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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
im thinking of doing a fwd swap to rwd and putting in a 3sgte engine or a supra engine.. does anyone know the cost/measures it takes for this type of large scale job? if anyone had done it i would be very happy if you would share your opinion about it/how much it was.. also how does the celica handle that sort of power? thanks much

-chris
 

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Why don't you just buy a RWD car? The amount of work needed to swap the motor & drivetrain would cost more than the car is worth. It's a dumb idea.
 

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Anything is possible, if you do not have a vague knowledge how hard or expensive this is you do not have the funds to do so.
Lets say putting a 3SGTE in a 7th gen already cost you around $10,000 putting a 2jz in there would be even more than that. Since it is such a big block to keep it from being front heavy, you will need to cut into the firewall maybe extend almost to the passenger compartment. Then do a RWD conversion and consider transmission adapting to this configuration...
It would be cheaper buying a Supra TT
 

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Let's put it this way. I was going to do this for about a year, until I found out that it would run me about $10k and I have the engine already and mad hookups. So if you were starting as just a regular consumer, expect to pay about $20-25k. A 3S will fit, a 2J will not. You will have to run a flat exhaust and use the tunnel for the drive shaft.
 

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For some reason, this is a somewhat emotional topic to most on this board, and it is difficult to get good info out of people, rather than rants like "just by a RWD car you dumbass". Let me try to add some data to the discussion.

I have been giving this problem a lot of thought, because the fact that the Celica is FWD is the only thing that really limits the potential of the car; so when I reached the point where I had to decide whether I would make non-reversible mods to my car or not, I asked myself "Can the Celica be anything else than FWD?" If yes, keep the car and mod away, if no, only reverible mods and trade in the future.

The decision I came to (and yours may be different) was to keep the car. I believe there are reasonable options (reasonable for my income) that will make the Celica a non-FWD car. Here are your choices:

1.) Engine Swap & RWD conversion
The trick with a RWD conversion is that the 2zz is in the wrong orientation (side/side rather than front/back). From what I have found out in researching this, it is easier to replace the engine with a RWD oriented motor (e.g. 3SGTE), than to rotate the 2zz (won't fit without major changes in the firewall metal). I did not like this option, because to me the 2zz engine is what gives the car its character - take it out and it isn't a 7th gen celica anymore.

2.) 2zz + AWD conversion
This is more challanging (=expensive), but you can retain the 2zz engine. The challange is to find an AWD tranny that will bolt up to the 2zz (with some custom machining) and not interfere with the exhaust manifold. The EVO VIII is a good candidate, but that engine (like the Eclipse GSX) has the exhaust manifold in the front, and intake in the back. The 2zz is flipped the other way. You would likely need a custom exhaust manifold as well, but that would be a good excuse to go turbo anyway. Purchase the flange from somebody like SF, then weld your custom piping to clear the space issue. Next you will need to rework the firewall and floor boards some to get the exhaust in place, and run the driveshaft down the center. The rear differential can be non-centered (shaft runs at an angle), which helps with the muffler, but you still need to clear the space interference between the exhaust manifold and the transmission. This is doable, but hard.

3) FWD + RWD electric hybrid
This is currently my favorite option. It isn't "easy" but has many advantages. You retain the 2zz & stock 6sp. Find a trashed Prius and salvage the electric motors & batteries. Batteries replace the rear seat (useless with a roll bar anyway), and electric motor goes where the spare is. All required metal work is in the rear (much easier than front), and the batteries will help balance the car. The electric motors have great torque at low speed (where the 2zz struggles), and at high speed the 2zz does the job just fine. Use an output signal on throttle position from the ECU to control the regulator to the rear motors. Now there's no exhaust relocation, no drive shaft, only wires for control run from the front to the back. This would make a dead-sexy car (a mini Toyota Volta), that together with a FI 2zz could push 350+ whp. If you want to get fancy, you can use SOFTWARE to do torque balancing between the front and rear (use auxilliary outputs from an aftermarket ECM with a piggy back to control the rear motors).

There are no guarantees in regards to driveability for any of these options, and yes you could buy a different car instead, but to me modding isn't about performance per dollar, it's about the challange of making a "slow" car "fast", and the satisfaction of seeing the face of the guy who drives the "fast" car after he got spanked by a little Celica. In any case, that should give you an idea of what you are up against.

PS: specs on the Prius motor
Peak Torque 258 lb./ft. 0-400 rpm
Power Output 33kW/44hp @ 1,040-5,600 rpm

that's wheel rpm, so +250 torque from a stand still (low end anyone?), and +45 hp up to 200+ mph (if the gasoline engine can get you there).
 

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branizzle said:
i just got a craving for asian food. maybe it's because the stench of RICE in here is so overwhelming.
fwd to rwd??????, Jesus, please save this soul.
Thats an astute comment coming from someone with four posts. How about you be a little more articulate and helpful rather than just calling someone a ricer. And since when would doing major modifications such as an engine swap and a drivetrain transformation make someone a ricer. I would draw associations to the term ricer more along the lines of someone who begins to mod their car with vinyl graphics and altezzas or anything made by APC to be more of a ricer.

