Has anyone tried this? Wonder if it is as affective as a LSD?
http://www.phantomgrip.com/product_lists.php?make=Toyota
http://www.phantomgrip.com/product_lists.php?make=Toyota
Phantom grip LSD conversion
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1,950 Posts
it's junk. plain and simple.
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171 Posts
I've heard the it's junk opinion a lot 
.
http://cscc.speedracer.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=284
Check out the bottom 3 posts. You will see people arguing that it isn't bad either. I know one Spyderchatter has it on his vehicle.
.http://cscc.speedracer.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=284
Check out the bottom 3 posts. You will see people arguing that it isn't bad either. I know one Spyderchatter has it on his vehicle.
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28,865 Posts
I hear it also wears out after a rather short while, so the more you race, the faster it''ll wear. Not a part you'd want to replace every few months.
How could it really damage our cars, they only have a 133 ft lbs, of torque. What would get damaged, the spider gears? I have thought of this very topic often as a cost effective way to purchasing a LSD. Phantom grip use their product in ther drag car with several hundred ft. lbs. of torque. I am not totally sold on it but, I have seen it used on Turner Transformation, now there has never been any long term updates on the cars they use this o so, like I said I am still unsure.
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12,350 Posts
Drags cars can replace parts even from run to run on the same DAY.
I have a fair amount of experience with running a Phantom Grip and in dealing with John and Janice there, really great people by the way.
I have read alot of negative posts but to be honest, none here but will check other sorces, that actually used one and complained about it, just a few second or third party complaints and the rest with no merit in the least.
Installing the unit improperly, though simple it still needs to be set up properly, may be the cause of these supposed failures. And, anything you race is going to be prone to not lasting a real long time as it is, including on or off the track. We already know the trannies are weak in these cars(Matrix, Vibe, Celica, etc)
Here is my experience with the unit I had and with the company.
-There was no available LSD I could purchase for my car that was becoming very difficult to drive out of corners with 8 PSI of boost, even with 235/40/17 R compound tires, massive wheelspin. I was finishing way back in the class, as many as 20 cars on some days in a very very quick class.
-This was running in So California SCCA Street Mod class autocrosses, many courses were very fast and long, some short with very tight corners, most quite challenging.
-I called PG and they offered to not only build a unit but needed a differential to do so, would do it right away and send it right back. Less than a week after shipping it to them across the country I recieved it, installed it and went back out. Now I was finishing upper midpack or better with just that change, once I learned how to use it over the next couple of events I placed fourth, very satisfying indeed, running against AWDs, M3's with many mods and sticky tires, not the best place to campain a station wagon(Matrix
-I tired alot of mods but still had too much wheel spin, more so when I ran 12 PSI which of course is much more fun. I called and talked to John, they did not realize the power I had(over 200 WHP and torque at 8PSI) when he set it up for me. So, he offered that if I shipped it back he would do a one day turnaround and set it up to race specs, to handle at least 300ft lbs. I took the car apart and had it back together in time for the very next weekend event.
-With no other mods I placed 1/00th of a second out of second place and did not even make any really clean runs, the car was so much faster and this was on a very very fast 80 second course and running 12 PSI which was over 250WHP and 230 torque. I had very little wheel spin but very quick acceleration. I beat every car on street tires including a Z06 and an NSZ as well as a Lotus Super 7(one of the really good clones). The car that placed first in my class always was in first, beat me by 1.5 seconds but he is an 8 time national champ with a very very well sorted M3 and one of the best drivers I have ever seen. I was well into 3rd gear twice on the course if that gives you any idea of how fast my car was, this is a parking lot. And there were some tight corners which would of killed my time if I could not put down some decent power.
-I ran Redline oil, never found a bit of wear indication and I put 19k hard miles on the car, drag races, autocrosses and what little time I spent on the road, I ran the car exceptionally hard.
-What I really liked about the PG was I never felt its presence, never any wheel hop, zero torque steer, just pulled really hard out of the turns and very very easy to drive. There is no way in the world I could of been so fast in that car without a properly working LSD.
I have nothing but good things to say about my experiences with PG gear or the company. I am not a mechanic nor full time or pro racer. I have done all my own work on imports for over 30 years, lowered my first 510 in 1972
Of course there could be others with problems, happens to all manfs and much of the time it is from improper install or abuse.
