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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
PFC and Hydra please, it looks like none of JesseIL's or anyones are working anymore and it would be nice to have a repository again.
 

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well, in the other tread (basic vd advanced), i posted this map:
Its the map that comes with the Apexi turbo kit incl Power FC. It has firmware 4.12 and motor platform 1zz-fet. The most Power fc have 3.20 (and mine 3.14) and platform 1zz-fe.



I think its a strange map To much advanced at 3200 rpm... should be around 2600 rpm

or a very late spooling turbo
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks. It looks completely different from the Mwr map?

I can't find any documentation that states (this is what I'm ultimately trying to figure out) what the Apex numbers represent, for example if 0 was retard and 60 was full advance ... why would they have so much advance at idle? And possibly create an overlap situation at idle?


well, in the other tread (basic vd advanced), i posted this map:
Its the map that comes with the Apexi turbo kit incl Power FC. It has firmware 4.12 and motor platform 1zz-fet. The most Power fc have 3.20 (and mine 3.14) and platform 1zz-fe.



I think its a strange map To much advanced at 3200 rpm... should be around 2600 rpm

or a very late spooling turbo
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
A few other pieces of information

mwr said:
N04 35
N05 20
N06 30
N07 25
N08 25
N09 40
N10 45
N11 45
N12 25
N13 5
N14 15
N15 30
N16 36
N17 41
N18 46
goatofrafin said:
3000 - 24
3300 - 24
3500 - 34
3700 - 38
3800 - 38
4500 - 24
4800 - 24
5700 - 13
6250 - 13
6300 - 43
6500 - 43
6600 - 40
7000 - 40
7800 - 26
rev lim - 26






And with a Corolla Xrs





 

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Well its the other way around. 50 or higher is Max retard (no valve overlap) 0 is Max advanced (Max valve overlap). It is not degrees. Its a pfc value.

Eh you have to give more info What the figures present. Normaly its load vs rpm
 

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Bass I'm curious.

What's your max load on the small cam and also on the big cam? And crucially, what size intake/maf housing diameter are you using?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It's not degrees then ... and no one has mapped it out?

I would imagine this would not be too hard with an oscope?

Well its the other way around. 50 or higher is Max retard (no valve overlap) 0 is Max advanced (Max valve overlap). It is not degrees. Its a pfc value.

Eh you have to give more info What the figures present. Normaly its load vs rpm
 

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You're not getting it.

First, you need to understand the actual range of VVT.

Second, you need to understand that it's different for everyone's individual build.

Third, you need to understand that those that tune professionally aren't gonna give away the info for free.

Fourth - or maybe it should have been first - USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I understand the VVT system, better than you I'm sure, I built my own controller that was a standalone VVT controller by writing assembly code to a uC and designing a PCB for it, so stand down dickhead. You've made some ridiculous and incorrect assumptions.

For the rest of the forum, I'd like to either see screen caps of a consensus of maps so I can try to infer what Apexi's arbitrary numbers represent, or get an actual explanation. It appears that no one actually knows what the numbers symbolize, or they are keeping it to themselves, so I may just oscope it on my Dynojet in my home garage, make changes, calculate the difference of the cam angle via the scope and then chart it and see if an algorithm can't be figured out. There is no reason to have it shrouded in mystery like this, which was obvious from searching before I made this post.




You're not getting it.

First, you need to understand the actual range of VVT.

Second, you need to understand that it's different for everyone's individual build.

Third, you need to understand that those that tune professionally aren't gonna give away the info for free.

Fourth - or maybe it should have been first - USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION.
 

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I understand the VVT system, better than you I'm sure
Then you tell us, boss.

I built my own controller that was a standalone VVT controller by writing assembly code to a uC and designing a PCB for it
Clearly your programming style doesn't include range limit checks.

You've made some ridiculous and incorrect assumptions.
Nope. Found the answer to the question you eventually asked - after pleading with everyone all over the board for maps - within 30 seconds.

so stand down dickhead
You kiss your mother with that mouth? What, are you twelve?

We clearly don't meet your narrow, limited thinking of how this forum is constructed or operates. Nor do you have any understanding of appropriate levels of decorum. Good luck here and good luck with life. Done with you.
 

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gte, to clarify - are you looking for simply the vvt range and what the numbers represent in terms of actual cam angle movement?

