LS Integra vs GTS

1032 Views 22 Replies 9 Participants Last post by ren0, Oct 12, 2006

lVlemphizStylez

Discussion Starter · Oct 10, 2006

Well, the turbo is off the car...After some very very long debating, I decided to pick up an all motor build. Car has never felt so slow, As it stands its just a jdm b18c with ctr cams mated to a b16 tranny (solid mid to low 14 second car). This is basically my engine as it stands minus the turbo. Did a compression test and got good results 250 across the board. Not bad for an engine that saw boost daily over 400 whp at one point. Now I had always wanted to race a GTS in a N/A b series because I hear often how monsterous they are in comparison to a NA b series. I ran into a very nice looking red GTS (one of the few without the hideous factory body kits) at a gas station. We talked for a bit (nice guy) and I asked him what's done to the 2zz, all the bolt ons pretty much and a tune (assuming PFC??). He didnt have any times but I asked him if he wanted to give the teg a go one time. He sees the boost guage and crome running in the car, I assure him its no longer boosted, and he says Ok. We take it to a very deserted , basically boondocks side of town road. He wants a roll (I want a dig). We agree to 3 runs, one dig , one 20 mph roll, and one 60 mph roll. From the dig he jumps out (Ima newb and still think Im driving a boosted car that cant be launched at 6k, so I launch at my usual 3.5k on the road). By 70 I start passing him and put about car and half between me and him by 100. 20 roll was worse by 100 i had a solid 2 cars. 3rd roll was supposed to be 60 to 120, but the guy said good races he didnt care for a third roll. We swapped numbers and I told him to keep in touch because I wanted to invite him to track day in Georgia when we went

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diegoaccord

· #9 · Oct 11, 2006

It's gonna take more than those 2 parts for 200 WHP. One step you can take is a PR3 head, and also you'll need a ITR IM. PCT Pistons, instead of P30. Gonna need bigger cams than S2S1.

Actually I kinda wanna get back into another Honda, but people are expecting me to trade my GT-S for stupid ****, like EG's, D series cars, and LS Tegs. Or B16 car with LS trannies. I did that swap(B16/LStrans) myself, and I will never drive a B series VTEC with an LS tranny again. My coupe ran 15.7 @91, thanks to LS trans.

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diegoaccord

· #11 · Oct 11, 2006

I'm not taking offense. It's not my car/money.

My ideals are different than most. I'd build a B16 over anything else, myself, because of the R/S. I would love to have a 11K RPM NA B16, with 200 WHP in a EJ8 or EM1. With a custom cam that had stock non VTEC lobes. Tune that **** for MPG.

And yes show me the flowbenches. When I put a B16 into my EJ1, I turned down a LSVTEC with a GSR head(Partially since I don't like frankenmotors) in favor of a stock B16, for head abilities, and R/S.

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diegoaccord

· #15 · Oct 11, 2006

dunno where you got the idea the pr3 head walked over the p72...but it was wrong

That's the general consensus. ITR uses PR3, also. Of course factory ported. I wonder why they wouldn't use a ported P72. Oh well.

just put a b20 bottom end on there and it'll be much better

Frankens are ****ty, LSVTEC, or CRVTEC. Number one, the stock piston on each are ****ty for NA. This means you need to take it apart right off the bat. The R/S on B18A/B and B18C aren't that different, BUT non VTEC blocks don't have oil squirters, and other things for the motor to withstand 8000 RPM. Another point, frankens naturally have a lower power peak, with added displacement. Lastly B20 needs sleeved, no matter what.

There is a REASON Honda engineered a whole seperate 1.8 block for VTEC. Today I just turned down a Thunder Gray Metalic DC4, and he will throw in money for me to do LSVTEC. Hell with that, LS block, LS pistons, and LS tranny will result in a 16 second car.

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diegoaccord

· #20 · Oct 12, 2006

lVlemphizStylez said:
The general consesus is also that longer gears are better for boost...but that doesnt make it right...And a nonvtec bottom end can see 8000 rpm with just replacement arp bearings and rod bolts...its been done all too many times...

I know people do it all the time. Even bone stock 100K+ LS bottoms...

But I wouldn't favor one over even a B16.

Not saying the vtec bottom end isnt better equipped from the factory...But to say the nonvtec block cant do it, is false.

Didn't say it CAN'T, said it wasn't as prepped. I know about pushing Honda motors not made to rev past 7200. Before my B16, I had the Z6 from my EJ1 hitting 8500, and up to 9100. It didn't blow up(atleast not from the revs) and it took it for months upon months. Same principle with revving an LS/B20 bottom to 8000. Wasn't made for it, but will do it dutifully when asked, but won't be as smooth as something made for it.

And I cant say I agree about the hybrids making generally less power..Maybe one built poorly, but just this summer we sent out an LS-VTEC that sailed easily to 235 whp all motor. More torque with same rpm will yield higher HP, thats mathematically proven

I didn't say power was decreased, I said PEAK of power. As in peak RPM that max HP is made. Where a stock B16 usually dyno max HP around 7800 (even though Honda spec sheet say 7600) LSVTEC usually makes it max HP around 7300, and B20VT at 7K flat. Displacement shifts the powerband down in the RPM range. what you get in torque, you lose top end. You can never have your cake and eat it...TQ or max RPM...

I like making power as high as possible, and I will sacrifice whatever torque to keep my high RPM equipped block, R/S, and making max power as high as possible.

my friends LS teg ran a [email protected] last friday with just a catback and a swisscheese stock intake box with no filter.... sounds like a low 15 sec car to me

I need more info on that LS. LS's run 16's, right where EG and EK Civic EX coupes run. AFAIK, GSR stock are 15.7-15.2 dep on driver. And as far as that Teg, LS pistons in LSVTEC makes horseass for power, lower than stock B16 HP, and then theres the problem of the tranny. A full LS motor is matched to that tranny, but after you swap that VTEC head, it's now a peaky motor, and NEEDS B16 gearing. I already had a B16 with an LS tranny...I raced this B16/B16 trans hatch with my stock D16, and kept up partway through 2nd. I raced this hatch after that swap, and you'd think I still had my D16.

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