NewCelica.org Forum banner

21 - 36 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I understood your context - no worries. Thanks for the photos. I got some good weather yesterday and went at it offsite. I still could not find the pieces that you highlighted in the photos, and did not have the torx bits with me to remove the glass.

But using GSBoek's suggestion I could see where the hose attachments were located in relation to the driver's side seatbelt, and felt the leak was more likely to be this:
. I had already done the fix outlined in the video, but I did not completely fill the channel with calk ; only at the ends.

So I decided to go ahead and pull the headliner. That was an adventure but I've done worse; ( I expect reinstalling it will be the real adventure - ha). With the headliner out, I can see that all of the hoses are securely attached to the nipples. We should be having some heavy rain this week, so I'll crawl around in there and try to pinpoint the leak. I'll post the final resolution when I get it all done.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions and photos, etc. !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Heya, I'm glad I'm not the only one with a leaky sunroof!

I've gone and pulled my headline slightly, and confirmed that there is a leak in the drip channel somewhere. I'm unconvinced that it's simply the fault of the glass/plastic panel seal, because when I poured water directly into the RH channel, water came out from around the drip channel/aluminum frame. Esentially, none of the water was actually going down the pipe!

the pipes themselves are clear, and I used a can of air to give the drip-channel plastic pipe a bit of a blast. air came out the other side, so I am also unsure if there is a blockage

I will be removing my panel this wednesday but I expect to have to remove my entire sunroof assembly to actually see what's wrong. visibility in that particular part of the drip channel is very poor.

Are there any sort of seals that can perish in the drip channel itself? Water was quite literally coming out of everywhere except the pipe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
@mtndriver sounds good, if it ends up not raining just hit it with a garden hose on medium. The two gutter rails on the top of the roof do have issues with the old body sealant cracking and the rear area of it was causing leaking that went down the little backseat quarter window on mine before I replaced the body sealant. My leak was pretty close to the seatbelt so maybe it could be the gutter, will be easy to spot with the headliner out and the trim piece around that quarter window.

@Robeartato no seals inside the moonroof frame assembly. The only thing I can think of is either debris or rust flakes blocking parts of the channel OR the black plastic drip trays may have a crack some how? Or the spring clamp not sealing the tube onto the nipple as well or maybe a split in the hose etc.

I did remove my entire moonroof frame assembly from the car, complete tear down of the frame, relubricated everything, reinstalled into car. Was a single man job except for the end when I had my GF hold the frame up so I could bolt on a couple of the brackets that connect to the interior car body. Highly recommend having a garage, I had mine outside and the project took longer than expected, was a pain keeping the roof covered plus risk of water seeping under clear coat if you have plastic over it a long time. I only had to take it out of the car because the frame was siezed unable to open more than 10%, lubrication & rust debris issue of old lexan moonroof for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
A Crack would be the worst possible outcome for me, simply because of how expensive a replacement can get.

Tomorrow, I'm going to push a wire down the drain (with a disconnected hose) and follow it up with a can of air. Hopefully I'll see an improvement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
@Robeartato A crack in the black plastic pans wouldn't be that big of a deal, could patch it with some epoxy etc for a reliable fix.

I just re-read your post and you said that it overflows out of the drip pan? I mustve initially misread it, overflowing wouldnt be due to a crack. Like you said, pop hoses from the nips, swab inside the nip, reattach, pour water in the pan, verify it goes into the hoses. Maybe the hose fills up and then overflows the pan, indicating the clog is at the other end of the hose where it connects to a rubber boot that leads to the exterior wheel well.

Lemme know if ya need any pics etc. Cheers!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
@BobSaget Well we had solid rain early this morning, so I first popped the back seat, and sure enough, there was a tiny amount of water underneath. It was coming down the side wall and ultimately entering around the top of the back glass area (hatchback glass).

I did the inspection while it was dark - that worked out great because the reflections off of any water droplets really show up nicely if you're using a good light (a bright tactical flashlight in my case).

Small leaks were visible on both driver and passenger side at the top of the rear glass. (see pics). The pictures show the general area on the driver's side, then a close-up in that area, showing the leak.

So when I get a sunny, warm-ish day, I'm going to pop, clean, caulk, and reattach that channel trim, as in the video I referenced earlier. Then do another leak test to confirm, before reinstalling the headliner. I still don't know how the water is getting forward to the driver's seat belt (didn't see any leaks above/around or forward of that area), but the next leak test should verify if I fixed the problem or not.

I also inspected all around the sunroof and hoses and the front area and found no leaks. Additionally, I blew half of the multi-fuse (7.5A) that the dome light uses - must have done that when I pulled the headliner/dome light. No big deal.

Will post again after the work is complete. Thanks again.

54173
54174
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
Yep those rain gutters will crack sealant and leak through around the rear quarter windows in the area you show. Water will ride along the lip of metal edges and end up in places away from the main leak source. A garden hose ontop of a towel/rag and weighted down on the roof to flow on the gutter on low/medium while youre inside the car is the best way to verify this without a helper.

TSR Garage video you linked, he is a great guy and really does things right but body work can be very complicated due to chemistry and all of the products available. If you do choose to just patch over the cracks in the body sealant just do your research, download the products technical data sheet and maybe even contact the company's support line because you want to make 100% sure that whatever you put on the cracks will not outgas anything corrosive while it cures. If you check the comments in that vid I even asked TSR about this a few years ago, heh. Ended up going a different route, wont go too off topic in this thread though.