I'm confused because I don't see how seeing other vvt maps will help... :confused: because they will all have the same approximate shape to them.

In terms of actual movement, the max advance/retard that actually has an effect on airflow is ~ 10 - 50.

Oddly enough I once read on a tech resource that the vvt range was around 50 degree's, so it may stand to reason that each integer on the pfc/ecu is representative of each degree...? :shrugs: but then again, 50 degrees does sound like a lot so I dunno.

I guess manually, you could open a sprocket and measure the degrees of movement allowed :shrugs: apart from that one resource (I'll have to google for it) i've never seen anybody else write what the actual figures represent.

I miss Jesse. He was cool.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Way to walk away like a coward when you are wrong.

A "range check" is not necessary, it can swing 43 degrees ... 33 of that before TDC and 10 of it after. Real time calculation based on the -2 of the crank trigger and the -1 of the cam trigger was what I monitored and based my 300hz 0 to 10v square wave output signal off of, 25% duty retards it, 50% holds and 75% advances it. Each tooth on the crank was 10 degrees apart, each tooth on the cam was 90 degrees apart. As you can see, because it is a variable reluctance sensor, the signal output is a sign wave.



BUT I didn't ask how the system worked, I asked how the arbitrary numbers of the PFC correspond to mechanical degrees. If no one knows, that's fine, I will try to figure it out for myself, but the appropriate response would be "no one knows, not "you aren't getting it" or "you need to understand the range" or "everyone's car is different" or "search" ... what a waste of bandwidth your post was. By the way, I've searched and seen different responses.

If you can find some humility and check your critical words, I will explain it to you in more detail if you would like.




Then you tell us, boss.



Clearly your programming style doesn't include range limit checks.



Nope. Found the answer to the question you eventually asked - after pleading with everyone all over the board for maps - within 30 seconds.



You kiss your mother with that mouth? What, are you twelve?

We clearly don't meet your narrow, limited thinking of how this forum is constructed or operates. Nor do you have any understanding of appropriate levels of decorum. Good luck here and good luck with life. Done with you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yes, that is correct, the approximate shape might help infer what the numbers mean, as a starting point of sorts. It sounds like I may have to just put the car on my dyno with a scope and then enter in a single value for all cells and watch what happens on the scope, screen cap it and calculate the degree offset based on rpm and milliseconds. Maybe I can map it out doing that?

Jesse did seem cool from reading his posts, what happened to him?


gte, to clarify - are you looking for simply the vvt range and what the numbers represent in terms of actual cam angle movement?

I'm confused because I don't see how seeing other vvt maps will help... :confused: because they will all have the same approximate shape to them.

In terms of actual movement, the max advance/retard that actually has an effect on airflow is ~ 10 - 50.

Oddly enough I once read on a tech resource that the vvt range was around 50 degree's, so it may stand to reason that each integer on the pfc/ecu is representative of each degree...? :shrugs: but then again, 50 degrees does sound like a lot so I dunno.

I guess manually, you could open a sprocket and measure the degrees of movement allowed :shrugs: apart from that one resource (I'll have to google for it) i've never seen anybody else write what the actual figures represent.

I miss Jesse. He was cool.
 

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Jesse did seem cool from reading his posts, what happened to him?
He was a very helpful member of the community who did a lot. If I recall correctly I think he moved on to a Subaru Legacy after selling his turbo Celica.
 

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Oh really? ^^^ I thought he was meant to get a 370Z?

Either way, he was an OG of the 7th gen and his contribution to nc.org is priceless - particularly his pfc tuning explanation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks Baas.

Why doesn't someone go ask Jesse to make a cameo in this thread? I'd like to personally thank him for the informative posts that made my PFC learning curve much easier, about a month and a half to very solid numbers for a stock compression 2zz (275 fwhp) .

I think he would really like to read the information in this thread also ;)

http://corolla9.com/index.php?/topic/3472-pfc-vvt-arbitrary-numbers-unmasked/
 

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I highly doubt he checks this site at all anymore, his last post was in 2011 to sell his tuning laptop. I've personally met him one time when he was building youngxlos 2zz head. Extremely knowledgeable guy but I would guess he would be done with the 2zzge. On another note you have pm.
 

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As you can see from this graph:



It seems correct that on the low cam there is no diference between 0 or 10 vvt value

But in the other hand there is a diference from 0 to 10 on the vvt setting once on the big cam, in power at least

 
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