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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
2zz nitrous set-up awnsers

Ok I'm tired of receiving PMs about nitrous set-up. I'll make a write up with digital image and main diagram. I'll update when I'll be done with pics and diagram.

Fisrt read and understand :

2zz engine pistons will break at 100hp+ shot
2zz engine is safe with 50hp all stock
1zz engine is safe with 40hp all stock

Engage nitrous in the top powerband on the shift gates only (window switch). This is to have the least nitrous volume per stroke, you don't want to hit 50hp shot at 3000rpm, this means each stroke you are eating the same amount as 100hp shot at 6000rpm, this will create enourmous amount of cylinder pressure, then heat, then knocking. Always remember nitrous does not produce a progressive hp dyno curve it's linear, unlike turbo. Amateur 'tuners' thinks if a turbo can pressurize 5 psi from 3k to 8k, then nitrous is the same, 50 shot 3k to 8k, math error, big one. When you put 5 psi you are adding 30% power to the curve at the rpm point, actually you are adding roughly 20hp. Nitrous is a instant hp gain not a multiplicator, it's +50hp everywhere in the rpm window. So you don't need nitrous at 3k, you need it high, nitrous is only for drag racing application, ask yourself 'when do I shift in drag racing?' awnser : at the highest optimize gates (6200 to 7800 to 8200) So we will engage nitrous in this band but put it a bit lower becuz we don't want to go in the redline it's useless, you only gain .1 or .2 with the 1-2 shift, buit with nitrous there is too many chance to hit the rev cutoff (lean). Stick with those windows , they are proven to be extremely secure :

00-01 2zzge ecu rpm window is 5800 to 7800
02+ 2zzge ecu rpm window is 5800 to 7600

For the installation you will require these parts :
I stick with NX becuz I never add problems with those and my uncle runs a nitrous shop only providing NX parts!

NX wet kit for EFI with one nozzle and a 10lbs bottle.
NX digital TPS switch, not a mecanical one like provided in the kit. (use Dynotune TPS swith for 1/2 price! same part no-name)
Jets : 35/20 for 50 shot (provided in the kit)
Dynotune Heater element (1/2 price, same part!)
MSD digital window switch.
2 switches (on-off)
8 ft of snake wire, 8 wires in, 12 to 16 gauge wire
many electric connectors and lots of shrinks cables

The only things you want to have different then stock is oil and fuel, get 94 octane fuel and make sure you run full synthetic oil 5w50 or 5w40 or 10w50 or 10w40, never under 40 and always good quality (motul or mobil)

If you want to hit 60hp or even 75hp with a 2zz, fallow this, I ran this set-up for meaby 200 1/4 mile runs without any troubles :

1. You need to maximize exhaust exit to get the max nitrous power, think like if you add a turbo, so bigger exit = better. I use WR header modifed 2.5 in collector and Kazuma exhaust 2.5 out. Of course catless and no muffler. Yes it's the loudest set-up, but I ran only 1500 miles in 3 years... for those you are on a daily drive set-up choose something else.

2. We will now remove 100lbs from your car to lower the engine load on the low gears. Remove AC compressor (change strap) , AC condensator, pipes, remove spare tire and tools, remove passenger seat (40lbs alone!) remove rear spoiler, rear wiper, engine plastics, plastics under too. Great, that's a easy .2 gain with no $ invested!
2. a) Want to save a extra 100lbs?, easy, swap those heavy mags for 15'' lighweight type (under 10lbs each) and put Toyo T1R 205/55R15 or 215/50R15. I suggest using 205/50R15 for shorter gearing. Toyos T1R are the lightest street tires available, only 18-19lbs for 205/50R15. so that's a combo of 28lbs (45lbs stock). 17lbs*4= 68lbs saved! Other gains are fidenza flywheel, driver seat (get some cheap fiberglass ones used in track racing, very stiff, very uncomfortable, but very light (10lbs), also use a lawnmower battery (300amps), that's only 15lbs compared to 40lbs stock! They last all year long, I done it, they are able to start the car at -5C. So that's good for a total of another easy 100lbs! good job, you just shaved 0.4 on your 1/4 mile.

