 
  • Like
Reactions: celi1132

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Sorry to revive a dead thread here. Any chance anyone knows the pinout for Sensor 1 & Sensor 2 as mine didn't come with that particular harness.

Cheers!

Electronic instrument Audio equipment Gadget Musical instrument accessory Font
 
21 - 37 of 37 Posts
Top