Since nobody has an off the shelf LSD for my Tacoma(I heard of one but also not that great and this is from a die hard mini trucker who knows more than at least the 10 best mechanics I have ever met), I am having PG build me a custom unit. I recently removed the TuRD SC from the truck and will later build a Turbo with my son when he takes the truck over and am very confident it will work just fine
But, spend your money where you choose and get on with having fun with your cars
Rick
P.S. Not to many, if any, drag race teams can change out a tranny in a few minutes time with FWD, mayby fairly quick but they are a pain to remove as anyone having done so will testify to.
P.S. to set the record straight, Mechtech built my original turbo system as a prototype for kits but it just did not work out for us. I went my seperate way and built a non kit version with many mods and fully ported from the intake to the exhaust tip, built every part except the manifold in my garage with my son, our first real welding project.
Good Day!
I have read alot of negative posts but to be honest, none here but will check other sorces, that actually used one and complained about it, just a few second or third party complaints and the rest with no merit in the least.
Installing the unit improperly, though simple it still needs to be set up properly, may be the cause of these supposed failures. And, anything you race is going to be prone to not lasting a real long time as it is, including on or off the track. We already know the trannies are weak in these cars(Matrix, Vibe, Celica, etc)
Here is my experience with the unit I had and with the company.
-There was no available LSD I could purchase for my car that was becoming very difficult to drive out of corners with 8 PSI of boost, even with 235/40/17 R compound tires, massive wheelspin. I was finishing way back in the class, as many as 20 cars on some days in a very very quick class.
-This was running in So California SCCA Street Mod class autocrosses, many courses were very fast and long, some short with very tight corners, most quite challenging.
-I called PG and they offered to not only build a unit but needed a differential to do so, would do it right away and send it right back. Less than a week after shipping it to them across the country I recieved it, installed it and went back out. Now I was finishing upper midpack or better with just that change, once I learned how to use it over the next couple of events I placed fourth, very satisfying indeed, running against AWDs, M3's with many mods and sticky tires, not the best place to campain a station wagon(Matrix
-I tired alot of mods but still had too much wheel spin, more so when I ran 12 PSI which of course is much more fun. I called and talked to John, they did not realize the power I had(over 200 WHP and torque at 8PSI) when he set it up for me. So, he offered that if I shipped it back he would do a one day turnaround and set it up to race specs, to handle at least 300ft lbs. I took the car apart and had it back together in time for the very next weekend event.
-With no other mods I placed 1/00th of a second out of second place and did not even make any really clean runs, the car was so much faster and this was on a very very fast 80 second course and running 12 PSI which was over 250WHP and 230 torque. I had very little wheel spin but very quick acceleration. I beat every car on street tires including a Z06 and an NSZ as well as a Lotus Super 7(one of the really good clones). The car that placed first in my class always was in first, beat me by 1.5 seconds but he is an 8 time national champ with a very very well sorted M3 and one of the best drivers I have ever seen. I was well into 3rd gear twice on the course if that gives you any idea of how fast my car was, this is a parking lot. And there were some tight corners which would of killed my time if I could not put down some decent power.
-I ran Redline oil, never found a bit of wear indication and I put 19k hard miles on the car, drag races, autocrosses and what little time I spent on the road, I ran the car exceptionally hard.
-What I really liked about the PG was I never felt its presence, never any wheel hop, zero torque steer, just pulled really hard out of the turns and very very easy to drive. There is no way in the world I could of been so fast in that car without a properly working LSD.
I have nothing but good things to say about my experiences with PG gear or the company. I am not a mechanic nor full time or pro racer. I have done all my own work on imports for over 30 years, lowered my first 510 in 1972
Of course there could be others with problems, happens to all manfs and much of the time it is from improper install or abuse.
Since nobody has an off the shelf LSD for my Tacoma(I heard of one but also not that great and this is from a die hard mini trucker who knows more than at least the 10 best mechanics I have ever met), I am having PG build me a custom unit. I recently removed the TuRD SC from the truck and will later build a Turbo with my son when he takes the truck over and am very confident it will work just fine
But, spend your money where you choose and get on with having fun with your cars
Rick
P.S. Not to many, if any, drag race teams can change out a tranny in a few minutes time with FWD, mayby fairly quick but they are a pain to remove as anyone having done so will testify to.
P.S. to set the record straight, Mechtech built my original turbo system as a prototype for kits but it just did not work out for us. I went my seperate way and built a non kit version with many mods and fully ported from the intake to the exhaust tip, built every part except the manifold in my garage with my son, our first real welding project.
