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LS Integra vs GTS

1034 Views 22 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  ren0
Well, the turbo is off the car...After some very very long debating, I decided to pick up an all motor build. Car has never felt so slow, As it stands its just a jdm b18c with ctr cams mated to a b16 tranny (solid mid to low 14 second car). This is basically my engine as it stands minus the turbo. Did a compression test and got good results 250 across the board. Not bad for an engine that saw boost daily over 400 whp at one point. Now I had always wanted to race a GTS in a N/A b series because I hear often how monsterous they are in comparison to a NA b series. I ran into a very nice looking red GTS (one of the few without the hideous factory body kits) at a gas station. We talked for a bit (nice guy) and I asked him what's done to the 2zz, all the bolt ons pretty much and a tune (assuming PFC??). He didnt have any times but I asked him if he wanted to give the teg a go one time. He sees the boost guage and crome running in the car, I assure him its no longer boosted, and he says Ok. We take it to a very deserted , basically boondocks side of town road. He wants a roll (I want a dig). We agree to 3 runs, one dig , one 20 mph roll, and one 60 mph roll. From the dig he jumps out (Ima newb and still think Im driving a boosted car that cant be launched at 6k, so I launch at my usual 3.5k on the road). By 70 I start passing him and put about car and half between me and him by 100. 20 roll was worse by 100 i had a solid 2 cars. 3rd roll was supposed to be 60 to 120, but the guy said good races he didnt care for a third roll. We swapped numbers and I told him to keep in touch because I wanted to invite him to track day in Georgia when we went
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I rode in my buddies built h2b hybrid...Car just feels completely different than mine...Besides there are WAY too many boosted Hondas in the area...A fast boosted 4 banger has less wow factor than a N/A one
it has a jdm b18c but its in a DC4 (Non Vtec Integra). When I got my car it was a nonvtec autotragic integra
tdunn1981 said:
Nice races, sounds about right for a bolt-on GT-S. Was that closer than you expected it to be? How much WHP do you think you're putting down now that you're NA?
170 ish range...With the new p30 pistons (oem part to yield a 12.0 to 1 cr) and a set of skunk2 stage 1's, ill shoot for the 200ish range
diegoaccord said:
It's gonna take more than those 2 parts for 200 WHP. One step you can take is a PR3 head, and also you'll need a ITR IM. PCT Pistons, instead of P30. Gonna need bigger cams than S2S1.

Actually I kinda wanna get back into another Honda, but people are expecting me to trade my GT-S for stupid ****, like EG's, D series cars, and LS Tegs. Or B16 car with LS trannies. I did that swap(B16/LStrans) myself, and I will never drive a B series VTEC with an LS tranny again. My coupe ran 15.7 @91, thanks to LS trans.

im just going to leave it I WONT...because ive done it before...the pr3 head and the p72 flow differences are marginal...I got the flowbench if youre curious...PCT pistons arent needed and would yield a CR way too high on a p72 head...No offense but ive been doing it for a while...and know EXACTLY what im talking about

marginal...dunno where you got the idea the pr3 head walked over the p72...but it was wrong
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why would I do that when I could just use the crank and get the same effect ??? Either way I'm not trying to destroy the R/S right now...its neither c5 nor c1..the pistons are different...It yields a 10.6 cr stock
diegoaccord said:
That's the general consensus. ITR uses PR3, also. Of course factory ported. I wonder why they wouldn't use a ported P72. Oh well.

Frankens are ****ty, LSVTEC, or CRVTEC. Number one, the stock piston on each are ****ty for NA. This means you need to take it apart right off the bat. The R/S on B18A/B and B18C aren't that different, BUT non VTEC blocks don't have oil squirters, and other things for the motor to withstand 8000 RPM. Another point, frankens naturally have a lower power peak, with added displacement. Lastly B20 needs sleeved, no matter what.

There is a REASON Honda engineered a whole seperate 1.8 block for VTEC. Today I just turned down a Thunder Gray Metalic DC4, and he will throw in money for me to do LSVTEC. Hell with that, LS block, LS pistons, and LS tranny will result in a 16 second car.
The general consesus is also that longer gears are better for boost...but that doesnt make it right...And a nonvtec bottom end can see 8000 rpm with just replacement arp bearings and rod bolts...its been done all too many times...Not saying the vtec bottom end isnt better equipped from the factory...But to say the nonvtec block cant do it, is false. And I cant say I agree about the hybrids making generally less power..Maybe one built poorly, but just this summer we sent out an LS-VTEC that sailed easily to 235 whp all motor. More torque with same rpm will yield higher HP, thats mathematically proven
thats not the norm...generally a bolt on ls with a decent driver will see mid 15's... There arent enough low 15 second ones to call it a low 15 second car though.
diegoaccord said:
I didn't say power was decreased, I said PEAK of power. As in peak RPM that max HP is made. Where a stock B16 usually dyno max HP around 7800 (even though Honda spec sheet say 7600) LSVTEC usually makes it max HP around 7300, and B20VT at 7K flat. Displacement shifts the powerband down in the RPM range. what you get in torque, you lose top end. You can never have your cake and eat it...TQ or max RPM...
Actually, you shift where peak power is made by way of the head...IM packaging, Cam packaging, given the bottom end has the supplemental static cr to support the Cams and IM, Mathematically you shift where peak torque/power is made by way of the above mentioned parts. Once again I can lay down the dyno's as well as the dynamics equations of the b20 vtecs making top end power quite well beyond 7k...Its just a matter of you asking for it
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