Also just for completeness, I found an old pic of my moonroof removed that shows one of the drip trays, just in case anyone finds this thread in the future: p.s. notice the rust flakes from the old removed moonroof very close to the drip pans, common culprit of clogs as Boek mentioned:
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
I dug out all of the old bodysealant using a plastic scraper, pick and heat gun. I then cleaned the area with vac, air, and grease&wax remover. Then taped off the two sides of channel, used 3m dynatron auto seam sealer PN 550 in a caulk gun to run a bead down the drip rail + the cracked seamed connected to the drip rail under the rear hatch. Was quite a bit of work, honestly using some kinda product like TSR did may be the way to go because only the rear area on mine was cracked, the rest of the drip rail sealant I removed was still pliable and in good condition. The dynatron pn 550 also requires to be sealed with paint which I did not do, I actually havent reinstalled the black trim piece over it so it has been exposed to UV for a couple years with no cracking or leaks. Proper body work is an art & science, honestly I wouldn't even take my advice on it or do what I did without consulting a pro.

If you use the TSR Garage method as long as your product doesnt offgas corrosives & is easily removable later (in case you want to get it done differently) then I suppose it wouldn't hurt. You could even call 3M Automotive collision repair hotline or email asking if they have any products suggested with the above mentioned properties for patching the cracked sealant without a full rework. I was shocked that they were actually helpful and fast when I consulted them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I dug out all of the old bodysealant using a plastic scraper, pick and heat gun. I then cleaned the area with vac, air, and grease&wax remover. Then taped off the two sides of channel, used 3m dynatron auto seam sealer PN 550 in a caulk gun to run a bead down the drip rail + the cracked seamed connected to the drip rail under the rear hatch. Was quite a bit of work, honestly using some kinda product like TSR did may be the way to go because only the rear area on mine was cracked, the rest of the drip rail sealant I removed was still pliable and in good condition. The dynatron pn 550 also requires to be sealed with paint which I did not do, I actually havent reinstalled the black trim piece over it so it has been exposed to UV for a couple years with no cracking or leaks. Proper body work is an art & science, honestly I wouldn't even take my advice on it or do what I did without consulting a pro.

If you use the TSR Garage method as long as your product doesnt offgas corrosives & is easily removable later (in case you want to get it done differently) then I suppose it wouldn't hurt. You could even call 3M Automotive collision repair hotline or email asking if they have any products suggested with the above mentioned properties for patching the cracked sealant without a full rework. I was shocked that they were actually helpful and fast when I consulted them.
@BobSaget Great info as usual - thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I'll check back in a week but I think I solved my particular issue
As @BobSaget guessed, it was some kind of buildup in the drain. however, unlike in his case where the actual plastic part of the pipe had become clogged, it was the front drain that feeds into the two sides. check post #27, and look to the right of the circled gutter. This points towards the front of the car and feed water to the drains. In my case, I think debris had gotten in there and that was causing water to overflow and appear to be leaking from the rest of the drain.

I've wiped it clean so I will know after some rain if that did it. cheers all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,258 Posts
I'm a little confused about what this cracked seal might be? I get some water dribbles down the r/r glass in a car wash but otherwise no water into the car. I assumed it was a drain tray issue but it sounds like it might not be. Where/what is this seal?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Hi @Bitter . No sure which conversation you are referring to, but the cracks and sealing that I was referring to are best explained in the video I linked in post #21 above.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
@Bitter On the roof are two black trim pieces that cover the drip rails/gutters. At factory they covered the metal seam w/ body sealant and then painted over the sealant to match car color. It seems to be extremely common that the body sealant cracks at the rear of the drip rail, the cracked sealant often travels from the end of the drip rail towards the trunk (visible when rear hatch is opened)

The crack causes water ingress, as it gets worse it will often cause a pool of water under the rear passenger seat. Water in trunk etc. Gets gross fast thanks to the sound dampening material adhesed to body under the seats.

The service manual outlines how to fix this involving epoxy primer, seam sealant, paint and trim adhesive. I regret but I didn't have the cash to buy 2 part epoxy primer and paint so I just used seam sealant.

Attached some pics of mine, the black splotches of color is the trim adhesive, factory applied a dab at front and rear of drip rail to hold down the black rubber trim piece. Needs heat gun to pop off the trim without distortion.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,258 Posts
That's what I thought was being referred to, how reusable is that rubber trim once it's been removed? Was it damaged during removal? My thought would to be to use windshield urethane to re-seal it and since my car is black it would be OK probably, and it's under the trim anyway right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
The trim is a black rubber piece that I think may have a piece of flexible metal strip inside it that allows it to hold its shape. You heat the ends of the strip with a heat gun to losen the adhesive then pull it off, the service manual lists an exact temperature but I forget it off hand, it is in the Body (BO-) section. I used a plastic pick or a pick that is heavily taped etc, it is undamaged when removed this way and reusable. The trim is just to hide the gutter. For the two dabs used to hold down the strip I used 3m black super weatherstrip & gasket adhesive PN 08008 because a toyota (non celica) general bulletin suggested it.

Yeah, the trim piece totally hides the seam, the seam that leads towards the trunk is visible though when the hatch it opened. I edited my last post to include the celica collision repair manual's diagram excerpt that shows the entire length of the seam as it extends into the hatch area.

Lemme know a PN or name for what urethane you end up using, I will probably just do that when I get around to doing my driver side gutter. I assume the urethane is removable later on without causing paint damage?
 
21 - 36 of 36 Posts
Top