Good Day!
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285 Posts
I heard that same feedback before and I'm not nocking you raamaudio. I don't have a problem w/Phatom Grip. Just that it's a majority everywhere says that it's crap. I believe most of that is rumors and heresay. I also believe that your Phantom Grip is not as reliable or true as a real LSD. Meaning that it will be more to my liking to invest in a real LSD helical or clutch type than scrimp on the costs if interested in replacing the open differential in the first place. I figure, do it right first and don't worry about it later. The install would be enough to worry about for me and a part that isn't fully trusted would tell me forget it. Give me Cusco, Kazz, Quaife, or TRD any time over that. I'll spend the money and be happy about knowing the part will work to my expectations.
Heph,
I fully understand and I am not saying they make a perfect product BUT, what I am saying is I do not see a majority of experienced actual users, mechanics, etc, etc, saying much of anything, there area alot that love it, maybe they do not post here. The majority I see here are doing nothing much more than spreading rumors, no offense meant to anybody for voicing their opinions, beliefs, etc but we cannot make rational judgments based on hearsay.
Originally I was going to get a Quaife myself but they only produced I believe 10 originally, sales were slow so they did not make anymore, what they told me directly over the phone. So, I had to find something and PG was the only one to offer to help me out and they went out of their way to do so, twice. As stated
I abused the hell out of my car with wide race compound tires and alot of HP and Torque. I only put around 10,000 miles on it, all very abusively on high speed autocross courses and drag races, rarely driven on the streets and even then worked it over a bit
I dismanteled the whole tranny just before selling it and inspected everthing and it looked practically brand new. From this actual very successfull hands on experience and talking them them directly at PG, where they get very few complaints by the way, I believe there are a few failures and alot of gosip about it.
I also wonder if some of the failures are not due to improper installation, why I never let others do such work on my car, nobody cares about it as much as I do and I take whatever time I need to put things together right.
One thing I did not check on, should of, was what lube was being used with any units that failed or caused a failure, I ran Redline MT90 just fine.
I may be wrong of course and would admit it if shown by facts and direct testimony, as I am providing here, if indeed they are not a good product. So far a few problems and alot of does not prove anything to me
OK, please understand I am not fighting with you or anyone and do not mean to put anybody down in anyway. I understand being warry of any issues with any gear, especially one that is such a pain to deal with if there is a problem.
Have a great day!
Rick
I fully understand and I am not saying they make a perfect product
BUT, what I am saying is I do not see a majority of experienced actual users, mechanics, etc, etc, saying much of anything, there area alot that love it, maybe they do not post here. The majority I see here are doing nothing much more than spreading rumors, no offense meant to anybody for voicing their opinions, beliefs, etc but we cannot make rational judgments based on hearsay. Originally I was going to get a Quaife myself but they only produced I believe 10 originally, sales were slow so they did not make anymore, what they told me directly over the phone. So, I had to find something and PG was the only one to offer to help me out and they went out of their way to do so, twice. As stated
I abused the hell out of my car with wide race compound tires and alot of HP and Torque. I only put around 10,000 miles on it, all very abusively on high speed autocross courses and drag races, rarely driven on the streets and even then worked it over a bit
I dismanteled the whole tranny just before selling it and inspected everthing and it looked practically brand new. From this actual very successfull hands on experience and talking them them directly at PG, where they get very few complaints by the way, I believe there are a few failures and alot of gosip about it.
I also wonder if some of the failures are not due to improper installation, why I never let others do such work on my car, nobody cares about it as much as I do and I take whatever time I need to put things together right.
One thing I did not check on, should of, was what lube was being used with any units that failed or caused a failure, I ran Redline MT90 just fine.
I may be wrong of course and would admit it if shown by facts and direct testimony, as I am providing here, if indeed they are not a good product. So far a few problems and alot of does not prove anything to me
OK, please understand I am not fighting with you or anyone and do not mean to put anybody down in anyway. I understand being warry of any issues with any gear, especially one that is such a pain to deal with if there is a problem.
Have a great day!
Rick
Exactly... it's better than no LSD...raamaudio said:
But if you have the option of a real aftermarket LSD, there's just no comparison.
Unless you do the work yourself, do you know the cost of the labor involved in swapping the differential on the Celica? It cost as much as the LSD... why pay that to install just a PG? Makes no sense.
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