Less weight = less engine load = you can use nitrous longer without heat problems.

3. You need 94 octane fuel for less knocking chance. Empty that gas tank, just unbolt the plastic filler and jack the car on the passenger side, now fill it with 94 octane. don't make a 91-94 mix with a heavy shot, only 94 pure.

4. Install a low temp thermostat, go to napa order a 160F or a 170F thermostat, easy to install, just a 10mm wrench under the alternator, go slowly and you will get it without having to remove the alternator!

5. Install +1 colder plugs, NGK copper, never platinium, some say iridium is ok, but I never tried.

Here's the electric diagram :
DIAGRAM
Here's my celica set-up :
PIC inside
PIC engine

I'll update tomorow with the pics and electric diagram

good luck, have fun and race the track not the roads.
 

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very good info
 

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How did you come up with your "Safe" shot numbers?

Why do you think a TPS is so much better than a mechanical WOT switch?
 

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Did you happen to read that his uncle runs a nitrous shop? :gap:

I've heard the same thing about TPS as well. It's all over my friend's honda forums too....
 

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youngxlos said:
would 100 shot be ok with mahel 12:3.1?
I've done some homework on this buddy and it looks like we're gonna have to have a seperate fuel tank with very high octane gas inside for a heavy shot like that on 12.3's...personally I'm going to stick with 60 or so shot and call it a day.

P.S. the extra compression will make more efficient use of the nitrous anyway, so a 60shot might be like a 70-ish shot on 11.5, if you get me...?
 

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v3bahumut said:
How did you come up with your "Safe" shot numbers?

Why do you think a TPS is so much better than a mechanical WOT switch?
Seems like those are the tried and tested 'safe' numbers dude ;) I fully agree with him btw :)

I can't really comment on the TPS switch one...I think that may only apply to drive by wire applications...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
v3bahumut said:
How did you come up with your "Safe" shot numbers?
Why do you think a TPS is so much better than a mechanical WOT switch?
cummon sense engine pressure math law : it's displacement in liter X times 1000rpm in the shift gates X (safe shot) = max safe shot. So for every 1 liter of displacement at every 1000rpm you can shoot safe shot (10 hp for 1 cylinder,5hp for 4 cyl, 4hp for 6, 3hp for 8)

1.8L X ((7800+5800)/2/1000) X 5 shot = 61 hp shot.

considering we have 11.5 cr that can dramaticly increase cylinder pressure and knocking with stock ecu, we will use 50 shot. it's not conservative, it's fair, 30-40 hp would be conservative.

for the digital tps switch : simple, mecanical parts fails more then digital parts. also they are much easier to install
 

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Discussion Starter #10
youngxlos said:
would 100 shot be ok with mahel 12:3.1?
some one ask me this last week or something like that, I told him something like this :

yes the first thing that will break in the 2zz with nitrous will be pistons (exeption to bad installs or dumb 6th gear pulls) I would say forged piston is a good idea, but not at 12.3, this would add even more cylinder pressure and you would have to retard timing so much that your na power band would be crap. better use 10/1 or around that, you will loose some na power, but meaby 10 hp, not more. nitrous will be safe at 100 shot, even meaby 125 with required timing. When you are facing a heavy shot, it's much better to run 2 ignition runs, one for na and one that switches on when nitrous is pulled in armed position. use a wideband to monitor mix and never go higher then 11/1, MAX 12/1, remember that you can go at 10/1 without washing the oil. you will loose hps with that rich mix but you will lower heat with extra fuel, thus lowring knocking chance, thus adding nitrous without troubles. I can remember at school, I was studiing dodge stealth TT engine system, it was running something like 10/1 at more then 4000rpm and high load. By doing so, it was losing hps, but it was much cooler, thus much safer.

Always keep your system safe. don't try adding 10hp just for numbers by removing timing or leaning out like 90% of no school tuners are doing. They are just putting your engine in it's max limit all the time, one day or another it will break.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Celicasaur said:
I've done some homework on this buddy and it looks like we're gonna have to have a seperate fuel tank with very high octane gas inside for a heavy shot like that on 12.3's...personally I'm going to stick with 60 or so shot and call it a day.