To get more to the topic at hand I would say its a nice thought but within regards of cost you are looking at a hefty sum, doing most likely a 3sgte swap. Probably roughly $10k plus for just a stock 3sgte, then if you want to do internals and a turbo upgrade etc youre looking at even more. A more viable option would probably be to buy a 240sx and do either an SR20det swap or you could try something like a second generation rx7 or some other car which is already RWD which you could acquire at an inexpensive price and then begin to mod to build something you can drift or make a reasonably fast car out of, depending on what you're looking for. Hope that helps.
 

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The only thing I am going to add to this thread is yes, you can make the Celica RWD, and YES you can fit the 2JZ-GTE in the car. It will require MAJOR fabrication, read, tubular chasis. To make your car RWD with the 2JZ-GTE would easily set you back 20k - 30k, NOT including the cost of the engine. Basically, you'd get a rolling chasis that is ready for an an engine/transmission.
 

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i was thinking of doing this for awhile... even went around an priced it...(got laughed at too!!)

your looking at close to (or alil more) $18,000... plus cost of the engine


an will also need to get a smaller parts (ex: intercooler)

once when it is all done...
it will be around 25
 

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GTSnut said:
So if you were starting as just a regular consumer, expect to pay about $20-25k.
Jamasco (JMS003) quoted me $8000 for the swap (including the motor) and sticking to FWD. Converting to RWD would cost double. Unless it was an imposter using his SN on AOL. He also mentioned on this site that the cheapest price possible would be the former figure i mentioned above.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Originally posted by Nu Concept
Jamasco (JMS003) quoted me $8000 for the swap (including the motor) and sticking to FWD. Converting to RWD would cost double. Unless it was an imposter using his SN on AOL. He also mentioned on this site that the cheapest price possible would be the former figure i mentioned above.
you mind pming me with the site... see my whole idea behind this topic was to try and retain the celica body..(hopefully the chassis too), and swap a higher hp 4 cyl or 6 cyl in.... im thinking the 3sgte is my best bet because like u said above, its a major fabrication project to put the supra engine in, anyhoo, i have seen some 3sgte engines for like 3k or something like that.. *rebuilt* is the labor the big issue? if i wanted to do this, what is involved if i keep it fwd (cuz rwd, like u guys said is double), thanks all for responding it has been very informative.

-chris
 

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my rebuttal to the ricer comment is: if this person has to ask such a broad question, mentioning nothing about specifics or tech, then yes that's what i'd call a ricer. they're not just people who put neon lights under the chassis, and cut their springs, they are people of complete ignorance about theirs and other vehicles. which in this case, proves my point. if redline over here, put at least some of his ideas up on how this could be accomplished, and they made sense, then i would respect him. but there's a really big chance that he is never actually going to go through with this, considering the $, the difficulty, and the obvious lack of experience he has.
 

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voidhawk said:


I have been giving this problem a lot of thought, because the fact that the Celica is FWD is the only thing that really limits the potential of the car
You mean other than a dreadfully weak transmission and a lethally high compression ratio ?

The Celica is a FWD N/A car . . . . . treat it as such.
 

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for the price of doing any of these swaps, you could easily buid a 300-400hp 240 which would walk the celica day long and maintain daily drivability (i have quite a few friends that have less than $10k in their 240, are making well over 300hp, and drive their cars on a daily basis with very few issues). the idea is interesting, but that's way too much money to waste on something that will probably not work out all that well and sacrifice all your reliability and drivability.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Originally posted by branizzle
my rebuttal to the ricer comment is: if this person has to ask such a broad question, mentioning nothing about specifics or tech, then yes that's what i'd call a ricer. they're not just people who put neon lights under the chassis, and cut their springs, they are people of complete ignorance about theirs and other vehicles. which in this case, proves my point. if redline over here, put at least some of his ideas up on how this could be accomplished, and they made sense, then i would respect him. but there's a really big chance that he is never actually going to go through with this, considering the $, the difficulty, and the obvious lack of experience he has.
yes i do lack experience, but i dont lack imagination, persistance, and im not a ricer! i just asked the question to see what options i had, i did suggest the two engines and asked some of the pros and cons of it... really big chance im not going to go thru with this? i think not, A) im puttin in a 3sgte engine B)f/i on my gts engine... pretty much why i asked this was to see if anyone had ventured into the engine swapping/fwd-rwd conversion processes, and i got what i wanted, ideas/criticism.... so how does this make me a ricer again?
skatamatic[/i]
for the price of doing any of these swaps, you could easily buid a 300-400hp 240 which would walk the celica day long and maintain daily drivability (i have quite a few friends that have less than $10k in their 240, are making well over 300hp, and drive ....

i dont want a 240, they look ugly and are not my style...
 
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