NewCelica.org Forum banner

1 - 20 of 109 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After the 120mph performance over the weekend our shop GTS seemed to have a slight stumble at idle. Some diagnosis has revealed a broken ring land on #3. The last run at the track was run at around 415-420hp at the wheels and would have been awfully fast if I hadn't missed 2nd. That's just how it goes.

We've got the engine apart and everything looks great inside. Even revving well over 9k nothing in the timing drive or head looked affected.

#3 broke a couple of ring lands on the intake side. Still ran fine but was low on compression.

I'm not giving up on the stock 2zz just yet. We're installing a stock 05 Matrix XRS engine in the car right now and will continue with the testing.

Based on what I saw inside the engine I think there is more to be had. We will rev higher and boost higher. 450whp or bust (again).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,311 Posts
thats great new's & glad to hear things are optimistic. good luck & keep us posted as you have been. keep up the great work.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
15,564 Posts
Same place Smaay's stock ring lands cracked. You guys probably had some detonation - got any pics?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
It's great what you are doing for the community. Just to see what the engine will hold before breaking is REALLY interesting from this end!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Pulsar1 said:
How are you guys revving over 9k on a stock engine?? I always hear they will bend valves and break oilpump gears. :confused:
i always thought that those kinds of problems were due to high revs and missed shifts. still, if it was my car, i'd probably upgrade my valve springs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,541 Posts
Roxtar said:
i always thought that those kinds of problems were due to high revs and missed shifts. still, if it was my car, i'd probably upgrade my valve springs.

They are but I heard the car starts getting small amounts of valve float at 8600+ and that the oil pump gears go at 9K+. Maybe be they were just theories gathered from misshifts...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
robare99 said:
It's great what you are doing for the community. Just to see what the engine will hold before breaking is REALLY interesting from this end!
:werd: This testing to destruction is fascinating.

I can't help but think that it will hurt your sales of valves, pistons and rods etc if you get a reliable 300+ WHP from a stock engine, or even 400-500WHP from a 20-run-before-going-pop drag racer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Gravel said:
:werd: This testing to destruction is fascinating.

I can't help but think that it will hurt your sales of valves, pistons and rods etc if you get a reliable 300+ WHP from a stock engine, or even 400-500WHP from a 20-run-before-going-pop drag racer.
Although it would seem like that in the short term .... there is no way to know what the long term effect of this is unless MWR keeps the car as is and keeps driving it as hard .... So from that persepective if u are someone who's going to keep the car for a few years these test tell u that yes the engine is strong but it tells u nothing about long term reliability .....

However if ur after long term reliability then it is in ur best interests to fork out and get the parts even if it is just for piece of mind.

Matt good to see where things are going with your testing ... Big thumbs up to MWR for the help they have provided me so far .... ill let you know how things go with my car once its all sorted

cheers
Bill from AUS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,541 Posts
^^^
Its just to see how far they can push the stock engine, and I think they are running a turbo kit they might be releasing in the future but Im not for sure on that one.
 

·
12+ years daily driver
Joined
·
8,599 Posts
Amazing.

I cant believe the power the stock motor is making. Exactley how many spare 2zz's you have laying around the shop, enough to keep doing this routine over and over..:)?

Keep us posted with pics/vids and a release date on that turbo kit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
903 Posts
This is really amazing... I thought the stock rod bearings couldn't take nearly that power level.

Anyone remember what 2zz's have broken from overboosting and how they failed? I know when overrevving the rod bearings and oil pump die.

What is the weakest link for HP and boost at reasonable RPMS on the 2zz?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,732 Posts
what rpm were you shifting at exactly? Well over 9K? That seems a lot! I would believe 9k or even very low 9Ks ( and I would be glad to hear that actually :)) but well over? Please, provide some details :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If we can get tons of power out of these stock engines reliably not only will it help sales of turbos, fuel system parts, etc but it'll also help make the Celica's performance following that much stronger. People will look at the Celica as a serious Integra/RSX fighter and that benefits us all.

I don't know how many engines we'll pop in the name of research. I hope to get just a little bit more power out of this one then drive it in that condition for a while.

Detonation- if there was any it was very light and not detectable. Pistons, head, plugs were all perfect and the PFC detected only normal knock levels. It may have just been too much cylinder pressure.

You will not bend valves at 9k but I suspect that the stock springs are no longer in good control of valve motion. I also suspect the valves may eventually break if run for long periods of time at that speed based on the failures seen by some of our customers who endurance race the 2zzs.

Oil pump failures have been spotty. They usually seem to involve some sort of oil starvation and/or undamped crank pulleys. We're going to do a full dimensional analysis and magnaflux check on the pump from our engine to see how it did.

We were shifting anywhere from 8600-9100 depending on track conditions. Dyno runs were made as high as 9200rpm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,268 Posts
wow this is great work guys..i believe this gives us all hope on the 2zz...keep up the good work!!!
 
1 - 20 of 109 Posts
Top