P.S. the extra compression will make more efficient use of the nitrous anyway, so a 60shot might be like a 70-ish shot on 11.5, if you get me...?
You could run it with PFC and required ignition and fuel mapping, start like this :

go on a dyno
empty tank and run 100 octane fuel only, no mix.
start with 75 shot
monitor knocking will spaying
timing -5, then -3, the -2. in the powerband of nitrous and higher (safe)
check plugs after each run for heat band and heat problems.
monitor af and add fuel with injectors fuel injectors +10%...then lower if no heat present (impossible!) be carefull not to add to much fuel, it will wash oil, increase wear and increase cylinder pressure at a certain point.
start again with 100 shot, you will have guidelines with your 75 shot tuning.

remeber 100 shot is getting your engine to puch almost 200hp per liter. This means it won't last 300 000km, you will have to change oil and plugs very often and the bearings much earlier too.

that said, good luck!
 

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Another vote for sticky.
 

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b18b1tranny said:
You could run it with PFC and required ignition and fuel mapping, start like this :

go on a dyno
empty tank and run 100 octane fuel only, no mix.
start with 75 shot
monitor knocking will spaying
timing -5, then -3, the -2. in the powerband of nitrous and higher (safe)
check plugs after each run for heat band and heat problems.
monitor af and add fuel with injectors fuel injectors +10%...then lower if no heat present (impossible!) be carefull not to add to much fuel, it will wash oil, increase wear and increase cylinder pressure at a certain point.
start again with 100 shot, you will have guidelines with your 75 shot tuning.

remeber 100 shot is getting your engine to puch almost 200hp per liter. This means it won't last 300 000km, you will have to change oil and plugs very often and the bearings much earlier too.

that said, good luck!
Top advice there my friend.

What I will do to start off would be to try the smallest amount on 98 octane gas and build my way up until tweeks to timing need to be made...when I'm at that point, it will be a case of deciding where I'm happy at and if I really need more power, I'll just add a seperate fuel tank with very very high octane gas for nitrous use only.

Mind you, this is still light years away...I need my engine assembled first and then PFC tuned and then I need to play with it :gap:
 

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pics then sticky :p/// want to see switch and maybe even map pics
 

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ive got my window switch set to start in 3rd at 6300 and stop at 7800. should be ok right? goin to be the first run with it. seems like a short rpm range. should i spray 2nd too?
 

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luckyblack00 said:
ive got my window switch set to start in 3rd at 6300 and stop at 7800. should be ok right? goin to be the first run with it. seems like a short rpm range. should i spray 2nd too?
It's not so much the gears, it's more to do with the revs. You don't want to spray below 4k as the earliest possible point, but in your case, even 6k would be fine.
 

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i land lift between every gear so i was thinking 6300, which is what ill be at from the 1to2 shift. might try just 3rdgear run first then 2nd and 3rd gears after i check the plugs for detonation. guy that filled up my bottle today was like u sure you want this bc its a special "race blend" nitrous. i looked at him dumb and was like . yea, ill take it.
 

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ok guys i highly recommend that this thread is made a sticky .....

because i am continuing to read up on this topic i also found these useful .... although they are specific to the kit they sell i found the video and the instruction pdf's answered a lot of my questions and also being able to see in the video how the whole kit came together explained how a lot of things worked.

http://www.nitrousdirect.com/nitrous-instructions.html

i still however have a question regarding what was mentioned regarding what rpm's u should allow the system to spray.

I may be missing something/not understanding something or not reading something properly but from the video and the explanation above how do u limit the kit so that it will only spray between the 5800-7800 window ? from the video and the pdf's and all the topics and threads ive read they mention a switch which will cause for the system to only arm when the car is at WOT .... however u can obviously be at WOT at 3k rpms ..... does that then not spray the nitrous into the system ?

sorry if this is such a noob question but i just cant seem to place and it isnt exactly spelt out anywhere how the rev window for the nitrous spray is controlled ? can it even be automatic or is it a manual thing thats at the drivers discretion ? if that is the case can it be automated to avoid any accidental presses of the switch/button ?

thanks guys.
 
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